House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) Bill

Alex Sobel Excerpts

Committee of the whole House
Tuesday 12th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sir John Hayes]

I did not mean to patronise the hon. Member for Bolton West (Phil Brickell). I was being paternal or avuncular, rather than patronising, in how I dealt with him. It is a known fact, proven by events, that I have tended to encourage new Members to this House, perhaps to a greater degree than many other senior Members, and that includes Members from across the House. One of the things that one learns here—I spoke about the learning curve we all face—is that the relationships that pervade across this House are as important as the relationships we form on our own Benches.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds Central and Headingley) (Lab/Co-op)]

I have been here a little while—seven years—and the right hon. Member has never encouraged me, although he has scolded me once or twice. He has talked about democracy and democratic reforms on several occasions in his speech. Democracy emanates from Athens and the Greek republic. That is the origin of demos, and what does that mean? It means the common people. We are talking exactly about giving common people the right to sit, not the uncommon people of the hereditary peerage. That is the point we are talking about. Demos means universal rights for everyone, not the select few.

[Sir John Hayes]

Ms Nokes, you will not allow me to go into immense detail about Athenian democracy, although I did study ancient philosophy. The hon. Gentleman will know that Athenian democracy was very far from the democratic principles that we hold dear. Only citizens had the vote in Athens, and the assembly there was a very partial affair, and certainly it would satisfy neither you, Ms Nokes, nor other Members.

I will return to the subject in hand for a few moments before I give way to the hon. Member for Telford (Shaun Davies). Having made the case that the Bill does not afford greater legitimacy or efficacy, I want to speak about the authority of this place, the authority of the constitution, and the authority of Government. The authority of this place, as the hon. Member for Bolton West and others have argued, essentially derives from the fact that we are elected, but not just from that. It also derives in part from the balance in the relationship between this House and the other place.

Bicameral systems that pitch democratic chambers one against another are often less successful than the model that has evolved in this country. Although the upper House sometimes chastises this House—it certainly scrutinises us—and although it might clash occasionally with this House in its role as a reforming Chamber, in the end it defers to the elected House. A bicameral system borne of two Houses of Parliament, one of which is elected and one which is not, seems to me to be more desirable for that very reason: we do not have competing democratic legitimacies between the House of Commons and the House of Lords. That is why I disagree with the amendments in the name of some of my right hon. and hon. Friends and with the hon. Member for Perth and Kinross-shire (Pete Wishart).

Income tax (charge)

Alex Sobel Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

I have run a business for a much longer time than that. There are many measures in the Budget that will be very deleterious, especially for the smallest businesses, and we will have to wait and see how they turn out.

The Budget will have serious implications for farmers and rural communities in my constituency. I refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, as a farmer. I am incredibly disappointed that from 2026, agricultural property relief and business property relief will apply only to the first £1 million of assets. That will worry many in my farming community and those in many other constituencies. It will result in fewer farms to rent.

Equally damaging will be the cap on the amount that can be transferred to spouses for inheritance tax purposes. The purpose of that tax relief was to ensure that working farms that provide our food will not have to be split up after the death of a family member. Very few farms are valued under £1 million—basically only those of less than 100 acres are—and the rest will face a 20% tax. That will lead to the loss of jobs and livelihoods in the North Cotswolds and elsewhere. It will change the fabric of our countryside permanently. The structure and productivity of agriculture will change as more and more farms are split up and sold off as a result of this measure.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds Central and Headingley) (Lab/Co-op)]

I accept that the hon. Gentleman has great experience in farming, but did he read the analysis by Professor Andy Summers of the London School of Economics, which shows that the £1 million relief is on top of the £1 million couples allowance? The benchmark is really £200 million farms, and the average estate value is lower, so only about 200 estates will be affected a year. In this case, only a small number of UK farmers will be affected, and it is not the armageddon for farms that the Conservatives are claiming.

[Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown]

I suggest gently to the hon. Gentleman that, whatever the number, if the change causes damage to the farming sector and the productivity of food production, it is not helpful, and nor does it raise much money. What we surely want is measures in the Budget and elsewhere to boost the productivity of our agricultural sector so that we can produce more of the food we eat ourselves, rather than importing it from the rest of the world. I encourage the Chancellor to release any impact assessment she has done on this measure. I hope that she will reconsider this proposal, although I doubt she will.

