Leaving the EU: Impact on the UK

Alan Brown Excerpts

Wednesday 17th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss]

The hon. Gentleman does not even want us to get to that point, so I am not even going to engage with his arguments. [Interruption.] He is not interested because he is not interested in independence. I would rather talk right now about immigration policy, and the damage that his policies are causing to people in my constituency.

We have the worst possible immigration policy. We have arbitrary targets, a hostile environment and cruelty built into every stage of the system. People who come to live and work in Scotland tend to be highly skilled and are net contributors in both productivity and Government revenue. I have seen how non-EU nationals have been treated, causing misery and hardship, unthinkable poverty and deprivation—all of that serving absolutely no economic purpose. It costs more to treat people so abysmally, and the UK Government do it anyway.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about immigration policy. Does she agree that it is ironic that earlier the Tories were trying to complain about the projected figures and the shortage of doctors, when they are the ones who are imposing this horrific immigration policy on Scotland?

[Alison Thewliss]

Indeed. There are very many aspects of immigration policy that cause significant damage, including loss of skills and the general hostility, which causes people to feel that they are not welcome in their own homes. It touches me every time that someone at my surgery asks me, “Why would they do this to me? Why would they make me so unwelcome? Can I go back to my country, to the war-torn conflict that I have come from? I would feel better there than I do here, under this Government.” Every time that I can, I say to somebody, “This is your home. Glasgow can be your home and you are welcome here.” I do not hear that nearly enough from the Tory Benches. This Tory Government now seek to extend the hostile environment to EU nationals. They do not do so in our name—ever.

The Expert Advisory Group on Migration and Population has estimated that the impact of post-Brexit immigration policy will be a 50% to 80% reduction in net EU migration to Scotland after 2020, and an overall reduction in overseas net migration of 30% to 50%. It has found that very few jobs in key sectors in Scotland will meet the arbitrary salary threshold this Government have imposed. The Home Secretary is aware of these issues and has done absolutely nothing to address them. There are currently no plans to include a route to jobs below the skills threshold, and the UK Government have rejected the possibility of any regional variation in the salary threshold. There has been no clarity on whether the Scottish shortage occupation list will continue to operate. This is a disaster for our remote communities, who depend on migration to counter depopulation. It is a disaster for businesses, who rely on that pool of talent to gain a competitive advantage in an increasingly global market. It is a disaster for our universities, who face a reduction in international staff and students and the experience and richness they bring. And it is a disaster for Scotland’s cities, whose wonderful cultural offerings are ever-enhanced by our migrant communities.

There are few starker examples than Brexit of how a Westminster Government are willing to sideline Scotland’s interests for their own cheap political gain. A differentiated approach to migration works well in Canada and Australia, and there is no sound economic reasoning not to do it, but the UK Government would rather put Scotland’s future at risk to appease the worst excesses of the Tory party.

Many people are beginning to realise that Brexit was a pig in a poke and the much-vaunted schemes that have followed it are merely a mirage. I spoke recently about the shared prosperity fund, the UK Government’s replacement for EU structural funds. It is almost unbelievable that we are now five years since the Brexit vote and still awaiting detail on how this scheme will operate. What we are certain of, however, is that this scheme will, due to the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 and the power grab, bypass Holyrood entirely. This UK Government have made sure that decisions are taken out of the hands of the people of Scotland and restored to the backrooms and corridors of Whitehall.

When we have the choice in Scotland, we invest in projects that meet the needs of our population. The Scottish Government built the stunning Queensferry crossing—toll-free and clearly adored by the hon. Member for Moray (Douglas Ross) as he delivered his keynote speech to the Tory party conference in front of it.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Paymaster General (Penny Mordaunt)]

I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from “House” to end and add

“welcomes the UK-EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement, and recognises the enormous opportunities for Scotland’s economy.”.

Forty-eight years ago, the UK joined the European Economic Community, a concept built by giants. Its founding vision was based on peace and economic prosperity and much good came of it—economic, social and political—but over the years it evolved into something altogether different. Those who campaigned for Brexit did not do so because they objected to the benefits of being in the EU—the free flow of goods, shared security co-operation, ease of travel or reciprocal benefits. What they objected to was the price of those things.

