Procurement Bill [HL]

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Committee stage
Monday 24th October 2022 Grand Committee

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, as I was saying, Amendments 223 to 227, 229 to 231 and 233 are tidying-up amendments. Amendments 223, 230 and 233 delete provisions that are now set out elsewhere. Amendment 224 clarifies that only contracting authorities may award public contracts using dynamic markets, while Amendment 225 reflects the terminology of “participation in”, rather than “membership of”, a dynamic market. Amendment 226 includes a new definition of “utilities dynamic market” to make it clear that this is a subcategory of dynamic markets rather than a distinct concept. Amendment 227 deletes the previous definition of a utilities dynamic market and deletes Clause 35(3), which will not be needed if proposed new Clause 1, which was discussed on the first day of Committee, is agreed on Report. Amendment 229 is a grammatical change, and Amendment 231 ensures that the definition of “utility” applies across the whole Bill, not just to this clause.

Amendment 234 includes proposed new subsections (1A), (1B) and (1C) in Clause 36, relating to conditions for membership of a dynamic market. These provisions apply the same restrictions to these conditions as apply to conditions of participation in a competitive tendering procedure, as set out in Clause 21.

Amendment 235 clarifies that the contracting authority that established a particular dynamic market, as opposed to any other contracting authority, must publish a notice when the dynamic market ceases or changes—for example, when new suppliers are added.

Amendment 288 allows for a minimum 10-day tendering period for the submission of tenders in competitive tendering procedures for the award of contracts under dynamic markets. This shorter period is a significant efficiency offered by dynamic markets. It compares to the usual tender return of 35 days, which applies in a normal procedure unless tender documents are provided at the outset and/or tenders are accepted electronically, both of which reduce the return by five days.

Amendment 345 extends the requirement on contracting authorities to notify the relevant appropriate authority where a supplier is excluded from a dynamic market because it has fallen foul of a mandatory or discretionary exclusion ground. Amendments 346 to 348 are consequential on this amendment.

In respect of the last two amendments, Amendment 541 corrects the clause reference in the list of defined terms to align with the amendments proposed to Clause 35, while Amendment 545 includes in this list a cross-reference to the newly defined term “utilities dynamic market”.

With that, I beg to move the first of these government amendments in the name of my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, as the noble Viscount set out so speedily, this new concept of dynamic markets is so new that a lot of it did not even make it into the original Bill; it had to be brought in as amendments. Thereby hangs a concern—not with the concept of a dynamic market, which I will come to shortly, but with how this is being put together, the sum of the parts and how it will work. It is difficult to see exactly how this will work in practice from the noble Viscount’s presentation that we just heard, the Bill itself and the original White Paper. That is my concern.

It would be helpful if the noble Viscount came back to us in writing with a simple message as to how this will work. How, for example, does it welcome innovation rather than shut it out? I will give an example. Whether a dynamic is based around process rather than outcome makes a difference, so how will these rules manage dynamic markets that actually deliver constant innovation? How will they be refreshed? How will the system work so that, rather than having the power of incumbency, if you like, which is often what happens with procurement, power will be pushed around to allow innovation, new entrants and new people to work within this dynamic?

We can call something dynamic but how is it dynamic on an ongoing basis if I use this market to buy things or services on a daily basis? Essentially, that is my concern: all these amendments are tinkering around technically with process but, because of the way this has been put together in pieces, will it actually work? Can the Minister come back with some assurance as to how this is supposed to work? How will it be constantly renewed? How will he ensure that it is open to new entrants throughout the life of that dynamic? How will individuals know that they are able to keep entering that market? Tenders will not be going out, so what is the process? If I have a small or medium-sized business, how do I find out about dynamic markets that might suit my product or service set? I am concerned about those kinds of mechanisms and processes.

Economic Situation

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Thursday 13th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister has many times referred to growth. I am sure that the Government recognise that for that growth to come, private sector companies must have the confidence to invest in their businesses and deliver that growth. For that investment to come, it requires a stable economic situation. Would the Minister describe the current economy and economic situation as stable?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

The detailed plans will be announced on 31 October so, picking up on what the noble Lord has said, there are five key areas where the detail is needed on what we are planning to do on growth. Obviously, just to pick up from the noble Lord’s experience, increasing private sector investment is critical, as are getting more people into work with the right skills, getting the housing market moving, improving infrastructure and accelerating delivery of major priority infrastructure projects. I could go on. This is what we are about. It is all to do with getting growth going and, as the Prime Minister has said, expanding the pie.

