EU Council

Viscount Hailsham Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, if the deal put forward by the Prime Minister fails to get through the House of Commons, as seems very likely, will my noble friend please tell the Cabinet that there is a large body of opinion in the Conservative Party, in Parliament and outside, supporting a further referendum? We will make common cause with all opinion, wherever we may find it, to achieve that desire.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We are working hard to ensure that we do get this deal through. Should the House of Commons choose to reject it, however, there is a process set out in legislation. We will follow that.

October European Council

Viscount Hailsham Excerpts

Monday 22nd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Of course, I respect the views of the people the noble Lord spoke to, but as I have said and as we have made clear, we had a vote in 2016 in which 17.4 million people voted to leave. We will be respecting that vote. We will be achieving a great deal with our European partners to ensure a strong relationship going forward, but we have had a people’s vote and we will now respect their wishes.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, may I say to my noble friend that in respect of the meaningful vote that Parliament has been promised, no vote will be meaningful unless it enables the House of Commons to decide to stay in the European Union on existing terms, or to require the holding of a further referendum on the terms that it identifies. I simply do not agree with the Prime Minister’s use of the following phrase:

“politicians telling the people that they got it wrong the first time and should try again”.

That is not a proper assessment of the people’s vote.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As my noble friend will be aware, the vote on the deal will be one for the House of Commons to take, and the Government’s commitments are enshrined by law in the withdrawal Act.

Exiting the EU

Viscount Hailsham Excerpts

Monday 9th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank the noble Lord for his question. We believe that this is a business-friendly model which will seek to facilitate the greatest possible trade between the UK and its trading partners, whether in Europe or the rest of the world, while allowing the UK to set its tariffs. There will be no new routine checks or controls for UK businesses trading with the EU. In relation to his suggestion of a smugglers’ paradise, the proposal includes additional behind-the-border enforcement to prevent third-country trading countries from seeking access to the UK through trade circumvention rather than through agreeing free trade agreements with preferential tariffs.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

Will my noble friend tell the House what the Government propose to do to ensure that British financial institutions have continuous and successful access to the European market? The Statement is remarkably silent on that matter.

Brexit Negotiations

Viscount Hailsham Excerpts

Monday 11th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We have been clear that maintaining alignment means that we may have the same objectives but that they may be met in different ways.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, may I congratulate the Prime Minister through my noble friend on the pragmatism that she has shown thus far? I urge my noble friend to urge the Prime Minister to show similar pragmatism in the future, because does she understand that, despite the voices of some prominent members of my own party, there is very limited support for a hard Brexit? Consequently, if we are to get approval for the ultimate outcome of these negotiations, it has to be on the basis of a very close alignment between the institutions of the European Union and those of the United Kingdom.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, as the Prime Minister’s Statement said, this is not about a hard or soft Brexit; it is about ensuring that we have a deep and special new relationship with the European Union, because we want a deal that works both for our citizens here and for the European Union. It is in all our interests to work towards that. I hope that, come Friday, when it has been acknowledged that sufficient progress has been made, we can begin taking those steps into phase 2 of the negotiations.

Sexual Harassment in Parliament

Viscount Hailsham Excerpts

Monday 30th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Again, I thank the noble Lord for his constructive comments. It will involve many of us working together. Our House of Lords Commission will need to be involved. I believe that the House of Commons Commission is meeting later today and this issue will be a key item of discussion. All of us on the commission will want to make sure that we can be involved in and oversee discussions, and of course the House authorities will also play a part. However, this will be very much a matter of cross-House working and it may be that we have to establish ways to ensure that dialogue can take place quickly between the two Houses, so that we move things along in a way that sometimes does not happen. I would not like to give the noble Lord an exact timetable because I do not have one at the moment, but I hope it is clear from the Statement that there is an urgency to this. We all agree on that and we will work together to move forward in a constructive way; that is certainly what we will be looking to do.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, if we are to have a procedure that results in adverse findings against an individual, perhaps I may ask my noble friend to ensure that we have due process. That involves having a proper appeal process where there is a re-hearing on the merits, preferably under a senior judicial figure. Does my noble friend remember the case of Neil Hamilton? I was in the House of Commons at the time and I am very far from certain that the process we had in place then was in any way fair.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My noble friend is absolutely right that it has to be a fair process for all involved so that we can be confident in the results. I am not aware of the details of the case he talked about, so I shall obviously bear that in mind. However, I can assure him that we want the process to be robust for everyone involved so that staff, MPs, Peers and the public can be confident that we are looking into these matters properly and dealing with them. I can give him that assurance.

European Council

Viscount Hailsham Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I believe that our legal system is second to none and we should be very proud of it. The proposed agreements will be enshrined in UK law and enforceable through the UK judicial system, up to and including the Supreme Court. We are also ready to make commitments in the withdrawal agreement which will have the status of international law. We will discuss with the EU how to ensure that UK nationals in the EU will be able to rely on their rights that are agreed.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement, which contained some very important principles on citizens’ rights. However, will my noble friend confirm that the actual outcome will depend upon negotiation, and therefore it is rather important not to set out any premature red lines? Furthermore, we must be imaginative in trying to resolve differences. For example, with regard to judicial supervision of the ultimate rights, surely we should contemplate the possibility of EU judges sitting alongside UK judges in British courts or tribunals in appropriate cases.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend. The Government believe that we have set out a fair and serious offer. We have put a detailed proposal forward which will now be for negotiation. The next round of negotiation and discussion begins next month. We now have a fair and serious offer with which to begin our discussions.

