Environmental Sustainability: UK-Indonesia Collaboration

Debate between Alex Sobel and Anneliese Dodds

Tuesday 23rd June 2026 Westminster Hall

[Alex Sobel (Leeds Central and Headingley) (Lab/Co-op)]

As you have made clear, Sir Jeremy, I have a little time, so I start, as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on West Papua, by dedicating my speech to our former vice-chair, Lord Harries of Pentregarth, who passed away recently. He was a fervent supporter of West Papua and, as I am sure my right hon. Friend the Member for Oxford East (Anneliese Dodds) will agree, of environmental issues. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) said, I will use this debate to highlight the world’s largest deforestation project in Merauke, West Papua, which is home to hundreds of indigenous communities, unique biodiversity and extremely rare species, and to briefly—although maybe not so briefly now, Sir Jeremy—address specific threats to the Tapanuli orangutan in Sumatra.

One of the greatest threats to Indonesia’s progress on climate and environment is a three million-hectare, Government-backed food and energy estate project in West Papua. The Financial Times has described it as the world’s largest deforestation project. It threatens a total area that is five times the size of London—we are getting in all the major UK cities in this debate—and the livelihood of 50,000 indigenous people who call the forest home. West Papua’s unique biodiversity and the irreplaceable habitat of endangered tree kangaroos, birds of paradise and many other species are at stake.

Deforestation on that scale would release a staggering 783 million tonnes of carbon dioxide, doubling Indonesia’s emissions. The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, who I have met to discuss this matter multiple times, is currently investigating indigenous rights violations in West Papua. In particular, he is investigating the Merauke Food Estate to document the evidence of displacements of Indonesian groups, land tenure violations and the use of military force. The project operates on the lands of more than 250 indigenous communities in West Papua. Customary land rights of indigenous communities are being ignored in the project areas and indigenous people are resisting.

Just this month, a 64-year-old woman from the community known as Mama Yasinta went missing. She features prominently in the film “Pesta Babi”, which is all about the Merauke project and the violations there. Mama Yasinta has since reappeared in Jakarta and issued a public statement distancing herself from the film. Her family believe that her travel to Jakarta and subsequent statements were done under duress. I hope the Minister can make representations that she should be returned to her family in West Papua in the immediate future.

The BBC has done an in-depth investigation showing involvement of both military and intelligence forces in Merauke, so there is ample evidence. Several television and film documentaries, which we can all view, rebut the claims of the Indonesian embassy and Indonesian Government that this is not a deforestation project removing absolutely unique and vital habitats.

The UK Government need to raise serious concerns bilaterally with the Government of Indonesia and discuss sustainable and climate friendly alternatives to support the country’s food and energy security plans, which I absolutely accept given the size of the population there.

[Anneliese Dodds]

My hon. Friend is making another important speech after that of my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy). Does he agree that it is concerning to hear from reports of eyewitnesses that around 40 indigenous people have been killed over the last couple of months, and that drones and booby traps are increasingly being used against indigenous people?

[Alex Sobel]

Absolutely. Unfortunately, that follows a history of 60 years of extrajudicial killings and internal displacement in what are, and have traditionally been, very thickly forested areas. The island of New Guinea, which includes Papua New Guinea, is the world’s third largest rainforest. Modern technologies, which we have seen put to very positive use in Ukraine by the Ukrainian forces and very destructive use by the Russian forces, are now being used by the Indonesian military against civilians who have no way of defending themselves. Again, that has been documented. I am pleased that my right hon. Friend the Member for Oxford East has raised that.

I am asking the Minister whether the UK can assist Indonesia in meeting its commitment to climate and nature protection through Indonesia’s plan to restore 12.7 million hectares of forests, but not in Merauke and not in virgin rainforest, which has a unique ecosystem and biodiversity.

I will briefly talk about ecocide. That is a real threat to Indonesia and its international reputation and claim to be a democracy. Ecocide is where acts create a

“substantial likelihood of severe and…widespread or long-term”

environmental damage. Although it is not a separate crime in the International Criminal Court or the International Court of Justice, the 2025 advisory opinion on the climate brought by Vanuatu very much brings ecocide into scope. The last thing that we want is a major international country like Indonesia being hauled before the International Criminal Court for a project like Merauke or some of the other mining and deforestation projects that are occurring, particularly in West Papua, but in other parts of Indonesia as well.

