Health Services (Cornwall)

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 11th December 2012 Westminster Hall

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I am delighted to have secured this debate on health services, which are important in Cornwall—and, I am sure, in the rest of the world as well.

The national health service was created in 1948. It looks forward to its 65th birthday while facing the biggest challenges in its history, and nowhere more so than in Cornwall and on the Isles of Scilly. The previous Labour Government set a demanding target of £20 billion efficiency gain by 2015, something not advanced for any other health system on the planet, and the present Government have introduced the biggest reorganisation since the NHS was created.

As the Minister knows, I have argued, and voted, against the Government on what is now the Health and Social Care Act 2012. However, we must face up to what the Government have done, to ensure that, irrespective of the wisdom or otherwise of the policies, the Act does not undermine our vital local health services in Cornwall and on the Isles of Scilly.

Along with the significant financial challenges, which are a great deal more significant in Cornwall and on the Isles of Scilly than in the rest of the country, I hope to raise some of the many other challenges that the local NHS faces, including the consequences of the loss of the helicopter service to the Isles of Scilly.

I want to mention the important campaign that Sandra Cousins, one of my constituents, launched a year ago, following the tragic death of her daughter Mercedes Curnow, which led to the setting-up of the Mercedes Curnow Foundation. Mercedes died on 14 December 2011, aged 23. She and her mother had sought to highlight the need to strengthen the systems for detecting and treating cervical cancer in young women—particularly those under 25, who are denied screening in many circumstances.

There are many other issues. Nationwide, there needs to be a greater emphasis on registered nurse-to-patient ratios in some acute settings, and the need in Cornwall is significant. There is the risk of regional pay, the need to ensure adequate community hospital beds and primary care services, and the public health agenda, which must ensure adequate levels of NHS dentistry. That might be far too many issues to fit into the limited time available.

I am very reassured that highly professional and dedicated clinicians are already working hard to ensure that our local health services are the best they can be in the circumstances. In 2013, the new service in Cornwall will, as in the rest of the country, be largely led by local general practitioners. I am delighted that the shadow Kernow clinical commissioning group—“Kernow” is Cornish for Cornwall—chaired by Dr Colin Philip, was only this afternoon authorised by the NHS Commissioning Board to be responsible for the £700 million for commissioning health services across Cornwall.

The group is very open to working with the local community in ways that are extremely encouraging. For example, the Cornish campaign group 38 Degrees is already working with the group and suggesting amendments to its constitution to ensure that local health services are protected in ways that any local community would wish them to be protected. It is well on the way to creating new structures, challenging as they are, that will shape how the NHS operates in Cornwall.

A big challenge nationally is to ensure that the NHS really effectively puts patients before profit. The previous Government rolled out the red carpet for private health companies in Cornwall, as elsewhere, and gave them opportunities to profit their shareholders by delivering some of the less challenging elements of NHS work. I have questioned the basis on which tariffs will be awarded for procedures. After I raised questions with him about the risk of cherry-picking, the new Secretary of State told me, in a letter dated 30 October 2012:

“Under these new rules, commissioners should adjust the tariff price if a provider limits the type of patients it treats…resulting in lower costs than the average of the tariff category. As a result, providers undertaking only the more simple interventions—for example, because they do not have the proper facilities to handle more complex cases—would be paid a suitably lower price.”

That is certainly the case in Cornwall, where a number of private providers deal with some of the easier and less complex cases—for example, patients without anaesthetic risk and those without co-morbidities. If those providers are offered a lower tariff price the question that needs to be asked is whether that might have the unintended consequence of commissioners driving patients into the arms of the private providers that cannot provide the range of services that the Royal Cornwall Hospitals Trust, for example, excellently provides for our local community.

There is also fragmentation, which although a nationwide issue is a particular risk in a peninsula that depends on core services and has no alternatives. Although patient choice might well apply, and is welcome as a luxury beyond the core services, the risk is, of course, that it will not necessarily help services if it results in their fragmentation.

On the role of the private sector, my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) and I have raised concerns with the Care Quality Commission about what we detected had been going on with the out-of-hours GP service in Cornwall. The CQC, in its report in July, found—as the Minister will know because of the significant national ramifications—that there had been some manipulation of some of the data records, and inadequate staffing. The primary care trust, in its report on 20 September 2012, identified that it had deliberately altered data 250 times between January and June this year, which had the effect of inflating its published response times. That is not particularly encouraging. The problem is that in a very competitive environment there is an increased risk that that might happen.

Cornwall must ensure that it gets a fair share of the cake. Our allocation is significantly less than what the Government say we deserve—their stated target—and they should take account of the underfunding we have had in recent years. For example, between 2006 and 2012 Cornwall has received £201 million less than its target. That is a significant amount, and I would be surprised if anywhere else in the country had been allocated so much less than what the Government said it should get. This year, 61 primary care trusts will receive a total of £1.3 billion over target, while 88 PCTs, one of which is Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly, will receive £1.3 billion below target.

Added to that, Cornwall receives less money for each medical procedure within a national tariff, using the market forces factor framework as the index. The Royal Cornwall Hospitals Trust receives the lowest payment of any acute trust in the country. It inherited debts from troubles that originated in 2006-07, which rose to £46 million in 2008-09. Although repayments have reduced the debt to £22 million, it will be passed on to the new quasi-independent foundation trust, which we hope will be established next year.

Although we have had disappointing responses from Ministers so far, my hon. Friends the Members for Truro and Falmouth and for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) and I are still arguing that the debt should be written off to give that foundation trust a clean slate on which to begin its work next year.

I entirely support and thoroughly endorse the trust’s response to the latest revelations with regard to concern in the obstetrics and gynaecology department. I make it clear, so that there is no equivocation or uncertainty, that I entirely endorse the actions the trust has taken with the external review, and we hope that that will be brought to a conclusion as soon as possible. The trust is certainly doing all it can to reassure patients in Cornwall. The trust has high standards, and we entirely support the work it is doing. We hope that patients who may be concerned will contact the trust.

Sandra Cousins of the Mercedes Curnow Foundation has been working tirelessly. Although I have written to Ministers on this issue over the past year and have received helpful and instructive replies, a large number of young women are still dying, unnecessarily in my view and certainly in the view of Sandra Cousins and her many supporters across the country.