Some objected that the situation prevented developing deeper co-operation with other nations, or that it supported protectionism that held developing nations back, or that it facilitated misery and suffering for refugees and economics, or that it undermined NATO, or frustrated our service economy. Some resented our inability to control our own laws, our own immigration policies or further border controls. Some were concerned about being tied to the eurozone in any way or to the European Court, others about the immense costs of membership and the lack of accountability, political and fiscal. Some wanted us to have our own fishing, agriculture and environment policy, and to realise our ambitions to promote trade for a prosperous and peaceful world.

The negotiations that preceded us leaving the EU and in the run-up to the transition period ending were complex, but our aims can be summarised in three sentences. We wanted to keep the good bits. We wanted to lose the bad bits. We wanted to maximise the possible opportunities for every part of the UK. The post-negotiation scorecard shows that we did well. Under the deal reached with the EU, people in Scotland, as well as all UK nationals, will be able to benefit from a wide range of social security rights when travelling, working and living in the EU, including access to an uprated state pension and to reciprocal healthcare arrangements.

[Alan Brown]

Has the right hon. Lady asked the fishermen and the seafood industry how they would mark the scorecard? Also, does she think it is acceptable that the Fisheries Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Banbury (Victoria Prentis), said she did not read the details of the deal because she was involved in a nativity play at her local school? Surely as Fisheries Minister she should have known exactly what was in that deal?

[Penny Mordaunt]

If we are talking about scorecards, a policy of handing back coastal waters to Scottish fishermen will win every time over handing back their new quotas to the EU. I am very happy to be judged on that basis.

The trade and co-operation agreement allows the UK to take full advantage of the opportunities available to us as an independent trading nation and strike trade deals with other partners around the world. We have started to use those new-found freedoms. We now have a points-based immigration system, which is open to the whole world and the talent that is out there, and can be tailored to our needs. Following the comments from the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss), I hope she will be supporting the Home Secretary’s initiative to establish safe routes for refugees fleeing conflict areas, rather than them having to rely on people traffickers.

The Agriculture Act 2020, which replaces the EU’s bureaucratic common agricultural policy, transforms how we support farmers. The Fisheries Act 2020 enables us to control who fishes in our waters. We have launched our new global human rights sanctions regime. There is the UK-Japan comprehensive economic partnership agreement, and we are replacing overly bureaucratic EU structural funds with the new UK shared prosperity fund.

Brexit was an event, but now there is a process. From outside the EU, we can develop, refine and build our relationship with the EU and its member states for the benefit of all our citizens. The noble Lord Frost and I, and all members of the Government, will be working day and night to address the remaining and future issues for businesses, and to listen to their needs and ambitions. We take those issues incredibly seriously. We will resolve the problems, some of which the hon. Lady touched on.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Murray]

That was a boring and predictable intervention. The hon. Gentleman knows that we voted for the deal to avoid the very no-deal that his Government were threatening. He also knows—he is just about to rejoin the Scottish Parliament, assuming he wins his seat, and I hope he gets the rules in train before he does so—that that is not what the debate was about in the Scottish Parliament. It was about something completely different, not whether Members there accepted or did not accept the deal. The hon. Gentleman knows that not to be the case. [Interruption.] Rather than chuntering, it would be much better for the hon. Gentleman to give some reassurance to the fishing industry and the Scottish farming industry. This is what they are saying to us. It is what they are putting on the record. I am not making this up. It might be a good starting point to give them some reassurance and to work together to resolve some of the problems.

The trade deal leaves a huge amount of uncertainty and falls short of what is needed and what was promised. Scottish farmers are clear that they will not stand by and see a weakening of import standards for food and allow Scottish and British produce to be undercut by others. We need concrete guarantees that food and farming standards will remain at least as high as they are now.

