Seasonal Agricultural Workers Scheme

Scott Mann Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2016 Westminster Hall

[Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gapes. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Helen Whately) on securing this important debate.

I welcome the opportunity to acknowledge the contribution that seasonal workers make to our rural economy. They are critical to UK agriculture plc. It is worth noting that a small number of seasonal workers are British citizens who go to work in the fields in the summer and autumn months to increase their pay packets, but the vast majority are non-UK nationals. I will focus my contribution on them, because they play a very large part in the north Cornwall workforce during the summer months.

We are facing a seasonal worker shortage at a time when UK food production may need to increase to meet the country’s needs. I believe that implementing a new seasonal workers permit scheme for non-UK workers would give farming businesses certainty at a time when they need it. Without such a scheme, the UK could be at a significant disadvantage, as many other developed countries around the world have a seasonal workforce. At this crucial time when we are withdrawing from the European Union, we need to give the agricultural sector certainty about future workforce planning. Farmers and other rural businesses need assurances about the labour market and about how any future schemes will operate, so they are confident that they will have that role in the long term as the UK removes itself from the European Union.

It is also worth looking at an accommodation strategy to house seasonal workers in the summer months. A lot of farm-based businesses in north Cornwall have raised the problem of accommodation with me. Having such a policy would mean that people coming to Britain to work knew they had somewhere to stay before they agreed to come. A seasonal scheme would also benefit other rural and coastal businesses, which face similar increases in trade throughout the summer months. Tourism Alliance data show that one in four workers in the tourism sector, in which north Cornwall plays a huge part during the summer months, are non-UK nationals. A dedicated strategy to meet increasing pressures during the year for farmers and the tourism sector would be welcome.

Prior to 2014, there was a quota-based seasonal workers system that enabled farmers to recruit temporarily from overseas. It took a pragmatic approach to labour, and it was controlled through the UK Border Agency and managed by contracted operators. I ask the Minister to consider learning from what worked back then and to implement a strategy to check workers in and out. It should be overseen by the Home Office and managed by licensed operators, and it should not just support EU citizens but be open to the wider world. I ask the Minister to consider an accommodation strategy to cope with temporary population changes, and a 12-month permit in conjunction with other industries, such as food processing or tourism, that would enable us to offer a full year’s work to committed non-UK workers.

This debate has been a great opportunity to put the farming case for seasonal permits. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Criminal Finances Bill (First sitting)

Scott Mann Excerpts

Committee Debate: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 15th November 2016 Public Bill Committees

[Roger Mullin]

Q With all due respect, what I quoted was $30 million that was laundered in London. I am not talking about the other money laundered through Hermitage in other jurisdictions. My understanding is that they have been buying up different types of assets in London—they are not merely property assets—and that the individuals involved regularly visit London, which would seem to bring it entirely within the remit of the UK to do something about it.

Donald Toon: We have a remit in the UK to do something, as you say, but from our perspective, we have a remit to do something in support of those who are better placed to target the main criminals. My understanding of the position is that I am not at liberty at the moment to go into the detail to which you refer.

[Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)]

Q I have three questions for you, Mr Toon, if I may. What have been the most significant challenges for the NCA in tackling economic crime? How will the measures in the Bill help the NCA to tackle economic crime? The third question is a small supplementary on the seizure orders and unexplained wealth orders. A small number of people make money from online gambling. Could you tell me how the Bill might affect them?

Donald Toon: I outlined earlier a couple of the biggest problems. Essentially, at the top end of money laundering, asset hiding and asset tracing, we are talking about something that is fundamentally international in scope and often involves us dealing with difficult jurisdictions. That has been an ongoing problem, notably around our ability to access sufficient information to track asset movements and identify ultimate beneficial owners. The fact that we have provision in the Bill for information sharing with the private sector is from our perspective hugely valuable. We have been working with the banks in a joint money laundering intelligence taskforce for about the past 16 or 17 months. This legislation essentially gives more cover for the banks to be able to share information effectively. Currently, they can do that only through us, through our gateway.

It is important to bring out that, with the capability that we have had so far, 58 arrests have flowed from the ability to share information with the banks. We have identified more than 2,100 suspicious accounts. Most importantly—there is something here about the shared intervention response—we have also had 730 bank-led internal investigations into customers and the use of particular accounts, which is hugely valuable to us. We are often dealing with large multinational financial institutions. They are in a very strong position to track the movement of money and see transfers between particular accounts, which enables us to identify the routes that we need to go down to track beneficial ownership. That information sharing provision, together with the work that has been done around improving transparency on beneficial ownership, is hugely valuable.