Sandra is also concerned that, even where GPs are prepared to undertake a smear test—smear tests for young women under 25 have to be authorised by a doctor—laboratories, apparently, are not always following through by undertaking work on those tests. She argues that laboratories must accept and follow through the necessary tests. She draws a comparison with Australia, where the cervical screening limit is 18 and where, since 2009, the human papilloma virus vaccination has been available for those up to 26 years old, which is much higher than in this country. The mortality rate from cervical cancer in Australia is half the UK’s.

Sandra Cousins says:

“I also feel regarding the hpv vaccination that it should be done nationwide in schools. Cornwall is a prime example of low uptake of the vaccination, 49% compared to many counties that are 89%, because it is done at G.P. practice not in schools.”

She advances the case for schools, but she is also concerned about the 18 to 26-year-old cohort, because HPV vaccination ends at the age of 18 and there is no cervical screening for those under 25. Her daughter, of course, fell into that cohort, and I certainly believe she has a strong case for advancing the points that she is making.

Of 20 cervical smear and HPV tests that the Mercedes Curnow Foundation has funded, 18 were positive. Those women went on to have further investigations and treatment. Sandra Cousins cites other examples where that is an issue that needs to be addressed in more detail.

I have mentioned regional pay, and I am pleased that MPs across the south-west met the Under-Secretary of State for Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter) last week. We were reassured by his response, and he will be writing to the south-west consortium. Indeed, those south-west MPs will be writing to the chief executives of the 19 trusts engaged in that consortium to encourage them to get back to national negotiation.

I urge the Government to consider nurse staffing levels. With all the stories about poor care and nursing in hospitals, few are prepared to consider the resources that are going into the hospital wards themselves. On many occasions, nurses are running around unable to fulfil all of their duties because there is an insufficient number of them on the ward. There are mandatory registered nurse-to-patient ratios in places such as Australia and they work well, with good outcomes.

The commercial helicopter service to the Isles of Scilly ceased just over a month ago, and it is already having an impact on services to my constituents on the Isles of Scilly. Blood samples and patients are unable to get over to the mainstream health services on the mainland, and I hope the Minister is prepared to look closely at that and perhaps work with the Department for Transport to help find a solution. Cross-departmental co-operation is required.

We have low levels of NHS dental provision in Cornwall, and I am concerned that the local authority might put the director of public health not on the chief officers board of the local authority, but under one of those senior officers. There are major concerns across Cornwall that Peninsula Community Health, the community interest company set up last year, is unable to provide the necessary staff to staff community hospital beds. It is important that we front-load community and primary care to get the balance right between those acute hospitals seeking to discharge patients earlier than they are able and avoiding unnecessary admissions to those hospitals.

I am sorry that I have gone on for a minute longer than I intended. There are many challenges, but the biggest that we face—I hope the Minister will take this on board—is Cornwall’s unfair funding deal: £200 million of missing money over the past six years alone.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health (Anna Soubry)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Leigh.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) on securing this debate and on raising what can only be described as a rich pot-pourri of topics relating to the state of the health service in his county and to his constituents, whom he serves not only in St Ives and across Cornwall but on the Isles of Scilly.

I assure my hon. Friend that the total revenue allocated to NHS Cornwall and Isles of Scilly increased by 2.8% in 2012-13, which is entirely in line with the 2.8% overall increase nationally. That represents an additional £26 million to invest in front-line care in his local area. Indeed, the total budget for NHS Cornwall and Isles of Scilly is £941.8 million for 2012-13. On top of that, I am advised that the local NHS expects to achieve efficiencies of 4%, totalling £36 million, with those funds being made available to support improved services to patients in Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly.

I understand that the independent Advisory Council on Resource Allocation has been developing a new allocations formula. I am told that allocations to clinical commissioning groups for 2013-14 will be announced by the NHS Commissioning Board later this month and that ACRA’s final recommendations are due to be published alongside those allocations.

It is not for me to say whether Cornwall should receive more or less money—it is difficult to think that Cornwall could possibly ever receive less—but if there are some inequities, I am sure my hon. Friend and his colleagues from the county will do their best, as they always do, to put forward those arguments with full force. I assure him that they will continue to be listened to.

[Andrew George]

The Government are clear that Cornwall receives less money than they say it should. I gave the figure earlier that Cornwall received more than £200 million less than the Government said it should.

[Anna Soubry]

Indeed, but it is for ACRA to come up with a new formula, and it is hoped that that can be advanced. The formula might, of course, be to the benefit of the county.

There is a rich number of topics to address, and it is difficult to know where to begin, but I will start by saying that I am disappointed that my hon. Friend chose to vote against the Government’s excellent NHS reforms. In his area, as he has already told us, the CCG was authorised yesterday. I will give some examples of how that movement of power and determination into the hands of front-line professionals will benefit his constituents.

The CCG has secured more than £500,000 from the Government’s dementia challenge fund to improve the lives of people in Cornwall living with dementia and their carers. The funding will be spent on improving dementia care in residential and nursing homes and in the community, and increasing peer support in communities and hospitals. Those are just some of the things that that successful application for £500,000 will achieve. The CCG is also investing £300,000 to expand the acute care at home programme. I have many other examples, including four services in Cornwall that have been expanded through the “any qualified provider” scheme: psychological therapies, back and neck pain treatments, adult hearing services and ultrasound and MRI diagnostic services. My hon. Friend raised concerns about the march of the private sector, but if there is such a march—I have no evidence of it—it would seem that in his county, it is by no means to be feared; indeed, it is to be welcomed.

My hon. Friend mentioned the loss of the helicopter from Penzance to the Isles of Scilly. I know that the service has ceased, and I understand the worry that that causes him and many of his constituents. I understand that the service previously fulfilled all non-emergency health transportation needs, but I am informed that emergency transport is usually carried out by RNAS Culdrose, so any interruption to routine travel affects only non-emergency appointments. The islands are also served by a passenger ferry, and the NHS has back-up arrangements in place to use a cargo ship if needed for medical samples.

