Counter-Daesh Update

Alex Chalk Excerpts

Tuesday 7th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

With great respect, I think that I have answered the hon. Gentleman’s point. I was giving the Foreign Affairs Committee an account of the allegations made that I had personally heard, in the course of my intercessions, from the Iranians. I do not for one minute believe that they are true, but that is what they say. Our job now as diplomats—and I hope that we have the support of the entire House of Commons—is to get Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe released. The best way to do that is not to score party political points but to concentrate our energies and our criticism on those who are actually responsible for her incarceration.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

Taking the fight to Daesh in Syria was a difficult but right thing to do, eroding its territorial base and resources, but in some ways that was the easy bit, because the warped ideology endures. Does my right hon. Friend agree that we must continue to support the security services, including those in my constituency, who are skilfully and conscientiously taking the fight to the extremists online?

[Boris Johnson]

I completely agree. The fight online can be every bit as valuable in saving lives as the struggle in Iraq and Syria.

Balfour Declaration

Alex Chalk Excerpts

Monday 30th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

It is wholly untrue to say that we have offered the Palestinians nothing but warm words. The hon. Gentleman should consider the huge sums that the UK gives to the Palestinian authorities, the massive efforts that we make to help them with their security concerns, and the intimate co-operation that takes place between the UK and the Palestinian Authority. We are doing everything in our power to ready the Palestinians for statehood, but we do not consider that they are ready for recognition yet. This is obviously not the moment, given the problems that Mahmoud Abbas is experiencing. We think that a much more productive approach would be getting both sides together and beginning the process of negotiation on the basis of the programme that I have outlined today, leading to a two-state solution. That is what we need.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s measured statement, and his optimism about the prospects for a two-state solution with Israel, rightly, living in security. Does he agree, however, that the accelerated settlement-building is not just to be gently deprecated but is truly egregious, illegal, and a growing obstacle to peace?

[Boris Johnson]

I totally agree with my hon. Friend, and that is the language that we have been using. It is what my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Middle East has said time and again during his trips to the region. Indeed, whenever representatives of either party have come to this country we have strongly condemned the building of illegal settlement units, and we have denounced the recent acceleration in the building of those units. We think that that is making it more difficult to achieve a two-state solution, but it is not yet impossible, which is why we want to seize this opportunity.

Hurricane Irma: Government Response

Alex Chalk Excerpts

Tuesday 12th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Sir Alan Duncan]

To take one person’s comments and say that they describe the overall picture is deeply unfair. What we have done in Anguilla has been a great help. As I have said, RFA Mounts Bay got the power in the hospital going again and delivered supplies. It also got the airport going again before it went to help the British Virgin Islands. Unlike the British Virgin Islands, however, Anguilla has not asked for UK consular support. The Government are still leading on that. The hon. Gentleman really just needs to hold back on his criticism and appreciate that a lot is being done in the midst of this very complicated post-hurricane mayhem, although any kind of complaint is quite understandable because so many people are in deep distress.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

I acknowledge that the Minister does not have direct departmental responsibility for this, but may I press him on the issue of our international aid budget? Given our close connections with, and responsibilities for, the British overseas territories, does he agree that the Government should look urgently at ensuring that that budget will help to provide the necessary wide pipeline of aid in the months and years to come?

[Sir Alan Duncan]

I am tempted to commit DFID to spending lots of money, as I would wish, but I am sure that my hon. Friend will appreciate that we will have to assess future budgets. I am sure that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Development will make her plans clear in due course, once we have been able to work out how to proceed in those distressed and, in many cases, devastated islands. May I add a tiny thing to an answer I gave earlier? The Mounts Bay used its helicopter to drop a significant amount of water and food on Jost van Dyke yesterday and has done an enormous amount to prioritise the need that we are addressing.

Korean Peninsula

Alex Chalk Excerpts

Tuesday 5th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

I am grateful for the opportunity to point out that that is an entirely hypothetical question. I am very impressed by the mood of moderation in the House today. Everybody really wants a peaceful diplomatic solution, and that is what we are working towards.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

Is it not a reality that further sanctions are unlikely to persuade this depraved regime to give up its illegal nuclear programme, even though it is beggaring its people in the process? Has the time not come to press again for six-party talks to include the North Korean regime if necessary?