What about services? The financial services sector in Scotland maintains 162,000 jobs and accounts for nearly 10% of GDP. Across the UK, the financial services sector contributed £75.6 billion to the Treasury in the year before covid. There is nothing in the agreement for the 80% of our economy that supports millions of jobs and livelihoods. I hope the Minister can tell us that the EU-UK memorandum of understanding with the financial services sector that is due to be signed by the end of March will give the sector what it was promised. The Government need to secure long-term agreement with the EU on financial services equivalence and to improve access to EU markets for the wider professional services industry, so that the UK and Scotland can remain global hubs for financial services.

I have mentioned just three sectors—the hon. Member for Glasgow Central mentioned others—that have been disadvantaged by this deal, but we could have talked about so many others, including chemicals, petrochemicals and energy. The list is endless. No wonder there is frustration, as it transpires that deals could have been done that would have made things easier for people. We could have stayed in the Erasmus programme. While I welcome aspects of the new Turing scheme, the Government could have done both. That would have been a truly global Britain—stay in Erasmus+ and do the Turing scheme for non-EU countries.

We could have had a deal for our performers and production tours—it was on offer, but it was turned down. Why? Government policy seems to be to cut off our nose to spite our face. I hope that a solution can be found, or it will be more damage to another jewel in the UK’s crown—our creative industries. Those issues do not need Government platitudes. We want not more promises to be broken, but action and resolution now. The Brexit reality includes everything from shellfish rotting on a motorway to stopping our musicians touring Europe. The sunny uplands that we were promised mean a 4% hit to GDP—the equivalent of £3,600 for every household in the UK, according to the House of Commons Library. It is a shame that we do not have time to deal with the Northern Ireland protocol and the effects on the Good Friday agreement.

It is worth coming on to the SNP’s approach to the EU, as the party has initiated this debate in the Chamber. We have heard time and again, in the Chamber and elsewhere, that the UK has left the EU so Scotland needs to leave the UK. The former Labour MP and Europe Minister, Douglas Alexander, said this week in an article in The New European:

“Independence for Scotland would represent a reckless ‘hold my beer’ response to Brexit”.

All of us who campaigned to stay in the EU and strained every sinew to ensure that the case was made are disappointed. Of course we are angry. Many are still grieving after leaving the EU, but if the response is ripping Scotland out of the UK that would add catastrophically to that position.

The UK has left its largest trading partner, the EU. Of course that is bad, and we will hear that throughout the debate. Scotland leaving its largest trading partner, the UK, would be immeasurably worse. We need a remedy for Brexit, not a hugely damaging “I told you so” moment from Scotland. I did not vote remain for my vote to be misappropriated—

[Alan Brown]

We hear a lot about the fact that England is our biggest trading partner—that is true—but does the hon. Gentleman accept that 62% of goods manufactured in Scotland go to the EU, so it is our biggest trader in manufactured goods?

[Ian Murray]

The London School of Economics report—the LSE used to be lauded by the First Minister—said that Scottish independence would be three times worse than Brexit. Everything that the hon. Member for Glasgow Central said has to be multiplied by at least three. Then we can see the impact of what would happen—[Interruption.] Here we go again. I am trying to shine light on the facts of what would happen. I am trying to shine light from the LSE, an organisation that used to be lauded and cited in the Chamber every single day by Scottish National party Members, and all we get is, “Are we better together?” We need answers to those questions. That is what people are crying out for—they want people to be honest and answer those questions.

I did not vote in the EU referendum for my vote to be misappropriated by the nationalists to break up the UK. It is not their vote to do that with. I wonder whether the no-deal SNP regrets spending less on the EU referendum than it did chasing a few thousand votes in its failed bid to win the Scottish parliamentary by-election for Shetland.

The most extraordinary aspect of the debate in Scotland is the SNP’s promising a seamless transition back into the EU if the public vote for a separated Scotland. That is another in a long line of assertions that are not based on fact and not backed by any satisfactory answers. Indeed, we heard the hon. Member for Moray (Douglas Ross) ask the SNP’s finance spokesperson what the currency would be. There was no answer. Can the House imagine the shadow Chancellor or the Chancellor standing at the Dispatch Box unable to tell the country what its currency would be? They would be laughed out of the Chamber. They would have to resign before they reached the Speaker’s Chair.

