Oral Answers to Questions

Alison Seabeck Excerpts

Thursday 18th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

As I said earlier, electrification brings many advantages to the rail network, so what my hon. Friend asks for will be delivered by electrification. The plans we have put forward are the most ambitious put forward by any Government.

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

South-west MPs met yesterday to discuss the pause in the greater western franchise. One of the concerns raised was the impact of the current ring-fenced electrification programme, which had been built into people’s bid plans. The issue was whether we would in fact see a worse service as a result of those electrification plans, as we have been unable to take the franchise bid forward and there are new timetables because of the works required for electrification.

[Mr McLoughlin]

As with any major infrastructure project, there will be delays while that is taken forward, but ultimately there will be a far better service.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jo Swinson]

I can certainly give that reassurance. The approach that we are taking through the Lord Davies review—a target of 25% on boards by 2015—is showing itself to be successful. In fact, we are ahead of schedule in hitting that target. Our approach is showing itself to be successful and the right one to take, and we will resist the EU calls for quotas.

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

The hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom) talked about the Front-Bench team today, but there are only four women in the Cabinet and 23 across Government. Does the Minister accept that the private companies out there on whose boards we want to see more women will not see a Government who are leading by example? It is simply not good enough.

[Jo Swinson]

Clearly a range of new women joined the Government in the latest reshuffle. There is a wealth of talent among the women MPs on the coalition Benches, and I am sure that in future that will result in additional women joining the Government.

Mobility Scooter Safety

Alison Seabeck Excerpts

Wednesday 21st March 2012 Westminster Hall

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

It is good to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mrs Main. Given that this is, I trust, a non-contentious issue, I hope that you will not be called to action.

Like many hon. Members, I have heard complaints and concerns about the design and safety of mobility scooters on the road, and the risks posed to those who use them and to other road users. Only yesterday, the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Mr Burley) proposed a ten-minute rule Bill to update and clarify the Road Traffic Act 1988 on the use of powered wheelchairs, and his speech in the main Chamber also touched on mobility scooters.

I secured this debate after being contacted by one of my constituents about the design failing of his scooter, and following a meeting that I held with a Plymouth-based organisation called Scoot-A-Long. Both meetings forcefully flagged up significant failings in the system that cut across a number of Departments. I therefore tabled questions and wrote letters to the Departments of Health and for Transport, but the responses have not satisfied me or my constituents.

I would like to mention Mr Brian Fleming and describe his experiences, which have angered and frustrated him. He has been frustrated because, despite every attempt to highlight the problems, no one appears to be listening and he worries, as do I, that at some point a fatality will occur. He has been dedicated to raising awareness about the safety of these vehicles, and he has tried to interest programmes such as “Panorama” in his story.

Let us start at the beginning. What do we know about accidents involving mobility scooters? The answer is virtually nothing, and the full recording of incidents on the road that involve mobility scooters is unlikely to start before 2013. We are also not sure how and where off-road incidents take place, and whether they are ever likely to be recorded.

Recently, there was the tragic death at Bodmin in Cornwall of an elderly gentleman, Mr Moore, whose scooter flipped over on a steep slope. Because of the interest generated by this debate, Thompsons solicitors contacted me to provide a couple more examples of incidents that were linked to mobility scooters or motorised wheelchairs, which are known legally as invalidity carriages—that definition probably ought to be updated. A 79-year-old woman was left with serious injuries after a van collided with her mobility scooter in Sunderland. One claimant was shopping in Newcastle, but as she queued up a mobility scooter suddenly came towards her, knocking her to the floor. She suffered serious damage—a broken hip—and still has difficulty walking. Those are just a few examples, but we need to reduce the risk of such accidents and tragedies happening by increasing our knowledge of where and how they occur.

What do we know about the safety standards applied to imported mobility scooters? Again, not a lot. The Department for Transport has not commissioned safety checks on any vehicle model, and the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency—the MHRA—which, according to the Department, is responsible for regulation in that area, does not commission safety checks on mobility scooters before their placement in the market. One has to ask, why not?

I find that astonishing. Would we allow a medicine to enter the market without it reaching a certain standard? No, we would not. Would we allow a car to go on the road without it reaching a certain standard? No. Why, then, is a mobility scooter allowed to go anywhere without a check, particularly when, on occasion, they are used by people who have never driven a car, perhaps have no road awareness and who may be frail? We expect people who drive cars on the road to take a driving test, yet a significant number of people are using a scooter on the roads with little or no road knowledge, other than as a pedestrian. I will return to that point.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. There is an active group in my constituency that makes mobility scooters available, and it has noted the issues that she seeks to address. A lot of police forces have also tried to emphasise the need for safety, and for people to have experience and to take advice when using mobility scooters. Does she feel that the time for the police to give advice, as with The Highway Code, is long overdue and that introducing registration will secure safety for everyone?

[Alison Seabeck]

The hon. Gentleman is entirely right. A lot of good work is being done by various police authorities and other organisations to try to raise safety awareness. I will return to that point.

There is growing pressure to have a Minister with responsibility for older people, and such a person might be responsible for drawing these issues together—putting them in one place—and considering whether we need to regulate further, or indeed to legislate. The Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety called for such a post to be created, and there is no doubt that the safety of mobility vehicles was one reason behind that request.

