NHS: Independent Investigation

Andrew George Excerpts

Thursday 12th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Wes Streeting]

My hon. Friend makes a great point, and he has given great service to the Public Accounts Committee of this House by drilling into waste, inefficiency and exploitation of the public purse. I want to work with the great life sciences sector and pharmaceutical industry in this country and globally, but in a spirit of genuine partnership. A really good working relationship requires social responsibility; it certainly involves not ripping off the taxpayer.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I welcome the report. The previous Government left this Government with NHS and care services in the worst crisis in their history. The Secretary of State led by emphasising the decade of underinvestment; that needs to be coupled with pointing out the very weak workforce planning. When he meets the Liberal Democrats, will he review our costed plan to raise the investment necessary to address the issues highlighted in the report and to strengthen workforce planning in order to deliver services?

[Wes Streeting]

Fiscal policy is a matter for the Chancellor. I know on which side my bread is buttered, so I will not write her Budget or spending review now, but let me reassure the hon. Gentleman that, notwithstanding the £22 billion black hole that the Conservatives left in the public finances this year and the weak foundations of our economy that we have inherited, the Chancellor knows as well as I do that it is investment and reform that will deliver results. It will take time—we cannot reverse more than a decade of underinvestment in a single Budget or even a single spending review—but at least we have a Government able to face up to the hard choices and capable of making them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Karin Smyth]

I welcome my hon. Friend to his place. He knows what we all know, and what we know the entire country knows because we spent the past six weeks campaigning: it is the same story across the country. That is why we are committed to restoring standards and why we will fix this broken NHS, and of course I am happy to meet with him.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

A decision by the Conservatives two years ago means that the urgent treatment centre at the West Cornwall hospital in Penzance is now closed at night, and that has put pressure on the only emergency department in Cornwall—a long peninsula—at Treliske, where routinely 20 ambulances are parked outside creating a new metallic ward at the front of the hospital. That situation has had a detrimental impact, of course including avoidable deaths. Will the Minister meet me and colleagues and the local NHS to discuss this issue, to see how we can restore our emergency services?

[Karin Smyth]

Again, across the country we see the damage done over the last 14 years, and the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to highlight that the situation in one part of the system knocks on to other parts. That is why we want a 10-year plan to look at this, an immediate look with Lord Darzi, and, critically, to understand which community and primary care services can be supported to support the rest of the system. I am very happy to meet with colleagues across Cornwall, where we now have many Labour MPs.

Health Services: Rural Areas

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 17th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jamie Stone]

I absolutely endorse that. I am glad that I said in my opening remarks that my experience in a very remote part of Scotland applies to other parts of the United Kingdom. What we have just heard proves that this is the case.

NHS Scotland has halted all new builds and repairs to health centres across the entire country, which is another problem for healthcare. I have said already how big my constituency is. Just by commuting or doing house visits, healthcare staff will rack up 3,500 miles easily, because the distances are so great. At that point, their reimbursement per mile is more than halved, which does not encourage people to get involved. It is, in fact, discrimination against healthcare professionals who live in rural communities. Training is overwhelmingly based in urban areas, and there is very little incentive to get people to come and work in rural areas. Other factors, such as a lack of housing and job opportunities, feed into this problem.

There is another issue I want to raise: the lack of women’s health provision, which is pretty severe. In my maiden speech in 2017 I spoke about the need to restore maternity services to Caithness. Seven years later, that is more important than ever. Caithness general hospital used to have a consultant-led maternity service, which meant that expectant mothers could have their babies locally in the far north of Scotland. It was downgraded when I was my constituency’s Member of the Scottish Parliament. At that time, I had more influence and I got it restored. Since then, however, the maternity services have been downgraded again, and there appears to be no movement from the Scottish Government to reverse that. I wish that some Members from the party of the Scottish Government were present today.

Let me give an example of what this situation means: pregnant mothers have to make a 200-mile round trip in the car to deliver their babies. Imagine a trip like that in the middle of winter, and on rickety-rackety roads in the highlands. In 2019, a pair of twins were born—one was born in Golspie, and the other was born 50 miles away, in Inverness. It is a miracle that those children survived, and that neither a mother nor a child has perished. I have been calling for a safety audit all along, but there has never been one. We know perfectly well what the result would be: the arrangements would be deemed unsafe, if not a breach of human rights.