That leads me nicely to the threats to the Tapanuli orangutan in Batang Toru, Sumatra. The Batang Toru ecosystem in north Sumatra is the only home of the Tapanuli orangutan. Identified as a separate species in 2017, at the time their estimated number was fewer than 800. More recent surveys have shown that they are the most endangered great ape in the world, so the Indonesian Government have a special responsibility for the Tapanuli orangutan. Research suggests that losing even eight adult orangutans a year could lead to the extinction of the species.

The Tapanuli orangutan faces several threats. The Batang Toru dam, owned by the PT North Sumatra Hydro Energy company, sliced through its habitat precisely at the intersection of three subpopulations. There is also PT Agincourt’s Martabe gold mine expanding north into their habitat, as well as logging concessions, community incursions of subsistence farming and small-scale agriculture, and hunting and human-wildlife conflict. Those five threats could mean the end of the Tapanuli orangutan.

Syria

Debate between Alex Sobel and Anneliese Dodds

Thursday 19th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Anneliese Dodds]

I covered the nature of the UK’s engagement with HTS both in my statement and in my answers. Of course, it is critical that the UK is clear about the need for a future political settlement to be comprehensive and inclusive, and it must include both ethnic and religious minorities.

The right hon. Gentleman talks about the Christian minorities in Syria, many of which were appallingly persecuted over many years. As with other minorities, we need to ensure that they are protected into the future. The UK has been resolute on that point.

The right hon. Gentleman mentions chemical stockpiles, and the UK Government have been absolutely clear that those stockpiles must not be used. HTS has made a statement on this subject, and we are determined to ensure that it is held to that, and that all parties ensure that the stockpiles are destroyed, so that they can never be used.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds Central and Headingley) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for her diligent work on the very challenging situation in Syria. I am sure that she has seen the reports from places like Idlib, Aleppo, Homs and Damascus of women being forced to wear the hijab, young women being escorted, and other restrictions on women’s rights. That is in stark contrast to the position under the autonomous administration in north and east Syria, Rojava; gender equality is baked into its constitutional arrangements. What assessment has she made of HTS’s attitude towards gender equality and women’s rights? Does she think that there should be a ministry for women and gender equality in the constitutional arrangements of a future Syrian republic?

[Anneliese Dodds]

My hon. Friend raises an issue that could not be more important. When we talk about arrangements being inclusive, comprehensive and representative, that must include arrangements for the 51% of the population who are women. We must also see that girls, as well as women, are protected. When we looked at the previous humanitarian situation in Syria, we saw that there were huge issues for many women in accessing family planning and basic health services—those kinds of issues hit women particularly hard. The UK has been supporting the work of the United Nations on family planning, and we will continue to make sure that the UK is a strong advocate, both on a political level and on services for women and girls in Syria.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alex Sobel and Anneliese Dodds

Tuesday 30th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Anneliese Dodds]

The UK has encouraged dialogue between Ethiopia and Somalia on the Ethiopia-Somaliland memorandum of understanding. We have also expressed our full respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Somalia. I would of course be happy to meet the right hon. Gentleman to discuss any issue, including that one.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds Central and Headingley) (Lab/Co-op)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and his team to their places. I have discussed with many of them the chronic human rights situation in West Papua over many years. In 2019, President Widodo invited the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights to visit West Papua, but that visit has not yet taken place. What steps are the Government taking to ensure that such a visit takes place, with both the Indonesian Government and the United Nations?

Transgender Conversion Therapy

Debate between Alex Sobel and Anneliese Dodds

Monday 13th June 2022 Westminster Hall

[Anneliese Dodds (Oxford East) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to participate in this debate with you in the Chair, Mr Mundell. I am grateful to the petitioners, and I thank the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn) for opening this debate in what has been universally acknowledged as a sensitive and careful manner.