[Boris Johnson]

My hon. Friend is very thoughtful on these matters. What we want is to freeze the North Korean nuclear programme, and diplomatic means are the best way forward.

US Immigration Policy

Alex Chalk Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

Of course, most countries in the middle east are exempt from these provisions, but we will work with the incoming Administration to address all the crises in the middle east, including those affecting the countries concerned.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

I congratulate the Foreign Secretary on standing up for British nationals. It is right that we remain a close friend of the United States, but will my right hon. Friend also point out as a candid friend to the US Administration that we should steer clear of policies that could act inadvertently as a recruiting sergeant for Daesh?

Libya

Alex Chalk Excerpts

Wednesday 26th October 2016 Westminster Hall

[Charlotte Leslie]

My hon. Friend refers to a nursery rhyme; I was going to say that we have a slightly short attention span and in many ways a fairytale view of foreign policy—“It’s all going to be fine and everyone will live happily ever after once we’ve done the nice thing that the Twitterati will approve of.” We are where we are.

We in the west in general—I do not intend to label any one person as responsible—make two mistakes. First, we tend to see situations in a binary way. We are quick to call the good guys the good guys and the bad guys the bad guys. That has led us to be allies with questionable people just because we want to defeat Daesh. Does that really mean that we should align ourselves with Islamists who perhaps have ideas not that different from Daesh? The reason that they are anti-Daesh may be that they see it as a competitor in the region, not that they share our values.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

I remember that those who advocated attacking Iraq back in 2003 pointed to an atrocity that Saddam Hussein had undoubtedly perpetrated against the Kurds in Halabja some 15 years or so before as a pretext for launching strikes. Do we not have to be clear that there is an ever-present opportunity in the middle east to make a horrendous situation full of human rights abuses even worse?

[Charlotte Leslie]

Absolutely. A theme that has arisen again and again in this Chamber is the tension between stability and freedoms, and the extent to which we match our concern with alleviating human rights abuses with a concern with maintaining stability. Once stability goes in a country, there are an awful lot more human rights abuses, however many there were beforehand.

--- Later in debate ---

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I am grateful to my very good and hon. Friend the Member for Spelthorne (Kwasi Kwarteng) for getting this debate going. I take issue slightly with the comments on the decision in 2011. I felt that we had no choice but to save the people of Benghazi. We did not think of the consequences; we had damn all time to look downstream. I felt that the decision was quite right. My experience of watching people die when there is military inaction was why I supported military operations against Gaddafi.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West (Charlotte Leslie) raised this matter. It is very sad that, throughout the middle east, stability and safety and a normal society so that children can go to school often seems to require a strong person, normally or even always a man, to be in charge of the country. Democracy such as we have in this country is only a serious long-term wish.

[Alex Chalk]

Is there a lesson from British history? If we go back to a time before there was a civil service, before there were all the organs of the state, it required a strong man in the form of the King to keep the King’s peace. That is a lesson from our own history that we would do well to observe.

[Bob Stewart]

I entirely take that point, which in fact reinforces the point I was making. It seems, therefore, that people such as Saddam and Gaddafi sometimes work for the majority of people in a country. For some, of course, they do not. Libya is seemingly ungovernable at the moment. Some say that there are two Parliaments, and huge numbers—thousands—of militias and generals running around. It is a ghastly place. My hon. Friend the Member for Spelthorne mentioned 1,600 militias—goodness, that is a heck of a lot. However, with apologies to my good and hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West, I shall concentrate on Daesh and what it could do in Libya.

I have no intelligence information on this—it is all open source—but I am told that Daesh started moving into Libya in about 2014, when it was looking for an alternative place. It found that in Sirte. When we talk about Sirte, I, as a military officer, am always reminded of David Stirling and his SAS raids on Sirte airfield, which other hon. Members are nodding about, and the gallant actions of those young men, who were mainly from New Zealand, in those days. [Interruption.] I am so sorry: the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) reminds me that the Irish were there, too. We are always reminded of the Irish, Mr Chope, because they apparently have more Victoria Crosses than the English, the Welsh and the Scots put together. Mind you, I have to say, just to add a lighter note, that I am quite sure they were a bit pickled when they won them.