Let me return to Mr Fleming. He is getting on in years—I will not say how old he is—but he has had a distinguished career. He has a degree of engineering knowledge, and he therefore speaks with some authority on the workings of his scooter. He contacted me because he has a Pride Colt 8, which, I understand, the MHRA has received complaints about. Indeed, one Pride Colt 8 was involved in an accident in Staffordshire, and the investigating police officer got in touch with me. He wanted to know what I knew about that vehicle, given the parliamentary questions that I had tabled. That cannot be right: police officers should not need to ring a Member of Parliament who happens to have tabled some questions to seek out information on the background and mechanical failings of a particular vehicle. Such information should be available elsewhere.

The Pride Colt 8 owned by Mr Fleming had a series of failings. Its electric autobrake failed, the head console was affected by corrosion and there was a catastrophic failure of the drive, leading to the product being recalled—need I go on? There is a long list of complaints, and a frankly unsatisfactory response from the manufacturer. The scooter does not appear to be fit for purpose and it can stop without warning. It passes basic requirements for use on the pavement, although not the road, yet it is being used by some on the roads.

[Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab)]

I warmly congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate about something that affects a growing number of people in our society, either as scooter users or as their fellow pedestrians and road users. Does she agree that we need to set the discussion in the wider context of ensuring that the design of pavements and lowered pavements takes account of the needs of scooter users, so that they are not left in dangerous situations or forced to cross the road? I have been to look at certain locations in my constituency with users of mobility scooters.

[Alison Seabeck]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely correct, and I will touch on the problems faced by local authorities. His comments reinforce concerns that I have heard from local authorities, as well as from users of mobility scooters.

[Jim Shannon]

One point that I have been made aware of concerns the advertising of mobility scooters. The adverts show an almost deluxe mobility scooter that can go anywhere. I do not know whether the hon. Lady has seen the adverts, but the scooters seem to be able to go through muck and snow, and go anywhere, almost like a four-wheel-drive mobility scooter. Does she agree that adverts ought to show what is achievable?

[Alison Seabeck]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I think that between him and my right hon. Friend the Member for Oxford East (Mr Smith), my speech has been covered. The hon. Gentleman’s point is correct: the adverts suggest that some of these vehicles are all-singing and all-dancing. Indeed, there are individuals who soup up their scooters, for whatever reason, but that is clearly a separate issue.

Many imported vehicles are not legal on our highways, yet that is where they are innocently being used by the purchasers. In addition, there is no requirement for insurance. I would welcome the Minister’s view on why that is. Is it because of the cost factor? How many vehicles have been prevented from reaching the market because of design flaws or other concerns? What powers do local trading standards officers have in such circumstances, and are they being encouraged to use them? Mr Fleming feels that he has been going round in circles locally, as one organisation passes responsibility to another.

The Pride Colt 8 has no width-indicating lights for night use and no brake lights, so right hon. and hon. Members will understand the obvious risks involved should these scooters be taken on to the highway. Many owners of the scooters say that they are forced to use the roads because local councils have not created a safe pavement environment for them. We heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for Oxford East on exactly that point. Clearly, with council budgets being cut, they are very unlikely to be able to commit significant spending to this area, however desirable.

Scoot-A-Long supports disabled people to support themselves in getting out and about to places such as Dartmoor and even taking scooters on to Dartmoor. It also runs training courses and has expressed to me serious concerns about the lack of training available generally and about the quality of some scooters. I tried one of them out, and I have to say that the top speed of 8 mph is extremely fast. The limit on pavements is 4 mph, but untrained people do not know that. John Seamons, an excellent chap from Scoot-A-Long, expressed concerns to me about the way mobility scooters are sold to the public. Some highly reputable companies will ensure that the scooter size is correct for the user and that training is offered, but others are interested simply in a quick sale. Anecdotally, there are people who buy scooters and then are far too scared to use them.

Others adapt scooters in interesting ways. I heard yesterday from a person in Stevenage who had been out shopping when he suddenly heard “Land of Hope and Glory” playing. He turned round to see a gentleman on a mobility scooter who was having trouble reversing. The gentleman on the scooter smiled at him and said, “It’s all right. It helps me because it plays when I’ve reversed into something.” That is not really how it is supposed to work. People need support and training. Although that is an amusing story, it makes a serious point.

There are some excellent examples of organisations attempting to ensure that good advice is given. Norfolk constabulary—the police force—is one of many organisations trying to do good work. It is working alongside Halfords and is one organisation whose advice, as part of its Safe Scoot campaign, is extremely thorough and easy to follow. It encourages safety awareness courses, but those are not compulsory. How many mobility scooter users have read The Highway Code? They might have passed their driving test decades ago, when the rules were slightly different. The Highway Code also applies to people who intend to use scooters on the pavements, but I imagine that very few scooter users have gone to the trouble of reading it. How many users understand the different issues raised by using a mobility scooter in icy conditions or that wearing reflective clothing is a good idea? How many users know that they should not be in bus lanes?

I know that the Minister is aware of the issues that I am raising, but I hope he agrees that with an ageing population action must be taken to ensure that standards are maintained with regard to the safety of these vehicles and that some basic training should be undertaken by all users. It is also important that, if scooters are sold to people who have never driven and they intend to use them on the road, training is compulsory. I am not sure whether they should even be on the road if they have not passed the driving test.

We also need to be aware that younger, able-bodied people are buying mobility scooters. Recently, one was seen cruising along the seafront at a Devon resort—the young man driving it had his golf clubs on the back. We see young women who appear to be able-bodied when they get on and off their scooters using them to do the shopping. A scooter may be an alternative to a small car in some circumstances—a much cheaper alternative, because people do not have to pay all the additional road taxes and so on—but that could spiral out of control if we do not get a grip on it.

