Home Affairs

Andrew Percy Excerpts

Tuesday 10th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

The hon. Gentleman is right that there has always been an understanding, but the problem is that, sadly, people do not see enough clarity in legislation to give them the confidence that that is the case. Indeed, they sometimes see reports of cases where the opposite has been the case. It is, therefore, important to give greater clarity in the law and that is what the Bill will do.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

I spend a lot of my time as a community first responder with the ambulance service in Yorkshire, and when I turn up at emergencies, I often find that people are unwilling to involve themselves because, although the law may well protect them, they do not feel that it will do so. Therefore, I wholeheartedly welcome the Bill and offer the Home Secretary my experience as an example of why more clarity is needed.

[Mrs May]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend, who has hit the nail on the head. The social action, responsibility and heroism Bill will, I hope, send a very clear message to everyone that they should have the confidence of knowing that they can go to help others and not fear the consequences for themselves.

Although not specifically referenced in the Gracious Speech last week, the Government intend to introduce a draft Bill to modernise the way in which compensation is paid to individuals and businesses that experience loss or damage to property caused by riots. The Riot (Damages) Act 1886 has not been updated since it was introduced. Consequently, it does not properly reflect modern society—for example, it does not cover damage to cars.

The precise detail of the draft Bill will be determined following the public consultation that I launched last week. This will build on the findings of the independent review of the Act, which was published in November 2013 and is part of our substantial work since the riots of August 2011 to ensure that compensation arrangements keep pace with modern life. It is right that we continue to protect vulnerable people and businesses from the financial impact of riots.

This Government can be proud of the reforms and legislation that we have put in place. These Bills will build on that work. They will ensure that we can hunt, prosecute and lock up the criminals behind the appalling crime of modern slavery; that we have a criminal justice system that properly punishes offenders, while being fair to the taxpayer; that we can better disrupt those who support and benefit from all forms of organised crime; and that we continue to encourage good works and good deeds.

On crime and on justice, this Government’s legislative programme is working to ensure a safe and secure Britain in which honest, hard-working people can prosper. I commend it to the House.

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[Andrew Percy]

The shadow Secretary of State came to my constituency recently. She did not give me notice of her visit, but she may have heard from residents in Goole of their concerns about immigration. The visit did no good: the Labour vote completely collapsed in the Euro elections. Will she now take this opportunity to apologise to residents in Goole for what happened in 2007, which led massive numbers of immigrants to come to our town and put huge pressure on schools, housing and our public services?

[Yvette Cooper]

I must tell the hon. Gentleman that, unfortunately, public concern about immigration is much higher now than it was at the time of the general election. I hope that he will apologise to his constituents for backing a net migration target and promising that it would be met by the time of the next general election, but utterly failing to meet it.

The Government are not setting out the practical things that they could do. For example, they could stop agencies recruiting only from abroad, close loopholes in the minimum wage, go much further on unfair zero-hours contracts and make serious exploitation a crime. All those are things that the Government could do.

In response to my hon. Friends’ questions, the Home Secretary commented about the Passport Office, but I must say that her answers were incredibly complacent and simply do not reflect the experience of MPs right across the country. She claimed that all the targets are being met. From what she said, we would think that everything was absolutely fine. Tell that to James Bowness from Cumbria, who nearly missed his chance to qualify for the Commonwealth games because his passport did not arrive in time; pensioner Eileen Shepherd from Darlington, who missed her dream cruise because her passport did not arrive; or the Vernon family from Coventry, who missed their first family holiday abroad. They all applied in time, but the Passport Office let them down.

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[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field), who, as ever, made a thoughtful and important speech on an issue that generally unites the House rather than divides it.

I apologise to the House for being away for a short time while I was attending the Health Committee, but of course I was here for the opening speeches and the first few contributions. I want to focus on a number of areas related to home affairs, including policing in my constituency, immigration and criminals in our jails, including several issues that have arisen following a visit that I recently made to a prison near my constituency.

As I said in my earlier intervention on the Home Secretary, I welcome the social action, responsibility and heroism Bill. Some people might not think that it is necessary, but those who try to do good as volunteers or just as passers-by in society often feel that the law is against them and they are not protected, as may well be the case, and anything that gives a nod in that direction is important.

