Welfare Cap

Alison McGovern Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)]

I beg to move,

That, pursuant to the Charter for Budget Responsibility: Autumn 2022 update, which was approved by this House on 6 February 2023 under section 1 of the Budget Responsibility and National Audit Act 2011, this House agrees that the forecast breach of the welfare cap in 2024–25 due to higher forecast expenditure on Universal Credit and disability benefits is justified and that no further debate will be required in relation to this specific breach.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following motion:

That the level of the welfare cap, as specified in the Autumn Budget 2024, which was laid before this House on 30 October 2024, be approved.

[Alison McGovern]

Before this Government were elected, we said that we would change this country, and we will. To get change done, any Government have to stand on firm foundations, which is why, as we have just heard from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, we promised to be responsible with the public’s money. We know that every penny counts in this mission, because if we fail to protect the public purse, we fail to protect the purses of the public. Family finances can never withstand fantasy economics.

That was supposed to be the whole point of the welfare cap. It was designed to help better control public spending, counting the cost of the rising price of failure. I will come to some of the failures we are now seeing and the people thrown on the scrapheap as a result of the failure of 14 years of economic policy, particularly on the labour market.

The welfare cap was intended to ensure that the cost of important parts of the social security system, such as universal credit—though not counting those actively looking for work—the personal independence payment and pension credit, remains predictable and affordable. Only the state pension and benefits for unemployed households were excluded.

What was the result of a decade of Conservative welfare caps? Repeated breaches of the cap, with ever higher limits. The latest cap is now on course to be breached by an £8.6 billion overspend. This is not tolerable, given the state of our economy and the public finances.

Worse still, there is the human cost for every single person who could be enjoying the benefits of work but has been denied the choices and chances they deserve. I regularly meet people in that position. There is the young person who has not recovered from the dreadful legacy of the pandemic—not in college, not starting their first job, barely even able to go out with friends, and bearing the burden of the mental health crisis that our young people face. I believe the pandemic generation was completely let down.

There are our older relatives who have been pushed out of work before their time with hip or knee pain. The NHS is just not able to help them at the moment, and they are not even getting advice about how to make ends meet. That is the legacy we inherited, and it is not good enough for anybody. It is also the legacy of low growth, the higher cost of living and high inactivity, with employment and social security systems ill equipped to meet the requirements of an older, sicker nation. That is the Conservative party’s record.

Unfortunately, this breach—forecast as far back as March 2023 but ignored—is now wholly unavoidable in this fiscal year, given the scale of failure we have inherited. We will not duck the difficult decisions needed to restore economic stability, and we will deal with the failure we see before us.

Before I say how we will do that, I want to reflect on exactly how we ended up in this situation. The sad truth is that, in way too many parts of the country, too many people are denied the opportunity to have a good job so that they can support themselves and put a roof over their family’s heads.

The benefits bill only reflects that failure, with 2.8 million people locked out of the workforce due to poor health, and 3.4 million more working-age people reporting a long-term health condition than 10 years ago. We have large numbers of people turning up to a social security system that is not geared up to meet what has become the greatest unemployment challenge of a generation.

[Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is doing a compelling job of setting out the damning state of the welfare system we inherited when we took charge. Does she agree that investment in the NHS, so that people finally have the healthcare support they need, is fundamental to making sure they can get back to work, contribute as they would like and build a secure future for themselves and their family?

[Alison McGovern]

The NHS is the bedrock that ensures people can thrive and contribute to society, economically and in every other way. We also need to ensure that the health support people get is the right support. At the moment, we are not doing enough on occupational therapies and other things that provide health support tailored to people’s work. We will have more to say about that in the near future, I am sure.

A huge number of people are turning to a social security system that is not geared up to meet the huge employment challenge. At the moment, social security cannot cope. Hon. Members may ask themselves how on earth we got to this place, after 14 years of so-called benefits crackdowns by the Conservatives. Well, I invite everybody to look at their record. When universal credit was introduced 12 years ago, the Government of the day made all sorts of promises. They said it would

“break the cycle of benefit dependency”

and offer

“greater incentives to find a job”.

The former Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith), said that universal credit

“will ensure that work always pays and is seen to pay”,

but what have we seen since? A disastrous series of wrong-headed choices that have achieved precisely the opposite effect.