I now turn to a topic that I have mentioned many times, and one that I will continue to raise with the Treasury. The Chancellor has talked about the difficult decisions that she has had to make on tax and spending to promote growth. May I suggest one specific policy area, tax-free shopping, which has the potential to increase growth considerably? Since we left the EU, British people have been able to shop tax-free in European states. However, we have not given the same advantage to wealthy visitors visiting the UK to spend their money here and benefit our economy. That disincentive to visit the UK will be worse if visa costs are increased. I have talked to some of the bigger businesses involved in this area, and they are seeing that instead of visiting the UK people are going to Paris, Madrid or Milan to do their duty-free shopping. We are losing out as a result.

That whole new market, unique to the UK, is worth an estimated £10 billion annually in foreign spending and would generate more than £3 billion for the Exchequer, based on an Oxford economist’s report that said that for every £1 spent by visitors, 37p was generated for the Exchequer. The only thing stopping Ministers in the last Government looking again at this issue was the Treasury’s 2020 forecasts, which unjustifiably—in my opinion—predicted little or no impact on EU visitor numbers or spending levels. That led to the wrong conclusion that there would be costs to the Exchequer, even without all the other added benefits I have mentioned for hospitality, airports and luxury goods manufacturers, which would help the economy. All the data on actual spending supplied by real businesses proves the opposite.

My only ask of the Chancellor today is that she takes the cost-free decision to review the 2020 impact forecasts in the light of overwhelming real data and this time, unlike the last, ask the OBR to scrutinise the Treasury’s forecast impact of extending the scheme to EU visitors. I would welcome the opportunity to discuss this with Ministers, and I could bring experts with me to help the discussion.

As the new Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, I remind Treasury Ministers of the report produced in the last Parliament called “Lessons learned: a planning and spending framework that enables long-term value for money”, about how the Treasury should focus on getting the best value for every £1 of taxpayers’ money spent. The PAC will scrutinise the whole of the Government’s expenditure and help them to get better value for money.

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[Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Maya Ellis) on her spirited maiden speech. Her speech, along with the other maiden speeches, underlines how new Members come here with good will in their hearts, full of good intentions and full of ideals. It is heartening to see that in new colleagues on both sides of the House.

I do not think the new Labour Government have any lack of good intentions, but this Budget is happening in something of a political bubble. Much of the Chancellor’s discourse seems to reflect a continuation of the general election campaign, which we now know could have been fought more honestly, openly and transparently by the Labour party.

That said, I am sure the Chancellor believes she has produced the best Budget for this country. The biggest cheer from the Labour Benches yesterday seemed to be for the 1p cut in draught beer duty, but I have since spoken to people in the hospitality industry, and they have described this as a shattering Budget. The money that publicans and restaurateurs will now have to pay their staff, and pay for their staff, massively dwarfs any benefit they could possibly pass on to their customers from the 1p beer duty cut. In fact, most of the increased beer prices that we will see as a result of this Budget are a direct consequence of the tax increases inflicted on businesses. I am afraid that those cheers demonstrate a complete lack of reality about the world we live in.

The character of this Budget reflects a reversion to the failed Labour policies of the 1960s and 1970s. It is naive to believe that taxing wealth creators, wealth creation and capital formation will not drive entrepreneurs and business leaders out of our country, which is happening. It is also deceiving, because the Budget reflects that Labour’s plans were not fully costed, and it is destructive of wealth, wealth creators and pensions. The Budget massively reduces people’s incentive to save into their pension pot, as they will now be taxed on what is left over at the end of their life to pass on to their children.

Of course, there is also a streak of vindictiveness towards wealth creators. I heard a Labour Member shout “Good!” when the shadow Chancellor said that we are climbing the league table of countries with higher tax rates across the economy, moving beyond Germany. The attitude that taxation is somehow an inherent good has limits, and we are going beyond those limits.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds Central and Headingley) (Lab/Co-op)]

On that point, will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir Bernard Jenkin]

I certainly will if it was the hon. Gentleman that said that—

[Alex Sobel]

indicated assent.

[Sir Bernard Jenkin]

It was. I thank him for owning up.

[Alex Sobel]

What is wrong with the German economy? The German economy has consistently performed well over the past 30 years, in excess of our economy, and has a strong industrial strategy. This Government are going to produce an industrial strategy so that we can have just as strong an economy as Germany, and a similar tax base.