It is not just about maternity services; women’s health has been removed from the far north. A routine trip to see a gynaecologist and get a diagnosis for a life-threatening ovarian cyst, or for endometriosis, means travelling the same huge distance—if a woman is lucky enough to get an appointment before her condition has progressed too far for her safety. I wonder what we can do to encourage healthcare professionals to relocate to remote areas, because the health and wellbeing of their wives and daughters must surely be a factor when they consider moving.

For children growing up in the far north, it is no better. The waiting list for child and adolescent mental health assessments is three years. For neurodevelopmental screenings—for the diagnosis of dyslexia, autism, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and so on—it is four years. That is the majority of their time at school. One family I spoke to during the election had waited 13 years for a diagnosis. That is a disaster. Dentistry has already been mentioned, and we know that intervention is crucial for long-term dental health

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way, and I apologise to him for being caught out by the early start of this Adjournment debate. Does he agree that it would be really helpful if the new Government achieved a quick win to raise morale in rural areas where services have been so depleted for so long? This applies in west Cornwall, for example, where we cannot call on services from the north or south or west very easily. In those areas, as in others, we have a dentistry desert and the NHS and care services are experiencing their biggest crisis in their history. What we need, for example, is for the West Cornwall hospital to re-establish the urgent treatment centre overnight. Those kinds of quick wins could achieve the lifting of morale within the service and start moving things forward and upward from where they are at present.

[Jamie Stone]

My hon. Friend makes a good point, and I shall touch upon his sentiments in my closing remarks.

As many in the Chamber know—perhaps new Members do not—I myself am a carer: I am a carer for my wife. So I am very happy that my party has put carers at the top of our agenda. My party leader has spoken about being a carer himself. We desperately need reform, and I believe that the carers allowance should be introduced at a higher rate. In a way, I am declaring an interest here, in that I am an unpaid carer, but we have to look at this. I was recently informed of a constituent who was moved from one care home to another one 123 miles away in the highlands. That is a three-and-a-bit-hour journey each way for the loved ones to go and visit that old man. We can see why this is not great for morale.

I am from the highlands. I love my native highlands and I care passionately about where I come from, but I think that we need urgent intervention. This is my ask of the Minister. I recognise the nobility of the intent to address these problems at UK level, and I look forward to working with the Government in these endeavours, but the fact is that there is not the delivery under devolution that there should be. I am sorry that no Scottish National party Members are here. I am a committed devolutionist. I was part of the Scottish Constitutional Convention and my name is on the claim of right for Scotland, yet I find it incredibly disappointing that the outcomes are a lot worse than they were.

When I was in government in the Scottish Parliament, in coalition with the Labour party, we saw progress between 1999 and 2007, when the SNP came in. Now we see that things have gone backwards. This was the main issue on the doorsteps in Scotland, so I hope that the Labour Government can work hard at improving things. I ask them in a cordial way to do everything that can be done to improve the relationship with the Scottish Government, and perhaps encourage the Scottish Government to look at best practice in the rest of the UK and adopt that. I am not talking about hypothecation or about unrolling devolution, but by working together perhaps we can achieve something.

Also, it would be great if we could encourage NHS England to work closely with NHS Scotland, because it is complete and utter nonsense that people who could cross the border and get treatment have been prevented from doing so by bureaucracy, sometimes by politics of the not-so-clever sort, or by the computer systems not matching. That is nonsense. If someone living in the south of Scotland can get their operation done in Newcastle, let us just go for it.

I look forward to a Labour Government giving extra money to the health service, and I am sure they will. We will be looking closely at how that happens. There will, of course, be Barnett consequentials that will put that money into the devolved Welsh Assembly, the Scottish Parliament and the Northern Ireland Assembly. I hope that the UK Government will look closely at where those Barnett consequentials go. Will they go where we would hope they would go—namely, to improve the health service, to shorten waiting lists, to sort out the nonsense, and to give the standard of health service that my constituents and I believe everyone in rural parts of the UK is crying out for?