What action can the Government take to close some of the loopholes? What action will they take to ensure that the products that come to market are safe and fit for purpose, and have been checked? That will require cross-departmental working. What action will be taken to ensure that records are kept of accidents? I suppose I am asking for a coherent, cross-departmental strategy, across the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, the DFT and the Department of Health, pulling together all the safety issues to ensure that proper guidance is always issued and that vehicles cannot be imported for sale in the UK without the designs being checked and being safe.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)]

I thank the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck) for securing this debate on an important matter that is of increasing interest to many people—mobility vehicle safety. She referred to the ten-minute rule Bill proposed yesterday by my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase (Mr Burley). She will have noticed that he was arguing that, because these vehicles are a lifeline for many people, we should deregulate to some degree to give them the mobility and independence that we would agree in principle they should have. She argues that they should be safe and that we should take steps to ensure that people are properly trained to use them; everyone would agree with that in principle as well. That is the nub of the problem: both perspectives are valid, but they point in different directions. The Department for Transport is trying to deal with that problem, which is quite complicated, but let me try to give the hon. Lady reassurance about the steps we are taking to try to resolve it.

Officially, the UK has more than 10 million disabled people and our population is increasingly ageing, so mobility vehicles will in future have an even more important role to play in enabling disabled people to live independent lives. It is part of our policy, as it was the previous Government’s, to seek to improve access and safety for all people, including disabled and older people, to help to enhance their quality of life. We consider the issue of mobility scooters in that context.

By the way, if the hon. Lady looks at my written ministerial statement of 1 March, she will see that I indicated our intention to replace the legal term “invalid carriage” as soon as possible. Unfortunately, it is in primary legislation, so we will need a slot to deal with it, but we fully accept that it is an inappropriate term in this day and age.

Our aim is to balance the mobility needs of disabled people with their safety and that of others. The previous Government consulted formally in 2010, and on 1 March this year I published the Government response to that consultation. Let me take first the safety of particular scooter models that are available to buy.

The position on design standards for mobility vehicles sold in the UK is that before a manufacturer can offer a vehicle for sale, it must meet EU manufacturing standards. To obtain that mark in the UK, a manufacturer must first submit a technical file relating to the product to the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency. On imports, there is nothing to stop someone buying a mobility scooter from another country over the internet without taking advice. If the vehicles do not conform to European standards, trading standards officers have the authority to seize them, but I cannot imagine that that happens very often in practice. I think that many trading standards officers, if they came across such a vehicle, would be very reluctant to seize someone’s lifeline—the vehicle necessary for them to get from A to B.

There are challenges, but the straight answer to the hon. Lady’s question is that someone can bypass the regulations if they buy on the internet, and trading standards officers have the power to deal with that when they come across such vehicles. Part of the problem is that vehicles are not always bought from reputable dealers. They are often bought on the internet, or second hand, or by some other means where the control mechanism is not in place.

[Alison Seabeck]

There is a case for information to be passed on by GPs—who may recommend a vehicle to a patient—pensioners’ groups and Age Concern to ensure that proper advice is going out to those who are considering buying mobility scooters. It is about information getting to people before they take the step of going to the internet or somewhere else to buy such a vehicle.

[Norman Baker]

I agree that information is important, and I will come on to what we are doing, but it may not be a complete panacea.

One of the main concerns about the carriage of scooters on public transport is whether or not they can be safely secured. The design of the scooter may mean that it does not have appropriate anchorage points, so there is a danger that it may tip up and cause injury. There are international standards to which manufacturers can refer to determine how to secure wheelchairs and their occupants when travelling in a vehicle, but there are no such standards for mobility scooters. That is one of the issues that I want operators and manufacturers to consider when it comes to improving the design of scooters for carriage on public transport.

There are also concerns among public transport operators that people are being sold scooters that are inappropriate for public transport and yet they have an expectation that they can use them. There is a space designed for wheelchairs and some scooters will necessarily be designed at a level above that, so transport operators can legitimately say, “This vehicle is unsuitable for carriage on light rail, tram, train or bus.” I want to ensure that we get some consistency of approach from operators and some clarity for members of the public as to which vehicles can and cannot be carried on public transport. If we end up with vehicles that are heavier and bigger and do what my hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase argued for yesterday, it will benefit users when they take them on the road, but not when they want to take them on public transport. These are very complicated issues to get right.

As the hon. Lady said, there are also safety concerns about the use of mobility scooters. There are reports of people being injured by them when they are used on pavements, and of users being hit by other vehicles when they are used on the road. Unfortunately, no accident statistics are available to demonstrate that the use of mobility vehicles represents a major public safety problem—the evidence is all anecdotal. However, I have raised the matter, and from 2013 the police will be able to record—I hope they do—whether a mobility vehicle has been involved in an accident on the public highway. Thus we will begin to gather more reputable and objective information than we have at the moment.

I recognise the concerns, however, which is why, in my written ministerial statement of 1 March, I indicated that I do not intend to change the maximum permitted speed of mobility vehicles. I agree that 8 mph does not sound very fast, but it certainly is fast on one of those scooters. I tried one out myself when I went to a scooter place in Rochford, and I was taken aback by its acceleration and speed—and I am someone who has been driving on the roads for some 30 years. I was also rather taken aback by the instability of the vehicle. I believe it is absolutely right not to increase their maximum speed. It is possible that some vehicles might be bought on the internet, without the controls of reputable dealers in this country, but the concerns about the reduced stability of vehicles at speed, and the more serious consequences of any collision if higher speeds are permitted, are such that I will not be increasing the speed at which those vehicles are permitted to travel.