[Sir Bernard Jenkin]

When Margaret Thatcher was elected in 1979, we were the sick man of Europe. What she, Lord Howe and Lord Lawson did to the British economy in that period put us on a faster growth track than the German economy. Since that time, we have been falling behind again. This Budget will help us fall behind again.

Elements of this Budget are a defiance of reality, because behind the cheer for the 1p cut on draught beer is the real world outside. I have been watching the gilt rate—the 10-year bond rate—on my telephone. It closed yesterday at 4.362% after going up substantially in the last hours of trading, and now stands at over 4.5%. That means the Budget has spooked the markets into increasing the cost of borrowing, which the Government will have to pay. The idea that these measures are pain free, and that getting more tax revenue in and borrowing more is going to bail out the economy, is very flawed.

I do not suggest there is going to be a bond crisis tomorrow, but we are enmeshed in a debt trap in this country, as are so many other mature democracies, after the energy crisis and covid, so there is likely to be another liquidity crisis of some kind over the next few years. How well prepared will this Government be, if they have already put up taxes and borrowing to spend on more consumption, rather than for our long-term economic benefit?

This is not a Budget for growth. Apart from the initial impact of the extra spending in the forthcoming year, the throttling back of expenditure, then the decline in borrowing and the burden of the extra taxes, suppresses economic growth, which the Office for Budget Responsibility is perfectly clear about. It was an empty promise for the Prime Minister to say, “We are going to prioritise economic growth.” This Budget simply does not prioritise economic growth. We have forgotten all the lessons of our economic history, learned from the disastrous policies of the 1960s and 1970s.

If socialism worked, everyone would do it. Socialism does not work. This is a more socialist Government than we have seen since the 1970s. They have forgotten what Tony Blair and Gordon Brown did. It was Gordon Brown who cut the capital gains tax rate. As Chancellor, Gordon Brown was the successor to Margaret Thatcher and continued with many of the same policies. Gordon Brown did not set up a ludicrous vanity project like Great British Energy. He did not believe that taking control of investment in a sector like energy would increase the wealth of the country. All the equivalent state-owned enterprises around Europe lose money—the Government will not make a return in that sector.

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[Alex Sobel (Leeds Central and Headingley) (Lab/Co-op)]

It has been a pleasure to listen to so many excellent maiden speeches this afternoon from new colleagues on the Government Benches. I am looking forward to hearing the remainder of the maiden speeches to be made by our fabulous new intake to this Parliament.

This Budget was about fixing the foundations, and we should take a moment to think about that word “foundations”. It was not about fixing the country or the economy, but fixing the foundations, so what underpins our country is broken. In Leeds, prior to 2010, there was one food bank and no food pantries in a city of 800,000 people. In my constituency, which is one of eight constituencies in the city, our food banks and food pantries are now in double figures. That represents an economic failure that we will fix. I hope that by the end of this Parliament, we will be closing food banks and food pantries because people will no longer need them, and we will not be having to open new ones.

There is nothing more foundational to this country than the national health service. I thank the Chancellor—my neighbour—for her continued focus on the NHS, a service that means so much to everyone in this country. The £1 billion capital investment to address the backlog of repairs and upgrades to outdated NHS infrastructure is a crucial step forward. I also want to acknowledge the £1.5 billion in capital funding that will be focused on increasing capacity in our health service, through new hospitals, surgical hubs, diagnostic tests and diagnostic centres.

I am particularly grateful to hear confirmation that the Health Secretary will be providing further details of the new hospital programme in the new year. With that in mind, I would like to make a strong case for the prioritisation of the Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS Trust’s hospitals of the future project. Leeds is home to one of the largest and busiest acute trusts in the country, treating more than 1.6 million patients each year. The trust includes one of the largest centres for children and young people in the country, which cares for over 250,000 children annually and supports the birth of more than 8,000 babies.

Despite the progress made by the trust, it faces significant operational challenges because of outdated infrastructure. Some parts of the Leeds General Infirmary in my constituency date back to the Victorian era. Maintenance of such an old estate is an enormous financial strain, with backlog maintenance costs now exceeding £630 million. The previous Government’s delays in the new hospital programme have already added an extra £300 million in costs to the trust. These challenges are not just financial; they directly impact our ability to deliver care to the people of Leeds. I have been to the Portland building and seen that three floors are shut. I know that the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care has also visited the site. What is going on is not acceptable.