Transport for London: Funding

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Thursday 23rd June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

To the extent that the noble Lord is right, he makes a very important point: the London Underground transport system in particular is one of the best in the world, and is recognised as such. It is important that we continue to fund it wherever and however we can. But this extraordinary funding, so defined, was meant for a specific purpose, as a result of the revenue shortfall due to the Covid-19 pandemic. I am well aware that tomorrow is 24 June, although I regret that I am not able to tell the House what extension, if any, can be announced today.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister knows that clouding this process is the absolutely appalling relationship between the Prime Minister and his successor as mayor. As a result, the absence of long-term funding is hitting not just passengers but business, as we have heard, because TfL is not able to enter into the proper procurement processes with companies all around the United Kingdom. Without that, they are losing business. Will the Minister join me in calling for the Prime Minister to step back from this feud and enable a long-term deal to be done for TfL?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

The noble Lord knows full well that this is a matter for the mayor and Transport for London. The department works closely with TfL on a range of operational and policy issues, but negotiations with trade unions and averting further industrial action on the London Underground are a matter for the mayor and TfL. But the noble Lord makes a good point; we are keeping a close eye on this because it is important that Transport for London is funded properly.

Trade Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords & Report: 1st sitting & Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords
Monday 7th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, this has been necessarily a short debate, but it has been an incredibly high quality debate. We have heard, from all the speakers, a high level of understanding of the issue and the dangers that Amendment 11 is seeking to address. I speak as one of those who signed Amendment 11. I support Amendment 43 and congratulate my noble friend Lady Sheehan on her eloquent presentation, but I am going to focus on Amendment 11 because it is a really important issue. We heard a lot about data from people who know a lot about data.

Sitting above this is the fact that the Government have no published cross-border data transfer policy. Without that, it seems as though each trade deal will be a series of negotiations without a framework. The noble Lord, Lord Freyberg, and my noble friend Lord Clement-Jones set out the benefits of having constraints and frameworks for this. It is clear from the Japan trade deal that the Government have indicated a level of flexibility around data. Once that has been delivered for one trade deal, it becomes a necessity for the next—and a bit more and a bit more. Even if that is not what will happen, I am sure the Minister understands that this fuels the fires of people’s suspicion and concern about the way in which data is being treated in this country.

From his position of great knowledge, the noble Lord, Lord Patel, set out some specific examples—not of a trade deal but of trade in this country—where data is already being parlayed. One things that has not been said is that, for patients to consent to their data being used, they have to believe that there will be a benefit. They do not want that benefit to flow across these borders through trade; they want it to accrue to the NHS. That is why Amendment 11 is important, and why I hope that it goes to a vote shortly and gets the support of Members from these Benches and beyond.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, spoke very clearly in moving this amendment. Like me, she recognises the benefits of trade, but only when health takes the central place in our trade policy. That is what Amendment 11 seeks to achieve.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I will now address Amendment 11, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Freyberg, Lord Patel and Lord Fox, alongside the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton. This amendment would place a range of restrictions on the regulations that we can make to implement continuity agreements. I will be relatively brief and will write to all noble Lords who asked questions to be sure that they are answered.

New subsection (2), proposed by this amendment, stipulates that regulations can be made only using Clause 2 of the Trade Bill if the agreement does not undermine the way in which the NHS is delivered, operated or regulated, but we believe that the conditions set out in subsection (2) are unnecessary. We have demonstrated time and again that we are not selling off the NHS, and this will not change.

I listened carefully to the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Freyberg. In response, the Government are clear that health and care data should only ever be used or shared where it is used lawfully, treated with respect and is held securely, with the right safeguards in place.

The conditions set out in proposed new subsection (3) would defeat the purpose of having a Clause 2 power. It stipulates that no agreement can be implemented through Clause 2 regulations, unless it contains a range of explicit exclusions and inclusions in the text of the agreement. Importantly, this would effectively prohibit the implementation via Clause 2 of any continuity trade agreement that the Government have signed, which does not explicitly meet these requirements, even though this amendment did not exist at the time of their negotiation. Every single continuity agreement that we have negotiated over the past three years would be left null and void, without an implementing power. We would be forced to reopen negotiations with every single continuity partner, which would no doubt be used to extract costly concessions.

Rigorous protections for public services can be achieved in both positive and negative lists in services and investment schedules for FTAs. The sectoral commitments outlined in a schedule are only one part of a tapestry of protections for public services, which can also include scope exclusions and exceptions set out elsewhere in the FTA. The UK is party to agreements that use both positive and negative lists, and neither outcome has interfered with the Government’s right to regulate and ability to protect public services.