In response to the ending of the helicopter service, I am told that the Isles of Scilly Steamship Company, which runs the fixed-wing aircraft Skybus and the passenger ferry Scillyonian—forgive me for not pronouncing it correctly—

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew George]

The Scillonian.

[Anna Soubry]

My hon. Friend knows it better than I. The company has enhanced its services to accommodate NHS needs, and has committed to purchasing a second aircraft to enable it to increase flights. I hope that those arrangements are of some assurance to him.

On registered nurse staff ratios and the skill mix, we know that patient care in the 21st century is different from what it used to be. Hospitals report that the type of demand that they face is changing. In particular, the average lengths of hospital stays are about one third shorter than they were 10 years ago. It is true that the number of nurses has been decreasing, but the total number of professionally qualified clinical staff in the NHS is rising.

Planning the number of nurses and the shape and size of the work force must be based on the needs of the people in our care. Services must be properly designed around the care and treatment that people need. Those decisions could result in a need for nursing numbers to change, but that must be based on properly redesigning services, not just on affordability. Changes must be decided at a local level, based on evidence that they will improve patient care. It is important to use this valuable staffing resource wisely, in properly constructed multi-professional teams with appropriately blended skills focused on the care and treatment needed by patients, families and communities.

The Government are committed to improving quality standards in the NHS. Our role is to clarify the standard of patient care demanded of the NHS through the mandate and to underpin it with robust external monitoring and validation by appropriate bodies. We are not here to impose management solutions.

[Andrew George]

I am interested in what the Minister says. However, is she saying that she and her fellow Ministers are content that registered nurse staffing levels are currently adequate in all settings within the NHS?

[Anna Soubry]

With great respect, I could not possibly say either yea or nay to that, because I do not know what they are, but I always look forward to the continuing representations made by hon. Members urging Ministers to raise or change the numbers.

I turn to the concerns expressed about the financial situation of the Royal Cornwall Hospitals NHS Trust. I hope that those concerns will now be allayed; the trust is forecasting a surplus of £3.8 million for 2012-13, and is progressing well on its path to achieving foundation trust status. Yesterday, through a video link, I spoke to one of the trust’s officers, who told me with much encouragement about plans for the future of the hospital and said that the trust believes that it is now on top of its financial situation. By way of example, I asked specifically about the trust’s preparations for winter, as it looks like we are going to have one of the hardest winters in this country for a long time. I was heartened by not only the trust but the PCT and others to whom I spoke about the high level of preparedness in Cornwall and Devon, two counties that are used to unusual snaps of weather, quick changes and sudden emergencies. I was left with a feeling of great confidence that those two counties are doing everything that they should to be ready. For what it is worth in this short time, I urge all counties to be in as great shape as Cornwall and Devon are.

In my remaining few minutes, I will turn to one particular point. My hon. Friend may have raised others. If I have not answered them, I will write to him. He rightly talked about a foundation trust set up by one of his constituents in memory of another of his constituents. I did not catch their names, so if he will forgive me, I will not make a hash of them, as it is a serious matter and a young woman lost her life. I am told that 80% of eligible women in Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly took part in the NHS cervical screening programme in the previous five years. That uptake has increased from the previous year and exceeds the percentage of women who took part nationally.

My hon. Friend’s point was about screening for women under the age of 25. He said that it concerns him, and asked why the age should not be reduced. In May 2009, the advisory committee on cervical screening reviewed the screening age specifically and considered all the latest available evidence on the risks and benefits of cervical screening in women aged between 20 and 24. The committee was unanimous in deciding that there was no reason to lower the age from 25, which happens to be in line with the World Health Organisation’s recommendations. The committee gave a number of reasons, which I cannot read out given the time available. I am more than happy to supply him with a list of those reasons.

That is not to say by any means that my hon. Friend and his constituents should cease their campaign to achieve better levels of screening and awareness among young women about the fact that cervical cancer can affect them even though they are young. I say that as the mother of two daughters, one aged 21 and one 22. It may be of some interest to him that by complete coincidence, I was stopped today by my hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan), who approached me because she too, unfortunately, had a constituent under the age of 25 who died of cervical cancer. She raised the same issue with me. I gave her an undertaking that I am more than happy to meet with her and her constituents to discuss it further, and I extend that invitation to my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives and to his constituents who are campaigning. It may well be that the matter should be revisited. As I said, the advisory committee considered the issue in 2009. The technology may have changed—I know not—but it is certainly a matter that needs to be considered, and I am more than happy to meet hon. Members to talk about it and see whether anything can be done.

It would appear that I have dealt with all the items on my list of notes, and so—

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 27th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Dr Poulter]

I fully agree with the hon. Lady and I take her concerns on board. However, because of the additional freedoms introduced by the previous Government, local employers in foundation trusts throughout the NHS have additional freedoms to set their own pay, terms and conditions. Under the rules introduced by the previous Government, it is impossible for us to intervene directly in the matter, except by continuing to encourage trade unions and NHS employers to meet the national agreements. If national terms and conditions are agreed to, I am sure that they will be endorsed at a regional level by the south-west consortium.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I am very pleased that the Minister will be meeting a cross-party delegation of MPs from the south-west next week to discuss this issue. In view of his answer to the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy), is he confirming that Health Ministers have no powers at all to intervene in the negotiations between employers and their staff?

[Dr Poulter]

It is worth putting it on the record that it was the previous Labour Government who introduced foundation trusts in 2003 and set them free from direct accountability to Ministers. That includes the ability to set their own pay, terms and conditions. It was Labour that removed the power of the Secretary of State to direct foundation trusts, and it is Labour, not the Government, that needs to decide whether it supports the legislation that it put in place in government. We endorse national pay frameworks and will do all that we can to preserve them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hunt]

What this issue is addressing—it was legislation introduced by the hon. Lady’s Government in 2006—is a clearly unsustainable situation with South London Healthcare. The proposals have to look at making sure that there is sustainability throughout an entire local health economy. I have not made any decisions at all. I will wait for the proposals to come to me at the end of the year, and I will then make my decision in January.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

T6. There is mounting evidence that clinical care failure is as much to do with inadequate staff levels as anything else. In view of that, do Ministers agree that it is worth looking at the merits of establishing mandatory registered nurse to patient ratios across secondary and tertiary care wards?