The hospitals of the future project will create the Leeds innovation village, delivering £13 billion in economic benefit and creating more than 4,000 jobs—delivering part of the vision that Lord Darzi had. For every £1 invested, there will be a return of £12 in public benefit—both to the NHS and the taxpayer. That is real efficiency and real productivity in public services.

Leeds is ready to deliver. The trust has already secured outline business case approval and planning consent, and has completed significant enabling works. The new hospital will be a net zero carbon building, designed to meet the highest standards of sustainability and digital innovation. This will not only improve the quality of care, but set a national benchmark for environmentally friendly and efficient healthcare infrastructure. I urge my constituency neighbour, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the Health and Social Care Secretary to ensure that the Leeds hospitals of the future project is given the priority that it deserves in the upcoming review of the new hospital programme. Leeds is ready to go. We have the approval, the plans and the commitment. We just need the green light to get on with it.

My constituency is a significant cultural centre. Earlier this year, under the previous Government, Michael Gove committed £5 million to the National Poetry Centre, but, unfortunately, it was £5 million that he did not have. The centre will be sited by the University of Leeds in my constituency. Yesterday, we received the news that the £5 million of funding was under review, subject to consultation. I hope the Chancellor, or a Treasury Minister —I see that there are a couple on the Front Bench—will meet me and the poet laureate, who has made this centre his passion project, to ensure that this centre adds to our national cultural life.

The British Library in the North is situated in my neighbouring constituency of Leeds South, just a few hundred yards from my own constituency, and it received very similar news. I hope that we can meet the relevant Ministers in both the Treasury and the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to ensure that these projects do not flounder under the false promises of the previous Government.

Like many other colleagues, I am also pleased about the funding commitment for special educational needs. I meet so many parents who cannot even find a place in an appropriate school for their SEN children. Some have to travel many miles to be able to get the education that they deserve. The £1 billion funding promise yesterday, which is 6% above inflation, will hopefully provide a new school, or schools, in Leeds for SEN children, with new teachers and I will no longer have to knock on doors and meet parents saying, “My child is not going to school, because there is not an appropriate place in our city”.

Finally, let me turn to devolution. I am sure that you will agree, Madam Deputy Speaker, that devolution has been a success in West Yorkshire. We have seen our bus fares capped at £2, and I know that the mayor is committed to keeping that going. We have also had a huge increase in lifelong learning and the skills agenda. None the less, Leeds is still the largest city in Europe without mass transit. It was great to hear the Chancellor recommit to that mass transit yesterday, and that West Yorkshire will receive part of the integrated settlement to deliver that.

We have only had a mayor in West Yorkshire since 2021, but I understand from a letter that she has received that West Yorkshire will be included in the integrated settlement in 2026, two years ahead of schedule if we look at previous integrated settlements that have been announced and the length of time that those authorities have had a mayor. That shows the exemplary leadership that we have in West Yorkshire at parliamentary level, at local council level and, most of all, at mayoral level with Tracy Brabin. West Yorkshire is ready to deliver in transport, in health, in education and in all areas. I know that my colleagues on the Treasury Bench will be supporting us, and I shall be supporting this Budget.

Anniversary of 7 October Attacks: Middle East

Alex Sobel Excerpts

Monday 7th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Alex Sobel (Leeds Central and Headingley) (Lab/Co-op)]

Today is a day of mourning for all those who lost family members on 7 October and those hostages in the tunnels lost since then, and for all those civilians in Gaza, the west bank and now in Lebanon. Like the Prime Minister, I have been meeting hostage families all this past year. The only time hostages got released was when there was a hostage-prisoner deal on 22 November last year and some 150 prisoners and 50 hostages were released. Has the Prime Ministers spoken to the Israeli Government about another deal to allow the hostages to be released through swapping them with political prisoners held in Israeli jails?

[The Prime Minister]

I accept my hon. Friend’s point that it is through a cessation of hostilities that the space can be created for the release of hostages. Yes, of course we talk to leaders, including in Israel, the whole time about how that can be brought about. It is the central focus of all our discussions with Israel and with our allies.