I have mentioned my own experience working as a first responder with the ambulance service every weekend. One of my staff members—they are all trained as first responders as well—recently came across somebody who was in cardiac arrest, and had sadly died, but was laid out on the side of the road. He was the first one on the scene who was prepared to do anything to try to assist that person. There is not only the fear of getting involved, which is very difficult to get rid of, but the fear in the backs of many people’s minds that if they do something they may make the situation even worse and then end up being sued for it.

This applies not only to such experiences. Whenever it snows in my village, I clear the section of the path between the old people’s home and the pub, and people say as they are going past, “Be careful or you’ll get sued.” Thankfully, I have not been; I think some of the residents of the old people’s home have enjoyed being able to get to the Percy Arms. Although I have not faced any legal action, a lot of people have the perception that, if they try to do right, they will fall foul of some legal issue and end up being arrested or sued in the courts. I very much welcome this Bill as a nod in the right direction in that regard.

I want to say a little about crime and policing locally. I have never been a particular fan of the reductions in the police budget, which is why I always try to speak every time that we agree the police estimates, but I will not rehash my previous speeches on that subject. An awful lot more needs to be done on partnership working with the police. Whenever I meet the police locally, they outline the financial savings that they have to make, and I am fully conscious of the difficulties involved in that. However, I still get the impression—I will give a practical example in a moment—that the police have not fully embraced proper partnership working and engaging with other agencies such as local authorities and other emergency services. When they talk about partnership working, they seem to mean that they are prepared to work with other police forces, but when it comes to working with others there is still something of a silo mentality. More needs to be done by the leadership nationally, to drive the issue forward and make sure that some of the savings can be realised. I am concerned that when it comes to back-office costs and senior management, not enough is being done at the top to share work between agencies other than police forces.

My constituency is represented by two local authorities: the East Riding of Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire. North Lincolnshire council has been very forward thinking in playing its part not only in helping the police and crime commissioner to achieve his crime plan, but in reducing crime and the fear of crime locally. The council has funded a number of CCTV projects, including in Epworth and Winterton in my constituency, for which I and the ward councillors were pleased to secure the funding.

The council has also funded police community support officers for rural communities. Crime mapping and the allocation of police service resources focus on crime hot spots, which tend not to be in rural areas, so in my own area, North Lincolnshire council worked with me on a project to find funding for five police community support officers—two on the Isle of Axholme, one in the Burton and Winterton policing team, one in the Brigg team and another in the Barton team. They are now in post and are having a real impact.

Unfortunately, the area in which we are having trouble with the police force locally relates to the need to go further and expand the project with even more council-funded PCSOs. It is not often that one public body tries to throw money at another, only for the intended recipient not to want it, but that is a problem in my own area at present. The council is not able to shovel more money at the police force to employ more PCSOs, and none of the various reasons for that are acceptable either to myself as a local representative or to local people who tell us strongly that they do not believe that policing in our rural communities is being prioritised, because the crime rates mean that resources are not being allocated to them. When the local authority steps up and says, “We will buy in that extra provision to make people feel safe,” and the police say they do not want it, something is obviously going very badly wrong.

I am not criticising Humberside police, who have done a fine job of handling the significant financial challenge that they face. Their officers are dedicated and they have a good chief constable and senior officer team, but their intransigence on this issue is a cause of deep concern and regret. A lot more needs to be done regarding partnership working, and the police need to change some of their practices to properly embrace that.

It was interesting to hear the pro-immigration speech of the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) and I suppose we should respect him for that. I expect him to be pro-immigration, given that he wants to make very large numbers of Scottish people immigrants in England. Perhaps it is no wonder that he is so pro-immigration.

What concerns me about the immigration debate is that since the Euro election results, too many people seem to want to jump up and say that we should respond by informing people that they are wrong to think what they think about immigration. I find that deeply patronising and insulting to my constituents. I have seen that happen in my own area. When the migrant support grant went, I was summoned to a meeting to discuss it. There has been significant immigration from the European Union to the town of Goole since 2003. When I intervened on the shadow Home Secretary earlier, I asked her to apologise to the people of Goole, who have seen up to between 20% and 25% of their town come from eastern Europe. She chose not to apologise for that or for visiting my constituency recently without informing me. That is the context of why people in Goole are very concerned about immigration, and they should be listened to.