New data, which we are publishing today for the first time, shows the extent of the effects of universal credit on incapacity benefits. There has been increase of 800,000 people receiving incapacity benefits between 2018 and 2023. Around 10% of that increase is because of the rising state pension age and another 10% because of the way changes were made in the move from employment support allowance and other benefits to universal credit, a situation that should have been foreseen and planned for by the previous Government. That leaves an increase of over 500,000 people, to which I will now turn. The Conservatives need to take a long hard look at the changes they made to universal credit.

We must consider how people transitioned between the “looking for work” group in the universal credit health journey, where they are told that they have limited capacity to do any work or work-related activity, to “actively looking for work”. How did people move between being told they cannot work and being told to actively look for work? People moving between those two groups used to receive a top-up to their benefits, but that was removed in 2017, creating a hard barrier between those categorised as incapable for work and those looking for work. In addition, there was a four-year freeze to the rates of universal credit in the late 2010s, except the highest tier of health-related benefits. As a result, the income of those trying to find work was squeezed, and the barrier between those on universal credit actively looking for work and those who had been told that they were unable to work was hardened.

We have seen a steady rise in the number of people on the highest tier of health benefits, where there are no requirements to look for work or to get any help to make the steps on that journey, and no support to find jobs when many people actually want to work. All the while, there have been more and more conditions and box ticking in a system that has failed.

Social security was designed to smooth people’s incomes over time and to take account of life events that could happen to any of us, but the result of all the changes is that either by design or mismanagement—probably both—the previous Government created a social security system that segregated people away from work and forgot about them. There was no helping back to work, and only the promise that they would be left alone.

The Office for Budget Responsibility has said that

“the wider benefits system—in particular the conditionality and generosity associated with incapacity benefits relative to other parts of the system—has affected incapacity benefits flows over time”.

Unfortunately, that situation, created by the last Government, is far from the only problem, because social security will only ever function where the Government take their wider duties seriously.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)]

On the point of support for people who are on benefits, the Social Security Act 1986 ended the requirement on the now Department for Work and Pensions to provide advice and welfare support to people. Will it now be the policy of the DWP to automatically offer advice and support to people on the benefits they are entitled to claim, or to give more support to voluntary advice agencies so that people get what they are entitled to?

[Alison McGovern]

We published in November an extensive reform programme for the Department to get Britain working. We showed how in some parts of the country—I will come to this in more detail shortly—people have been abandoned and their labour market has not supported enough good jobs for a very long time. We showed how, by acting on better health and better local support services, we will reintroduce ambition into our support services.

We want to help people get into a job that will support their family finances and help our economy thrive. We have a huge change programme underway in the Department for Work and Pensions, and we will be doing even more than we set out in that White Paper. The challenge is huge, but the potential is also massive. I worry about everybody who is out of work, but particularly our young people, who have effectively been thrown on the scrapheap. It is a disaster now in exactly the same way that it was a disaster, brought about by the economic turbulence that I grew up in, in the 1980s, which is the period the right hon. Member refers to. We will therefore take the challenge of restoring employment—proper employment—in this country extremely seriously.

In doing that, I want to talk about the Government’s wider responsibilities, not just in reforming the social security system but far beyond that. You will forgive me, Madam Deputy Speaker, if I return to the founding document of our social security system, the Beveridge report. In 1942, William Beveridge identified the

“establishment of comprehensive health and rehabilitation services, and maintenance of employment…as necessary conditions of success”

in social security.

That lesson is forgotten again and again in this country, and we will never have a social security system that functions well unless we have an NHS that works and we maintain policies designed to move towards full employment. Social security cannot soak up every single problem in this country if the Government forget their wider responsibilities. I note that the Beveridge report considered the consequences of war and the injury to the nation that that had brought about. In many ways, we ought to learn the lessons of the pandemic: that the health of the nation can never be taken for granted and that, in setting us on the right path in terms of both health and employment, we can plot a course towards a more sustainable future. As I have said, is it any wonder that our social security system is broken given the health of the nation, given what we have been through and given the last Government’s neglect of the NHS and the state of our labour market?

To look backwards again for a moment, we know that in our country’s economic history, we had periods when whole towns and cities were deindustrialised and left to fend for themselves. Economies simply failed, and while great progress has been made, including in my constituency, in my city region in Merseyside and in other places whose economies have moved on greatly since that time, sadly, too many have never properly recovered. As a result, we have a labour market that simply fails to offer good work everywhere.

As part of our “Get Britain Working” White Paper analysis, we found that when students are not counted, the inactivity rate, to give the example of Blackpool, is 29%. That is nearly a third of working age people. That can never be a good platform on which to build a thriving economy, and I am determined that we will turn it around.