Action Against Houthi Maritime Attacks

Alex Sobel Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd January 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question and comments. I agree that we are committed to a two-state solution, because that is the only way we can bring about a future where Palestinians and Israelis can live side by side with the security they deserve, with dignity and with opportunity. The events of the last few months remind us that we must redouble our efforts to bring about that outcome. I remain confident, because of the engagement that we are having, that we can make progress on that aim.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister said, “We urge the Houthis, and those who enable them, to stop these illegal and unacceptable attacks.” He then spoke only about Iran in terms of those who enable them. Who else is enabling the Houthis, and what action are the UK and its allies taking to stop them and their supply of weapons and other support to the Houthis?

[The Prime Minister]

I particularly mentioned Iran with good reason, because it is one of the primary suppliers of weapons to the Houthis. That is why in the past we have interdicted those shipments. Iran’s behaviour remains of primary concern to us. It is the significant destabilising actor in the region, and it will continue to be a focus of our diplomatic efforts. More broadly, we want to see peace and stability in the region across the board. Diplomatically and otherwise, we will work hard to bring that about.

Defending the UK and Allies

Alex Sobel Excerpts

Monday 15th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

As I said, it was necessary to act with speed to allow our armed forces to maintain the vital security of their operations and to ensure their effectiveness. I believe that that is in accordance with the convention on the deployment of military force. As I said previously, we must maintain the prerogative powers that allow the Executive to act in such emergencies, but I am here in Parliament to explain the action in full and take responsibility for it.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister, earlier in his statement, said that the Houthis were aided by Iranian military intelligence assets to target British shipping. Does that mean that the UK Government consider Iranian military intelligence assets to be legitimate targets for future military strikes?

[The Prime Minister]

I think what I said was that we agree with the US assessment that Iran supported Houthi attacks and provided intelligence in a general sense to enable Houthi targeting of vessels. I have talked about the destabilising influence of Iran in the region and the threat it poses to the UK. That is why we have taken significant and decisive action to protect ourselves against that threat and will continue to work with our allies to restrain its malign influence.

Pakistan: Evacuation of Afghans

Alex Sobel Excerpts

Wednesday 8th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Johnny Mercer]

This Government have put £400 million of extra spending into SFA; I recognise the problems with the quality of that SFA, which have been a challenge over many years. I do not want anybody coming back into the UK and living in service family accommodation that is not suitable for them. The Ministry of Defence is bending over backwards, as is my right hon. Friend the Minister for Armed Forces, to ensure that this stuff is online and suitable. Investment is going in, but I am determined that individuals will live in housing that is suitable for them, and I will personally be visiting them to make sure that they are.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I have been trying to get a group of interpreters trained by the University of Leeds from Pakistan to here for the last two years. It would be useful if the Minister could let me know who is eligible for the flights and how they will be contacted. The Minister also said that he had visited every hotel in the country. I have a hotel in my constituency and I do not remember him informing me that he was coming, but I would welcome him coming to that hotel, because everybody now has to be in a shared room and the facilities are not good.

[Johnny Mercer]

I would be interested to learn which hotel that is, because I do not want to see people in shared rooms, so I will speak to the hon. Gentleman after this urgent question. If he writes to me with the specific details of those interpreters, I will assess his case and determine which pathway is best to apply for and their certain eligibility to do so. However, I am particularly interested in the hotel and, if that situation is ongoing today, I will sort it out.

NATO Summit

Alex Sobel Excerpts

Thursday 13th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The Italian Prime Minister and I spent time discussing that. Indeed, she and I raised it in the NATO sessions. It is something we agreed to work jointly on, because it is clear that illegal migration is one of the new threats we face, whether it is being weaponised by Belarus or coming from Wagner-oriented action in Africa. It is right that we, as an alliance, do what we can to share intelligence and strengthen our co-operation to break the cycle of criminal gangs and stop illegal migration.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op)]

As a co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on Ukraine, I know how steadfast support for Ukraine is right across the House. Ukraine is not just defending itself; it is defending the UK and people right across Europe, so I was disappointed to hear the Defence Secretary’s comments about not being Amazon. Does the Prime Minister disassociate himself from those comments? A year ago, the UK-led international effort to create a fund of £770 million for military aid, but none has been delivered. When will that military aid arrive in Ukraine?