I was called to that meeting to talk about that fund by people, none of whom live in the Goole area, who wanted to tell me how awful it is that the people in Goole think the things they think. Yes, people sometimes do not use language that we might like them to use, but I find it wrong to brush aside their concerns in a patronising way and to talk down to them, saying, “Oh, Mrs Smith, you really mustn’t use language like that. How dare you.” Mrs Smith is not a racist. She is concerned about her community when her street in Goole—in many cases, a street of terraced houses—is suddenly peopled by large numbers of young males from eastern Europe. That has changed the dynamic of her street, and her concerns are legitimate.

This is not about rounding on Mrs Smith to make her better understand why immigration is good for this country and why she should put up with it, but about responding to her concern. She is concerned not about people who want to contribute coming to my constituency to work, but about the uncontrolled nature of the numbers and, in some cases, the types of people. Some of the large number of young people behave in a way that many in our area do not understand and do not consider acceptable, and they want that behaviour to be challenged. It very much concerns me that, since the vote in Europe, the debate seems to be all about how awful it is that people think such things, as opposed to trying to address their genuine concerns.

In my constituency almost half, if not more, of the intake of some schools are children—mainly Polish and Latvian—for whom English is their second language. Some of our GP lists have been closed, so there is a mad situation in which people whose children return to Goole after having temporarily moved away now cannot register with the GP who was their family GP when they were growing up. To use the example of Mrs Smith, she would of course look at that and think, “How is it that my son or daughter, who was born and bred in this town, cannot now go to the doctor who has cared for them all through their life, while someone can suddenly appear from another country and register with that doctor, with no controls on their ability to do so?” The anger comes from such a perception, and until we start to recognise that people have legitimate concerns—I have mentioned housing issues—we will get nowhere.

I am sorry to say that none of the current responses of any of the parties is acceptable or goes far enough. To try to get tough on non-EU immigration and all the rest of it in order to bring down the numbers is fine as far as it goes. However, the situation in my constituency is not about non-EU immigration, but EU immigration. We have to do something about the free movement of labour across Europe. We are losing people and losing the country on this issue, and until we address that fact, UKIP or other fringe parties of that nature—I would not necessarily call UKIP a fringe party now—will gain traction. I hope that in the next year or two, if we get a renegotiation on Europe, this issue will be addressed. Uncontrolled EU immigration is no longer acceptable and is not working.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman has mentioned housing, employment opportunities and health. The same also applies to education, in that school places have been lost to those living in such areas because of the level of immigration.

[Andrew Percy]

Absolutely. In fact, I mentioned schools in relation to their intake. We have had the problem of people living just outside the catchment area of the school that they went to as a child, but finding, because of this massive pressure on places, that they cannot get their child into their old school. All that feeds into a perception of unfairness and of immigration being bad, which I do not think people at the top have necessarily understood.

[Sammy Wilson]

Not only have we not put in the infrastructure to facilitate the huge increase in the number of people, but even when concerns are legitimate, people who wish to discuss them are immediately silenced by being dismissed as racist. They are not racist and do not intend to be racist at all, but they have genuine concerns that need to be addressed. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that is half the problem?

[Andrew Percy]

Absolutely. Because I had criticised the uncontrolled nature of immigration into my own town, when I was dragged to the meeting with various agencies, I was told that the things I had said were unacceptable. Needless to say, that meeting did not last very long or end very well when I robustly thanked the people for coming from their lovely villages in the richest parts of the East Riding of Yorkshire, where they do not have to live with large amounts of uncontrolled immigration. I thanked them for sharing their views, but the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that when people raise legitimate concerns, they are patronised and spoken down to by people who, all too often, do not live in these communities.

[Mr Frank Field]

Were any of the people who came to the meeting, other than the hon. Gentleman himself, elected?

[Andrew Percy]

Absolutely none of them were elected; the right hon. Gentleman makes a good point.

I would like to conclude on two small points. The second issue that I hope the Home Office will address, and about which it can do something practical, is foreign-registered vehicles, which feed into people’s perception of unfairness. I asked a couple of parliamentary questions in the previous Session about foreign-registered vehicles overstaying the six-month limit, and found that on one occasion there had been four prosecutions in the whole of the United Kingdom for vehicles staying beyond the period permitted. When I asked a similar question on another occasion in the previous Session, I believe that precisely zero vehicles had been prosecuted.