[Dr Poulter]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question. This point has been raised before and although it sounds like a good idea in principle, the problem is that different aspects of care in different wards—for example, an older people’s ward compared with a ward that looks after younger people—will have differences in the intensity of nursing. Therefore, a mandated ratio would be difficult to implement. A ratio may be counter-productive to making sure that we can give more intensive nursing cover where it is needed, and could even encourage a race to the bottom.

NHS Commissioning Board (Mandate)

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 13th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

As the right hon. Gentleman will know, we are losing 24,000 people unnecessarily every year by not properly recognising the symptoms of diabetes. That is incredibly important. We have made it clear that reducing mortality rates—preventing avoidable mortality—is a major priority of this Government, so I expect this to be a key priority for GP practices and for local authorities throughout the country.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s statement today and the mandate, and note that it is based on the NHS constitution, which states that it is founded on a common set of principles and values. So in a week when GPs have become millionaires by selling off their interests in parts of the NHS, may I suggest a further test, beyond the friends and family test—a patients before profit test? Will that be introduced?

[Mr Hunt]

The outcome that we want is for more patients to live longer and more healthily than ever before. The right thing for me to specify in the mandate is that we want the NHS to deliver improved patient outcomes. Sometimes that will involve using the independent sector and the voluntary sector, but in the vast majority of cases it will mean working within the traditional NHS. If we deliver those improved outcomes, we will be doing the right thing by patients throughout the country.

Regional Pay (NHS)

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 7th November 2012 Westminster Hall

[Mr Bradshaw]

The tariff is a separate issue, but that was an interesting intervention, because, for the first time, we had a Conservative MP actually speaking out in favour of regional pay in the NHS. That is not Government policy, and in all the correspondence that I have had from Ministers, they have denied that it is. At least the hon. Gentleman is one of the few MPs in the south-west who has the courage to be honest and to say that he supports it. He is almost alone; I have not spoken to a single other Conservative or Liberal Democrat Member of Parliament who supports this policy. I hope, as I said earlier, that those who do not support it will have the courage of their convictions, stand up for the west country for once and vote for the Labour motion in the main Chamber later.

As I was saying, there will be an exodus of staff to other regions and to hospitals in our region that are not part of the cartel. Between May 2010 and 2012, the south-west suffered the biggest reduction—3.54%—in qualified nurses of any region in England, and the situation is set to get worse. However, the impact will be felt not just on the health service. The south-west of England already has the biggest gap of any region in England between housing costs and wages. A reduction in public sector pay in our region of just 1%—of course, the reductions that we are talking about are much bigger—would suck £140 million out of the south-west economy, at a time when we need more, not less, demand in our economy.

I acknowledge, as do the unions and staff organisations, that there may be a case for changes to Agenda for Change. The NHS—this is partly a response to the point made by the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile)—is, after all, having to cope with the huge costs of the Government’s disastrous reorganisation of the health service, combined with its tightest-ever funding. However, the answer is to deal with these issues in national talks, in the usual way, and not to allow these parallel plans to proceed, threatening to derail national discussions and making a sensible agreement at national level less likely.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I would be grateful if the right hon. Gentleman clarified whether he supported the previous Government’s introduction of regional pay in the Courts Service or the freedoms that they gave foundation trusts, which enabled this very cartel to be established?

[Mr Bradshaw]

I am afraid the hon. Gentleman is wrong: the FT legislation allows FTs to pay wages that are as good as, or better than, those under Agenda for Change, so the claim often made by Liberal Democrats, who feel very uncomfortable being part of a Government who support regional pay in the NHS, is wrong. The FT legislation is quite clear: FT hospitals must pay rates as good as or higher than those under Agenda for Change. The hon. Gentleman’s point is completely irrelevant to our discussion.

In their answers to me so far, the current Health Secretary and his predecessor have tried to hide behind the very flexibility argument that the hon. Gentleman has just made—that flexibilities already exist in Agenda for Change—and they have declined to intervene. Yes, there are flexibilities in Agenda for Change to allow for local market conditions, but that is not what we are talking about. What we have here is an explicit—those involved have made it explicit—walking away from Agenda for Change, with the wholesale adoption of a regional and regionally negotiated pay structure, which, incidentally, takes no account of the different market conditions in, say, Cornwall and Wiltshire.

I know, as a former health Minister, that all it would take is a simple word from the Minister here today, and this madness could be stopped. Will she undertake to Members to intervene and make it clear to the 20 trusts involved that the Government do not support regional pay and that they should rejoin the national pay negotiation process under Agenda for Change? If she will not do that, she needs to explain why—and, please, no flannel about the NHS trusts being autonomous. She has been a Parliamentary Private Secretary and then a Minister for long enough to know that all she needs to do is speak to Sir David Nicholson, the chief executive of the NHS, or to the estimable chief executive of the southern region, Sir Ian Carruthers, and they would stop what is happening. If she will not intervene, she also needs to explain why she is prepared to continue to inflict damage on south-west NHS staff morale and destabilise the national pay negotiations.

If what is happening was thought up in the Department as a clever ruse to get the national talks kick-started, or to try to wring more concessions out of the staff side, it has backfired disastrously. There is a sensible way through, which the Minister has the power to achieve: to agree changes to Agenda for Change at the national level. The alternative is continuing uncertainty, long-term damage to staff morale and a wholly irresponsible risk to patient safety and the quality of care in the south-west of England.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew George]

It is my understanding that the cartel is not entirely engaging with the unions in the way that the unions believe it should. What powers do the Government have to intervene in the activities of the cartel, within the powers and guidance that were conveyed to them by the previous Government in the regulations?

[Anna Soubry]

I hope to answer those points in my speech, in the time available to me. If I do not, I will of course write to the hon. Gentleman and answer those questions in full.

I want to talk about the financial situation in the national health service. We have already guaranteed the NHS preferential funding for the current spending review, ensuring real-terms growth every year and additional cash of more than £12 billion per annum by 2014, going into 2015. We are driving up £20 billion of quality, innovation, productivity and prevention savings, stripping out bureaucracy, cutting management costs by up to one third and shifting resources to front-line services. To be blunt, we cannot spend more on public expenditure without putting our national financial reputation at risk. We must demonstrate that we have the commitment to ensure that our economy is sustainable.