One thing is for sure: Brexit shows us that breaking up is incredibly hard to do, and I am disappointed again that the SNP has introduced a debate on the EU but not taken any time at all to set out how, why or whether it can get a hypothetically independent Scotland back into the EU. Perhaps it will answer some key questions, as its separation strategy seems to be very similar to the strategy of Nigel Farage and the Brexiteers. It wants to cherry-pick the best bits of the EU, but not take the bits that it knows the public would find unpalatable.

The SNP’s proposition is that Scotland would seamlessly rejoin the EU as an independent nation, but not take the euro, or sign up to Schengen, or meet the deficit and debt requirements, or have its own currency, or meet the exchange rate mechanism rules, or re-enter the common fisheries policy. The sterlingisation plan excludes it from entering the exchange rate mechanism.

Most astonishingly, the Scottish Health Secretary said on “Question Time” last month that Scotland would not need to sign up to the very trade and co-operation agreement that we are debating today between the EU and the UK, which I and the SNP are rallying against in this debate. How is that even possible? Scotland would become an independent nation and would seamlessly go back into the European Union, and then would not even have to implement at the border at Berwick the trade and co-operation agreement that was signed between the UK and the EU? That is just implausible.

We know that the relationship between Scotland and the rest of the UK, in the hypothetical event that Scotland was ripped out of the UK, would be determined by the very trade and co-operation agreement that was signed on Christmas eve by the Prime Minister. All the problems that are being faced by Scottish industries such as fishing, manufacturing, agriculture, exports and financial services that we might hear about this evening would increase fivefold or more, as the rest of the UK is far and away the largest market for Scottish goods and services. This just does not make sense, and it is about time the SNP faced up to those key questions and was straight with the Scottish public. That is all I ask: be straight with the Scottish public and answer the questions.

Scotland has two Governments making promises to the Scottish people that they cannot deliver, and making promises to the people and businesses of Scotland that they have no intention of delivering. The problem is that the UK Government see the relationship achieved with the limited last-minute deal between the UK and the EU as the ceiling of their ambition—we heard that tonight from the Minister—but we do not. We see it as being the floor from which to build. We need to work hand in hand with industry, business, our trade unions and our European partners and friends to achieve practical solutions so that we can face the challenges thrown up by this deal with the EU and grab those future opportunities.

This deal must be built on; it must be the start, not the end. We have to live in the reality, and while we would not have taken us to this position, that is where we are. The deal has to be about a deeper, mutually beneficial relationship that means businesses can thrive. That means repairing the tattered relationship with our EU partners. It means putting aside the ideological nationalist agenda from both Governments and working in the national interest. Now more than ever, we need what the Scottish public are crying out for, which is both Governments, Scottish and UK, working together to mitigate aspects and disadvantages of covid and Brexit, but I fear that I should not hold my breath.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

My constituency has higher unemployment than we would like, and for that reason we certainly welcomed European funding. It helped to support the construction of a new industrial estate in Kilmarnock, which helped create much-needed jobs. What is the replacement for European funding going to look like? Most Ministers here do not know how to pronounce Loudoun, let alone find their way to my constituency, and it is a disgrace that the UK’s so-called shared prosperity fund is managed by the Secretary of State responsible for English local government.

I have constituents who are worried about achieving settled status before the June deadline. That is really galling when we consider that the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Cabinet Office, when he was chair of Vote Leave, was telling us that Scotland could have control over immigration. Instead, we are wedded to an insular system, and there is a pig-headedness over immigration that saw the UK rule out proposals for visa-free travel for musicians. This is directly affecting the livelihoods of my constituents Hayley Orr and Alan Scobie. Alan plays in the band Skerryvore, one of the top traditional-type bands in Scotland. Their tours to the EU are important as they promote Scotland culturally and generate visits to Scotland as a consequence, so there is a double whammy here if they cannot freely access the European tour circuit.

