Public Trust in National Politics
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts(6 months, 2 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
Regarding the substance of the noble Baroness’s question, this Government have made over 3,000 policy announcements in the last 18 months because of the mess that we inherited from the previous Government. We may have made 14 U-turns, but that is because we have listened where things needed to be tweaked. We have had to do so many things so quickly that it is not a surprise that, occasionally, we have to reflect on whether they were the right things to do.
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster (Lab)
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that building trust in politics needs to start with young people? The measures in the national youth strategy on civic engagement are extremely important, but we need to stop the misinformation on politics that is directed specifically at young people. Can she assure me that the Government will engage with tech company bosses to prevent this poisonous spread of misinformation?
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My noble friend is absolutely right that one of the biggest challenges we face—and I say this as my stepdaughter is 15 years old—is what young people are exposed to online, but there is a balance here with the fact that current 13 and 14 year-olds will be voting at the next general election. We need to balance protecting them with making sure that they have access to accurate information and that, through the national curriculum, they are taught how to interrogate information so they know what is right and wrong and can ask questions of the people who seek to represent them.
Government Resilience Action Plan
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts(1 year, 1 month ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
I am very aware of the noble Lord’s interest. He is absolutely right that we have, too often, relied on our military to fix holes. One of the things I should have said in response to the noble Baroness, Lady Finn, is about module 1 of the Covid recommendations—I think either recommendation 2 or 10—about the Cabinet Office versus a lead department dealing with resilience issues. This pertains system-wide and relates to the question raised by the noble Lord. The Cabinet Office is strengthening its core to make sure that we can have cross-government oversight, but we will retain the lead department model. As part of ensuring the strengthening of our core, we would obviously seek to undertake a clear audit, to make sure that everyone has appropriate provision in place for any crisis. In fact, one of the things the action plan seeks to do is to ensure a baseline of resilience, which will require such data-gathering exercises.
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster (Lab)
My Lords, noble Lords have referred to intelligence sharing and co-operation between government departments, but many aspects of the resilience plan will rely on international co-operation. Certainly, for example, on cyber intelligence sharing. At the annual meeting of the OSCE last week, there was wide discussion on how to make democratic elections resilient to misinformation and foreign interference. This is becoming an increasing problem and I am not sure we are taking it seriously enough at the moment; we certainly need to turn our attention to it. Will my noble friend the Minister agree that deepening our ties with organisations such as the OSCE and the Council of Europe, and looking at that particular aspect of intelligence sharing, would strengthen our international resilience as well as our national resilience.
Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)
My noble friend makes a very important point. Sometimes it is easy to separate our online and our offline worlds. With the issue of misinformation and the cyber threats we currently face, there is a clear crossover between online and offline and the impact that can have. This is clearly a space where we need to operate internationally, and we do so. Only recently, my honourable friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster met with the Japanese cyber Minister, to make sure we were having cross-country communications. Deepening our intelligence ties through both existing networks, and also through our responsibilities under Article 3 of NATO, as well as ensuring we are one step ahead of both cyber and misinformation threats, will be key, given the current threats we face as a country.
Northern Ireland
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts(2 years, 5 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Ian Paisley
Minister, I congratulate you on your promotion, but I commiserate with you because you will be dealing more and more with me and my colleagues. We will test you to the nth degree—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. Obviously, the hon. Gentleman is not testing me.
Ian Paisley
I apologise for my enthusiasm, Madam Deputy Speaker; we will test the Minister to the nth degree.
I want to make a point about whiskey, not because the hour is late but because it is an important point. A point was made about tariffs, and a certain whiskey company in my constituency was mentioned—I think it probably dreads being mentioned, because it just wants to get on with trade. Any tariffs of the sort that came into effect in 1801, imposed on Bushmills whiskey by the Acts of Union, were actually removed at a very important historical juncture for this nation. They were removed in 1879 during—guess what?—the great home rule debates, in order to calm things down. Maybe, just maybe, we need to learn that lesson from history, and remove these borders and the problems that have been put in place, in order to calm things down. If we learn that lesson from history, that whiskey company in my constituency—the premier whiskey constituency and whiskey company in the whole British Isles—will continue to do exceptionally well.