[The Minister of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Karin Smyth)]

It is a privilege to be the first Minister of this new Labour Government to respond to an Adjournment debate. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) for raising this important matter and, indeed, for his kind words.

I hope we can begin this Parliament as we mean to go on, by being candid about the formidable challenges that the NHS faces. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said on his first day in the job, the NHS is broken, and it will be the task of this Government to build a new NHS for the future. That means the NHS in our rural and coastal areas no less than the NHS in our towns and cities. I agree with the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) on that point.

Facing these hard truths does not take away from the heroic efforts of the people working in health and care, who have done their utmost in incredibly difficult circumstances. We all owe them, on behalf of our constituents, a debt of unending gratitude.

Instead, we want to focus our attention on what needs to be done, including early action to improve access to primary care, dentistry and dental health services in particular. We await the conclusions of a thorough investigation undertaken by the distinguished surgeon Lord Darzi to properly understand the scale of the problem. The Government will then begin work on an ambitious programme of action—a 10-year plan to put the NHS back on its feet. It is a privilege to be part of a Labour Government who are committed to fixing the NHS and making it fit for the future.

As the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross said, the Department’s responsibility stretches only to the NHS in England. Healthcare is devolved in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and it will continue to be so.

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on being first out of the traps to secure this debate on behalf of his constituents. As a committed advocate for his constituents in one of the most rural parts of Scotland, he has a deep understanding of matters affecting rural communities, as we have heard this evening. He also has a deep understanding of care, about which I have often heard him speak in this Chamber. It is good to see him back again doing just that.

I cannot speak in detail about the NHS in Scotland, of course, but I can speak about many of the common issues affecting access to care that are relevant to rural constituencies in England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. I know how rural the hon. Gentleman’s constituency is, and I know the particular challenges that creates in accessing GPs, dentists and emergency care, and in accessing women’s health and maternity services—an issue he has been passionately raising for so long. Maternity services are a problem across the United Kingdom, but I accept the examples he outlined.

Few places in England are as remote as the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, but I am very aware of similar issues affecting more rural areas near my Bristol South constituency. We have heard from the hon. Members for Glastonbury and Somerton (Sarah Dyke) and for St Ives (Andrew George) about morale and the difficulties we face in the south-west.

I hope that, in the years ahead, we can share and learn from one another across all of our borders. In many rural areas, the challenge of improving access to services is compounded by travel times and by the recruitment and retention of staff. We must recognise the importance of designing services that reflect an area’s particular circumstances, which is a growing challenge. As the chief medical officer has pointed out in his reports, people are moving out of towns and cities to coastal, semi-rural and rural areas as they age. At the time that people are most likely to need care, they are increasingly living in the places where it is most difficult to provide that care.

In England, integrated care systems will have a key role to play in designing services that meet the needs of local people. To do this, they will need to work with clinicians and local communities at place or neighbourhood level. We know that excellent primary care is an essential foundation for improving access, tackling the root causes of poor health and tackling problems early so that people remain in better health for longer, and hopefully do not need to access secondary and tertiary care at the same level. That is why Labour has pledged, as part of our health mission, to train thousands more GPs and bring back the family doctor, and that applies to all the nations.

We are also doing more to use the transformative power of technology. There is enormous potential in ideas such as virtual wards, which allow care to be delivered in people’s own homes. Such models of care can have disproportionate benefit in areas where rurality is a barrier to care.

Equally, we are committed to seeing the NHS app reach its full potential under the new Government. We understand that some people will need support to use that technology and we are aware of the challenges of rural broadband, but we are committed to making the benefits accessible to all.

[Andrew George]

The Minister has committed the new Labour Government to address those issues, but will she specifically address the matter of the two coroners’ reports into avoidable excess deaths as a result of very long waits for emergency services in Cornwall? They were never addressed by the previous Conservative Government. The reports were about not just the hours spent waiting—sometimes elderly, frail people were on the floors for 10 or more hours—but the fact that sometimes 20 or more ambulances greeted patients when they arrived at the emergency department. Two coroners’ reports were sent to the then Secretary of State, but there was never an adequate response. I very much hope the new Labour Government will review the failings of the previous Government and address those very serious concerns, which affect many other rural areas.