The issue is one of vehicles not being recorded when they arrive at the United Kingdom border, or when they leave. People in my town see the same vehicles and report them to my office, and we report them to the police. They see vehicles that have been here a year, possibly even two, that are still in our town and are not registered, paying tax or subject to UK insurance. The Government must take a lead on this issue. The only way to solve it is through better control at the border.

Finally, I want to discuss prisons, although I am perhaps stretching a debate on home affairs, given the Ministers present. I recently visited HMP Lindholme in Doncaster on the edge of my constituency. I was staggered when the governor told me about the problem there with mobile telephones and how much crime is being directed from inside the prison. Something must be done about that. We were told that for about 1,300 prisoners they had recorded 600 or 700 mobile phone signals coming from inside the prison. The blockers are not in place, although the technology is catching up.

The Government could take a strong lead on something that the governor and her team raised with me: when they identify the contracts of the phones being used inside the prison, the mobile phone operators are not very keen to terminate the numbers. That could be achieved relatively simply, so I hope that Ministers will look at that and seek to take a lead on it. It seems to me, as it would to my constituents, incomprehensible that people can direct criminal operations from behind bars. Something really must be done about that.

Having danced around some issues that are important to my constituents, I will leave it there and look forward to the Minister’s response.

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[Mr Robert Buckland (South Swindon) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty), who has campaigned assiduously on the issue of modern-day slavery. I pay tribute to him for the work he has done and for the attention to detail he has shown, which is so important when it comes to landmark legislation such as this.

My experience of modern-day slavery stemmed from my own professional contact with people who at that time were still being treated as defendants, but whom we now know increasingly must be treated as victims. It first manifested itself when I started to see a number of cases involving young Vietnamese people who had come into this country unlawfully, having spent tens of thousands of pounds to get here through many different member states of the EU and further beyond, and who were now in effect the prisoners of those who had brought them here, press-ganged into work as gardeners looking after cannabis or other crops, or press-ganged into prostitution and other crimes. These people were treated as defendants; it is clear that they are as much the victims of the crimes of their gangmasters as wider society.

That increasing realisation on my part—as somebody playing a small role in the criminal justice system—has been added to by people from all parties and none and by people from outside this place with great knowledge and understanding of the experiences of those who are trafficked, culminating in us dealing not just with the issue of trafficking, but with the more general issue of slavery. The definition of what that means in the modern age is an important one. Unfortunately, the criminal mind moves very quickly and as soon as existing types of abuse are found and stamped out, new and ingenious ways to continue that criminality emerge. That is why, when the Bill has its Second Reading and goes into Committee, it is important that we make sure that the definition of slavery does not in any way end up being a victim of a lack of foresight. In other words, it has to be future-proofed so that the examples given within the statute are non-exhaustive and allow prosecutors and the police to take action to deal with developing forms of that criminality. That is vital. We in this place are pressed for time and we do not have the resources to continue to return to the criminal law. The best criminal laws in my opinion are those that stand the test of time and prove up to the task of fast-moving developments in criminality.

That brings me to a more general point. It is clear from my examination of Professor Jonathan Shepherd of Cardiff university’s annual study of accident and emergency admissions that, while violent crime seems to be declining in society, crime is increasingly taking place online. That online criminality is now entering the experience of thousands of our constituents—day in, day out—and they come to us with problems that sometimes seem to be beyond the police’s ability to deal with. That, to me, is the greatest challenge we face in the modern era. We are patting ourselves on the back about a society that seems to be becoming less violent, but at the same time we ignore the online risks at our peril.

I know that the Government understand the problem and that the police understand it, as the need for more training and greater expertise of police officers in dealing with online criminality becomes ever greater as the years pass. I see a role not only for this House in framing legislation to combat online criminality, but very much one for our police and crime commissioners and all those charged with the responsibility of meeting the needs of the people we represent.

I commend the Queen’s Speech in respect of measures on home affairs and justice. As a humble Back Bencher, I am particularly encouraged to note that my pleas are being listened to. I perhaps sound a little surprised when I say that, but it is encouraging to know that the ideas of Members of Parliament can find their way through the process and result in some action. To my mind, that certainly restores some of the faith I have in the ability of individuals in this place of whatever party to try to influence the process for the better.