I have also announced that there will be no change to the minimum age for using a class 3 vehicle. There would be safety concerns if a child under 14 years were permitted to take a vehicle on to the public carriageway. However, I have to balance that judgment against the legitimate health and independence benefits that such a vehicle can bring—these are difficult judgments to make—so I have decided to permit class 2 powered vehicles, which are restricted to the pavement, to weigh up to 150 kg unladen in order to help children with more acute clinical needs to have more equipment on their chairs. For reasons of public safety, I have also decided that the use of two-person mobility scooters should not be allowed on the public highway. Two-person scooters are likely to be heavier than the maximum legal weight limit—150 kg for class 3 vehicles. Some two-person models also exceed the maximum speed limit of 8 mph.

The consultation in 2010 considered whether the law is adequate or whether there should be a new means of tackling misuse of these vehicles. I have concluded that no new legislation is required—not even to make these vehicles more conspicuous—but I have asked officials to examine how current legislation could be better enforced. That does not mean that we are looking to prosecute more mobility scooter users. The laws relating to mobility vehicles are not the same as road traffic laws that apply to motor vehicles, but there is legislation dating from Victorian times that can be used to control reckless driving and we want this to be more widely publicised and better understood.

Issues remain around insurance, eyesight tests and training, which brings us on to the question of what we can do to help people who use these vehicles. There is currently no mandatory requirement to insure vehicles, although we strongly recommend that individuals take out insurance voluntarily, or to have eyesight tests, although my Department has for many years advised that people should be able to read a number plate at a distance of 40 feet. I want to look at how the test can be made more practical so that there is much greater take up. I have concluded that mandatory eyesight testing is not necessary for users of class 2 scooters, which are restricted to the pavement, but I am clear that the position in respect of class 3 scooters requires further consideration. I am talking about the vehicles that can travel at 8 mph as opposed to 4 mph and that can be allowed on the highway.

The consultation responses in 2010 emphasised real concerns that mandatory insurance and training could unfairly penalise a particularly vulnerable section of the community. However, we want to find ways to achieve greater take-up of insurance and training, which is why I have been talking to key stakeholders. I held a meeting only yesterday with the trade association, vehicle training organisations, the insurance industry and disabled charities and organisations to review the available evidence and options relating to insurance and the use of specialist training providers. My written statement on 1 March deliberately left open the questions of eyesight testing, insurance and training because I wanted to take advice from everyone concerned, including users, disabled charities and road safety people to try to get to a position that everybody finds comfortable. It was a useful meeting, and my officials have taken away the comments and will use them to take the next stage forward. As the hon. Lady rightly said, it would be helpful if more training was available.

Norfolk constabulary was represented at the meeting yesterday. The hon. Lady mentioned that county, where some really good work has been done—indeed I was in Norwich before coming to this debate. We can learn from Norfolk’s example. The trouble with Norfolk is not that it is not doing the right thing—it is—but that its practice is not emulated everywhere. We need to find a way of rolling that practice out right across England and Wales—I hope that the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) will forgive me, but England and Wales are my responsibility—to ensure that that training is available more widely. That is one of the issues that we are trying to address sensibly for the future.

There are clearly issues about basic training and about the safety of these vehicles, particularly ones that have slipped in under the net and do not meet European Union standards. I am not able to answer the hon. Lady’s question about whether models have been stopped from being brought into the country, but I will raise the matter with MHRA. Cross-departmental work on the issue is under way. We have been in touch with the Department of Health, and if she was in the Chamber yesterday, she will have seen that the Minister for Disabled People from the Department for Work and Pensions was with me on the Treasury Bench to listen to the ten-minute rule Bill. We are trying to work collaboratively across Departments.

[Alison Seabeck]

I acknowledge the work that is going on with all the groups that the Minister has mentioned, but use of these vehicles by people who are neither elderly nor disabled is increasing, and that is very worrying.

[Norman Baker]

That is a relatively new issue. I have not yet come across anyone going to play golf in a mobility scooter, although I have no doubt that it does happen; nor have I come across scooters that play “Land of Hope and Glory”. I am sure that whoever composed that particular tune did not have reversible scooters in mind. None the less, I take the hon. Lady’s word for it. If these scooters are now being used by groups for whom they are not designed, particularly if people are using them to avoid the requirements of road traffic legislation for other vehicles, that is a serious matter that I will take away to consider.

I hope that I have managed to convince the hon. Lady of two things: first, that we are seized of the need to make progress and we are trying to do so in a constructive and consensual way; and secondly, that this is not an easy issue. There are conflicting demands on us from different directions. Coming up with an answer that meets everybody’s aspirations will be difficult, but we will try.

Question put and agreed to.

Cycling

Alison Seabeck Excerpts

Thursday 23rd February 2012 Westminster Hall

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

This has been an interesting and important debate, and I commend the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert), and The Times, for running such a strong campaign and highlighting the dangers that are faced by cyclists every day on our streets, as exemplified by the horrific accident of The Times reporter. Let me emphasise the comments that have been made about her recovery.

Many of the issues raised cut across Departments, and it is important to send a message, perhaps through the Minister, about the need for those Departments to work together—I will return to that point. One issue that Members have raised repeatedly during the debate concerns sentencing policy and the fact that someone who goes out in their car or lorry and uses it irresponsibly as a lethal weapon may not be treated in the same way as someone who goes out with a club in their back pocket and damages another individual. We need to look at the way that courts view drivers who have behaved irresponsibly.

