Universal Credit and Child Tax Credit: Two-child Limit

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Kate Green

Tuesday 27th November 2018 Westminster Hall

[Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. Does she agree that this obscene policy is fuelled by the Government’s abolition of the child poverty target, which would have compelled them to look at such policies and realise that they could not possibly be compatible with such a target?

[Alison Thewliss]

Absolutely. I will return to the issue of the policy’s objectives and how unmeetable they are, given the child poverty that will result from the policy.

It is absolutely clear that nothing in the policy fits with the Government’s objective of giving people a more stable family life. In fact, it plunges families further into uncertainty and crisis, and puts them under tremendous strain.

It is also clear that it will be children who lose out as a result of this policy. It is estimated that this policy will affect—in time, when transitional protections run out—around 3 million children. The Church of England estimates that in my constituency alone 1,600 families and 5,500 children will be affected, which amounts to 36% of the children there. I cannot begin to say what impact this policy will have on the health, education and life chances of those young people.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kate Green]

rose—

[Alison Thewliss]

I am coming to the end of my remarks; I am sure that Members will get in later with what they want to say.

All of this policy is illogical and bad for the economy. In other parts of my casework, I see working people being denied leave to remain with their families. I see EU nationals being scunnered and moving away from the country that they had called home, due to this UK Tory Government’s Brexit shambles. On DWP policy, I see people being discouraged—actively discouraged—from having children. Who will participate in the labour market in the future? Having children is an economic good. Who will look after the Minister and his family when he is old and in need of care? The UK Government should wise up to the demographic time bomb they are creating with this policy and so many other policies that make no sense. The “Unhappy Birthday!” report produced by End Child Poverty, the Child Poverty Action Group and the Church of England states:

“If you set out to design a policy that was targeted to increase child poverty, then you could not do much better than the two-child limit.”

I would like to know what assessment the Minister has made, other than the numbers released in April, of the impact of the two-child cap on all the areas I have mentioned in my speech—not just one or two of them, but all of them—because there are still too many flaws in the two-child cap, as I have laid out, and as I am sure other Members will wish to. I want to know how he can roll this policy out without that assessment having been done. The assessment has been left to the third sector, the Church—as the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) pointed out—and to so many other organisations. The Government have not taken on this work; they have left it to others to do, which is absolutely unacceptable. They need to know what the impact of their policies will be on the ordinary people we represent.

I also want the Minister to explain why he is pressing ahead with extending this policy to all families come February next year, because, on the basis of this policy, people could not reasonably have planned the children that they have had. It is completely unreasonable to expect somebody in good times to think, “Perhaps six or seven years after I have had my child, I might—might—be made unemployed and I might need to claim universal credit.” That would not be in their head; that is not how people make decisions about their families. It is an absolutely flawed notion that people can do that. I want the Minister to pause and reflect, and to tell us that he can pause the policy, stop it rolling out further and end it for good.

British Citizenship Fees: Children

Debate between Alison Thewliss and Kate Green

Tuesday 4th September 2018 Westminster Hall

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Hollobone.

Week in, week out, at surgeries, I see the impact of the UK Government’s hostile environment on the lives of the people I represent, and one of the cruellest things about that is how it affects children whose parents either cannot work or are not allowed to work, and have no access to public funds. It is the children who lose out in those circumstances. If a child does not have citizenship they are subject to most of the same frustrating and arbitrary rules as adults, some examples of which I will discuss. The hostile environment aims to reduce immigration by making life in the UK so difficult for people that they simply give up and go back to their original country. Children, however, do not have that choice, and it is staggering that the Government put such high barriers in the way of children’s security and future prospects. The environment also limits children’s opportunities. I have had cases in my constituency of children in youth clubs or schools wanting to go on trips but not having the right under citizenship to do so. They cannot get a passport and cannot travel and are therefore missing out on educational opportunities from which they would benefit hugely. It is also cruel for them to see all their friends going away and not being allowed to participate on the same basis because their family cannot afford the fee.

The fee has escalated, mirroring the escalation in the adult fee, but this is an example of migrant children being treated the same as adults in a way that is borderline discrimination. We do not treat children who are British citizens exactly as we treat adults, so why the children of migrants? Children would struggle to get the money from their paper round, lemonade stall or any other means of fundraising. The Home Office is charging vulnerable children nearly three times the actual cost of the process. The children have a right in law to be registered as British citizens, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Stuart C. McDonald) outlined, so making a profit is simply not acceptable. Charging children an excessive amount for something they are fully entitled to under the laws set by this Parliament is a policy the Home Office should be ashamed of. The Secretary of State’s obligation to provide the framework to enable the will of this Parliament in recognising citizenship is long overdue.

There is also discrimination regarding the Government’s intended charges for EU nationals’ settled status, for which there is recognition that adults and children should be treated differently—the fee will be £65 for adults and £32.50 for children. There is a whole lot of resentment among many communities that EU nationals are being charged a different fee from non-EU nationals, which is stoking up problems for the future, because non-EU nationals seeking citizenship for their children are asking, “Why do we have to pay more? Is our contribution not valued as much? Is what we have to offer this country not valued as much?” I urge the Minister to consider the huge disparity in the fees, because it is causing an awful lot of resentment in communities.

The impact assessment refers to the fee being set above the cost of administration to reflect the benefit that users get from the system of migration, but that is entirely the wrong attitude. The child is not having additional benefits conferred by the Secretary of State; they are having their pre-existing right recognised. Characterising what should be viewed as a recognition of a right as the provision of a privilege has allowed the Home Office to apply the fee extremely rigidly. It is currently payable regardless of the child’s situation and there is no practical discretion to waive it in exceptional circumstances. That means, as we heard earlier, that children in the care of a local authority still need to come up with the amount. The local authority can pay, effectively constituting a transfer from local government funds to the UK Government and removing money that would otherwise be spent on public services.

[Kate Green]

The hon. Lady raises the issue of fees under the new settled status scheme for EU nationals. Does she agree that applying the adult fee to those aged over 16 is completely incompatible with our understanding of what constitutes a child in every other legal context?

[Alison Thewliss]

I agree. This system of immigration is beset with contradictions and unfairness, and really needs a root-and-branch review to ensure that everyone gets a fair deal—my experience at my surgeries is that everyone certainly does not. It is also a hugely expensive system, as we have heard. Perhaps parents will prioritise applying for their own citizenship so that they can work and provide an income for their children—children who are entitled but whose parents cannot afford to access that entitlement—therefore impinging on children’s other rights and other household needs. I see many families, particularly those affected by the paragraph 322(5) highly skilled migrants situation, getting into huge amounts of debt by paying for lawyers and going through a complex, expensive and lengthy process, while all the time not being able to work or claim any other entitlements. That is hugely damaging to children, who are growing up in poverty because the Home Office’s immigration policies and the way in which it goes about its business put those families at such a detriment for such a long time.