This amendment would also place a new requirement for exclusions on the sale of patient data—another condition that was not in place at the time of negotiation. There are already strict legal, privacy and security controls on how companies can use patient data, including principles set out by the National Data Guardian and the common law of confidentiality. We have clearly set out our principles governing data-sharing agreements entered into by NHS organisations, published in July 2019.

Finally, subsection (4) of this amendment stipulates that regulations can be made using Clause 2 of the Trade Bill only if they allow for the scrutiny of

“medical algorithms, technology or devices”

with respect to their

“methodology for processing sensitive data”.

I reassure your Lordships that before any medical device can be placed on the UK market it must be compliant with the Medical Devices Regulations 2002, which cannot be superseded by a trade negotiation without further legislation.

I now turn, quickly, to Amendment 43, proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, and the noble Lords, Lord Purvis of Tweed and Lord Alton of Liverpool. It would mean that the commencement power in Clause 32 could be used only to commence the substantive provisions of the Trade Bill if they do not restrict UK citizens’ access to medicines, if they do not curtail the Government’s power to use the safeguard provisions of the agreement on trade-related aspects of intellectual property rights, if they do not delay the market entry of lower-priced generic health technologies and if they do not lower the bar for patentability. Similar to Amendment 11, it also seeks to exclude health-related matters from the scope of ISDS provisions.

I also note that the voluntary scheme for branded medicines pricing and access—the so-called VPAS—which is the latest voluntary pricing scheme negotiated with industry, will continue to control the prices of branded medicines and their cost to the NHS. The VPAS runs in conjunction with the statutory pricing scheme, NHS England and NHS Improvement commercial arrangements, and the process for NICE appraisals. The 2019 VPAS will run until 2023 and, through a series of measures, supports patient access to innovative new medicines.

Furthermore, the UK remains committed to the Doha declaration on the TRIPS agreement and public health, which recognises the right to public health and the importance of intellectual property protection, while noting that the flexibilities contained in the IP system can be enacted to address public health needs. In addition to our commitment to our international obligations, we will also be bound by IP provisions designed to facilitate public health that are enshrined in domestic law. For example, the Patents Act 1977 provides for compulsory licensing in the unlikely circumstances that this is required. With that, I ask noble Lords not to press their amendments.

Trade Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Committee stage
Tuesday 13th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I turn to Amendment 46, regarding the parameters of the UK’s future relationship with the EU, in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Fox, and the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. I have been left in no doubt about the importance of people—or personnel, as we sometimes call them—to ensuring that UK businesses have the resources that they need. Of course, this is correct, and I can relate to it to some extent due to my business background in human resources.

I was particularly struck by the tour d’horizon of the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, the noble Baroness, Lady Bull, and the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, who spoke just now about the importance of the creative industries. The noble Baroness spoke about the performing arts, perhaps understandably, including music. Soft power has also been mentioned—as, in fact, were quite a lot of sectors, including the tech sector—by the noble Lord, Lord Fox. I will start with that.

There is a “however” to this, which is that the Government have made it very clear on many occasions that our priority is to ensure that we restore our economic and political independence on 1 January 2021. As my noble friend Lady Noakes said in no uncertain terms—and she is right—this was at the heart of the Conservative Party manifesto and the basis on which we were elected.

The approach to the future relationship with the EU has already been extensively discussed by this House and the other place, most notably during Parliament’s scrutiny of the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020. We want a relationship with the EU that is based on friendly co-operation between sovereign equals and centred on free trade. That is what Task Force Europe, working within the Prime Minister’s office, 10 Downing Street, is pursuing.

Businesses have told us that it is important for them to be able to send their employees to other countries to deliver services on a temporary basis, so we will, of course, be open to negotiating reciprocal arrangements with the EU to facilitate this, building on the provisions that are standard in trade agreements. A reciprocal agreement based on best precedent will mean that UK citizens will be able to undertake some business activities in the EU without a work permit on a short-term basis. The same would apply for EU citizens making business visits to the UK. The precise details, including the range of activities, documentation needed and time limit are for continuing negotiation.

I will pick up on a question raised by my noble friend Lady McIntosh on reciprocals. Our negotiations with EEA EFTA states on a trade agreement are ongoing, so I am afraid I am unable to comment on specific policy areas, and I know that she raised a number of questions for me. However, the Government are not seeking to agree mobility arrangements with the EU beyond those that are normally contained in the services part of a trade agreement. We will negotiate commitments on a temporary entry without prejudice to the introduction of our points-based migration regime. I will answer a question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Fox: the Japan FTA does include a mobility framework.