According to open sources, there are about 4,000 to 6,000 Daesh people operating in Sirte and around there. What is the threat? What threat are these guys going to make against us? I think it is not as bad as it could be. They are stuck in an enclave in Sirte. Perhaps they are being hellish inside it, but if I were a Daesh commander, I would not put my operatives into a leaky boat full of migrants or refugees, with scant chance of making it across the Mediterranean. I am also sure that when they do get to Europe the security forces of the country check them out thoroughly before they get ashore.

I would not take that course of action, so how else do they get into Europe? To the east they would be going into Egypt. President Sisi is adamantly determined to wipe out terrorist groups such as Daesh, and has set the armed forces and security forces firmly against them. Again, he is a strong man in the middle east. Tunisia, after the tragedy of Sousse and Tunis last year, has decided to put up a great barricade across the border. That is being done fairly effectively, although it is not complete. Algeria is 1,000 miles away, but the Algerians too are effective at chasing down Islamists trying to cross into their territory. It is not easy to get into Europe. My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West mentioned going south across the Sahara, but that is a pretty dodgy route to try.

I am thinking about the threat to us from the people in question—being a member of the Defence Committee, of course I am thinking in that way. They are holed up, but it is quite clear that we have to eliminate them. We will support anything that helps with their elimination. The objective of eliminating Daesh and other terrorist organisations in Libyan society is crucial, but, as other Members and particularly my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West have suggested, Daesh is just one. If it is squashed, it will come out in some other form. Somehow, politically, Libya has to find a way. Whether that involves a strong person or not, I am sure of one thing: it took us 800 years to get to our imperfect democracy, and it cannot be imposed quickly. As others have suggested, there will be a Libyan model. I hope it comes quickly for the sake of the decent, normal people of Libya.

Dog Meat (South Korea)

Alex Chalk Excerpts

Monday 12th September 2016 Westminster Hall

[Dr Paul Monaghan (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (SNP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Hertsmere (Oliver Dowden) on leading this debate so effectively, and also congratulate other Members on contributing in a very positive and intelligent manner.

E-petition 120702 has attracted over 100,000 signatures —many from Scotland—and I feel that reflects widespread concern across the nations of the UK about animal welfare generally, and the welfare of dogs in particular. Today we have heard alarming and upsetting reports of dogs being mistreated and abused in the dog meat trade; however, we must be cautious in our approach towards other countries’ cultural practices and be sensitive in working to bring about change, as noted by my hon. Friend the Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier). This is particularly the case given the prevalence of animal crimes such as dog fighting in the UK. It is clearly important that we recognise our own weaknesses and respect the sovereignty of other nations. Again, I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) for making that point so clearly, along with the hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson).

Many Asian countries have only relatively recently begun to consider dogs as pets and so the animals are viewed very differently from the way they are viewed in the west. The reverse is also true. Some Asian countries consider cattle and pigs in very sacred terms and view our slaughter and consumption of those species as completely unacceptable. I hope that highlights the extent to which we must be mindful of other nations’ rights and cultural practices. Again, that point was well made by the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy).

The SNP Government in Scotland take the welfare of animals very seriously and have led the way in protecting and promoting animal rights. I wish that approach to be sustained. In that context, my colleagues and I in the Scottish National party strongly condemn the abuse and inhumane treatment of all animals, including dogs within the dog meat trade. We encourage a cautious and culturally sensitive approach to bringing about change that supports animal rights groups in South Korea, and indeed, in other countries. Some progress is being made in that regard, with a growing political movement in South Korea championing animal rights. We should encourage that movement, as I think we all agree.