The south-west consortium faces a stern choice. It can either continue to ignore the problem, and hope that it will go away, or it can face the challenge, share it with its staff and their representatives, and work in partnership to achieve the best outcome for everyone concerned, especially patients. I used to be a shop steward and a member of the National Union of Journalists. I understand and value the role of good partnership working with staff and trade unions. I believe that the south-west consortium is taking a mature approach. It published two discussion documents in August, setting out the scale of the financial and service challenge that it faces. It has not made any decisions. It has produced a paper, setting out a wide range of options for changes to terms and conditions, and how they might help. It has included options affecting all staff, including doctors, so that every opportunity is considered, no stone is left unturned, and there are no sacred cows. I believe that that is a responsible approach.

The consortium reaffirmed its commitment to national terms and conditions and agreed not to put any proposal to its boards until December, allowing reasonable time for the conclusion of national negotiations on a possible agreement to make Agenda for Change changes sustainable. I believe that that, too, is responsible.

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Soubry]

I agree with my hon. Friend. Monolithic structures would not be welcome. What is welcome is when trusts take a responsible view to ensure that they act in the best interests of their employees and that they have a financially sustainable system. That is in the interests of everyone—staff and patients.

[Andrew George]

Following my intervention on the right hon. Member for Exeter, he responded that the only flexibility is to exceed existing pay and conditions, not to go below them. Is that also the Minister’s understanding?

[Anna Soubry]

My understanding is that foundation trusts—the hospitals—have powers and a great deal of autonomy. That was the system set up and backed throughout by the previous Government, and it continues today. NHS employers are better placed to decide how best to reward and motivate their staff for the benefit of patients. They are better placed to assess whether national terms are fit for purpose or sustainable in the light of local competition, and to assess the options and risks of any recruitment or retention problems that might follow from introducing local pay. Such decisions should not be, in my view, made by Ministers.

Some Members have expressed concern that it is not fair to pay different rates for the same job in different areas, as it could undermine recruitment or morale. I understand and appreciate the arguments advanced by many people and the concerns raised by those on both sides of the House. However, if that was the case, one might have thought that the Labour Government should not have included high-cost area supplements or recruitment and retention premiums when they introduced Agenda for Change in 2004, and that they should not have abolished the right of the Secretary of State to direct foundation trusts in 2003. The Labour party gave those powers to employers, and I make it quite clear that they were right to do so. We now have to trust employers to exercise their judgment wisely and to use the skills and expertise of their non-executive directors to consider what is in the best interests of their patients. We have to recognise that they know what rates of pay are fair and necessary in their local communities.

The Opposition need to allow the system that they created to work, without the political interference and micro-management that typified their term in office. If they want to do something useful, they should encourage the trade unions—those that fund many of their Members of Parliament—to ensure a swift and successful conclusion to national negotiations. That will secure the Agenda for Change as a sustainable option for employers and staff alike. Above all, it will put patients first and foremost.

Regional Pay (NHS)

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 7th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Andy Burnham]

No, I will make some progress.

Breaking national pay is what the Government want to do, and that springs from an entirely different philosophy from the one that forged the NHS in the first place. The Government are rejecting the “one NHS” approach, whereby hospitals collaborate and the unpredictable pressures of any health service are balanced across the system. Instead, they have a vision of hospitals as stand-alone small businesses, on their own in the marketplace, with no bail-outs and free to earn up to 49% of their income from the treatment of private patients, but—as we are seeing in south-east London—finding little mercy in a private-sector-style administration process if the sums do not add up. That is a very different vision of the NHS, and it is not one to which the British people have ever given their consent in a general election.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I will join the right hon. Gentleman in the Lobbies on one reasonable condition: he acknowledges that the last Labour Government did not just introduce regional pay in the Courts Service, but introduced flexibilities for foundation trusts which, through employment law, could result in detriment to NHS employees. If he acknowledges that and apologises for his introductory remarks, I will certainly join him in the Lobbies.

[Andy Burnham]

I partly welcome what the hon. Gentleman has said. I have already acknowledged the flexibilities, and mentioned that only one trust in England ever sought to make use of them, because it wanted to add to the national floor that we had introduced. The flexibilities were there and I support them, but we left office with a national pay system in place. I look forward to his support later this afternoon.

We have a new Secretary of State, but those who expect a change of direction look set to be disappointed. In his first major interview, he described his mission thus:

“I would like to be the person who safeguards Andrew Lansley’s legacy”.

That must qualify as the shortest suicide note in political history. We have Lansley-lite—more of the same—but, in fact, it may be worse.

Looking at the Secretary of State’s past speeches, I could find nothing that conveyed any passion, belief or commitment to the NHS. On the contrary, I was worried when I read that he tried to remove Danny Boyle’s NHS tribute from the opening ceremony of the Olympic games. He is also one of the co-authors of a right-wing pamphlet entitled “Direct Democracy”. He may remember that pamphlet. It said:

“Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain.”

Is that still the Secretary of State’s view? He has gone quiet now, has he not?

You will understand, Mr. Speaker, why NHS supporters get nervous about the intentions of this Secretary of State, but today he has a chance to calm those nerves. He can come to the Dispatch Box and send the clearest of messages to NHS trusts seeking to break from national pay. What he will learn about his job is that, if he says something with sufficient force, the NHS will respond.

The developing pay crisis in the NHS is the Secretary of State’s first real test, but so far he is failing it. As we reveal today, on his watch, the 20 NHS trusts that were threatening to break away in the south-west have become 32 NHS trusts across England. That is creating real worry for thousands of NHS staff and uncertainty for businesses, which have raised their concerns with the Chancellor. But what do we get from the Government today? A “do nothing” amendment expressing no view on the south-west issue, and inviting Government Members to sit on the fence and wait for the conclusions of the pay review body’s review. That will not do.