While we will pursue an agreement on temporary entry for business purposes, this amendment seeks to mandate the Government to reintroduce a comprehensive mobility framework that runs counter to the manifesto the Government were elected upon and a decision that Parliament took when it passed the European Union (Withdrawal) Act.

I will pick up on the subject of a different type of mobility. I listened with care to the speech of the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, and I reassure him that I will liaise with my noble friend Lady Vere in the Department for Transport to respond to him. I very much took note of the points that he raised about transport in general and, particularly, in relation to Eurostar. With that, I ask the noble Lord, Lord Fox, to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

I thank the Minister and all speakers in this short debate. As others have said, the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bull, set forward a compelling set of reasons why a mobility framework is good not just for the individuals concerned but for the overall well-being, financial and otherwise, of this country.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bull, brought up the evidence that was laid before the Economic Affairs Committee last week; I was privy to that and suggest that the Minister might find it a good use of an hour of his time to listen to that evidence, which is about the pressure that Covid is bringing to those people. However, it is quite clear that Covid, followed by a clamping down on their mobility and ability to move around Europe and ply their trade, is the double hit that they all fear.

The noble Lords, Lord Judd and Lord Berkeley, and my noble friend Lord Bradshaw all supported what was being said, and I particularly thank the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, for harking back to the deft decision-making of Chris Grayling. The Government appear to have taken up a career in suggesting new careers for people, with Ministers, apps and adverts all suggesting that everybody retrains. Perhaps Chris Grayling could retrain as a fishmonger and be sent to Northern Ireland to alleviate the crisis that MAC seems to have identified there.

I am very grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, for bringing up mutual recognition of qualifications. I was going to speak to that issue and decided that there was too much already, so I am glad that she did. This is absolutely crucial not just to the service industry but to all sorts of industries: from teaching to veterinary services, everything requires this to work. I understand that discussions are under way, but they need to be successful: there needs to be positive resolution.

Therefore, I do not think there is a meeting of minds. As the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said, we can assess the Minister’s response, which was short and hardly sympathetic to the amendment, which is not a surprise. It is interesting to note that, when it comes to Japan, we are prepared to have these conversations and be very open, and, when the announcement is put out, they will probably be one of the wonderful things that is lauded about that deal. Yet, somehow, in the terms of the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, it is a sin to even think that we might be having this sort of discussions with our recently former colleagues in the European Union.

The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, said, “That has consequences.” As usual, she is right. I will be very happy when she can explain to people with relatives in care homes the consequences of having insufficient care, and when she can talk about there being too few key workers in sectors where we need them to help to hold our society together in times of stress. I will be very pleased when she is around explaining that those consequences are a result of decisions like this. However, with that said, I beg leave to withdraw this amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Morris of Bolton) (Con)]

My Lords, I have received a request from the noble Lord, Lord Fox, to speak after the Minister.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

The Minister said in his repudiation of, or comments on, my points that businesses have no excuse for not knowing what they have to do. At the end of what I said, I asked for some empathy, and I do not think that that is a particularly empathetic response. I shall give two excuses that they might have. One is that dozens of those rules were published only last week and the other is that they might be quite busy trying to keep their businesses alive in the middle of a global pandemic.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a very good point and I hope that he will not take this as being unempathetic; I am just making a point that focuses particularly on Brexit and the transition period. Putting aside the obvious huge problems that businesses are facing at the moment, there has been more than enough time—four years—for businesses to prepare. We have done our best to support them during this period.

Trade Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 1st October 2020 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Haskel) (Lab)]

My Lords, I have had two requests to speak after the Minister from the noble Lords, Lord Fox and Lord Stevenson. I now call the noble Lord, Lord Fox.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his response on Schrems II, which was very helpful. I would like just one further detail. Can he confirm that the advice, when it comes, could concern where databases are domiciled? If so, the advice needs to be made available earlier rather than later so that companies are able to comply. Therefore, can he give some indication of the timetable for when business might get some guidelines so that they can work out their new data management policy?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

Absolutely. That is a very fair question from the noble Lord. As he will expect, I do not have a timeline, so the best thing for me to do is to look at his question and write to him, giving whatever information we have from the department, together with any extra information that might be helpful to him.