I think we are all aware that this discussion is taking place during the Pride Month—the 50th year since the first Pride march took place in London. This should be a month of celebration for LGBT+ people and their allies, after their history of struggle that was ably described by my hon. Friend the Member for Jarrow (Kate Osborne). It should be a time to celebrate the wonderful diversity of our country and for all of us in this House to recommit to doing what we can to ensure that every person in the UK is treated with dignity and respect, including LGBT people, and that they will always have the ability to love and live as they need to. The calls from my hon. Friends the Members for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard) and for City of Durham (Mary Kelly Foy) were extremely strong in that regard.

The Government had ambitious plans to mark the 50 years of Pride through, as was mentioned, their flagship Safe To Be Me: A Global Equality Conference. However, the resignation of Iain Anderson, and the withdrawal of more than 100 LGBT+ organisations and charities from Safe To Be Me in April, was a consequence of the Government’s decision to reverse their plans to ban trans conversion therapy, which is of course the subject of today’s debate.

The policy process has been chaotic. On 30 March, the Minister told the House that the Government were taking forward plans to ban conversion therapy in all its forms “on an urgent basis”. Just one day later, the news broke that the Prime Minister intended to ditch plans to ban all forms of conversion therapy, and one day after that the Government had to U-turn on that intention, only then to exclude trans conversion therapy from their plans. It appeared that no one covering equalities issues on the Government Benches, from the Foreign Secretary and Women and Equalities Minister down, was informed of No. 10’s intentions, as they changed from hour to hour.

At no point before April had the Government suggested that they were treating trans conversion therapy practices differently from those targeting sexual orientation. Their consultation was in fact explicit that an attempt to change a person from being attracted to the same sex to being attracted to the opposite sex, or from not being transgender to being transgender, would be treated in the same way as the reverse scenario.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) made clear, a ban on conversion therapy in all its forms is long overdue, so I have to ask, as so many have during this debate, why have the Government changed their mind on this subject when so many expert organisations hold a different point of view? The BMA has called conversion therapy

“an unethical and damaging practice that preys on victims of homophobia, transphobia, discrimination, and bullying.”

The Royal College of Psychiatrists says,

“Conversion therapy causes severe physical and psychological suffering”.

Many others have been mentioned in this debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham East (Nadia Whittome) mentioned the comments of Mind, the mental health charity. The NHS Confederation and the British Psychological Society were mentioned. I could go on and on. The issue is at not just a national level, but a local one, as my hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Ruth Jones) rightly said when she mentioned the organisation that she has been in contact with.

Many of the organisations that I have just listed have acknowledged, as has the Labour party, the need for clarity when introducing legislation. Labour is clear that a trans-inclusive ban must not cover psychological support and treatment, non-directive counselling, or the pastoral relationship between teachers and pupils or religious leaders and worshippers. The hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) made that particularly clear.

[Alex Sobel]

My hon. Friend is giving a customarily excellent speech. When I went to see one of my oldest and best friends Imran last year, his child was coming out as trans—as Hope. I want to share Imran’s and Hope’s words. Hope told me,

“I’m Hope and I’m 16. I’ve decided to live my life as female. My home has been very supportive and my parents have done everything they can for me. At school it has been supportive, especially my friends and teachers who have been respectful. Some students have been unkind. The attitude that most people have shown me should be the norm. Trans People are treated differently and we need to educate people.”

Imran said to me,

“It doesn’t matter what your child does or says but it’s your job to unconditionally love and support them.”

I hope we can carry their positivity, do our best for trans people and bring forward the ban.

Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [Lords]

Debate between Alex Sobel and Anneliese Dodds

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Tuesday 1st May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Anneliese Dodds]

And that Committee has been able to develop its expertise around some very complex issues. We will not have such expertise in the future without the kind of Committee that we are advocating. It will be spread across a range of Departments, as is the case with our sanctions, so there is a need for a group in which expertise can be built up among Members. Surely that is enormously important.

As the Minister said, new clause 8 would bring forward the timetable for introducing a public register for foreign-owned property in the UK, but it would do so only in relation to the Government’s current proposals. It would actually be behind the initial timetable that we were given by the Government for introducing such a register, according to which we should have seen developments last month, given that today is 1 May. I will not rehearse all the arguments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Hornsey and Wood Green (Catherine West).

[Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Global Witness has found that there are 86,000 anonymously-owned properties in the UK, many of which are empty. Does my hon. Friend agree that we should legislate so that we will know who owns these properties, and therefore be able to bring them into use by people in this country?