I have already mentioned the value of the unexplained wealth orders. Equally, there is the power to require provision of further information. We have an issue with suspicious activity reporting. Yes, we get a very large number of reports and that number continues to rise, but it is overwhelmingly from the banks. We have significant concerns about the quality and number of reports that we get from other parts of the regulated sector. Often, banks report suspicious transactions involving other parts of the regulated sector. It is very unusual for us to be able to see and track those transactions as they have gone through, say, the legal profession, accountants or company service providers. We should see better quality reporting in that space. The power in the Bill will give us the ability to seek additional information, either where we have a report and it lacks quality or where we have a report that leads us to want to start asking questions of other parts of the regulated sector that have been involved in the transaction. That is hugely valuable from our perspective.

The Bill as a package is really valuable, but not just because of that. I have mentioned the SARs moratorium period. That moratorium period has been so difficult, not just from our perspective, but from the perspective of law enforcement’s ability in the round to make effective use of SARs. With a seven-day turnaround and a 31-day limit, as soon as we go international, even with supportive jurisdictions, it is very hard to get information within that 31-day limit to be in a position to get a restraint order. That we can now see that go up to a maximum of just over six months—186 days—and that there is court oversight to give safety, is a hugely valuable step forward. Those are the major advantages of the Bill.

On the point about internet gambling, I confess I have not focused on that area. I would expect that, when we are in a position to be able to track those who are making particular profits, they could be targeted using the same provisions. The interesting thing is that while the information-sharing provision starts with the banks and the financial sector, the intention is to broaden that out and share information with the wider regulated sector. That would take us into things such as the gambling operators.

[The Chair]

Order. Before we proceed, I will say to the witnesses that this is your time. You have asked to appear and you have come to give evidence. This section will end at 10.20 am, no doubt whatsoever, so you are using your own time. You need to be more succinct to get more questions asked of you and replies given.

[Scott Mann]

Q Just quickly to pick up on what Mr Toon said, could you give me the timeframe for the 58 arrests?

Donald Toon: Those 58 arrests would be over a 15-month period.

[Peter Dowd (Bootle) (Lab)]

Q I want to come back to the issue of resources and capabilities. You all gave an answer but I did not get the sense that you were convinced that you have adequate resource. You told us that the capabilities in the Bill would give you just that—capability. You also said that additional resource was being put in and that other agencies, such as banks themselves, would do a lot of the investigation but you did not tell us that you believed that you were going to get sufficient resources for the proposals in the Bill and what you were being asked to do. I will ask a second time: do you believe that you will get sufficient resources to do the job that you are being asked in the Bill?

Donald Toon: From our perspective, the vast majority of our resource is not specific to criminal finances. We operate on the basis that we deploy resource against the particular problem we are dealing with at the time. We have got approximately 4,500 resources. We are capable of flexing that. Could we do more with more? That is always the case in any organisation but the Bill will make us more capable and efficient in terms of delivering results. We think we deliver decent results now and will be better at it.

Mick Beattie: Again, it is a case of competing demands. Obviously, in policing we have to refocus now with this emphasis on child exploitation and the emergence of cybercrime in recent years. That has really impacted on the limited resources that we have. There are approximately 1,800 financial investigators in and around the policing community. We could all do with more but, in terms of the balance around the competing demands, we have a very strong and productive capability.

Detective Superintendent Harman: Yes, I do think that we have sufficient resources to take advantage of what is in the Bill, a specific example being the seizing of portable items. We are expanding our teams at the ports who intercept illicit cash and goods; we are not reducing them. That is one example. As I touched on, an area of the Bill would enable us to make better use of the resources that we do have. To answer your question directly: I am content.

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Arkless]

Q Many properties in my constituency are valued at less than £100,000 but more than £50,000, so I hope we are not basing that on London property prices.

Mr Thompson, on corporate economic crime, it is clear that the provisions in the Bill extend to employees facilitating tax evasion, and it does not go beyond that. Do you think there is a case for going beyond that? It strikes me that there is nothing in the Bill that gets at what the public understand as being the problem with corporate criminality. There is nothing that could catch the riggers of the LIBOR market, for example. There is nothing that could catch swathes of unscrupulous mortgage advisers giving 120% mortgages to dogs in kennels, which many people would argue has caused a great deal of the suffering that we are still all trying to recover from. Is there is a case for that?