UK-US Trade Deal Negotiating Objectives

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Monday 2nd March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement given in the other place. As the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said, we are building on substantial trade with the United States, which receives some 20% of our exports and is our largest international market after the European Union. To be clear, business achieved those substantial numbers while the United Kingdom was still in the European Union. Leaving the European Union is not a prerequisite for doing business with other countries and regimes.

That said, the process of negotiation is now under way, so what light does the Statement throw up? First, could the Minister acknowledge that, with respect to services, our largest sector, it is often the states rather than the federal Government which hold sway? So there are severe limitations on any FTA going forward, because it is difficult to cover the services sector, which is very important for the United Kingdom.

Data appears a number of times in the Statement and plays a big role in the supporting documents. The Government say they are going to

“rewrite the rules of the game on digital trade”.

First, can the Minister confirm that this will mean the UK moving away from GDPR, as clearly that is important? In the Statement, the Minister also talks about including provisions to

“facilitate the free flow of data and prevent unjustified data localisation requirements”.

It would be interesting to know, either today or in a Written Statement, what “unjustified data localisation requirements” this refers to? This is a real issue. For example, is the Minister happy that UK users of Google are having their data moved from the EU domain into the United States’ domain, where there is no accountability from the EU, which until very recently provided democratic accountability for UK users. Does the Minister think that, in moving the data, Google is expecting to make more money from people’s lives or less?

On democratic accountability, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, pointed out, there is considerable uncertainty. Congress, on the other hand, will get the job of approving this deal in the United States, as will the European Parliament in the event of an EU deal being struck. The Statement says that

“the Government will continue to engage collaboratively”,

but following the decision to shelve, or otherwise, the Trade Bill, Parliament has no formal role. Can the Minister explain what collaborative engagement actually means? There is a strong danger that every MP will be held accountable as time goes forward for the effects of trade deals, without having had any say over what the deal was. Perhaps MPs on all Benches will be considering that.

Furthermore, during negotiations—and I have heard this said in this House by those who have participated in negotiations—it is very handy for the US negotiators to have the get-out clause, “Well, I would agree with you on this, but Congress will not let me do it. My hands are tied.” UK negotiators will have no such constraints.

The absence of regulatory alignment, which is clearly something that the EU negotiations will continue go forward with, will ensure that no meaningful deal can be struck with the European Union. In reports, the Secretary of State and others have made it clear that Her Majesty’s Government are prepared to walk away from negotiations with the European Union in 2021. Does the Minister agree that, in this context, given the conflicting nature of regulatory alignment, an FTA deal with the EU is mutually exclusive with one with the United States? We could have a deal with the United States but at the expense of a meaningful FTA with the EU, or perhaps vice versa. I am interested to know the Government’s view on Boris Johnson’s “Cake and eat it” strategy. Can the Minister explain how that works in terms of regulatory alignment?

And what is this for? As the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said, in about 15 years we will have advanced our GDP by less than 0.2%—a quantum that pales into insignificance with the benefits that we were receiving due to our relationship with the European Union. This Statement fails: it fails to prioritise the livelihoods of people and their businesses over an ideological approach to trade and trade policy.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I thank both noble Lords for their points. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for his broad support for this Statement; perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Fox, did not quite fall into that category.

The first point the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, raised was about the point I made concerning the total value of trade between the UK and the US, which will soar—as I had said—by £15.3 billion, adding £1.8 billion to wages across the country. It is true that is over a 15-year period, as he asked me.

The noble Lord spoke about environmental protection. I know this is an issue which is important for many of your Lordships in this House and has come up in previous debates. In all our trade agreements, we will not compromise on our high standards of food safety and animal welfare. The Government will stand firm in trade negotiations to ensure that any future trade deals live up to the values of farmers and consumers across the UK. The UK is proud of its world-leading food, health and animal welfare standards. I say again: we will not lower our standards as we negotiate new trade deals.

The noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, mentioned the ILO and the link to labour standards, and alluded to the conventions as part of the negotiations. He will know that we have very high labour standards in this country, and we want to uphold those. That will be a red line in our approach to these discussions, as it is with the EU.

The noble Lord also alluded to the US position and said that some of the information coming out was—to use his word—on the “aggressive” side. It is entirely to be expected that the US would lay out its stall. We have known its position, which is a very good thing, and will be taking what it has to say very seriously.