E-petition 120702, which relates specifically to South Korea and the dog meat trade, seeks to urge the South Korean Government to end the unsympathetic and often brutal treatment of dogs. We know that in South Korea an estimated 5 million dogs are slaughtered every year for their meat and we understand that during the 1988 Seoul Olympics, the South Korean Government attempted to hide dog meat restaurants from the international media to avoid criticism. That act implies, of course, both an awareness of the dog meat industry in South Korea and, perhaps more importantly, an understanding by South Korea of how that trade is perceived by the outside world.

Thirty years later, many of us here today are concerned that the International Olympic Committee has authorised South Korea to hold the 2018 winter Olympics, given that the use and abuse of dogs remains the same, if perhaps not worse, as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) suggested. On behalf of the Scottish National Party, I ask the UK Government to speak against the IOC’s judgment and ask the South Korean Government to respond to the dog meat issues identified here today, with a view to making the abuse of dogs in this trade illegal.

I alluded earlier to the fact that South Korea is not alone in allowing the breeding and slaughter of dogs for human consumption. As we have heard, the World Dog Alliance has produced an important analysis of this lucrative trade across Asia. Sadly, the trade is common across Asia, with countries such as China, the Philippines and Vietnam, in addition to South Korea, considering it culturally acceptable to varying degrees to eat dog meat. Many will be surprised, however, to learn that dog meat is also consumed in Switzerland, Mexico, the Arctic and the Antarctic, despite most western cultures considering the slaughter of dogs for meat unacceptable.

What is perhaps important here is the condition in which dogs are often kept prior to being slaughtered for human consumption. Some argue that dogs are often tortured before being killed because of a belief that it causes their meat to be tender. There are also concerns that most so-called “meat dogs” are stolen companion dogs and strays who are kept in terrible conditions while being transported from country to country. There are distressing accounts that reflect practices that are inconsistent with the Korea Food and Drug Administration’s regulations classifying dog meat as a “repugnant” food.

I am also pleased that South Korea’s Animal Protection Amendment Act 2007 expressly prohibits some cruel methods used by people in the dog meat trade to handle and slaughter dogs. However, animal rights groups have found that the regulations have had little impact to date on the trade in dog meat. Perhaps more promisingly, animal rights groups have pointed out that the consumption of dog meat is going out of favour with younger generations. Again, that should be encouraged.

Given that there are no international laws prohibiting the consumption of dog meat, the challenge for the UK Government is not one of intervening or implementing trade measures against countries where the consumption of dog meat is regarded as culturally acceptable, it is one of diplomacy—and for the UK Government to instruct ambassadors and Foreign Office officials to raise the issues highlighted here today with the Governments of China, the Philippines, Vietnam, Switzerland, Mexico, South Korea and others.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that for those approaches to be successful, they have to be handled extremely sensitively to avoid them being counter-productive? If they are handled sensitively, that gives us the best chance of achieving the progress we all want to see.

[Dr Monaghan]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. Clearly, if we are to have an impact and an influence on other nations that are trading in dog meat and allowing its consumption, we have to do so very sensitively, in ways that are culturally sensitive and reflective of our practices here in the UK.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alex Chalk Excerpts

Tuesday 12th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Swire]

The Prime Minister wrote to Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina on 2 July to extend his condolences. I spoke to Foreign Minister Ali on 5 July to express my condemnation of this senseless act of horror.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

7. What recent assessment he has made of the strength of diplomatic and economic relations between India and the UK.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr Hugo Swire)]

Our relations with India remain extremely good. Only this week, I spoke to a high-level group of Indian businessmen here in the United Kingdom, and of course they wanted to know what is happening now with our relationship with India following the recent referendum.

[Alex Chalk]

For individuals and businesses in Cheltenham, the UK’s relationship with India is increasingly important. How will it change post-Brexit?

[Mr Swire]

We still have in this country 1.5 million Indians or people of Indian descent, so the connections are huge and robust. People come to the UK a lot and people go to India a lot. Clearly, early talks about the shape of our trade relationship with India will form part of our discussions over the next year or so.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hammond]

The hon. Lady knows that if we were minded to commit combat forces to activity in Libya, we would first come to the House of Commons. We are working very closely with the Government of National Accord, including talking to them about how we can use exemptions from the UN arms embargo to forge a closer working relationship between militias and that Government. She will be interested to know that later this afternoon I will meet Prime Minister Sarraj here in London.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Philip Hammond)]

My priority is to ensure that we continue to address, head on, Islamist extremism and the threats to the rules-based international system, while at the same time pivoting resources to respond to the major foreign policy challenge of implementing the UK’s decision to leave the EU and negotiating the terms of Britain’s future relationship with the EU 27.