[Karin Smyth]

I am aware of the issues facing the south-west and, when in Opposition, I spoke in the local media about some of the ambulance challenges. I am not aware of those reports, but if the hon. Gentleman writes to me with the details, I will happily look into the issue and get back to him.

We also recognise the additional cost of providing services in rural areas, for example in travel and staff time. That is why the funding formula used by NHS England to allocate funds to integrated care boards includes an element to better reflect needs in some rural, coastal and remote areas.

The NHS faces significant challenges. It needs fundamental reform. The Prime Minister is personally committed to resetting the UK Government’s relationship with devolved Governments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I echo the Prime Minister’s words today about our commitment to rural constituencies across the entire country and I hope we can work with hon. Members from across the House, including the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 24th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Dr Poulter]

They are in the monthly staff statistics survey. As the hon. Gentleman would like some detailed information, I am sure he will be pleased to hear that in his constituency there are now 386 more nurses than there were in 2010 under the previous Government, and nationally there are 7,500 more nurses, midwives and health visitors working in the NHS.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Does my hon. Friend agree with me and with the nursing profession that if nurse staffing levels on acute hospital wards fall below one registered nurse to seven acutely ill patients, excluding the registered nurse in charge, it will significantly increase the risk to patient care and result in avoidable excess deaths?

[Dr Poulter]

My hon. Friend and I have discussed this many times and I do not agree with him, as he knows. What is important is that patients are assessed on their clinical needs. A rehabilitation ward will need a different number of nurses—indeed, it may need physiotherapists and occupational therapists—from intensive care nursing, which often requires one-to-one care, so setting arbitrary staffing ratios is not in the best interests of patients.

Francis Report: Update and Response

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 11th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I agree with the hon. Lady’s argument. Just as poor care has been identified in hospitals, so we have seen terrible examples of things happening in residential care and of inadequate domiciliary care. It is more complex, because the delivery of social care is more diffuse, but one way to deal with this is through the proper integration of health and social care and the proper assessment of quality based on the entire package of care that people receive, not just in individual institutions but across the board. We are doing a lot of work on that.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Like others, I welcome the report, but may I urge my right hon. Friend to reconsider the issue of safe staffing levels on acute hospital wards? I know that Robert Francis pointed to issues of culture and standards, but those are areas of interpretation and disputation. If we had the measuring stick of safe standards, particularly where a ward has less than one registered nurse to seven acutely ill patients—the level recommended by the Safe Staffing Alliance—whistleblowers would be able to point to a clear failing and service risk, which is especially important if the Secretary of State is worried about avoidable hospital deaths.

[Mr Hunt]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, but I hope I can reassure him, because NICE has published guidelines on safe staffing levels, although they are different for different parts of a hospital: in intensive care, it is 1:1; for less severe illnesses, it is one nurse to eight patients; and in other parts of a hospital, it is one nurse to four patients. Those are all published, and I hope they will help whistleblowers in Cornwall and elsewhere.

National Health Service

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 21st January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Andy Burnham]

I will give way one more time.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

At the start of his speech, the right hon. Gentleman said he was calling for common ground and consensus in this debate, although he seems to have become somewhat deflected from that path. He knows that I very much agree with his criticisms of the Health and Social Care Act 2012 and other things. He has said, on a constructive basis, that he wants to bring health and social care together. There is potential consensus and common ground in that regard. I would like to hear what more he can say constructively on the areas where, I think, we can find, across all parties, common ground and a way forward.

[Andy Burnham]

To find common ground, one has to tell it straight and put on the table the real reasons why there is pressure in A and E. I bet the hon. Gentleman would not disagree with a single reason I have given: NHS 111, closure of walk-in centres, difficulty in getting GP appointments, the collapse of social care—[Interruption.] Yes, he says he does not disagree with any of those things. If we have a shared analysis, then he and I will have a basis on which to devise solutions. I will come to those solutions later.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 13th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Norman Lamb]

As I said in response to the previous question, there is a real case for constantly seeking to refine the way the service works. The urgent and emergency care review pointed to ways in which we could do that to ensure that, in appropriate cases, people could get through to a doctor or a nurse to give them the right advice. That, in turn, would reduce the number of people turning up at A and E.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Further to the previous question, will the Minister urgently review the operation of NHS 111, as not only did it experience meltdown over the Christmas period in my area, but it is run from a call centre in Newport, 200 miles away, and it uses algorithms that involved staff asking a patient in my constituency, “Are you conscious?”?