More than half of the 20 local authorities with the highest rates of inactivity in England are in the north, while none are in the south-east. It is, however, far from a north-south divide. We have identified 14 types of labour markets in the United Kingdom and considered their features: what they share and what divides them. We want to identify those places that are furthest behind, precisely so that we can help.

It is not just the prevailing economic circumstances or what has happened in the recent past to a local authority that defeats people, but, unfortunately, the jobcentres that are supposed to be there to help. When we did our analysis for our “Get Britain Working” White Paper, we uncovered the record of the last Conservative Government. I was shocked to find that only around 8%—only 8%—of universal credit claimants in the “searching for work” group move into work from one month to the next. In the “no work requirements” group, 92% were still there after six months. That is the very definition of being on the scrapheap: no work and no help to get work. That is just failing people.

Then there is the price tag. Spending on universal credit and disability benefits was £10.9 billion higher than anticipated when the level of the welfare cap was calculated. That is a dreadful record. For the reasons that I set out earlier, the breach of the cap is unavoidable this year, but this Government are taking the action necessary to drive up opportunity in employment while driving down the benefits bill. Our “Get Britain Working” White Paper, as I have mentioned, set out the biggest reforms to employment in a generation, with a radical new approach backed by £240 million of investment. We are overhauling our jobcentres and creating a new jobs and careers service, doing away with needless admin and freeing up work coach time, so that my colleagues can give real, high-quality support to people.

Although I am often disappointed in the help that people receive in jobcentres, I am never disappointed by what our work coaches do. The thing that lets the work coaches down is the system in which they work. For example, they are told that they can see someone for only 10 minutes. How are they supposed to help in 10 minutes? They have to carry out numerous admin checks that could be done with modern technology, when the person in front of them is just sat there waiting, not receiving any help. Our work coaches are full of ideas, full of local knowledge and full of determination that we will make a new system work. I take this opportunity to put on record my thanks to every single DWP member of staff who has embraced change with gusto.

[Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)]

When I visited the jobcentre in St Albans last year I, too, was struck by the fantastic support given by some of the work coaches. However, I was also struck by what some of the jobseekers had to say. One said that she had been in full employment, but had to give up her job to look after her two children because they could not get the special educational needs and disabilities support that they needed in school. Another said that they were struggling with addiction and could not hold down a job because they could not get the support needed from the NHS. Does the Minister agree that, while our work coaches are doing a really good job, ultimately, we need to get our public services, particularly the NHS, back on their feet?

[Alison McGovern]

I agree with the hon. Lady. Can we just take this moment to thank the DWP team in St Albans? They sound like they are doing a great job and they are also briefing their local MP, which is really good of them. I encourage all colleagues in the House to ensure that they have a regular catch-up with their jobcentre colleagues so that they know the kind of things that our work coaches have to deal with. Often, Members of Parliament can be quite helpful in putting people in touch with other organisations, so I encourage all colleagues to do as the hon. Lady has done.

On the point that the hon. Lady makes about SEND, she is absolutely right: this is a major barrier. If Members want to understand what a struggle to get to work and to stay in work looks like, they should ask the parent of a disabled child. This issue of where the effect of poverty and the SEND crisis can compound is being considered by the child poverty taskforce in particular. The hon. Lady is absolutely right: good public services and a good, strong economy go hand in hand. It is not “public services or a strong economy”—we called that ideology “austerity”, and it did not work. The two go hand in hand. We need to look in that rounded way to see how we can help people, and that is the approach that we are taking. We want to make every jobcentre in the country a place that people who are looking for work, and employers, will actually want to use. We know that what happens early on in a career echoes down the years; as I have said, our young people—the pandemic generation—were failed. That is why our youth guarantee will give every 18 to 20-year-old access to quality education, training or employment.

On top of that, we are working with local leaders who know their towns and cities best, supporting them to produce their own local “Get Britain Working” plans that join up work, health and skills to support their communities. I have mentioned the major fractures still in the UK economy following previous economic events that were not managed properly. That is how we know that the same thing just will not work everywhere. The DWP will reform itself so that we are able to localise support services, and we will work with local leaders to do that.

All of that will ensure that we help people to enjoy the benefits that good work brings to wellbeing—and I do mean “good work”. The choice in this country should never be between the scar of unemployment and the scar of poor work that does nothing but keep people poor. Poor work does not reduce the pressure on our social security system; it just means more people working too hard for their poverty. That is why we will improve the security and quality of work through our plan to make work pay. We will create more good jobs in every part of the country with a modern industrial strategy and local growth plans. Together, they will help us to meet our long-term ambition for an 80% employment rate.