I should say for the record that not a single additional tariff has been placed on whiskey throughout the whole period of the protocol, so there is nothing to be removed. The history is incredibly interesting. Tariffs on Irish whiskey were brought in in the 1600s because it was the most successful product made on the entire island of Ireland. Then there was the introduction of what was called the whiskey tax, which became known as the Parliament tax of 1661. Only companies that paid the tax were registered, so the 1,200 whiskey distilleries across Ireland suddenly became 40. I am not saying the others ceased to exist; they just did the Irish thing of not paying their tax. That was a very important distinction.
Of course, the tax on Irish whiskey was brought in to protect the Scottish market. The fledgling whisky market developed about 40 or 50 years after the Irish whiskey market in the early 1400s. In order to protect the Scottish whisky market, the Parliament here decided to engage in protectionism of its Scottish market. I am glad that that was removed—it ought to have been—allowing the Northern Irish whiskey trade to continue to flourish, particularly given that it is a much better product and is spelled correctly.
I look forward to the Minister’s responses to the several questions that I have asked. I urge him to deliver action, not just big words.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Before I bring in the next speaker, I should say that I want to ensure that the Minister has at least 10 minutes to wind up. If the remaining speakers kept to about 10 minutes each, that would do the trick. I call Carla Lockhart.
United Kingdom Internal Market
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts(2 years, 6 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Baker
I agree with my right hon. and learned Friend, who demonstrates his expertise.
I look forward as much as anyone to the re-establishment of the Assembly and the Executive, and along with that the re-establishment of the north-south institutions. They are much needed and I look forward to their work. I do not mind admitting that I find myself able to work constructively with politicians of all political parties in Northern Ireland, and I am glad to do so.
Let me return, in concluding, to what is at stake in this process. I firmly believe that all parties in this House and all parties eligible to form part of an Executive want Northern Ireland to work. I have seen what unites political leaders in Northern Ireland: a real determination to make life better for their constituents—and, my goodness, on a wide range of fronts that is necessary—and to allow Northern Ireland to grasp the opportunities of the future—and what opportunities they are. I elaborated on some of the things Northern Ireland has before it right now. If we combine the institutional arrangements before Northern Ireland with the very substantial financial package to transform public services and deal with the public finances, and if Northern Irish politicians reach out and grasp the opportunity now before them, they can make Northern Ireland a beacon to the world—a beacon of prosperity and, I hope, of reconciliation. These regulations are part of that process and I commend them to everyone in the House.
Several hon. Members rose—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I am trying to get an idea of how many Members wish to speak. Some who had indicated that they wanted to speak are now not standing—fine. That is very helpful. I call the SNP spokesperson.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. I believe the hon. Gentleman has finished his speech. I call Gavin Robinson.
Gavin Robinson
It is always good to hear from the hon. Gentleman, but he knowingly confuses my point. He knows that Coca-Cola being situated in Northern Ireland and sending its products throughout the island of Ireland is a point that recognises our access to the single market, with which I take no issue—I see it as a practical benefit. He also ignores the fact that, in Northern Ireland, Coca-Cola is able to manage different tax regimes, different currencies and many different aspects which, in and of themselves, clearly demonstrate that there is no all-Ireland economy. I am not concerned about there being one, but I am concerned that there is one remaining reference in legislation that is totally irrelevant and has no force in effect but requires Ministers to have due regard to something that does not exist, and is part of this agreement.
The Northern Ireland Protocol Bill accepted red and green lanes but, under this new arrangement, there is no need for a lane to deal with goods coming from GB to NI and staying within the United Kingdom internal market. The checks required by the Windsor framework— tapering down to 5% by 2025 but, in real terms, 100% on some fruit and veg, 30% on meat, fish and poultry, and 15% on dairy—are gone, save for the ordinary checks we have in relation to smuggling and criminality. Those changes can only be achieved by opening the EU text and securing change in a way that we were told could not happen, that we were told was mythical or wishful thinking.
