Public Order Bill

Debate between Baroness Hayman of Ullock and Lord Paddick

Committee stage
Tuesday 22nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

This is so important. I do not think the Minister or the Government appreciate how vulnerable women can feel walking, particularly in the dark or on their own, and it gets dark very early in the winter. This is really serious. I also do not think they realise how much young women, particularly if they are attractive, can get hassled. If you have been hassled a lot, you can snap because you are sick and tired of it. I really do not think this has been thought through.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

Before the Minister responds, he may also wish to think very carefully about what he said about these powers not being exercisable by officers in plain clothes. I am prepared to apologise to the Committee for misleading it when I say that these powers alter Section 1 of PACE, which has nothing in it about an officer having to be in uniform to exercise powers of stop and search. So what the Minister said about these powers not being exercisable unless the officer is uniformed is not true.

Ukraine Sponsorship Scheme

Debate between Baroness Hayman of Ullock and Lord Paddick

Wednesday 16th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

My Lords, I begin by warmly welcoming the noble Lord to his place; it is good to see him in this Chamber. He was an excellent Member of the other place and he is very welcome here.

Moving on to the Statement, any scheme that will help Ukrainians reach safety is welcome. However, we feel we need more information as to how this will work in practice to give desperate Ukrainian families the help and support they need at this truly terrible time. Since the Statement was made, we have had a letter from the Secretary of State, the right honourable Michael Gove MP, in which I was pleased to see that he says:

“Our aim, through this route, is to offer a safe, warm welcome to as many arrivals as possible, based on the number of sponsors.”


The announcement introduces a new website, which allows UK households to say that they would host refugees, but there is no way to connect these households to refugees in search of homes. It seems that only households that have details of a specific refugee are able to host them, leaving families unable to flee to Britain unless they have somehow found hosts.

In addition to this, there is still no material change to the process, which means that refugees will still need to apply for visas by completing a 50-page—I understand—online form and uploading a number of documents. Yet the letter from the Secretary of State, in follow up, says that

“we want to minimise bureaucracy and make the process as straightforward as possible while ensuring the safety of all involved.”

I also draw attention to concerns raised about how refugees will actually get here if it is agreed—who will cover the costs and how will that be managed? We have concerns that individuals will not be able to properly sponsor a Ukrainian national’s visa until Friday.

I am pleased to see that there is promised financial support for local authorities. This will be an awful lot of work for them, so I thank the Government for that. However, we would appreciate further details on broader resettlement matters such as how healthcare, education, social care and so on will be managed and provided for those who will need them.

If the Minister will indulge me, I have a number of questions. Can the Minister confirm who exactly is eligible to sponsor a Ukrainian as part of the scheme? Do people have to be British nationals, or is someone with indefinite leave to remain also able to do so? Can the Minister confirm whether the £350 a month will be treated as income that could potentially affect recipients’ benefits?

I do not understand why the Government are not playing more of a proactive role in matching sponsors and refugees. Could they not match some of the cases with those who wish to help but perhaps do not know how to navigate social media? Can the Minister confirm who will be responsible for undertaking any safeguarding checks on sponsors? Will this be done by the Government or will it be part of the local authorities’ responsibilities? Will data about arrivals via the route be shared with local councils ahead of time? As much access as possible to data ahead of time will help local councils to provide proper healthcare and education, particularly for the children who are coming.

We also have a worry that there are still 12,000 Afghan refugees living in hotel accommodation, and clearly we do not want to find Ukrainian refugees in the same situation and the situation being exacerbated. So, again, a little more information about that would be helpful.

I have mentioned children. We know that a large number of the people requiring settlement will be, sadly, women and children who have escaped, often leaving their menfolk behind. We will have specific issues around nursery provision, childcare and education. Can the Minister confirm who will be responsible for ensuring that these needs are met? Will it be the Department for Education or local authorities?

I think we are looking for more clarity from the Government about their expectations of local authorities. It is great that there is financial support, but what are the expectations for delivery by local councils? Will there be support for, say, voluntary or faith groups, which will also have an important role to play? My final question is: what provision will be made for unaccompanied children? Will there be a specific scheme for them?

The main thing is that refugees arriving into the UK are treated with dignity, and provided with the accommodation and further support they are going to need to cope with this terrible crisis, until Ukraine is safe once again and they are able to return home and work to rebuild their country. I look forward the Minister’s response, which will be his maiden speech, and I wish him well.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, I too welcome the Minister to the House and to the Front Bench.

Of course, we welcome in principle an unlimited scheme where UK residents can sponsor Ukrainian refugees, but Homes for Ukraine is limited by other schemes. First, the Government still insist that all Ukrainian refugees must have a visa, while all member states of the European Union are allowing visa-free entry. These refugees are in desperate need now, and a fast response is required. Countries bordering Ukraine are being overwhelmed and they need us to take some of the pressure off them. Why is the Government restricting the flow of refugees into the UK?

The Government cite security concerns for slowing things down, but the Irish Prime Minister was interviewed on the BBC’s “Sunday Morning” programme, where he said that the need for a humanitarian response to Europe’s biggest refugee crisis since World War II

“trumps anything as far as we’re concerned.”

Mr Martin said the view within the EU is that all borders should be open to Ukrainians for as long as Russian bombs and missiles are being targeted at civilian populations inside Ukraine. He went on to say:

“We can all see the humanitarian crisis, we do know that that can be exploited by certain bad actors, but our security personnel will keep an eye on that in a more general way.”


If Ireland can keep an eye on security issues once refugees arrive in Ireland, why can the UK not adopt the same approach? Bearing in mind that there are no passport checks between the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland and between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, how does the UK and Ireland having a different approach make any sense? The Minister in the other place talked about putting humanity first; the UK is clearly putting visas first.

Another bottleneck in the process is caused by sponsoring families in the UK having to identify Ukrainian nationals or families by name in order to sponsor them. How are older people without IT skills who are fleeing Ukraine supposed to identify themselves to British sponsors, let alone complete a 50-page online form to get a visa? I know that the Minister is trying to cut that form down, but is it not a fact that the most in need are the least likely to get to the UK quickly?

Another barrier to accessing the heartwarming generosity of British families is that the programme is initially open only to refugees who have known connections to the UK sponsor. The Minister in the other place said that

“we will … expand the scheme in a phased way”.—[Official Report, Commons, 14/3/21; col. 620.]

Can the Minister explain what the various phases are and when they will be in operation?

Another potential bottleneck are DBS checks for sponsors. There are already backlogs. What additional resources are the Government providing to ensure that necessary safeguarding checks are done in good time? Some of those volunteering to sponsor will already have been DBS checked. What are the Government doing to match unaccompanied child refugees, in particular, with those who have already been safeguarding checked, rather than expecting these sponsors to identify the most vulnerable?

What consultation has taken place with local authorities on whether the £10,500 per refugee is enough to provide additional school places and child mental health support, which is often assessed by child psychologists working in schools, and the other range of services that refugees are likely need? The Minister in the other place said that the payment to sponsors of £350 a month would not affect benefit entitlement or council tax status, but would a single-person sponsor lose their single-person council tax discount? In short, where is the detailed plan for how this nice idea is going to work in practice? I know that the Minister wants to do his best, but we believe that the constraints within which he is being asked to operate are too restrictive.