We will create the conditions for success in social security. As I have outlined, the changes made to social security were ill-thought through. A fresh approach is needed to make our social security system sustainable, and we will build that system to give people the help that they need to find great jobs and feel the benefit of work. We want to tackle poverty and target support at those who need it most. We will set out our proposals in a Green Paper on reforming the health and disability system in the spring. We will work with disabled people and their organisations to get that right.

A strong social security system needs the confidence of us all. Anyone might suddenly find themselves unwell or with the extra costs that children bring, and we all hope one day to enjoy the benefits of the state pension, so we must protect the social security system now and in the future. Not only did we confirm at the autumn Budget that we would keep a welfare cap in place with a margin of 5% to account for the volatility of recent forecasts, but later this year we will publish a new annual report on social security spending across Government, setting out the DWP’s plan to ensure that it is on a sustainable path. The days of setting spending targets without a proper plan to meet them are over.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

If next year’s report recommends an increase in welfare spending, would that be impossible within this cap, or will she come back to Parliament to ask for a change in the cap well ahead of its 2029 expiration?

[Alison McGovern]

In the specifics of our proposal, we will publish a Green Paper on health and disability in the coming months. With regards to the financial controls, we will do all that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury set out some moments ago on allowing the Office for Budget Responsibility to perform its function. That is the best way to ensure that we take fiscal decisions within the guardrails that he set out.

The results of 14 years of failure are unfortunately only too obvious, as I said earlier. Everywhere we look in this country, we can see the impact of what the previous Government did. Too many people in far too many places were neglected and failed, starved of opportunity, and left to turn to a social security system that just is not working. Everybody in this country suffers the consequences.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

I am not sure how long the Minister has left in her speech, but I have a question about the welfare cap. We are being asked to make two decisions: to approve the welfare cap, and to note the breach. She has made the case for how the Government are trying to get Britain working and why the breach has happened this year, but so far she has not made the case for why they are putting in a welfare cap this year and why we parliamentarians should agree to it.

[Alison McGovern]

I did make the case for the overall welfare cap and for that policy at the beginning of my speech, because it is important that we have proper controls on public spending. Fantasy economics will do absolutely nothing to support family finances and the Government are determined that we will manage public finances in a responsible fashion.

The results of failure are far too obvious; we all pay the consequences. That is why we will not stand for it. Every penny counts, but so does the future of every person in this country. That is why, in order to ensure we save every penny for the things we want to spend on in social security, we are bringing forward the biggest welfare fraud and error package in recent history. We are not just tweaking a broken system; we are going to fundamentally change the way we approach reform, starting with the principle of focusing on people.

We will tackle the root causes of unemployment—whether you are out of work because you cannot find a job or are out of work because the last Government wrote you off, everybody deserves to build a better life and fulfil their potential.

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

I am proud to be a Labour MP. Labour is the party of the dignity of work. We know that, for those who are able to, the best place to be is in work with a well-paid job with good rights. Does my hon. Friend agree that the previous Government did far too little to ensure that people who could work were helped back into work to get all the benefits and dignity that working can bring, and that they wrote off far too many people, which has left us in this sorry state?

[Alison McGovern]

I am glad that my hon. Friend is proud to be a Labour MP, as am I, and I am glad he is proud of the approach we are taking on employment, because so am I. We cannot afford this failure any longer in the cost to our public finances. We will never tolerate the failure in hope, dignity, ambition and opportunity that the levels of unemployment in this country now represent.

--- Later in debate ---

[Helen Whately]

I will make some progress.

In government, we were working flat out to tackle that problem. We were changing how we assess people’s capability for work, recognising that the world of work has changed. We developed WorkWell to help people with health conditions or disabilities find and stay in work, and we were reforming the fit notes that GPs give people. Once again, we were opposed by Labour every step of the way.

We also had plans to go further. In our manifesto, we committed to £12 billion-worth of savings by reforming sickness benefits. Labour responded at the time by saying that the money is simply not there, and the present Chancellor said that not a single penny could be saved from welfare. It turns out that, on this one occasion, Labour has stuck to its word: it has no plans to control welfare spending. Today, the Government are setting a welfare cap that does not include a penny’s worth of savings at a staggering £195 billion by 2029-30—a 44% increase on this year’s cap. In cash terms, that is more than our entire defence budget. Not content with not saving a single penny, they have given themselves a £10 billion buffer on top of that. That lack of ambition is terrifying.