FMX Event Services of Fenwick provides logistical support and equipment for touring bands. It is lined up for the likes of Nick Cave for a six-month tour in the EU, but now, due to cabotage arrangements agreed with the UK Government, onward journeys within the EU are impossible, ruling out that type of work at present. A business in the constituency that exported deer antlers could not get export licences, so it has relocated to France. John Gall, who owns Brownings the Bakers, makers of the Kilmarnock pie, confirmed to me that packaging supplies, such as cardboard and polythene, are more limited in quantity at the moment and have increased in cost, as has wheat.

The supply of machinery parts for repairs and maintenance is a possible serious issue for all manufacturers. From my constituency, Worksmart Contracts carries out refurbishment and fit-out work across the UK. It has confirmed that the availability of timber is an issue, and that some prices are up 30% on last year. There is price volatility, too, in metals and fixings, which means that there are risks when it comes to pricing tenders, as a successful contract award down the line might mean a company taking a hit if prices continue to rise after it has compiled the tender.

McLaren’s Nurseries in my constituency is the first in Scotland to have a plant passport, but it feels that it is acting as a guinea pig and has found that a costly and exhausting exercise. It is losing out just now on what it can import, and it also faces cost increases. It is looking at having to unpack 10% of its exports—up to 20,000 plants—to be checked by inspectors, which is a massive risk with regard to damage and delay to what are perishable goods. All this goes way beyond teething problems and it is a direct consequence of leaving the EU. It might not be headline news, but this is the real impact on people in my constituency.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Julia Lopez)]

I thank all hon. and right hon. Members who have taken part in this afternoon’s debate. The contributions from most have been passionate, insightful and optimistic about our nation’s new path outside the European Union, while recognising that our ambitious and wide-reaching trade and co-operation agreement with the EU will take time to embed. Most also set out a belief in the UK.

The British people’s choice to leave the European Union has often been mis-characterised as a nostalgic, inward-looking reflex, and today we have heard from the SNP that it is “post-imperial stress” syndrome. The hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) derided the UK as “insular little Britain”, while Labour MPs suggested it is toxic nationalism and a disaster. The future is bleak, said the hon. Member for Lewisham East (Janet Daby). Sometimes it feels as though we are still in the last Parliament. If only they did talk of sunshine, lollipops and rainbows.

Instead, I believe the vote to leave was a recognition, first, that the world of tomorrow demands agility, speed and nimbleness in resolving the challenges we shall face, with greater democratic accountability, not federalism, in decision making. The vaccine roll-out is a case in point. International co-operation and partnership will always be vital for the UK, but that need not be channelled via a costly bureaucracy.

Secondly, the vote was as much about ourselves and how we govern ourselves as it was about the EU, and my hon. Friend the Member for Redcar (Jacob Young) had that spot-on. It was a request by the British people for us to be more accountable—not to seek scapegoats, but to deliver to communities solutions that fit them. Those in the SNP, in their relentless, sneering negativity, have made it quite clear that they see themselves as unwilling passengers on that journey, but we recognise that Scotland is not the SNP and that the Scottish people are integral to our collective success as active and much valued builders of the UK’s future.

This is why we are not just focused on the opportunities for Scotland that stem from our leaving the EU, but intent on making the levelling-up agenda mean something for each of the four nations in the UK. Ironically, given their appetite for such polls, SNP Members like to frame the choice of voters at referendums as mistakes, and today is no different as they seek to tell the British people once again why they were wrong to leave the EU.

SNP Members talk about the Erasmus scheme without highlighting the tremendous new opportunities for Scottish students from the Turing scheme, which will open up study placements across the world, not just the EU, from September, with grants provided and tuition fees waived. My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Gary Sambrook) highlighted the opportunities open to working-class constituents in his city.

SNP Members talk about the challenges to the fishing industry without setting out the investment that we are making to grow the Scottish fishing fleet, the collaboration with industry and European partners to tackle border frictions head-on, or the fact that under the agreement we have reached, Scottish fishermen will benefit from being outside the strictures of the common fisheries policy. They talk about the loss of EU regional funding without explaining that we will be at least matching it.

[Alan Brown]

Will the Minister address the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford) about the fact that Scottish fishermen cannot swap quotas, and therefore cannot actually access more of the cod and haddock that they rely on as their key income?