As the Government do nothing, national pay is being unpicked and the NHS is fragmenting before our eyes, but perhaps that is all part of the plan—it is nothing to do with them; it is all due to a local decision. The idea is to hide behind a review while national pay slowly and conveniently unravels, region by region, trust by trust. Staff facing the threat of a pay cut deserve some straight answers, but rather than getting a straight answer to the question “Does the Secretary of State support regional pay in the NHS or not?”, they are hearing contradictory statements from this shambolic Government. Not for the first time, the coalition is not speaking with one voice. I understand that the Liberal Democrat conference passed a motion opposing regional pay and that the Deputy Prime Minister was captured on film voting for it—although, as we know, being photographed making pledges does not make him more likely to keep them.

The Deputy Prime Minister has also made the following unambiguous statement:

“There is going to be no regional pay system. That is not going to happen.”

The trouble is that it is happening, under the Deputy Prime Minister’s nose and by the back door. Twenty NHS trusts in the south-west are openly defying the authority of the Deputy Prime Minister. Some 88,000 NHS staff are being affected by a unilateral drive to set a new going rate of NHS pay in the regions, which would be up to 15% lower than national “Agenda for Change” rates. The trusts are proposing to end overtime payments for night, weekend and bank holiday working, and to reduce holiday leave. They are also proposing to force staff to work longer shifts, and to cut sick pay rates drastically. That is no idle threat. The silence from Ministers is clearly emboldening them. Despite concerns raised here and elsewhere, they have built a fighting fund, set up a website, and appointed lawyers to make all this happen.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Devon) (Con)]

It is never pleasant not to be in complete concurrence and happy harmony with one’s own Front Bench, but I hope the Minister will not ignore the fact that, despite voicing concern about the Government’s position, I strongly deplore the Labour party’s behaviour in taking a position that can only be described as cynically opportunistic. It is simply untenable for the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) to contend that he can, like Pontius Pilot, take his hands off the situation and wash them clean of what is going on in the NHS in the south-west today.

It is precisely the implementation of the freedoms granted under the right hon. Gentleman’s stewardship that these consortia are operating. He is in exactly the same position as the householder who opens the door to the burglar, and then complains when he walks in and burgles the property. He opened the door with his changes. It was his policy that introduced flexibilities, and to suggest that he was blind to the probability that trusts would exploit it by introducing differentials in pay up and down the length of the country is not merely naive but wilful irresponsibility and will be judged by people listening to this debate. The people in the low-wage areas I have the honour and privilege to represent will not be fooled by the Labour party’s position.

On the other hand, it is perfectly fair to say that the introduction of regional pay in the NHS would be a retrograde and wrong step. The fact is that low-wage areas, such as those I represent, are already suffering: 26% of families and homes in Torridge are on the edge of poverty. Only two constituencies in Cornwall, an area that receives special help in the form of objective 1 money from the EU, are in a worse position than those in Torridge and West Devon.

[Andrew George]

I represent one of those constituencies. In view of the hon. and learned Gentleman’s comments about the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) and his criticism of regional pay—a stand I entirely agree with—would he acknowledge that the Conservatives voted in favour of the legislation that brought in foundation trusts and flexibilities, and does he regret that? I recognise, of course, that he was not in the House at the time.

[Mr Cox]

I do not believe that any party can take its hands off and claim to be not responsible for measures that allowed trusts to exploit the ability to drive down pay by forming such consortia. The Labour party cannot disavow responsibility, and neither, if it voted for it, can the Conservative party.

I want to say something about regional pay. I hope and I am sure that the Minister is listening. I have already written to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. In areas such as Torridge and West Devon—areas that depend on public sector pay to create the spending and buying power that puts at least some life into its economy—the concept that pay could be even lower than it is now is unconscionable and inconceivable to those of us who represent them. I hope that the Government will think again in this review. I am comforted by the Secretary of State’s words when he says that they are committed to national pay scales. I hope that those words can be counted on.

I, for one, could not support a measure that introduced regional pay as formal NHS policy, unless I was satisfied that there were sufficient safeguards for the low-wage areas I represent. People often associate rural areas such as Torridge and West Devon with prosperity, but that is a grossly inaccurate caricature. In Torridge, 26% of households are on the edge of poverty, wages are in the bottom 5% of all areas in the country, and West Devon is not far behind. It is simply inconceivable for me, as its representative, to agree to a proposition that would further depress incomes in those areas.

Having said that, it is clear that the NHS has to do something about the pay bill, which is 70% of its budget, and the only appropriate way of dealing with it is for the unions and all parties, including all political parties, to tackle it at a national level. I am disturbed that those national negotiations are apparently not taking place. I hope that the right hon. Member for Leigh will encourage the unions to take part in those discussions, because we all have to accept that there is a major national problem with the burden of the NHS pay bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley), a fellow member of the Health Committee. I endorse her comments. She, like many others, has emphasised the reason it is so important that the House rejects the concept of regional pay and urges unions and employers to accelerate the process in order to reach a speedy conclusion on national pay bargaining. This is a serious issue, and it deserves a serious response from all parties in the House. It should not become a subject to be kicked around the playground of an Opposition Day debate in an opportunistic manner, as has so often happened—before the election as well as after it, to be fair. A matter as serious as this should not be debated in that way.

I intervened on the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) to ask whether he would acknowledge that we are where we are today because of the freedoms the previous Government created for the cartel in the south-west, or in any other part of the country. We are aware that other trusts are looking closely at what is happening with that cartel. The previous Government should be applauded for introducing the “Agenda for Change” and attempting to introduce a rigorous and effective method for agreeing pay and conditions at national level, but they also legislated to introduce foundation trusts and the new freedoms that went with them. The Liberal Democrats opposed that legislation at the time.

[Andy Burnham]

rose—

[Andrew George]

I was going to go on to talk about employment law, but I am happy to give way to the right hon. Gentleman.

[Andy Burnham]

This subject has featured a lot in today’s debate. I would encourage the hon. Gentleman to go back to the speeches made by Ministers when that legislation was being introduced. They were clearly saying that there could be occasions when flexibility would be needed at the margins to deal with a particular short-term pressure or problem. Such an arrangement was used once, in respect of Southend, to put pay up. It is important to understand that there was no suggestion that pay could be reduced across the board in a co-ordinated, orchestrated move to undercut the national pay system that was being brought in at the same time. That argument has been put today, but it simply does not hold water.