I am particularly encouraged, too, by the fact that the Government recognise the challenge they face regarding the recovery of confiscation assets. It is disturbing that only 18% of confiscation orders worth over £1 million are, in fact, recovered. That is a huge amount of money. It is not only a huge resource that we are missing; it is a standing affront to the justice system itself. Why pass court orders at all if they will have no meaning in reality? Why do we go through the rigmarole of applying the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 and its strong measures without clear results—not only for the taxpayer, but for society as a whole?

The justice of the situation is important, but it is also about good old-fashioned efficiency. That is why the package in the Serious Crime Bill to increase from 10 to 14 years maximum sentences for those in default on orders over £1 million, together with an increase in sentencing powers for orders worth over £0.5 million, is a wise one. The issue of automatic early release—we have heard it mentioned in other contexts—is particularly relevant when it comes to those who are serving sentences in default of payment. It has already been rightly established by the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 that the liability to pay the order is not extinguished by the service of a term in default, but to allow an automatic early release for those in default seems to me not only an affront to common sense, but hardly any incentive whatever for the wrongdoer or criminal to pay the compensation made out in the confiscation order. In other words, we need more of a stick approach when dealing with offenders who are consistently in default of important court orders and think that they can just while away their time and hope that all will be forgotten. That is not good enough.

The 18% figure has to rise. I will carefully watch out in the years ahead to see how it improves and how we can change the law, while improving the way in which we undertake confiscation. I urge all prosecutors and those charged with this important responsibility to use their judgment carefully and not constantly seek huge theoretical figures of benefit, but to look for what is realisable and discover what can be converted into cash or an asset that can be confiscated for the purpose of further law enforcement.

I also want to see an end to the rather depressing catfights that I have sometimes observed between different arms of law enforcement in relation to their particular roles. For example, a certain type of forfeiture has required money to go into one pot rather than another. Division of that kind is unhelpful, and does not lead to a properly co-ordinated approach to the confiscation of criminal assets.

I was interested and stimulated by some of what has been said about immigration. I think it incumbent on all of us to show leadership when it comes to such issues. We hear a great deal on the doorstep, and read a great deal in the newspapers, about the myths of migration, but we do not hear or read enough of the facts and the truths. Over the centuries, this land has benefited from migration. We are a land of migrants. We are a rich mosaic of people whose blood comes from all sorts of lands, and we should rejoice in that. We should remember that it has made this country truly great.

At the same time, leadership demands that we listen carefully to those who have justified concerns. When people are scared, we should not fan the flames of fear; we should offer the hand of reassurance, the strong arm of guidance, and the leadership that I believe will take us through these difficult years and demonstrate that, as a country, we are not only tolerant, but welcoming and accepting of people who want to come here, to play their part in our nation story, to make their contribution—whether through work or by other means—and to be a responsible part of our communities. That is what we want. That is what everyone with an understanding of what it is to be British wants. We have heard today about British values, and I believe that a sense of acceptance and a rejection of separation are very much part of what it is to be British.

We cannot go far wrong if we start on that basis. Then we can talk about the issues here: then we can make proper distinctions between non-EU and EU migration, and talk in a reasoned way about what the free movement directive actually means. It is not an unqualified right for people to come here, fold their arms and do nothing, and it never was. It applies to people who fall into certain categories—who are workers, or are self-sufficient—and who have a right to remain here. That is the reality, and it is a far cry from the nightmare scenarios being painted by those who wish to whip up the flames of separation and to profit in some way from fear. The vast majority of the people whom I see coming here want to work and to make a contribution, and many, after they have done their work, will return home to their countries of origin.

Let us not forget that while 1 million people or more are coming here from other EU countries, an equivalent number of UK citizens are going to other EU countries. Where is the mischief in that? What can possibly be wrong with a free-market system that allows such movements?

[Andrew Percy]

I will tell my hon. Friend what is wrong with it. It means an uncontrolled influx into towns such as Goole, in my constituency, which has not been planned or prepared for properly, and which places a massive strain on public services. My constituents are very welcoming: they will even accept folk from Lancashire. We simply want to know how many people are coming, and we want the resources that will enable us to control the numbers properly. Unfortunately, the free movement directive does not allow us to control them at all.

[Mr Buckland]

My hon. Friend has made a fair point, but I am afraid that he is in error. The directive provides a power that allows member states to have a registration system for people who wish to stay here for longer than three months. Let us not propagate the myth that the directive is an open door. It is not, and, with domestic enforcement, it can be better managed.