Madam Deputy Speaker, you have been very gracious in letting me speak around the SI up until this point. In the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, the Government proposed many things that were to be of benefit to us, but they dropped them. They had our support in protecting our place within the UK internal market, but they dropped the proposals. This deal brings them back again, but it also goes further.
Other Members have commented on this, but proposed new section 45A(2) of the 2020 Act says:
“Accordingly, this Act—
(a) prohibits the application of export procedures to goods removed from Northern Ireland to Great Britain”.
Whether or not Members think it has practical import, I can say as a Unionist that it has principled import. There should be no exit procedures. The exit procedures under the Northern Ireland protocol have caused us so much harm, and they have gone. That is important for all of us.
Subsection (3) says:
“In particular, that permanent unfettered access is achieved in relation to qualifying Northern Ireland goods through (among other things)—
(a) the mutual recognition”.
Mutual recognition has been discussed many times in this House, and it is an aspiration we all share. We were told it was mythical. We were told it was a unicorn project. We were told that it could never be achieved because the EU would never agree, yet in this SI, we have mutual recognition—something that could do away with the checks, the impediments and the impositions that were put upon us by this Parliament and resolve the barriers to trade within our own country. Something that had consequences for the principled and political integrity of our country is now gone, because we have achieved mutual recognition.
Why is that important? It is important in the context of the debate we have been having across the House. I am proud that we have put in measures about internal market impact assessments that probably seem a little boring, methodical and bureaucratic, but even if we go through the process of getting civil servants and policy- makers to understand that any choice they make could have an impact on the UK internal market and Northern Ireland’s place within it, to understand what those impacts are and seek to address them, and even if the conclusion is that parliamentary sovereignty reigns and the principal policymakers in this place decide that they will diverge in policy terms from where we are in Northern Ireland, we have a goods guarantee. Nobody on the DUP Benches is going to upset parliamentary sovereignty, but we will protect our place within this United Kingdom.
The goods guarantee—the mutual recognition that says that, irrespective of the standards that apply in either part of this country, our goods from Northern Ireland will always be welcome in the rest of the United Kingdom—is a gain. It is a gain even when others did not see it as a problem, because it future-proofs our place within this United Kingdom. It is something that was absent from the Windsor framework. It has been a long quest for all of those who have walked hard yards to resolve some of the issues that have arisen from our choice to leave the European Union, but our determination on those issues has never wavered, and a resolution has been achieved.
New section 46A of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act deals with indirect access. In that section, our Government are now saying very clearly that there can be no administrative checks, controls and processes, not only for direct movements between one part of our country and another but for indirect movements—direct movements, but for the fact that the goods have merely passed through the Republic of Ireland. That crystallises yet again the fact that we are not in an all-Ireland economy: we are different from our near neighbours. Legislatively, Northern Ireland hauliers and Northern Ireland businesses that are sending goods from Northern Ireland to Great Britain will be able to do so in an unfettered way, even if they travel through a foreign country. Those controls will not apply to them.
Those achievements are worth focusing on, because we have been trying to resolve the unresolvable—to get focus on places where attention had moved elsewhere. It has taken much longer than we would have liked. I am sure that many Members on other Benches would have preferred the process to end a lot sooner as well, if only we had agreed to less, but we were not prepared to do so. The Windsor framework marked progress, but we said that there were unresolved issues: not only the potential for future divergence in GB that would put us in a difficult position, or gains that were offered in the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill or, indeed, the United Kingdom Internal Market Act that were ultimately dropped—which we have now brought back and secured, and this Parliament is agreeing to—but resolving the unresolvable in a way that will have practical application for Northern Ireland, and for our place within this United Kingdom, now and for a long time to come.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I have three more Members wishing to speak. I want to bring the Minister in at 3.18 pm, so perhaps people could bear that in mind.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
There are two speakers left, and I suggest they speak for nine minutes each.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I will bring in the Minister no later than 3.18 pm.