I would describe myself as a lapsed cyclist. My bike hangs, rather forlornly, in the cycle shed close to my London flat, awaiting reuse. Why am I a lapsed cyclist? Well, I have had a couple of near misses on London roads—a number of other Members have already commented on their experiences. My experience involved a classic problem for a cyclist. I was at a junction and a car wanted to turn left. Although I was in my bright yellow fluorescent top, it was completely oblivious of me and winged in front of me. I was lucky; I suffered no major injuries but only came off my bike. The motorist, however, carried on, completely oblivious to the fact that they had left a cyclist slammed into the railings.

My constituency in Plymouth is extraordinarily hilly—the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile) has touched on that—and it is not good for cyclists’ knees. Oddly, however, that is not the reason why people do not cycle in Plymouth as much as they could.

[Mr Bradshaw]

One issue that has not yet been raised in the debate concerns the importance of cyclists such as my hon. Friend claiming their road space. The problem seems to be that people, especially women cyclists, do not have the confidence to claim the road space that they deserve, even though doing so would make them much safer. People should get out into the road and give themselves plenty of space away from parked vehicles. If they do that, vehicles that are turning left will be more likely to see them.

[Alison Seabeck]

My right hon. Friend makes a good point, drawing on his cycling experience. Some roads have junction spaces in front of the cars where cyclists can go, which makes the experience much safer.

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

I will be brief. My hon. Friend has a proud record of working closely with local government. May I draw her attention to the London borough of Ealing? It has just renegotiated its refuse contract, and one condition is that every refuse collection lorry must have triple mirrors, which allows it complete visibility, and shielded rear wheels so that there is none of the horror of people falling under wheels and getting chewed up. That is something that can be done right now with our local councils. One of the good things—probably the only good thing—about part-privatisation is that it provides an opportunity for contracts to be renegotiated.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison Seabeck]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right and I will touch on safety around lorries and larger vehicles later in my remarks.

Apart from the hills, one reason that people in Plymouth do not cycle much concerns the way they interact with traffic. The national campaign will no doubt help mobilise ideas about better safety and help raise awareness. Let me describe briefly what is happening in my constituency. Plymouth city council has produced a cycling leaflet which is both myth busting and promotes the health benefits of cycling. The hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport and I will continue to maintain pressure on the council on issues such as potholes close to the kerb, which is a problem that affected one of my 70-year-old constituents. I knocked on her door and when she opened it I saw that she was badly bruised. She told me that she had been out on her racing bike and hit a pothole. People of all ages cycle, but if someone like my constituent takes a tumble, it can be more serious.

We are all, of course, aware of the health benefits of cycling, but we must ensure that those benefits outweigh the dangers and hazards and mean that people like me can go out and cycle with confidence. We have to do more to develop safe cycle routes in Plymouth, and the local Labour party is keen to be more proactive in that area. Plymouth has a good history of road safety—Leslie Hore-Belisha, one of my predecessors, was responsible for the Belisha beacon on pedestrian crossings.

I have also been impressed by the local Plymouth cycling campaign run by my constituents. They are aware of the bad press that cyclists can receive for inconsiderate riding in and around the city centre, and they have suggested a city centre cycling code. They strongly promote helmets, high visibility jackets, lights and a better awareness of riding in traffic. I was extremely interested to hear about the training for adults that was mentioned by the right hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake).

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Do the police and the community in Plymouth also enforce no cycling on pavements and no jumping of red lights as part of the city centre cycling code?

[Alison Seabeck]

The city centre cycling code is not yet in place, but there are definite problems about cyclists jumping red lights. It irritates me no end and I often shout at cyclists who do it. That is perhaps not very responsible, but it is something that irritates me. The Plymouth cycling campaign has been working in the city centre, and as the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport will confirm, action has been taken there regarding both cyclists and skateboarders.

The Plymouth cycling campaign also has an effective “give me space” T-shirt—that returns to the point raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) and the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston), who said we need to treat cyclists, and motorcyclists, as though they are cars and give them road space. That is a good idea, but it is a small local initiative that hopes to continue raising awareness and safety. I hope that the Government will look at supporting local authorities and schemes that opt to give greater priority to cycling safety. Yet again, that is a plea for cross-departmental working, together with the Department for Communities and Local Government.

As we have heard, The Times has made several proposals, including the identification of the 500 most dangerous junctions—I have no doubt that cyclists will be queuing up to identify them. One needs to go only a short distance from my flat in London to see two ghost cycles, which are a telling reminder of the tragedies that can happen. The installation of sensors and extra mirrors on trucks is one measure that can be taken. That may involve costs for haulage companies, but when weighed against the loss of a life or a life-threatening injury, it seems a price worth paying. The campaign for safety will enhance people’s enjoyment in cycling and bring obvious health benefits. I urge hon. Members to support it.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

Rail Fares

Alison Seabeck Excerpts

Wednesday 11th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

Rail travel is vital to the far south-west. It takes nearly three and a half hours to travel from London to Plymouth, and five hours to travel further down the Penzance main line. We have ever-diminishing air travel options—Plymouth airport has just shut—and only two strategic road routes, and there is no motorway leading down to Cornwall. Rail and its affordability are therefore incredibly important.