On scrutiny, primarily parliamentary scrutiny, this falls in line with what the Government wish to do to keep the nation in touch. The noble Lords, Lord Fox and Lord Stevenson, will know of the strategic trade advisory group, or STAG, and the expert trade advisory groups, or ETAGs. We are consulting these groups on a regular basis. The STAG’s principal purpose is for the Government to engage with stakeholders on trade policy matters. On parliamentary engagement, we have pledged to keep Parliament—both the Commons and this place—up to date as we see fit on the timing and how we are approaching the negotiations.

I should also mention, very importantly, the devolved Administrations. In the Moses Room the other day, I mentioned the forums. We have had our first forum engaging with the devolved Administrations. That is another important facet.

The noble Lord, Lord Fox, raised the issue of services, which is indeed a very important sector for the UK; it is our largest sector. The point was made that negotiations were, on occasion, perhaps more applicable with the states rather than at a federal level. Negotiations are primarily with the US Fed—if I may put it that way. As negotiations continue, there will be more of a focus on the states. I reassure the noble Lord that these negotiations are at a high level, with the federal Government.

I cannot comment on data and moving away from the GDPR. I stick by what I said earlier: data protection is incredibly important in this country. The noble Lord, Lord Fox, mentioned unjustified data requirements. It should be part of the negotiations between the UK and the US to make absolutely sure that our standards and protections are not lowered; that includes Google, which the noble Lord mentioned.

On our approach to negotiations, we have said, and continue to say, that we are prepared to walk away from negotiations if we feel that that is right. However, we approach them in a good spirit. That has been the case in the working groups, which have been operating for quite some time—at least two years.

The noble Lord raised regulatory alignment. That will come up as part of our negotiations with the EU and our negotiations with the US. I hope that that covers most of the questions.

Creative Industries: Apprenticeship Levy

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Tuesday 4th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

We absolutely want to take account of roles such as masons, so there are different flexibilities in the apprenticeship programme. There are the one-year and three-year schemes and 20% off-the-job training, so they get to a really good standard of apprenticeship when they come out.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister will recall that last year Peter Bazalgette led a review on how best to frame the apprentice levy to drive the creative sector. In an Answer to my noble friend Lord Foster, the Minister undertook to read that report and perhaps take some lessons from it. Now, nearly a year on, will the Minister tell us what lessons were learned by his department from the Bazalgette report and what it is doing differently now from what it was doing nearly a year ago?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

There is a lot more that we are doing for the creative industries regarding the apprenticeship scheme. For example, we are working very closely with industry bodies such as the Creative Industries Council, Creative & Cultural Skills and ScreenSkills, so on the back of the Bazalgette report we are looking in greater detail at what more we can do in this important sector for the UK.

Trade Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 13th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Fox]

My Lords, we have heard many times about the soft power of education as it reaches out around the world. This is a way of collecting hard data about the economic benefit to this country. I cannot see why the Government would be unable to support it.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

My Lords, the Government welcome international students, who make a valuable contribution to the UK economically and culturally. They bring greater diversity to university and college campuses and an international dimension to the experience of all students. They also stimulate demand for courses and add to the UK’s impressive research capacity. In the longer term, they offer the prospect of productive business, political, cultural and research links. Of course, they also bring welcome income to UK universities and our wider economy.

We are pleased that the UK remains a highly attractive destination for international students. UK higher education institutions hosted almost 460,000 EU and non-EU students in 2017-18, the highest number on record. There remains no limit on the number of students who can study here, and there are no plans to introduce one.

In the Higher Education and Research Act, there is provision for a faster and simpler route for high-quality new providers to enter the sector and gain degree-awarding powers. This allows the sector to diversify and strengthen its international offer, providing even better opportunities to students from all over the world.

The Department for Education currently publishes data on the value of UK education exports annually. These statistics cover education exports and transnational activity relating to higher education, further education, schools, English language training and products and services. I am grateful for the comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Fox, the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, and the noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill. It is important to look at the statistics, and I will start by giving a view of the ones that we already publish. The latest education exports data publication was dated January 2019. It set out that total education exports and transnational education activity were estimated to be worth almost £20 billion in 2016. International students at higher education institutions contributed £11.9 billion in exports through living expenditure and tuition fees alone that year. This accounts for around 60% of the total value of education exports and activity.