Northern Ireland
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts(2 years, 6 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Hilary Benn
It is very kind of the right hon. Gentleman to say that we are intensely relaxed about the prospect that we might form the next Government, and who am I to disagree with him in that observation?
The point about divergence is that it is a choice. It is striking to note the number of instances since we left the European Union when the current Government decided that they were going to diverge, and then suddenly had second thoughts about it because it did not really make a lot of sense. I make no apology for having given the example of the veterinary SPS agreement that we would like to reach, because it would help our businesses in the UK, businesses in Northern Ireland and businesses in the European Union. That is my definition of common-sense negotiation—the decision has been made, but that does not mean Britain cannot seek to improve the relationship we have with the European Union in our interests and the interests of our European neighbours.
I also welcome regulation 3(3), which would require a Minister before the Second Reading of a Bill containing provisions that would affect trade between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom either to make a statement that it would not have such an effect, or to set out the reasons why the Government want to proceed none the less. It may be difficult at this stage, but I wonder whether the Secretary of State in winding up could give us an example of the circumstances in which Ministers might want to make use of the provisions in proposed new section 13C(2)(b) to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act, found at the top of page 4 of the regulations. In other words, in what circumstances would the Government want to proceed with legislation even though it would have an adverse effect?
I welcome the clarifications made in regulation 4 regarding any independent review that may follow the democratic consent vote. That vote by Assembly Members must take place, as I understand it, by the end of this year. Has the Secretary of State had any discussions with Northern Ireland political parties as to when, exactly, that vote might take place, or does he intend to do so, or is it entirely a matter for those parties?
I will return in the subsequent debate to the matters I wish to raise on the UK internal market regulations, Madam Deputy Speaker. I now bring my remarks to a close.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
There is obviously a big time pressure on this debate. I want to bring the Secretary of State back in at 1.49 pm, so I urge colleagues to be brief if they possibly can. I call the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.
Sir Robert Buckland
I feel the emotion and hear the proper points that the hon. Gentleman makes. The process became the legislative and constitutional equivalent of brain surgery, and the patient was Northern Ireland. Everybody was feeling it. This is not just an archaic debate: this is a debate about the business and economy of Northern Ireland. This is real and important for the businesses that right hon. and hon. Members represent—absolutely right —which is why the hon. Gentleman’s party should claim proper credit for the painstaking approach that he and his colleagues, including the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson), have shown in this process. They have not taken no for an answer. They have actually sought to try to reach a solution and be part of that brain surgery process—that neurological change.
But I say gently to the hon. Gentleman that there is a distinction between the integral part that Northern Ireland plays in our United Kingdom constitution and our internal market—our single market—and the inevitable access that Northern Ireland will have to the EU single market. Why? Because of the nature of the border that exists in Northern Ireland, the unique nature of its status and all the history and, indeed, the reality that goes with that. That is why there is not going to be an elegant or perfect solution to all this. It was always going to involve compromise.
Compromise is a difficult word—it implies weakness and fudging; it implies a lack of clarity—but right hon. and hon. Members opposite have recognised that that is the world in which they operate, which is why we are able to be here today to debate important changes that will underpin not just declaratory words about Northern Ireland’s place within the UK internal market, but concrete actions that are set out in the Command Paper. I am thinking in particular of the operation of the Stormont brake. Yes, we need to see more guidance about its operation—we need to understand the evidential thresholds that will be required for MLAs to bring the brake to the attention of the UK Government to lodge their objections; that work has to be done—but today will allow it to happen.