[Norman Lamb]

Call volumes doubled over the Christmas period compared with those a year ago, so the system was certainly under enormous pressure. As I say, the survey results show that a lot of people were diverted away from A and E, but there is absolutely a case for seeking to improve 111.

A and E (Major Incidents)

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 7th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

I am afraid that what the right hon. Gentleman says is simply not correct. We have continued with key operational targets. A number of them are under pressure, but when we look at each of them we see that the reason is that the NHS is treating more people than ever before but demand is outstripping supply. For example, nearly half a million more people visited A and E in the most recent quarter than in the last quarter of the previous Labour Government, and we have 1,000 more doctors in our A and E departments. That tells us that, along with short-term help with these pressures we need a long-term solution, which is what this Government are committed to.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

This is a serious and complex issue, and one of the factors causing it is that many seriously ill patients cannot be admitted to acute hospital wards because there are insufficient beds. In the light of that, I draw the Secretary of State’s attention to an NHS Confederation report from May 2006, “Why we need fewer hospital beds”. I cautioned at the time that it would be unwise to pursue such a policy without first front-loading primary and social care. Will he look at enhancing acute hospital beds until primary and social care have the capacity to help out the acute sector?

[Mr Hunt]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. In fact, I was talking with someone senior at the Royal Cornwall hospital on Monday about the particular pressures there. Indeed, some of the funding that we allocated to the NHS in the autumn statement for next year is designed to do precisely that—to allow hospitals to maintain bed capacity while we ramp up facilities in community and primary care. It is very important to get the timing absolutely right.

A and E and Ambulance Services

Andrew George Excerpts

Thursday 18th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

Interestingly, the Opposition, who are trying to make so much of this, have actually run out of questions in an urgent question on a matter that they said was very urgent. I commend my hon. Friend’s interest in the east of England and I reassure him that we discuss it most weeks in my Department, because two of my ministerial colleagues are covered by the east of England ambulance service and we are very conscious of the problems there. The situation is getting better but there is a long way to go.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

My right hon. Friend is fully aware, because he attended the Health Committee last week, that accident and emergency services do not operate in isolation. So does he not agree that integrating not only in-hours and out-of-hours GPs, NHS 111, ambulances services and minor injuries units, but social services, mental health services and dental services is essential to ensure that we have fewer avoidable A and E admissions and that we therefore reduce the pressure we are debating today?

[Mr Hunt]

I do agree. The first thing we could do as a step towards that is properly integrate out-of-hours care, linking out-of-hours GP services, A and E departments and 111 departments. Obviously, that needs to be linked into the in-hours GP care that people will give. I wish to commend the efforts being made in Cornwall to improve A and E performance, which has been getting better in recent weeks. We are all very encouraged by that, because there have been a lot of challenges in that area.

NHS (Five Year Forward View)

Andrew George Excerpts

Monday 1st December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

It really demeans debate in this House to go on about some phoney argument that one side of the House cares about the NHS while the other does not. We have shown our commitment to the NHS by announcing today £2 billion of additional funding. That is a big deal and it shows our commitment. We have also given all nurses a 1% pay rise.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I welcome the additional money. My right hon. Friend is right that health providers need a stable financial environment, but many of them have been left with a debilitating legacy of debt. The Royal Cornwall Hospitals Trust in my own area has a legacy of debt, which is just a fraction of the amount by which the Government have admitted that they have underfunded the local health economy over many years. Rather than having distorting activity going on in that trust, would it not be better for it to start with a clean sheet of paper and to build for the future rather than constantly having to work from a position of debt?

[Mr Hunt]

I sympathise, because the previous Labour Government left hospitals with more than £70 billion of PFI debts. Those debts must be paid off and that money cannot be spent on front-line patient care. We have done what we can on a case-by-case basis to help trusts deal with those debts. It is extremely difficult when resources are tight and of course I will consider the trust’s particular case.