Over the 15 years since privatisation, rail travel in the south-west has boomed. There have been 85% more journeys, 40% of them to London and the south-east. The number of journeys in Plymouth has increased over the past 10 years, despite the recession, and we have seen the fastest rate of travel-to-work growth—about 4.6% each year.

A major capacity gap is looming, however. The decisions taken on High Speed 2 will not help the south-west as much as we would like. It is especially expensive for people in the south-west to travel around the country, as we pay more per mile than those in other areas. That is part of the legacy of botched privatisation. There is a deep sense of unfairness. I fully accept that rail passengers have to pay towards the service they use, but there should be fairness in the system and that does not exist.

Local authority figures and development plans suggest that the number of rail passenger journeys will increase further, and in excess of Network Rail’s figures—I urge the Government to compare the figures of Network Rail with those of the local authorities—but passengers will still face historically high fares, and in particular those travelling from the south-west. Why are standard anytime single fares that are priced per mile so much higher for our region than for any other region? A standard open ticket down to Plymouth will now cost £252, up by 9.7%.

The Government put forward the idea that people can commute for 90 minutes into work. The 90-minute journey out of Plymouth to Taunton is a fair stretch, and a young person doing their first job will have to pay £170 a week if they cannot afford to buy a season ticket. That simply is not realistic, and it is certainly not affordable.

A number of Members touched on the economic significance of the rail network for regional and city growth. Its importance to the south-west cannot be overestimated. So much potential could be unlocked if our rail services were efficient, on time and, importantly, affordable. In yesterday’s local government finance debate, we talked about how local authority budgets might grow, such as through increasing business rate revenues. Those revenues will not grow if a decent infrastructure is not in place and if fares are not affordable, as under those circumstances businesses will not want to invest in cities that are distant from the central hub of London.

As always, we in the south-west and Plymouth are concerned about our peripherality. Following the HS2 announcement, we are increasingly concerned that the south-west’s links to London are not being looked at and that we are not getting a strategic overview of exactly how the benefits of HS2 will pan out in terms of access to and from the south-west. We have also received no reassurances about affordability, and we see no fairness in the fares structure. We need a fares structure that is simpler, too. We have a new franchise coming up, and fares structuring and pricing must be taken into account at that time. I also urge the Minister to take on board the concerns of the people of the south-west.

My hon. Friend the Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) was right to call this debate, as we should highlight the policies of the Government, which do not tackle the rail companies and therefore, in effect, acquiesce in the unacceptably high rail fares. I urge Members to vote for our motion.

High-speed Rail

Alison Seabeck Excerpts

Tuesday 10th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Justine Greening]

High Speed 2 is critical for places such as Rugby, which have been so constrained by capacity on the conventional line. One of the benefits of HS2 is that it will free up capacity for better connectivity to places on existing lines, just like Rugby.

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

Warrington gets its journey cut by half an hour—lucky Warrington. Plymouth is a bigger city than Warrington and we have no high-speed link to the south-west. As regards the concern raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), the Chair of the Transport Committee, will the Secretary of State confirm that top-slicing will not happen to other budgets and that the south-west main line down to Penzance will still get further investment?

[Justine Greening]

We are about to continue the process on the high-level output specification, or HLOS2, and that will consider future investment in lines such as the great western line, which will be connected to HS2 via the Old Oak Common interchange. That will benefit the hon. Lady’s part of the country as well as everybody else’s.

First Great Western Rail Franchise

Alison Seabeck Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2011 Westminster Hall

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

I want to thank my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton)—in Christmas spirit, I will describe her as my hon. Friend for today—for introducing the discussion. This is very much a cross-party debate, and I am pleased that she has managed to secure it. I am even more delighted that she has presented the case in an incredibly well-informed and balanced way. I hope that the Minister accepts that she made a really thoughtful contribution to what I am sure will be an excellent debate.

It is essential that those involved in preparing the franchise listen to the views of MPs from across the south-west on the priorities for our region and the importance of connectivity. They also need to listen to our individual concerns about the reliability and frequency of services to the towns and cities that we represent.

In the past six weeks, I convened a meeting of all south-west MPs to discuss connectivity across our region, particularly in respect of the rail franchise. I am therefore delighted at the timeliness of this debate. The meeting was incredibly well attended, as is today’s debate. Significant numbers of people came, which is an indication of the importance that we place on getting this right. I should also put on the record my thanks—and the thanks of other MPs—to Chris Irwin from TravelWatch SouthWest, Andrew Seedhouse from Plymouth university, Ray Bentley and Neill Mitchell for helping to ensure the debate and meeting was well-informed. They supplied briefings to all colleagues and attended in person.

My hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth has drawn attention to the common themes, and I make no apology for repeating some of them. It is essential that those involved in drawing up the franchise understand clearly that we want the new franchise to address some common concerns. As I have said, we also want full consideration to be given to issues that are specific to our constituencies.

To be honest, predating this Parliament, we as a group allowed things to slip under the radar a bit when the last franchise was being prepared and we got caught out. When the previous franchise was announced, we found that it was set significantly below the previous standard. The standard of service then was not all that good, but when the previous franchise was first proposed, it would have made things a whole lot worse—for example, we would have lost the sleeper service.

One of the key messages that we want to send out is that we need to ensure that the starting point for the franchise is at least the base line of the current service and that it should not be any lower. I will come on to this again, but, ideally, we need to keep one or two things that we currently have. It is also essential to ensure that other Departments feed into the process.