European Council: December 2016

Viscount Hailsham Excerpts

Monday 19th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Lord is absolutely right. We are deeply concerned by reports that the regime forces and their supporters are carrying out summary executions, including of women and children, and that hundreds of men have disappeared on leaving eastern Aleppo and entering regime-held areas. That is why we are very pleased that the UN Security Council has adopted a resolution today which demands full access across Syria and particularly requests that the UN monitors evacuations from eastern Aleppo. We are doing all we can to ensure that all parties fully comply with that resolution and to make sure that if crimes have been committed the perpetrators are indeed punished.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend has said that the objective is that our laws should be made in Britain and not in Brussels. That is manifestly correct. However, does she also accept that that means that the final terms, when they are known, should be subject to parliamentary ratification in this House and in the House of Commons, and if Parliament so decides, it would be perfectly democratic to hold another referendum on the known and agreed terms?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We have been very clear that we are implementing the will of 17.4 million people in delivering a referendum and now organising our withdrawal from the EU. We will, of course, comply with all constitutional and legal obligations that apply to the deal we negotiate with the EU.

Judicial Independence

Viscount Hailsham Excerpts

Wednesday 7th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Henley]

My noble and learned friend did exactly that, as have other colleagues throughout the Government. They have also stressed—this is important to remember—that we are not responsible for what appears in the press, and we are not the police of the press.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, should the higher judiciary’s integrity and independence come under renewed attack, will my noble friend encourage his senior ministerial colleagues and, in particular, the Lord Chancellor, to defend the judges with the robustness that their predecessors would have shown?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I can certainly remember one of my right honourable friend the Lord Chancellor’s predecessors and his robust defence of the judiciary. But I have to make it clear that she has made a robust defence of the judiciary, and all members of the Government will continue to do so.

House of Lords: Size

Viscount Hailsham Excerpts

Monday 5th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, I shall begin with three preliminary remarks. First, I have been debating House of Lords reform in Parliament since 1979. As a consequence, both my expectations and my aspirations have become fairly modest.

Secondly, and differently, I have the minority view here: I believe that the authority of the second Chamber should be commensurate with that of the House of Commons, with powers equal to it. I know full well that that would mean a wholly or largely elected Chamber. That is my belief. I equally know it is not going to happen, at least not in the near future, although it may happen as we move away from a unitary state.

My third point echoes what the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, said: I agree fundamentally about the importance of the bicameral system, for all the reasons that the noble Earl outlined. We do our job very well.

I turn to the reasons advanced in support of the Motion. I agree that this House is too large, but I also happen to think that the principal reasons advanced are second-order reasons. Yes, we are laughed at—the risibility factor, as identified by my noble friend Lord Cormack—and that is bad news. The facilities are overstrained, as identified by the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, and the noble Lord, Lord Low. They are right about that too, but that is also a second-order issue. Actually there are some advantages of a very large House: you broaden and indeed deepen the pool of noble Lords here. That is an advantage when it comes to debate, in reports and on committees. I agree again with what the noble Earl, Lord Caithness, said about that. I believe, as does my noble friend Lord Forsyth, that we do our job very well. So there are powerful reasons for reducing the size of the House but they are second-order reasons, and that is important when determining the scope and the depth of what we have in mind.

Before I touch on what I think should happen, I shall say what I think should not and what will not happen. First, on what will not happen, I agree with my noble friend Lord Wakeham—no one knows more about the House of Commons than he does—that the idea of a big bang reforming Bill going through the House of Commons is for the birds. It would have to be conducted on the Floor of the House; it would be a Christmas tree on which any Member could hang his or her favourite bauble; and, incidentally, as you came towards a general election Members of the other place would be looking at their post-election prospects and would rather like to sit here. So that is not going to happen.

What I do not want to happen is the electoral college, notwithstanding the advocacy of my noble friend Lord Tebbit. I fear that the parties would get a grip on those elections and we would end up with the clubbable, the companionable and the compliant. I speak on behalf of the awkward squad: this place without my noble friend Lord Forsyth would be impoverished. We need the awkward squad in this place, and electoral colleges do not do anything for that.

So what should we do? I shall make a few brief suggestions. First, I entirely agree with the Select Committee. Secondly, we need to agree progressively to reduce the size of this House, which means self-restraint by the party leaders—maybe one in for two out, something like that. Thirdly, I think it would be useful if life Peers were nominated for fixed terms. Fourthly, although I touch on this with caution, there is a need for a retirement age. I look back on my own family and know that people can stay here too long. I think 80 may well be appropriate.

Then I favour the resignation of non-participating Peers. I recognise, too, that that could be bad news because the non-participating Peer could change his or her habits and participate overmuch. But there is a case for non-participating Peers to stand down. I appreciate the allegations of humbug and sour grapes that are about to be levelled against me, but I am pretty cautious about by-elections for hereditary Peers, as they are very difficult in principle to justify.

There are powerful reasons for reducing the size of the House, but I think, too, that they are second-order reasons. That being so, we should be cautious about going too fast or too dramatically. In any case, it will not happen because there will not be a Bill. Let us focus on gradual and modest changes, focusing on those matters where it is most difficult to defend the status quo. If the public perceive that we are getting a grip on it, much of the criticism based on size will begin to fall away.

Strathclyde Review

Viscount Hailsham Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend for those comments; I think I probably do so on behalf of the Labour leader, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, as well.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, I echo the suggestion made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace, about the amendability of statutory instruments; I have spent the last 30 years arguing for that. In view of the work that will be done pursuant to my noble friend’s report, it would be very helpful if we could look again at the possibility of amending statutory instruments.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I said, I can make no promises. I said to the noble Lord that I will obviously take these comments back and we will investigate further.