In its judgment, the Supreme Court looked in particular at the question of the sovereignty of Parliament, and affirmed that—as article 6 of the Acts of Union itself recognised—it is the most fundamental rule of UK constitutional law. There is nothing novel, unexpected or controversial about that, which is why some of the language that emerged from that case was not just unhelpful but wrong. I know that the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley, the leader of the Democratic Unionist party, shares my view. It was time for leadership, and leadership means being straightforward and getting it right. That is why I commend the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues for the work that they have done: they got it right, and as a result of their approach we are able today, I hope, to pass this much-needed change. I welcome it warmly, I commend my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, and I commend this measure to the House.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call the Scottish National party spokesperson.
Several hon. Members rose—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
Order. Let me once again emphasise the need for brevity so that we can get the majority of people in.
Northern Ireland Budget (No. 2) Bill
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster ExcerptsMonday 4th September 2023
(2 years, 11 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Northern Ireland Budget (No. 2) Act 2023 View all Northern Ireland Budget (No. 2) Act 2023 Debates Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Committee of the whole House Amendments as at 4 September 2023 - (4 Sep 2023)
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Steve Baker)
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I think the Mace is in the wrong place.
The First Deputy Chairman
Very well spotted—it will be moved. Thank you.
Clause 1
Use of resources
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
The First Deputy Chairman
With this it will be convenient to consider the following:
Clauses 2 to 9 stand part
The schedule.
I should point out that no amendments have been selected, so colleagues will need to speak very specifically to the clauses, should they wish to speak, but there will obviously be an opportunity for Members to contribute on Third Reading as well.
The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I will call the right hon. and learned Gentleman, but I remind colleagues that there are Third Reading speeches and Committee speeches, and general discussion about the merits of the Bill is probably safer in Third Reading.
Sir Robert Buckland
Thank you Dame Rosie. I will trespass upon your good will by focusing on clause 1 and the necessity of what we have to pass today. I will not repeat the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), which I think are sadly axiomatic in a situation that is difficult and not in the long-term interests—or even the short-term interests—of the people of Northern Ireland. It is certainly not in the interests of sustainable public services.
On the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, we hear time and again from interested groups from the voluntary sector and the third sector in Northern Ireland about the difficulties they face with the absence of long-term planning and multi-year budgets, and the effect on their ability to retain and hire people who can do the important work of providing and helping to support public services, whether in the field of health, education or disability, for example.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
May I begin by expressing my thanks to my predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for Hove (Peter Kyle), who has already been mentioned this evening, for the outstanding contribution he made in this role and to wish him well in his new job?
It is clear from the debates during the Bill’s passage that the current situation was not sustainable, hence the need for the Bill. Public services are under strain. Indeed, the Minister has just said that the pressures are acute and I agree with him. It is noticeable that the Bill has been widely perceived as a budget that does not take account of those needs and those pressures. It is clear that we cannot keep setting budgets in this way and that the structural problems in Northern Ireland are getting worse in the absence of an Executive. It is not fair or right to ask civil servants to make decisions which politicians should be making. The political vacuum in Northern Ireland is having serious consequences. The crisis facing the police service is all too evident—we discussed that earlier today in the urgent question—and the Secretary of State heard many references to the financial pressures it is already facing, never mind the costs that may arise from responding to the data breach. But there are concerns about other Departments, too. NHS waiting lists for Northern Ireland are the worst in our country. There are reports that Northern Ireland schools are only now being surveyed for structural weaknesses caused by reinforced concrete. If that finds that costs are required to be met to repair or replace those roofs, will that money have to come out of the budget set by the Bill? I understand that the Secretary of State has received advice from civil servants about possible revenue-raising measures. How does he plan to use them? Will they be published?
Those and other challenges are the stuff of Government. It is what we are elected to deal with wherever it is that we sit, but that is not happening in Northern Ireland at the moment and it needs to in the interests of its citizens, a point made very clearly by the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), who chairs the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. On Second Reading before the recess, the Secretary of State said:
“The summer therefore presents an opportunity for the Northern Ireland parties to come together as a restored Executive and take their own budget legislation through the Assembly, making the remaining stages of the Bill in this place superfluous.”—[Official Report, 10 July 2023; Vol. 736, c. 101.]