[The Prime Minister]

As I said, President Zelensky and the people of Ukraine are incredibly grateful for all the leadership and support shown by the British Government and the British people. One thing we did was to co-ordinate the International Fund for Ukraine among our allies. We continue to do that, and to ensure we deliver vital supplies to Ukrainian armed forces.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alex Sobel Excerpts

Wednesday 18th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend put that very well. She is right to make the point that what we are proposing is in line with the vast majority of other countries around the world. Indeed, many countries ban strikes in blue-light services altogether, which we are not doing. We are joining countries across continental Europe in having minimum safety laws, as I think the public would reasonably expect a level of emergency life-saving care in the event of strikes. That is a common-sense, reasonable position to take, and we all know why the party opposite cannot bring itself to support it.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Q12. This month, the right hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi) was forced to pay millions to His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to settle a tax dispute. Was the Prime Minister aware of the investigation when he appointed the right hon. Gentleman to his Cabinet and as chairman of the Conservative party? Will the Prime Minister demand accountability from his Cabinet members over their tax affairs?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend has already addressed the matter in full and there is nothing more that I can add.

Standards in Public Life

Alex Sobel Excerpts

Tuesday 7th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Once again, the Labour party has to use one of our precious Opposition days to debate not the cost of living, NHS waiting times, court delays, falling apprenticeship numbers or any of the other manifest ways in which the Government are failing, but the standards and conduct of the Prime Minister. I do not say that critically—I am pleased that we have chosen to use today’s debate for that purpose—but it shows once again why the Prime Minister is not able to get on with it as a result of yesterday’s vote: in fact, he is the distraction that prevents this House from moving on. It shows why the 148 of his Members of Parliament who voted yesterday that they had no confidence in him were right.

British parliamentarians have often been asked to go overseas to nations considered to be less developed and provide them with advice about what a functioning democracy looks like. It is not an exaggeration to say that if we arrived as parliamentarians in another country to find that it had a leader whose response to being convicted of breaking the law was not to set about changing his behaviour, but to lower the standards to which members of his Government could be held, we would take a very dim view of that sort of democracy—but that is precisely what is happening here in the United Kingdom.

I have never had any regard for the political priorities of the Conservative party. I do not expect Tory Governments to be good for my constituency or to share my values. But I have respected the fact that, regardless of the difference in approach to matters such as public services and the economy, when it came to the basic rule of law there were things that united parliamentarians of all parties. Under this Prime Minister, I fear that that is no longer the case. That is why it is so important that Conservative Members are willing to be brave enough to stand up and speak out, because some of these matters are more important than narrow party political advantage, and so it is with today’s debate; and that is why I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Newton Abbott, who resigned yesterday as the Prime Minister’s anti-corruption tsar. I think that his letter was of real significance. He wrote to the Prime Minister:

“The only fair conclusion to draw from the Sue Gray report is that you have breached a fundamental principle of the ministerial code – a clear resigning matter.

Butt your letter to your independent adviser on the ministerial code ignores this absolutely central, non-negotiable issue completely. And, if it had addressed it, it is hard to see how it could have reached any other conclusion than that you had broken the code.”

I think those words are incredibly significant, I think they are brave, and I think the hon. Gentleman should be commended for having written them.

The Prime Minister’s own briefing to Conservative Members, which featured widely on Twitter yesterday, suggests that they must tolerate his behaviour because no one else is capable of leading them. I am afraid that too many people are missing the point here. The hon. Member for Devizes (Danny Kruger) said earlier that we were raising this issue because we did not like the Prime Minister, and he advocated a system of self-regulation. I think that if Conservative Members look daily at the Prime Minister and think, “There is no one in our whole parliamentary party with 360-odd members who could possibly perform in this way”, they must have a pretty low opinion of themselves, and I think that they may be wrong. I also think that the question of standards is not about whether or not one likes a person, but about whether the behaviour that that person has exhibited is tolerable in a functioning democracy, and I am afraid that, in the case of this Prime Minister, it is absolutely not.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op)]

One way to cheat is to change the rules. We have seen the rules in the ministerial code being changed, and we are seeing a general levelling down of standards in public life. The idea that the Government can carry on marking their own homework is absurd. Does my hon. Friend agree that we need an independent commission on ethics and standards in public life, so that there is some accountability?

[Mr Perkins]

I certainly do. That is why I am happy to support the motion today, and why I was happy to support the committee’s recommendations.

I agree with Lord Evans that a graduated sanctions approach must go hand in hand with increasing the independence of the adviser. Recommendation 6 states:

“The Ministerial Code should detail a range of sanctions the Prime Minister may issue, including, but not limited to, apologies, fines, and asking for a minister’s resignation.”