Any reduction in service would clearly impact on business and economic growth in the region, particularly in Plymouth, where we have just lost our airport. That leaves Plymouth, the 15th largest city in England, as one of only two large cities that is more than 10 miles from a motorway that does not have an airport—the other is Peterborough. I am sure colleagues will understand that, if Plymouth is to continue to be an economic driver for the region, it is vital to have reliable, affordable and fast services to other large cities—in particular, London and Birmingham—as well as to Heathrow, and I will come to that issue later.

Will the Minister explain how she intends to ensure that the wider economic benefits of the franchise are considered across Departments? I gently suggest to her that the issues specific to the franchise, on which decisions have been made in the past about additional revenue from fares, have not fully reflected the wider benefits—those not found in the fares box. Too many Government decisions on transport and the franchise have been silo based. I urge her to talk cross-Department to her colleagues in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Treasury, as well as to seek the views of local enterprise partnerships across the region, because they, too, will have a significant input into the process.

Will the Minister say—this point has already been made, but it is incredibly important to business people in my area—whether there will be a five or six-year franchise, which is the rumour, or whether there will be something practical and sensible, such as a 15-year franchise?

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

It might be sensible to answer that now. We published a notice in the official journal of the European Union expressing our intention to go for a 15-year franchise.

[Alison Seabeck]

That is very good news. I am delighted about the Minister’s confirmation, because that has been a cause of concern.

During the MPs’ meeting, it became clear from the evidence that was presented that our region’s population is growing fast. That point was made earlier, but Ministers and officials in Whitehall need to understand it. In my experience of two different Governments, I do not think that people really understand the south-west. They think that it is a green, leafy place where people go on holiday, but it is growing fast and has a huge potential that is being missed. If we do not get the right franchise, everything we have to offer will be wasted. That is an important point, and I particularly want officials to understand what the south-west has to offer.

All those issues need to be factored in, and we need to ensure that the mismatch in rail fares, which patently hits the south-west, is also addressed. I am afraid that that is the outcome of another botched privatisation, but there is a genuine issue that is well documented by TravelWatch SouthWest in its very good document. We have seen the Chancellor rectify or consider improving and correcting a mistake that was made with South West Water. I do not know whether anything can be done about rail fares, but they are clearly an important issue.

I will make a couple of key points about Plymouth and services into our city, and I am sure that the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile)—my hon. Friend for the day, too—will re-enforce them if he is lucky enough to be called to speak. First, as I have pointed out, there are serious connectivity issues relating to our city—a city of more than 250,000 people. Secondly, we need to enable people to do business with our city. That means being able to arrive early enough for morning meetings. Plymouth is one of the top 10 locations for fast growing business, but we need people to be able to reach us by 10 am, not by noon, so we would really like to see a train leaving Paddington at approximately 5.55 am.

We would like to see more three-hour journeys and greater reliability. The signalling improvements that are happening in Reading will help with that. We are also keen to have links to Heathrow, because, without an air link, good rail connections are absolutely vital for both business and tourism. We would therefore be interested in supporting the Heathrow hub link. Given the long journeys on the franchise—five to six hours for colleagues in Cornwall—it is essential that bidders consider both comfort and wi-fi provision. That would certainly help; a lot of business can be done on a train. I have not even touched on the importance of improving connectivity via community rail links, which are growing exponentially in the south-west, or the benefits of improving car parking, bus connections, walking and cycling linkages, which, although not directly issues for the franchise, deserve wider consideration.

Overcrowding, which has already been mentioned, is a huge issue throughout the system. It is a problem for the Paddington to Penzance main line, which is what we should actually call it, rather than lose it in the greater south-western service. As my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth mentioned, First Great Western operates 147 trains—some 40 more trains than was set out by the original franchise. That should therefore be the base level for the franchise. Once rolling stock is freed up by changes in other parts of the country, my plea is that it should be diverted to the south-west and not channelled up to the midlands and the north, as has happened in the past.

Our region’s rail links have been neglected historically. They are often seen as far too difficult, but we have heard already in the Chamber today, and we will hear again, a consensual call for additional resources to come to our region for good economic reasons—there is a real cost-benefit to investment. I hope the Minister is listening and will ensure that all the issues raised today are discussed at the highest level in Government.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) on securing the debate. I think we all agree that this issue is really important to all of our constituents. It is certainly an important issue for my constituents in South East Cornwall. The First Great Western train service from London to the south-west is a vital rail link for my constituency. The loss of the airport in Plymouth, and the fact that there is such a great distance between my constituency and Newquay airport in Cornwall, means that very often the railway is the only way that people can commute. I emphasise the importance of the train service for the tourism industry, and for people visiting family and friends. I thank my right hon. Friend the Minister, who is due to visit one of my branch lines in January to see for herself what beautiful lines we have in Cornwall, but also how important they are. I am very grateful to her for visiting south-east Cornwall.

As the Member of Parliament for South East Cornwall, I use the First Great Western service from Liskeard to London frequently. There are major issues that I have noticed, which my constituents continually bring to my attention, and I will share them with the Minister. As has been referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth and the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck), rolling stock and overcrowding are big issues. Frequently, we have to change in Plymouth to carry on through to Penzance and use the small, two-carriage rolling stock, which is continually overcrowded and has luggage kept in the aisles. The amount of luggage compromises the safety of passengers on board. I recently witnessed one instance where a wheelchair user was unable to board the train in Liskeard, due to the amount of luggage on the train.