[Andrew George]

That might have been the stated intention, but the effect is being seen through the cartel’s actions. What is happening is not the result of any coalition Government legislation; it is the result of an opportunity having been made available under employment law. This is not within the parameters of “Agenda for Change”. It is a result of the freedom given to foundation trusts to step outside those agreements and to use employment law to seize the opportunity of certain flexibilities, to the detriment of the employees in their pay. That might not have been the intention behind the legislation, but it has been the effect of it, whether the previous Government appreciated that or not.

If the right hon. Gentleman is really so concerned about this, and given the fact that he can now see the effects of his legislation being played out by the cartel in the south-west, perhaps the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Copeland (Mr Reed), will acknowledge, in summing up the debate, that that was not the intention behind the legislation. Will he, having noted what is now going on as a result of that legislation, commit to rescinding that element of it if Labour were to come to power, to put right the weaknesses of it? If so, we would know that Labour Members were genuine and sincere in their intent, and that they acknowledged that weakness, which they had not anticipated at the time but which is now being exploited.

I strongly support my hon. Friend the Member for Southport (John Pugh) and congratulate him on his characteristic breathtakingly brilliant contribution to the debate. He was most entertaining, and there was disappointment across the whole House when he resumed his seat without having used all the time available to him. He made many insightful comments about the situation we are in today, and the weaknesses of it.

I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) for pointing out the significant weaknesses in the legislation and the impact they are likely to have on NHS staff. I am pleased to see my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Stephen Gilbert) in the Chamber today. We are all aware that the Royal Cornwall Hospitals Trust’s involvement in the cartel is creating deep concern across Cornwall. The hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) made a telling intervention earlier when she said that Cornwall has some of the highest costs of living in the country, while perpetually being at the bottom of the earnings league table, pretty much since records began.

One of the drivers behind the problem is the cherry-picking in the NHS. The private sector is already offering the easiest procedures. A private provider in Cornwall carries out the easiest procedures for the fittest patients with low anaesthetic risk and those who are the least likely to suffer complications following orthopaedic procedures. It is now extending its services into areas such as cardiology, hernias, haemorrhoids and endoscopy. If any complications occur, it will simply pass the patient across to the Royal Cornwall Hospitals Trust to deal with any difficulties or emergencies. It therefore has no need to invest in all the facilities necessary to provide the kind of wrap-around service that we want the NHS to provide. The fact that such private sector companies are able to vary wages, terms and conditions for their staff is undermining the NHS. The foundation trusts are having to compete with those companies, and that is one of the pressures that is driving their agenda. All parties need to recognise that fact, and Ministers need to acknowledge that this continued cherry-picking by the private sector is fundamentally undermining the capacity and ability of the NHS to respond adequately.

We must also ask why we are in this situation in the south-west. In regard to resource allocation, only two years ago Cornwall was getting £56 million a year less than the Government said that it needed to provide the necessary services. If there is a significant gap between the funding actually provided for the local health community and the amount that the Government say is the target funding, it is no wonder that local trusts find themselves having to make extremely challenging decisions.

I urge the Under-Secretary of State for Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Central Suffolk and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter), when he winds up the debate, to acknowledge that resource allocation still needs to be addressed. Members of Parliament from across the south-west and I have arranged to hold a meeting with him on this matter, and I hope that it will take place soon so that we can have an opportunity properly to address the issues.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew George]

If the hon. Gentleman really believes that, and the motion does say that the Government should intervene, is he aware that his Government gave foundation trusts such freedoms that in fact the Government cannot intervene?

[Mr Bradshaw]

Of course they can.

[Andrew George]

They cannot.

[Mr Anderson]

Clearly, there are issues about foundation trusts, but the Government can do what they want—or they can as long as the Liberal Democrats help them. Tonight, however, the Liberal Democrats have a chance of stopping the Government doing what they want, by doing what their party wants, and what the people they represent want—by throwing out the proposal, and voting on the clear principle that national pay bargaining should happen in the national health service, and nothing should be done to undermine it, including supporting the amendment.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jeremy Hunt]

It will be a totally impartial and very thorough review. This is an extremely important decision, and that is why I asked the Independent Reconfiguration Panel to take the time that it needs to do the review properly; that is the least that the hon. Gentleman’s constituents would want.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

In order to get the Health and Social Care Act 2012 through this House, the Government gave explicit assurances that private companies could not cherry-pick the easiest procedures and patients, yet a recent letter from David Flory, the deputy chief executive of the NHS, back-pedals on the Government’s position, and shows that the Government are dependent purely on guidance. What can the Government do to put a bit of backbone back into that important policy?

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew George Excerpts

Tuesday 17th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I have the benefit of a review undertaken by Sir John Bell and his colleagues, which I accepted wholeheartedly. In particular, I immediately agreed with the recommendations, and we are implementing and funding recommendations for the establishment of centres across the NHS for genetic testing to support stratified medicine for cancer patients.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Further to the Secretary of State’s welcome response to the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy), and his comments yesterday on the issue of the south-west consortium in relation to pay reductions, will he apply the same attitude to pay and conditions, particularly backward or downward regradings and other detrimental changes to terms and conditions?

National Health Service

Andrew George Excerpts

Monday 16th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Andy Burnham]

At the heart of the defective legislation that the Government rammed through the House of Commons is an unresolved conflict of interest, in which commissioners can also be providers who can remove services from hospitals and then provide them themselves. Under pressure in the other place, the Government came up with a requirement for a statement of such interests, but without introducing any mechanism for enforcement to ensure that decisions in the NHS are being made for the right reasons. I fear that that conflict of interest will return to haunt the Government.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

The right hon. Gentleman knows that I share his critique of the Health and Social Care Act 2012. He mentioned the fact that civil servants had given him warnings and cautioned him about the consequences of his decisions during his time in office. Was he warned about the changes in regulations that have resulted in the decision of the south-west consortium to suggest changes to the terms and conditions and pay of staff in that area? That was a direct result of regulations brought in by his Government.

[Andy Burnham]

No, it was not. Agenda for Change was one of the proudest achievements of our Government, and we always staunchly defended national pay arrangements. The hon. Gentleman talks about warnings, but I have just read out the explicit warning that was given to the current Secretary of State that this was the wrong time to reorganise the NHS. It was unforgivable to proceed in those circumstances. This was the single most reckless gamble ever taken with the NHS, and patients and staff are already proving to be the biggest losers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Ealing, Southall (Mr Sharma), a fellow member of the Health Committee. He makes a strong case on behalf of his constituents, and one hopes that any reconfiguration will be evidence-based and, above all, based on clinical governance and clinical safety.

