English Devolution

Debate between Tim Farron and Jim McMahon

Monday 16th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Jim McMahon]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I said that this is less about structures and politicians, and more about outcomes, and those are exactly the types of examples that we need to look towards. The real test for many people is, “If I’m standing at the bus stop on a miserable Monday, when it’s raining, does the bus turn up or not?” Having more control over local bus services, through franchising or even public ownership, is part of the offer on the table, but buses alone do not fix the transport system; we also need rail devolution. The White Paper points to an ambitious schedule of devolution when it comes to rail and multimodal transport, and particularly to single ticketing, because, in the end, even if we have co-ordination of transport, it needs to be affordable for people, and different modes of transport need to be linked when it comes to single ticketing. There are definitely opportunities on the transport agenda.

[Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)]

The Minister will know that in Cumbria we are still going through the process of a reorganisation that happened just 18 months ago. For better or worse, all reorganisations are massively distracting and take people’s eyes off the ball. Does he understand why residents, businesses and everybody else in both parts of Cumbria—we now have two local authorities—are outraged at the thought that a mayoral model might be imposed on us? Is that not the opposite of devolution? Is it not right that local communities should be able to have the devolution that we want? We are up for all the devolution that the Minister will give us, but we do not see why we have to have a top-down mayoral model and be told that we have to have a reorganisation again, five minutes after the last one.

[Jim McMahon]

I pay tribute to leaders in Cumbria for the engagement that we have had with them; I recognise that they have just been through a local government reorganisation and that there has been a lot to settle in the area. They have embraced our conversations with great maturity, and those conversations have been fruitful, but we recognise that different places are at different points. Different places have different pressures that they need to reconcile, which is why we are looking at a priority programme for the areas that will soon be ready to go. We need to get the legislation and consultation in place and make the case to the public. We accept that some areas will need longer.

On mayors, I have been here long enough to see a number of Members stand up and protest against the idea of a mayor, only to pop up a bit later as the candidate for the same position, so I say to people in Cumbria: be careful what you wish for.