[Alex Chalk]

Britain is a global trading nation. What steps have been taken to ensure that our embassies and high commissions around the world are in the best possible position to forge excellent trading deals for the United Kingdom?

[Mr Hammond]

As one of my colleagues said earlier, last week we had all our senior people in London for the annual leadership conference, and I clearly set out to them the challenge to the Foreign Office and its network as we move into this new phase where we will seek to redouble our efforts to build trade relationships around the world beyond the European Union. I can tell my hon. Friend, and the House, that I got the resounding response that they are up for that challenge.

EU Membership: Economic Benefits

Alex Chalk Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)]

A few moments ago, my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Neil Carmichael) made a passionate and magnificent speech in support of our membership of the European Union. He and I have been on the same side on this matter for many years, and I endorse every word that he said.

Let me begin by referring, like the hon. Member for Copeland (Mr Reed), to matters that particularly affect my constituents. The largest employment sector in Bromley and Chislehurst, in Greater London, is its business and financial services sector. According to the Office for National Statistics business and employment survey, 32.4% of my constituents and their families work in that sector. It is critical to their local economy—and that is leaving aside all the jobs in the supply chain that result from the income that it provides. It is crucial to the London economy, which benefits the whole of the United Kingdom. Leaving the European Union would, without question, damage the interests of the financial services industry, in which Britain is a world leader. This is an issue in which I have taken some interest in my capacity as secretary of the all-party parliamentary group on wholesale financial markets and services.

We have a winner here, and we have an opportunity not just to make it survive, but to make it better and stronger in a reformed European Union. That is why, when I intervened on the Foreign Secretary’s speech, I wanted to stress the importance of the Prime Minister’s renegotiation achievements. There were two key achievements. First, there was the commitment that British financial firms based here in the UK, and therefore outside the eurozone—of which we will never be members: we will never be subject to its internal governance rules or their bail-outs—will none the less have the significant advantage of being able to trade freely within the eurozone and the rest of the single market. That puts us in a unique position which no other free trade agreement replicates.

If we add to that the commitment in that renegotiation to completion of the capital markets union, that gives us a double opportunity to push forward in this area, at which we excel. It would be lunacy to walk away from that opportunity. Of course the Prime Minister is right to say we could survive outside the EU; London and the financial services industry, and my constituents, would survive, but I believe there is a real risk that they would be impoverished and I see nothing patriotic in running the risk of impoverishing my constituents or the people of this country.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech and makes an important point about patriotism. Does he agree that key to Britain’s national security is our economic security, and at a time when as a nation we are still borrowing as a nation more than the entire defence budget we need every single penny of public revenue to ensure our economy is strong, our finances are strong and our country is strong?

Libya

Alex Chalk Excerpts

Tuesday 19th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

This was a complicated situation on the ground and, having embarked on the mission to protect the population of Benghazi against genocide and having had to follow where that took us to protect the population from the retribution that the regime was seeking to vent on it, we did what we had to do. I think we should be proud of having rid Libya of the tyrant Gaddafi, who had effectively dismantled the structure of government in Libya. That is why Libya has had its problems of the past few years—there was no government structure in Libya.

[Alex Chalk (Cheltenham) (Con)]

Deploying British troops to Libya, even in a strictly non-combat role, would add significantly to the demands already placed on them. Can the Secretary of State provide any clarity about how many troops would be necessary and when we can expect to learn from the GNA whether British assistance is required?

[Mr Hammond]

I am afraid that I cannot, really. I can give a personal view: I would expect that we would be talking about a training mission of the sort of scale of those that we are carrying out in other countries around the world. I therefore would expect there to be between tens and hundreds of trainers, not thousands of trainers.