This is an important debate—indeed, we cannot debate the future of the NHS enough, because it concerns many Members and their constituents. It draws passion and a great deal of interest, because it affects everyone’s lives. I therefore congratulate the Opposition on giving us the opportunity to debate it this evening.

I apologise to the Minister of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Mr Burns), for not having heard his speech. I had to attend an urgent meeting with a Minister to discuss the closure of a Remploy factory in my constituency. My hon. Friend the Member for Southport (John Pugh) gave me a précis of the Minister’s wise remarks as best he could—without, of course, being able to convey fully his panache and oratorical dexterity. I understand that the Minister made a number of important remarks about one issue that I want to discuss, as a Member representing west Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly, which, apart from being the centre of the world, are in the far south-west. That issue is pay and conditions for staff. As I understand it, he emphasised the point that no such independent review of pay, conditions and the salaries of staff in such an area can proceed without the full involvement and support of the unions, and their engagement in the final decisions.

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

It is absolutely right that the trade unions should be involved, because this is an enormous issue, particularly for staff morale in the south-west. Does the hon. Gentleman not share my concern that thus far the consortium has shown no great desire to undertake that consultation in the south-west? That really has to change.

[Andrew George]

The hon. Lady makes an important point. Lezli Boswell, the chief executive of the Royal Cornwall Hospitals Trust, wrote to me on behalf of the consortium about concerns that have been raised, including by the unions, saying that once the national pay review has concluded under “Agenda for Change” it would then be appropriate, if it is at all appropriate, for any further local discussions to proceed. Without union involvement in the work of the consortium, I agree with the hon. Lady that the proposal is irrelevant and potentially disruptive and dangerous, given its impact on staff morale throughout the NHS in the south-west. My hon. Friends will be listening closely to this debate, and to the concerns that have been raised by many Members and, indeed, by staff across the south-west about the consequences for staff morale and the impact on NHS services. I certainly hope that the Secretary of State will address those issues when he concludes the debate.

A key issue is one that dare not speak its name—it affected staff morale under the previous Government as well—but it is the increasing pressure on front-line NHS staff. The staffing levels at the coal face have never been sufficient to provide a safe staff to patient ratio. Many people have been critical of nursing and care standards in the NHS, but they often overlook staffing ratios.

I have also expressed concerns about the out-of-hours service in Cornwall—I know that we will not have time to discuss that—and the Care Quality Commission will produce a report as a result of those concerns, which were also voiced by the hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton).

On pay for staff in the south-west, the chief executive of the Royal Cornwall Hospitals Trust said to me in a letter:

“In recent years NHS organisations have largely exhausted other avenues of potential cost-saving (including reducing reliance on bank or agency staff and implementing service improvement initiatives). Monitor…has also estimated that NHS organisations with a turnover of around £200m will need to produce savings of around £9m a year for each year until 2016/17 to remain in financial health.”

She goes on to say that the consortium, which consists of 20 organisations in the south-west,

“is looking at how pay costs may be reduced, whilst maintaining a transparent and fair system that is better able to reward high performance, incentivise the workforce and support the continued delivery of high quality healthcare.”

Does the Secretary of State agree with that, and how does he intend that that should proceed? How will he protect staff and staff morale, because the consequences will, I fear, derail national negotiations on “Agenda for Change” and drive down pay and morale, particularly in an area of very low wages? I hope that he is listening.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

rose—

Adult Social Care

Andrew George Excerpts

Monday 16th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Paul Burstow]

I will come on to give a specific figure in a moment, so the right hon. Gentleman will have to be patient.

I wanted to pick up again on the point about the White Paper ruling out crude contracting by the minute—a culture of clock-watching which has been allowed to grow up for years in too many places and which is not good for dignity, respect or quality. Under the Labour Government there were years and years of delay and dither when it came to addressing the quality of care workers and health care assistants. This Government are putting in place a code of conduct and national minimum training standards, and will double the number of people able to access apprenticeships in the care sector to 100,000.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his remarks. I hope I am not taking him back too far, but given that he is talking about the integration of services, particularly among authorities, and implying the portability of assessments for those with care packages, will he comment on the extent to which the Local Government Association has approved and supported the proposals in the Government’s White Paper?

[Paul Burstow]

On the proposals for portability of assessment and guaranteed continuity of care, the LGA is certainly aware and has been engaged in the consultations that we undertook last year as part of our preparations for the White Paper. It did not, of course, negotiate line by line the text of the White Paper, but it has the opportunity, as does everyone else, to participate now in the scrutiny of the draft Bill that we introduced. I hope the LGA will do so. We wish to engage with the LGA on these issues.

Integration is an important part of these reforms. Too often, people feel bounced around the system. What we do for the first time in the White Paper is set out a number of important steps towards more integration of the two existing systems.

NHS Annual Report and Care Objectives

Andrew George Excerpts

Wednesday 4th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point, because MORI conducted an independent survey last December after the survey conducted on behalf of the King’s Fund. The survey said that 70% of people were satisfied with the running of the NHS; 77% agreed that their local NHS provided a good service; and 73% agreed that England had one of the best national health services in the world—the highest level ever recorded in that survey.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I am pleased and reassured by the comments from the Secretary of State on outcomes, which he said were among the best in the world. In view of that, would he perhaps reconsider whether it is wise to press ahead with such disruptive and damaging reforms?

[Mr Lansley]

One reason why the NHS continues to deliver such significant improvements in performance is that through the transition, we are increasing clinical leadership, which will make an important, positive difference, and can already be shown to have done so. For example, we are managing patients more effectively in the community, and reducing reliance on acute admission to hospital. The number of emergency admissions to hospital in the year just ended went down, which is a strong basis on which to develop services in future, and that is happening not least because of leadership in the primary care community. I hope that my hon. Friend from Cornwall, along with other Members, supports the assumption of clinical leadership through clinical commissioning groups by those clinicians.