[Julia Lopez]

The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, my hon. Friend the Member for Banff and Buchan (David Duguid), is running the Scottish fisheries taskforce, which is going through some of the issues that the hon. Gentleman highlighted.

SNP Members talk about the loss of EU regional funding, as I mentioned, without explaining that, through the new UK shared prosperity fund, we will at least be matching the funds that have already been distributed to the benefit of communities across our four nations. They talk about the positive role of immigration to the UK without understanding that the desire for greater control of our borders does not undermine the warmth of our welcome to talented, hard-working people from around the world, as our new points-based system attests. They talk of their concern for small business without explaining how our moving away from the EU’s complex procurement regime, rather than clinging closely to it, as they so desire, could open up many more opportunities for SMEs to bid for Government contracts. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (John Redwood) rightly challenged us to be even more ambitious in this area.

I have heard concerns today about Scottish exports without recognition that geographical indications for valued Scottish products remain in the trade and co-operation agreement, and that those products can now also find new markets as we secure ambitious new trade deals with nations such as America and Australia, and we can benefit from those already agreed with Singapore, Japan and Canada. SNP Members portray the UK as a spent force without celebrating the fact that Glasgow will be hosting the COP26 conference, showing global leadership on the issue of climate change, as well as British ingenuity in green tech.

We do not define the relationships between our nations by our 40-odd years of membership of the EU. No—we are bound by the cultural, familial and economic ties of centuries, which SNP Members want to dismantle as they seek so desperately to bind Scotland back into EU bureaucracy. We also have the humility to recognise that our Whitehall-centric model of Government can be improved. It does not do a good enough job of utilising the talents and hearing the voices of everyone in the UK. That is why, this week, the Cabinet Office announced our second headquarters in Glasgow, where at least 500 civil servants will be based as we relocate at least 1,000 roles to Scotland, including from the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office. Brexit was not just about the EU; it is a creative catalyst for us to govern better, which is not a challenge that the SNP seems up for—not when shortcomings can be obscured by finger-pointing. This move brings key decision makers closer to the communities they serve so that we understand the perspective of people in East Kilbride as much as south-west London.

The integrated review published this week on national security, defence and foreign policy sets out the Prime Minister’s vision for the UK in 2030: a stronger, more secure, prosperous and resilient Union that will draw on tremendous Scottish capabilities in space, cyber and maritime industries.

I am grateful for the valuable points that have been raised by right hon. and hon. Members throughout this debate, and I regret that time does not allow me to cover all of them. I have great affection for the Chair of the International Trade Committee, the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Angus Brendan MacNeil), from our time together on that body. He will know that the demand for Scottish goods comes from nations beyond the EU and that with tariff-free trade secured in the TCA, we now have scope quickly to dismantle tariffs to new markets. Scotland already exports £7,600 worth of goods to the US every minute, but a new FTA could unlock even more opportunity with the US.

Right hon. and hon. Members highlighted genuine constituency concerns this afternoon that I do not seek to brush over. We recognise that there has been friction for seafood exporters and we have set up the seafood distribution support scheme and the Scottish seafood exports taskforce to work through these issues constructively. I received an email just yesterday from a French counterpart in the Hauts-de-France region who is actively engaged with the taskforce and wished to offer assurances that our continental friends are every bit as eager as we are to deal with issues of paperwork, given the exceptional quality of Scottish seafood and its importance to their regional market, which contains Europe’s largest processing seafood processing centre.

On the issue of touring musicians, we are alive to the concerns that have been raised. We have sought a more ambitious deal with the EU. Unfortunately, that request was rebuffed and we are now actively working with the industry to see how Government can facilitate their ambitions.

The Government remain committed to ensuring that every success is made of our status as an independent, outward-looking nation. We believe that this is an exciting new chapter in our national story, to which the contributions of the Scottish people will be fundamental. Indeed, we have ambitious plans for every part of the UK. Unfortunately, today the SNP has rather limply and sourly exposed that it would rather keep up its habit of blaming others than lay out its own ideas for improving the lives of Scottish people.

Question put (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the original words stand part of the Question.