Trade Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Fox (LD)]

The noble Lord, Lord Lilley, before he had to hurry off, spoke of transparency as if it were a threat to negotiation. Speaking to another amendment earlier, the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, who has more contemporary experience than the noble Lord, spoke of her regrets about the TTIP negotiation, and the fact that the NHS brouhaha that blew up around it scuppered, or terminally injured, that negotiation. Transparency is not a prerequisite just because it is a good thing; in the modern world it is needed to get consent for such things to happen. In the world we live in today, such negotiations can be stopped—and if we think the TTIP negotiation was an example of that, we have not seen anything until we have seen a US treaty being negotiated. Transparency is not just a good thing; it is an enabler, which allows us to have such treaties.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, forgive me for stretching the definition of repetition, but before I address the amendments in detail I would like to underline the fact that the Bill concerns continuity for our existing EU free trade agreements as we leave the European Union. I mention that without wishing to revisit the emphasis that we placed on the word “continuity” on Monday last week. Scrutiny of new free trade agreements is not part of the Bill, nor is scrutiny of our future relationship with the EU.

Apprenticeship Levy: Creative Industries

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Monday 23rd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

We continue to work with the creative industries sector to be sure that it has the apprenticeships that it needs. I remind the noble Baroness that this is employer-driven. Three hundred apprenticeships have been approved so far under the new standards system, while 41 standards are in the process of being created in this sector, of which 27 are in development and 14 have already been approved. There is more work to be done and I take note of what she says.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister said in his Answer that the Government’s plan was to introduce a step change in apprenticeships, and indeed they have—they have stepped down by 50% so far. The reason is that SMEs in the creative and media industry and throughout other industries are struggling to make this work. In order for the Government to get the step up rather than down, will the Minister first admit that there is a problem and then undertake to try to solve it, rather than lumping it on to the industries?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The noble Lord will know that I have acknowledged in this Chamber that there is a drop in apprenticeships, but the main reason for it is that we have moved from the old frameworks system of apprenticeships to the standards one. That is why there is a drop if one looks at it year on year. We have acknowledged that and are doing something about it.

Apprenticeships: Levy

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Monday 25th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Fox]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the effectiveness of the Apprenticeship Levy.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, the apprenticeship levy is an important part of our reforms to raise the quality of apprenticeships. We are seeing real improvement in the quality of apprenticeships as a result of our wider changes. The number of people starting on new employer-designed standards is almost 10 times higher than last year, but there is still more to do and we continue to engage closely and regularly with businesses as they plan their future apprenticeship programmes.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer but, if he will excuse me, it is papering over the cracks. Last autumn we saw a big fall in the number of apprenticeship registrations, in February they were down 40% and in March—the latest numbers we have—they are down 58%. This is not a blip; this is a trend. When will the Government abandon their completely unreachable and unworkable 3 million target and really focus on quality?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

We are certainly not going to abandon this: we believe that it is working well. We have explained already that it takes time to bed in. Yes, I acknowledge that starts have dropped, but we make a comparison year on year to last March when there was a considerable spike in the old apprenticeships. At the moment, 37% of people doing an apprenticeship are now starting on standards, compared to 3% last year.

Bombardier

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Lord Fox

Tuesday 10th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, I draw your Lordships’ attention to my declared interests. I thank the Minister for repeating the comprehensive Statement, which I think has support right across the House. There is a danger that this is a bellwether moment for Bombardier, Northern Ireland’s industry and, perhaps, Britain’s future trading relationships. It is an important example and possibly a glimpse of what life outside the European Union might look like.

As the Statement rightly says, this unilateral and disproportionate response by the US Department of Commerce is over a variety of plane that Boeing itself does not manufacture. Does the Minister agree that this is perhaps a more symbolic gesture, with an eye on other manufacturers in other places—a warning shot, perhaps—with Bombardier as the innocent victim of a larger global power play in plane manufacturing? It also demonstrates in style how the US is going to administer multilateral organisations. It sets out in stark contrast what life could be like after Brexit as we adopt WTO rules, just as the Trump Administration step up their attack on that institution, not least through the vetoing of appointments to the WTO’s appellate body, denying it the ability to deal with such trade disputes.

Canada has long demonstrated through its actions that it views Bombardier as a strategic Canadian resource. In Northern Ireland, as the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, stated, it has a very important economic as well as symbolic position within the community. I will not repeat what he has just said, except to reaffirm that its loss would be a savage blow to the drive for economic development that is absolutely essential to support the Good Friday agreement and everything that has gone before. But it is also strategic to the UK aerospace industry. We have to remember that wings are a very important part of what we do in this country, and that is what Bombardier does, so there is a very strong need to defend that technology as well.