Mark Thompson: There is a case for it. The SFO has made that case previously. The Attorney General has also called for consultation. My understanding is that there has not been a consultation yet on that measure, and that the Government may consider one. We have made the point before that it is inequitable that bribery and tax evasion attract these sort of corporate penalties, but that money laundering does not—it is a crime that attracts 14 years in jail. It also seems unreasonable that it is easier under the current law to prosecute small and medium-sized enterprises and not big corporates because of the way they operate. We have made that point before, but my understanding is that it was never going to be in this Bill anyway. It is a wider matter.

[Scott Mann]

Q There are information and data-sharing initiatives as part of the Bill. How would you interact with those measures and with the joint money laundering intelligence taskforce?

Mark Thompson: We do already interact with the joint money laundering intelligence taskforce, and we have a representative who attends it. We have access to that through the National Crime Agency. The data-sharing provisions are mainly for the NCA, and we would benefit from those arrangements. We entirely support them and think they would be advantageous.

[Dr Huq]

Q Are there any other changes to the existing proceeds of crime regime that you would like to see in the Bill? I was thinking of some sort of parallel enhanced supervision of the property market. Is there anything else on your wish list that you would have liked to see?

Nick Price: From a CPS perspective, we are content with the provisions in the Bill for now. It is too early at this stage to know how those will play out and the impact they will have. Inevitably, we will assess the use of these provisions as we go forward.

Mark Thompson: These are the second changes to the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 in relatively recent succession. We still need to work out exactly how we use all these powers effectively. Like the CPS, I am content with where we are.

Simon York: We are content and very supportive.

Investigatory Powers Bill

Scott Mann Excerpts

Tuesday 15th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Scott Mann (North Cornwall) (Con)]

I know that there are strong feelings about the Bill on both sides of the House, but for me, it pits two fundamental issues against each other: privacy and security. Although the United Kingdom has no constitution, it is the leading light in laying down the main principles of democracy: such fundamental principles as “innocent until proved guilty”, trial by jury, freedom of expression, freedom of speech, and the right to privacy. Meanwhile, we have some of the best and most sophisticated intelligence agencies, which keep us safe and work around the clock with our world partners to tackle global crime and terrorism.

Along with their responsibility for maintaining our fundamental democratic rights, the Government have a responsibility to keep their citizens safe. Over time, the principles by which we live have evolved. In 1967, for instance, the House rightly passed the Sexual Offences Act, which decriminalised homosexuality and allowed thousands of people openly to express their love for others of the same gender. Likewise, in recent years we have seen a revolution in technology and the ability to communicate by many means: by telephone, letter, email or text message, and through the use of mobile phones, tablets, radios, computers, cameras, or pen and paper.

Even decades ago, when members of the public did not have computers or mobile phones, the right to privacy was under scrutiny as security agencies tapped telephone lines and secretly opened mail. For years the police have been able to look at people’s phone records. Just as that new form of technology had to be monitored so that criminals and terrorists could be caught, today’s emerging technologies, including encryption, should be monitored effectively. To those who oppose the extension of these powers from telephones to the internet, I say this: why should the internet be the one part of people’s lives that is off limits to surveillance? The security services must have the same ability to catch criminals and terrorists—through modern forms of communication —as they did 50 years ago.

Over the decades, we have seen a degree of balance, but in the background we have always had a Government who wish to keep us safe, and who use highly trained people and advanced technologies to identify threats in order to protect the freedoms by which we live. As the present Government address the increasing threat that we face, it is imperative that we continue to afford our citizens the same level of privacy and freedom that they have always had, and for the sake of which millions have people have put their lives on the line. I am therefore very pleased that the Government worked so constructively with campaign groups when drawing up the Bill.

In 2015, three reports concluded that the law was unfit for purpose. First, the Anderson report recommended that judges authorise communication intercept requests, and also recommended the creation of an intelligence commissioner. Secondly, the Intelligence and Security Committee’s report concluded that the legal framework within existing laws had developed “piecemeal” and was “unnecessarily complicated”. Its key recommendation was for a new Act of Parliament that would strengthen privacy protections and improve transparency. Thirdly, the report of the independent surveillance review by the Royal United Services Institute also concluded that new legislation was needed, and that warrants relating to national security that were signed by Secretaries of State should be subject to judicial review.

The Bill addresses the recommendations and concerns contained in those three reports. It keeps the principles of our democracy at the heart of its mission to stop criminals, terrorists, child traffickers and abusers, and, ultimately, to save lives. That is why I shall support it this evening.