[Alison Seabeck]

I, too, have witnessed everybody trying to pile into those two carriages, because I get off at Plymouth. In the summer, when people have large surfboards—Cornwall is great for surfing—it must be almost impossible at times for people to get on, never mind somebody struggling with a wheelchair or a buggy.

[Sheryll Murray]

The hon. Lady is absolutely correct. I have been on the train when many passengers have been forced to stand. What a lot of people do not understand is that someone who buys a first-class ticket from Paddington to Penzance and has to stand on the two-carriage train is entitled to a refund. The excessive cost represented by that could be channelled into improving the rolling stock. I ask the Minister to ensure that the provision of better rolling stock is included in any future franchise.

It is bad enough for someone such as me who is only travelling across the Tamar to Liskeard, or to Bodmin Parkway station in my constituency, but the journey must be horrendous for passengers travelling through to Penzance, especially during peak times. In September, I tabled a question to the Secretary of State for Transport about whether there were any plans to introduce new rolling stock on the First Great Western main line west of Plymouth in the next four years. The Minister replied:

“The Government are committed to a less prescriptive approach to the specification of rail franchises, with decisions such as rolling stock provision devolved primarily to franchise operators.”—[Official Report, 12 September 2011; Vol. 532, c. 992W.]

She might be interested to know, however, that First Great Western has told me that it is a Government problem. I ask her to ensure that the requirements for larger and improved rolling stock are included in the franchise specifically, so that there is no question about who is responsible in any future franchise.

Finally, I also make a bid for the retention of the sleeper service, which is the only way that I can get back to my constituency, given the sitting hours of Parliament and the need to start in my constituency at 9 o’clock on a Friday morning. Without the service, we would all be at a loss. I also emphasise how much it is used: in my experience, sometimes, it cannot be booked even a fortnight ahead because it is fully subscribed. The service is not underused—in fact, we could do with more carriages, not fewer.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Alan, as ever. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) on securing the debate at such a timely point. Yesterday, the Government fired the starting gun on the process for selecting the new franchisee with the publication of a notice in the Official Journal of the European Union. We propose to issue a consultation in the next few days, which we expect will close at the end of March. The debate is thus well timed, and I welcome all the speeches that have been made. As my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile) put it, all hon. Members spoke with one voice about the importance of the process that we are undertaking. We will consider all the representations made today and during the consultation.

[Alison Seabeck]

On that very point, will the Minister promise today that she will take a meeting of all the south-west MPs, once that consultation is under way and we have had the opportunity to look at the franchise? We will certainly have views on it.

[Mrs Villiers]

I am happy to give the hon. Lady that undertaking. It will be a good contribution to the decision-making process.

Almost every hon. Member who has spoken has emphasised the economic importance of the Great Western rail network. They included my hon. Friends the Members for South Swindon (Mr Buckland), for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson), for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport and for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray), and the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck). Clearly, it has a crucial role. Rail connectivity supports jobs and growth, and is, in particular, vital for the tourism sector, which is such an important part of the economy in the area served by the Great Western franchise. In response to the point made by the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View, it would be positive for the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, the Treasury, local enterprise partnerships and local authorities to be engaged in the important decision in question.

Passenger demand has grown across much of the Great Western network in recent years, as many hon. Members have acknowledged.

M5 Motorway Accident

Alison Seabeck Excerpts

Monday 7th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Justine Greening]

I agree with my hon. Friend. Critically, we must bear in mind that safe driving on motorways is not simply about the maximum speed limit; it is also about smart driving—not driving too close to people in front and braking in a way that is not too quick and that surprises motorists behind. There are an awful lot of different aspects of safe driving on motorways. In fact, we are already considering whether we can ensure that learner drivers have some experience of driving on motorways as part of their training. That proposal has been put to us. We can do a number of things to improve the situation. Clearly, it is important for individual drivers at all times to bear in mind that although there is a speed limit, they must drive according to the conditions of the road and the weather.

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

May I thank both Front Benchers for voicing so clearly the sentiments felt on both sides of the House for all those involved? Crash barriers save lives, and they are particularly well designed in the UK. We can see from the pictures that the crash barriers prevented vehicles from going on to the southbound carriageway. However, a degree of compression was caused by having crash barriers on both the hard shoulder and the central reservation, where we expect them to be. Such compression exacerbates the potential for fire to spread, as people are funnelled into a particular spot. As part of the Secretary of State’s investigation, will she look at whether having crash barriers on both sides of the road had any impact on the spread of fire among vehicles?

[Justine Greening]

The hon. Lady is right to point out that the Highways Agency must manage risks. The crash barriers are on the side of that particular stretch of motorway because there is a steep bank. She raises the issue of the compression of vehicles, but alternatively, had the barrier not been there, the risk is that vehicles would have gone down the bank. Nevertheless, the police were quite careful to ensure that they looked around the banks to see whether there were any injured people or fatalities who were not on the motorway itself. The Highways Agency takes a risk-based approach to such things, which is what it had done on that particular stretch of motorway.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alison Seabeck Excerpts

Thursday 22nd July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mike Penning]

That is a fantastic offer which, of course, I will accept.

[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State respond to a letter that I received from a constituent of mine, Mr Rod East? He is 61 and has a concessionary bus pass. Plymouth city council will have to renew it in 2011 under the system it is operating. Will he please confirm his earlier statement that no changes to the concessionary bus pass will apply to Plymouth city council?

[Mr Hammond]

I can only repeat what I said earlier: we have no plans to change the national concessionary scheme. The Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister have both made very clear their commitment to the national scheme.