We believe that money can and should be saved from the welfare bill. The Chancellor finally seems to agree with us, because she has been busy briefing the papers in a panic about cutting spending. But where are those plans? Unfortunately, she has not got any because, as I said, until now she did not believe any savings could be made. Perhaps the Employment Minister can give us some clues. I believe she has canned my fit note reforms, so what will she do to get the welfare bill down and by when? How on earth does she expect to get people into work when 50,000 people were added to the unemployment figures in December alone?

[Alison McGovern]

I think I am being asked whether we stopped the extensive work that the previous Government were doing on rising inactivity. I have to say that when I got into the Department for Work and Pensions, there was not an extensive plan available. That is why we have had to embark on fundamental reform, which we set out in a White Paper in November, and that is why we will shortly be bringing forward a Green Paper on health and disability reform. The idea that somehow there was an instruction list left in the Department that we could just crack on with is a fantasy.

[Helen Whately]

The hon. Lady will know—at least I think she will know—that the vast majority of what she set out in the White Paper was the continuation of things we were doing in government. In fact, if she has read it she will see that it even says that the youth guarantee is essentially a new name for a repackaged set of measures that are already in place. That is literally in the White Paper. I am happy to follow up with her afterwards on the page that she will find that phrase on.

I have yet to see a single sign to suggest that this Government can tackle the welfare bill, and the cap they are setting today tells us that they agree. The Opposition will support efforts to bring down welfare costs sensibly. We need a compassionate safety net, but that net should never become a trap. If the Government do not get a grip of the problem, it will put our entire social contract at risk. Ministers have finally twigged that action is required—a Green Paper is, they say, on its way. I urge the hon. Lady to get on with it, because each month that passes see thousands more drift out of work and into a life of inactivity.

--- Later in debate ---

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Ind)]

I hope that the Government will consider completely scrapping this debate in future years, because it has become farcical. The right hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) will remember that the welfare cap was introduced because of the Dutch auction that was going on in this Chamber about who could be more brutal on the poor. The welfare cap was part of that period of debate, in which anyone claiming benefits was allegedly a welfare benefit scrounger who was not willing to work for a living. That was the atmosphere that was engendered in this Chamber. At that stage, to be frank, it was deeply worrying. In many ways, humanity almost left the Chamber.

The farcical nature of the debate is that, having introduced the cap, Minister after Minister would have to come back each year and report that the cap had been breached, because more expenditure had been forced on the Government as a result of the increasing levels of poverty. I suppose that it at least gives Members the opportunity to have some discretion over issues of poverty.

May I suggest to those on the Labour Front Bench that they should remove the cap, because it has become a farcical exercise? If we are to have a debate on poverty, there should be an annual report by the Labour Government on the poverty strategy that they are now developing. I believe that the commission established by the Labour party is now working, and it would be so much better if we had a report and did not have the farcical pantomime that we have today.

[Alison McGovern]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene briefly to say that the child poverty taskforce’s work is ongoing, and that it regularly engages with parliamentarians and others to update them. I know that many parliamentarians have been pleased to involve themselves in that work, given the importance of tackling child poverty.

[John McDonnell]

That is a really helpful response, but it does not respond to the fact that if we are to have a focus on poverty, rather than a debate on the welfare cap, which is breached on virtually an annual basis, it might be better to have a debate on the Government’s strategy to tackle poverty overall. Then we could have a proper discussion, and even a debate with a motion that could be amended where we want to see improvements. That is what I want to get on to now.

I hope that people have seen today’s Joseph Rowntree Foundation report on overall poverty, which reflects what most of us know and experience in our constituencies. It is shatteringly depressing, to be frank, because it does not show any improvement over the last few decades. The hon. Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Helen Whately) mentioned that the Tory Government introduced this measure when they came into power. It was during the period of austerity, and it is worth reflecting on what that meant.

The London School of Economics’ report and other independent reports say that 140,000 people lost their lives as a result of austerity; others have estimated that the figure could be up to 300,000. In part, that was because of the grinding poverty that was imposed on people, as reflected in all our constituencies—we saw it. I remember a time when there were no food banks in any of our constituencies, because they were not necessary, but now they are, as a result of 14 years of austerity.

If we are to have a proper debate on poverty, we need to highlight as individual constituency MPs where we think the Government should be going, so I will briefly do so on the basis of what we have seen in the Joseph Rowntree Foundation report. I always cite the overall figures: we have 15 million people living in poverty, including 5 million children. I think the Joseph Rowntree Foundation report says that there are 4 million people living in deep poverty, and nearly 4 million in destitution.