The Paymaster General spoke about that more graduated approach, and I agree with that, but I also agree with Lord Evans that it must go hand in hand with recommendation 8, which states:

“ The Independent Adviser should be able to initiate investigations into breaches of the Ministerial Code”

—the Government propose not to heed that—and with recommendation 9, which states:

“The Independent Adviser should have the authority to determine breaches of the Ministerial Code.”

That seems to be the point: that the independent adviser determines whether the code has been breached, and it is for the Prime Minister then to decide what sanctions should be applied. What we have now, however, as we heard from the Paymaster General, is an approach whereby if the Prime Minister believes that he still has confidence in people—and I suspect that he will have confidence in the Culture Secretary almost regardless of what she says, because of her slavish support—that is good enough, and no standards are relevant.

As we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), all of us in this place suffer from the allegation that “they are all the same.” Despair is the most corrosive emotion possible when it comes to politics, because it leads people to disengage and to decide that there is no point in engaging in politics in any way. The right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) spoke of a cross-party consensus, but how is that possible if the Prime Minister is willing, for political reasons, to overlook breaches of any kind if he thinks that it is in his political interests to do so?

A politically motivated standards regime that allows rules to be rewritten if they become inconvenient, and places the future of Ministers in the hands of the Prime Minister to vanquish or rescue as he sees fit, is not itself fit for the 21st century in a supposedly developed democracy. How can it be that the ministerial code, detailing the way in which those at the very top of the political tree operate, actually lags behind that which applies to MPs, peers and civil servants?

I also support the committee’s recommendation for reform of the powers of the commissioner for public appointments to provide a better guarantee of the independence of assessment panels.

Our politics is suffering from a crisis of public confidence, which is particularly dangerous at a time of national economic difficulty such as the one that we are currently experiencing. Only by increasing the independence and clarity of the rules and the rule arbiters can we have a hope of restoring public confidence in our politics, and it is for that reason that I support the motion.

Referral of Prime Minister to Committee of Privileges

Alex Sobel Excerpts

Thursday 21st April 2022 Commons Chamber

[Alex Sobel (Leeds North West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I will not speak for long, as I do not want to delay the House. I will merely give a perspective on both the principle of the motion and the standing of the House in relation to the motion. The motion hinges on whether there should be due consideration by the Committee of Privileges of whether the Prime Minister’s conduct amounted to contempt of this House. The gravity of the charge is great. Although the hard power of this House is to legislate, it also has a great deal of soft power at its disposal, but that entirely rests on its standing with the public—not just in the United Kingdom but, as my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) said, right around the international community. Once the public no longer believe that the House is a place where honest answers are given, the credibility of its role in public life will continue to diminish—and it has taken an awful battering over the past two years. The hard power of the House is also undermined, as people take less notice of the rules we make if we break them, and then, worse, deny knowledge of breaking them.

The public rely on many different services for our society to function, and all those services’ ability to function emanates from the writs given to them by this place. During covid, that was doubly important, as we needed the consent of people to stop the spread of infection. The fire service did an incredible job in supporting people during the pandemic, as did the magistrates courts. Both had to enact the rules that we made, and both were central in that task.

I will briefly mention my friend Jules, who served for nearly 30 years as a firefighter and 20 years as a magistrate. Julian Jenkins was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma in 2019. He was making good progress with his recovery and was in good spirits when I saw him during last year’s May recess with his partner Helen, with whom I attended university, and who has been a lifelong friend. However, he contracted covid in August 2021 and tragically passed away. Jules was only beginning to enjoy his retirement after a lifetime of public service, but that was snatched away from him.

I will now directly quote Helen, so I will make use of Members’ names, but these are her words, not mine. Helen said:

“I always feel sadness at the loss of my partner but at the moment my overriding emotion is anger and frustration. Anger at what Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunak and other government officials have done and frustration that they still won’t accept responsibility. If you make the laws, then immediately break the laws you made and are then found guilty and fined, you have no credibility to govern. Johnson and Sunak lack any moral authority, which is essential when making future legislation, not just Covid-related but in general.”

We need to restore credibility to this House, and sunshine is the best disinfectant, so we must vote in favour of the motion for Jules, Helen and all the families affected by covid. If rule makers become rule breakers, they must be held accountable, which is what the House must do. That is why we must pass the motion today.