My hon. Friend makes a proper point about planning and public services, but we must also remember that without some migration some of the jobs that need to be done in our economy are not going to be done, and the question we have to ask is, who will do that work?

I am a great campaigner for the rights of people with disabilities, and I passionately believe they have their role to play in our growing work force. I know that is what they want, and that is also what they deserve, but getting to that ideal stage takes time. It takes time for employers to start to understand the benefits of employing people who perhaps have more challenges than others. While I want to get there, I understand the pressure on employers who, for example, cannot collect their crop or who cannot find a suitable person to fulfil a care role. Working with employers to encourage more employment locally—more indigenous employment, as it were—is a laudable aspiration and is the right thing to do, but to try artificially to close a door is bad news for our country and our economy and is not a realistic approach to a problem that has deeply complex origins and should not be viewed through the prism of cheap headlines and political slogans. That is what happens far too often in the debate on migration, and it is time we stopped that misleading and unhelpful approach. Let us show leadership on that issue.

Turning to issues relating to the UK passport agency, may I thank it for having helped a constituent of mine reach the beaches of Normandy last week? Mr Harry Prescott is now 92 years of age. The last time he was in Normandy he was a 21-year-old Royal Marine in Operation Overlord. By an odd quirk, he was not classified as a British citizen. He was born in Canada to UK parents, and for various reasons never ended up with a British passport. He wanted to play his part in the 70th anniversary commemorations, however, but when the time came for him to apply for a passport, he encountered a number of blocks to his application—the sort of bureaucracy that I know drives Members of this House quietly round the bend and which was certainly causing him a degree of frustration. I was contacted by 47 Royal Marine Commando Association about his predicament, and together we were able to prevail on the passport service to pull its finger out and get on with the job of issuing him with a passport. He was therefore able to join his comrades and colleagues and play his part in commemorating the momentous events that took place in Normandy 70 years ago. I therefore offer my genuine thanks, via my hon. Friend the Minister, to those in the passport service who made that possible.

With the help of Action for Children, one of our leading children’s charities, and other parliamentarians, I have been campaigning for a number of years now for a reform to the criminal law of child neglect. Paul Goggins has been referred to in many other contexts, but it would be wholly wrong of me not to pay tribute to him for the work he did on this important issue. The Crime and Courts Act 2013 was in Bill form when Paul presented an amendment in his and my name which will, in effect, be the basis of a provision that will appear in the Serious Crime Bill. The argument is a simple one. The criminal law of child neglect was drafted way back in 1868—some 150 years ago. It served an important purpose in its time, but times move on. Just because a law is old does not mean it is a bad law—far from it—but with the knowledge and understanding we now have about the full effects of all types of abuse of children and young people, I think it was remiss, to say the least, that we had not before now updated the criminal law to keep pace not only with developments in science and understanding, but with the developing civil and family law that already recognises varying types of abuse, including emotional abuse, when considering issues of family protection and whether or not a child is at risk or has experienced significant harm.

Very often, emotional abuse does not come alone. It will be accompanied, sadly, by physical and sexual abuse. Daniel Pelka is one of many well-known cases in which the signs of emotional abuse were emerging before the physical abuse took its toll on that poor young lad. It pains me to think that the police, the prosecuting authorities and all those with responsibility for child protection did not have that extra tool in the box when it came to dealing with emotional abuse. I am not saying that it might have changed the course of young Daniel’s life, but it could have made a difference to his life and it certainly will make a difference to the lives of hundreds of children and young people in this country if and when we amend the law to include emotional abuse. The criminal law is an interesting thing for those who have been imbued with it for the past 20 years, as I have. I believe that a lot of people would have been shocked to realise that section 1 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 covered only physical harm, but it was made crystal clear in a House of Lords case back in 1981 that that section was limited to the

“physical needs of the child and does not cover other aspects such as moral and educational”.

That meant that the door was firmly shut on emotional abuse.

A lot of people have asked me in the past few months how one defines emotional abuse and whether the new measure will not be a problem when it comes to parenting. Are we in danger of criminalising the firm but fair parent who deprives their child of an Xbox if there has been a misdemeanour in the household? Not a bit of it. It is not about firm but fair parenting. It is not about people who administer reasonable chastisement on their children. It is not about the millions of decent men and women who, like many of us in this Chamber, learn every day what it is to bring up a child. It is about the systematic abuse of children by people who either should know better or in some sad cases do not know better.