The statistic that always shocks me is that 1 million children are in destitution. I never thought we would use the word “destitution” again in our society; I always thought we would improve year by year and lift people out of poverty. I never thought that children would live in poverty in the way that some of my generation did.

There are groups that clearly need to be on the agenda, and my hon. Friend the Minister has mentioned some of them, thank goodness. I chair a group of unpaid carers, of whom there are 5 million in this country. If an unpaid carer is looking after a disabled member of their family, it is almost inevitable that they will be living in poverty, unless we face up to the central demand of unpaid carers, which is to address their income. It is not just about how much they can earn, which the Government have looked at recently; it is about the carer’s allowance being at such a level that people cannot survive on it.

Looking at the report with regard to families with children living in poverty, I cannot at the moment see a faster way of getting children out of poverty than scrapping the two-child limit. I am hoping that will be on the agenda as a priority when the Child Poverty Action Group reports to Parliament.

The Joseph Rowntree Foundation has identified that the poverty rate among disabled people is now 30%. The Government are about to consult again on the work capability assessment reforms because they lost in court to Ellen Clifford two weeks ago. I am pleased that the Government lost in court, to be frank. The basis of that decision was the lack of consultation on the previous Government’s reforms. I do not understand why our Government continued the appeal within the court, but they did. They have now lost and have been forced to bring forward their consultations on the reform of the work capability assessment.

I am hoping that those reforms will be done in co-production with disabled people—on the basis of the disability groups’ principle, “nothing about us without us”. My fear is that an overhanging £3 billion-worth of savings is required from the DWP on this issue. If that results in cuts to individual benefits, I think there will be uproar within our communities and across this House. What is also interesting in the Joseph Rowntree Foundation report is that the poverty rate among people who are suffering long-term health conditions is 50%. The work that the Department of Health will now do in walk-in advice surgeries, for example, and the focus on mental health, will be key.

The household benefit cap overall is iniquitous. It forces families into poverty, particularly in places such as London, because of the high rents that are hitting people. According to the Joseph Rowntree report, the poverty rate among renters in social housing is 44% and in the private rented sector it is 35%. The Government’s refusal to accept the amendment to introduce rent controls, which was tabled by a number of Labour Members, was extremely disappointing. The Government could at least devolve that power to the individual Mayors so that they can represent their communities and introduce rent controls where necessary. I believe that Sadiq Khan has expressed his support for that power to be devolved. With rent controls, we could tackle the housing crisis that we face within our constituencies.

When we talk about poverty, we need to come forward with an agenda that will tackle it at pace, and I do not think that, in our discussions in the future, a welfare benefits cap in any form will assist in bringing forward the reforms that our constituents so desperately need.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison McGovern]

I thank every Member who contributed to the debate. My hon. Friends the Member for Loughborough (Dr Sandher), for Hendon (David Pinto-Duschinsky) and for Chipping Barnet (Dan Tomlinson), the hon. Members for St Albans (Daisy Cooper) and for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman), and the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) all made important contributions.

All of us have pointed out that our social security system should be a safety net and a springboard, and should help people be and do all the things they might wish. However, when we look at what we have inherited, it is a mess and it does not serve the purpose it is supposed to serve. That presents a crisis for this country, because each and every one of us knows that one day it could be us that gets sick and needs help, and that one day, hopefully, we will receive a state pension. We need the social security system to do its job. We are not in a good place, but we will move on.

We are all impatient to get the change we need. We have already set out plans that are being discussed. We need big, fundamental reform, because the scale of the challenge is huge. There is an £8.6 billion breach this year; the OBR saw the breach coming for over 18 months, but the previous Government did absolutely nothing to prevent it. That is not a number that you get because of one or two—

One and a half hours having elapsed since the commencement of proceedings on the motion, the Deputy Speaker put the Question (Order, this day).

Question agreed to.

Resolved,

That, pursuant to the Charter for Budget Responsibility: Autumn 2022 update, which was approved by this House on 6 February 2023 under section 1 of the Budget Responsibility and National Audit Act 2011, this House agrees that the forecast breach of the welfare cap in 2024–25 due to higher forecast expenditure on Universal Credit and disability benefits is justified and that no further debate will be required in relation to this specific breach.

Welfare Cap

Resolved,

That the level of the welfare cap, as specified in the Autumn Budget 2024, which was laid before this House on 30 October 2024, be approved.—(Alison McGovern.)