Of course, the US action is at an early stage. In due course, as it progresses through the courts and winds its way towards the WTO, I dare say—largely because it has no merit—that Bombardier may have success in overturning the ruling. But these things take years—years and years. What kind of shape would this business be in after going through this process? No company Bombardier’s size could withstand a process of that length. Can the Minister tell us the status of the Delta sales? Are they on hold or do they go ahead as normal until the appeals process is complete? The Minister set out the co-operation that is coming from Canada but we should remember that the parent company is Canadian and if it starts to seek to preserve the overall concern, where will it cut first—in Canada or in Northern Ireland? It is very important that the Government seek assurances from Bombardier that it will continue to support the Belfast operation.

Finally on this point, we can expect the Chinese to heat up their bid for Bombardier. What line do Her Majesty’s Government have into that process? What advance warning are they likely to get in the event that a bid from the Chinese or someone else comes along?

I welcome the seriousness with which the Government are taking this; it is imperative that that seriousness continue. I am sure the Government will take the time to explain to Boeing the caustic effect it is having on what has been a burgeoning relationship in this country. I am sure the Government are reminding it about the Apache and Chinook helicopters and Poseidon aircraft that are currently on order from the MoD. Will the Minister say what contingency plans are being put in place to ring-fence the skills we have in Belfast in the event that they start to leech out? We are glad to hear that the Minister is working tirelessly, but what exactly is he now doing? We have heard that he talked to a wide variety of opposite partners in Canada and the US, but what levers does he have to pull? Can the Minister assure us that while we are cosying up, trying to negotiate a trade deal with the US, we will not ease back or soften our approach to the defence of Bombardier? The Minister has a long list of people he has talked to, so far to no effect. What is the next step?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I thank the noble Lords, Lord Mendelsohn and Lord Fox, for their contributions and for their general support for the Government’s approach in what I think the House will acknowledge is a challenging situation.

The noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, emphasised the importance of the operation in Northern Ireland, particularly the Bombardier—formerly Shorts—factory. It is important for Northern Ireland. I think I mentioned that 1,000 or so jobs out of a total of 4,000 are particularly focused on making the wings for the C Series. The noble Lord made a valuable point about the importance of the supply chain. It is not just the 1,000 workers in the aircraft factory itself. It goes well beyond that. We are well aware of that and are focusing on all the jobs that could be affected down the line if the issue went further.

I want to give a little more information about what the Government are doing. The noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, mentioned a few figures. Greg Clark and the Minister for Aerospace, Richard Harrington, have been tireless in contacting a number of people across government, particularly in the US. There have been 24 calls or meetings with US administrators, Members of Congress and other US politicians, 15 calls or meetings with Bombardier in the UK and Canada and 12 calls or meetings with Boeing—that answers one of the questions asked by the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn. Keeping a line in with Boeing and keeping pressure up to ask it to overturn its decision is very important. There have also been 20 calls or meetings with the Canadian Government or officials.

The noble Lord asked about the EU. I think I mentioned in the Statement that in addition to the EU Commissioner, who is being kept fully involved, other levels within the EU are also being kept involved within the same area. I think that is a good approach.

The noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, asked what might happen with the final decision. We want this decision to be withdrawn by Boeing. That is what we expect. It is unjustified, and I think I have made it quite clear that we are going to work very hard to ensure that that happens. The final decision will be undertaken in February, if it gets that far, and then it is subject to appeal, so there is a process to be undergone, and I should say again that the unfortunate, disappointing decision that has just been made is the first step of the process. We will continue to press Boeing. The amount of meetings that have been had up to date will continue.

The noble Lord, Lord Fox, spoke about plane manufacturing. As he will know from his role, aerospace manufacturing in the UK is incredibly important. Boeing’s strategy is most disappointing. We should point out that Boeing has a considerable interest in the UK, and we want to be sure that the long-term relationships and partnerships we have with Boeing continue. No doubt they will, with what we are currently working on, but its action does not help with potential future deals. We want that to work out.

We see this as a specific issue between the US, Canada and the UK Government, not broader than that, so I do not think there is any mileage in extending it to the EU, which the noble Lord, Lord Fox, mentioned.

I do not want to comment on Delta’s thinking; that is for Delta to comment on. I can only assume that it will continue to commit to its order for the CS100. I understand that they are due to be delivered in the spring of 2018, and as far as I know, that will continue. We will do all we can to support Bombardier and all the workers in Northern Ireland—a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Fox. Every effort will be made, and we have some very strong lines in to those running the factory and those on the trade union side. I pay tribute to those in Northern Ireland, particularly the Northern Ireland politicians, who are working assiduously with us and with others involved in Northern Ireland.