Now, we would all wish that that had happened but, as my hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) pointed out, it is not entirely clear what was done over the summer by the Government to try to bring the Northern Ireland parties together. We know that the Prime Minister was very happy to visit Northern Ireland after the Windsor framework—a great achievement, but it was meant to restore power sharing—but his absence since has been noticeable. And it is not clear, to be honest, what the Government’s plan is now to regain trust, including by responding to the continuing concerns expressed by the Unionist community in Northern Ireland to enable the institutions to get up and running again.
The Labour party does not oppose the Bill as to do so would cause deeper instability, but, as I think everybody who has contributed so far tonight has said, the best and only way forward is the restoration of Stormont so that local representatives can get to grips with the budget and be accountable to the people who elected them, the people of Northern Ireland, for the decisions they make. Frankly, that day cannot come soon enough.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call the Scottish National party spokesperson.
Northern Ireland (Interim Arrangements) Bill
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster ExcerptsWednesday 10th May 2023
(3 years, 3 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Northern Ireland (Interim Arrangements) Act 2023 View all Northern Ireland (Interim Arrangements) Act 2023 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Committee of the whole House Amendments as at 10 May 2023 - (10 May 2023)
The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I remind Members that in Committee, they should not address the Chair as “Deputy Speaker”. Please use our names. Madam Chair, Chair, and Madam Chairman or Mr Chairman are also acceptable.
Claire Hanna
I beg to move amendment 6, page 1, line 12, leave out “when an Executive is formed” and insert—
“when the Executive Committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly has completed a formal meeting at which substantive business has been transacted”.
The First Deputy Chairman
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Clause stand part.
Amendment 5, in clause 2, page 2, line 15, at end insert—
“such as providing advice in relation to the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council’s 2023 Report, Updated estimate of the relative need for public spending in Northern Ireland, and the precedent arising from the December 2016 Agreement between the Welsh Government and the United Kingdom Government on the Welsh Government’s fiscal framework”.
Amendment 7, page 2, line 21, leave out “may” and insert “must”.
Amendment 8, page 2, line 21, at end, leave out paragraph (a) and insert—
“(aa) consulting the Equality Commission, the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission and the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council;
(ab) who else is to be consulted;”.
Amendment 9, page 2, line 24, leave out from “consultation” to end of line 27.
Amendment 2, page 2, line 28, at end insert—
“(4A) The Secretary of State must direct a Northern Ireland department to commission a report to provide an assessment of expenditure costs associated with communal divisions for the purpose of developing options for improving the sustainability of public finances in Northern Ireland.”
This amendment would provide a report to make an updated assessment of the financial costs associated with a divided society and how they could be redirected to improve financial sustainability.
Amendment 3, page 2, line 28, at end insert—
“(4A) The Secretary of State must engage—
(a) with Northern Ireland departments to explore options to transform public services and the economy in order to identify options for improving the sustainability of public finances in Northern Ireland;
(b) with the Treasury on options to provide an invest to save fund to support the transformation and sustainability of public finances in Northern Ireland.”
This amendment would direct the Secretary of State to explore an invest-to-save transformation fund.
Amendment 4, page 2, line 28, at end insert—
“(4A) The Secretary of State must engage with Northern Ireland departments and the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council to produce a needs-based assessment of funding compared to the Barnett formula in order to address the financial sustainability of Northern Ireland, specifically considering changes in relative need arising from differences in population characteristics and socio-economic conditions between Northern Ireland and England, to prevent the funding premium from falling below relative need.”
This amendment would direct the Secretary of State to explore the prospect for a needs-based spending floor and percentage uplift in Barnett consequentials to reflect relative need in Northern Ireland.
Clause 2 stand part.
Amendment 11, in clause 3, page 3, line 20, after “2022” insert—
“during a period when the Assembly is not functioning”.
This amendment would limit the exemption from Assembly scrutiny of directions under this Bill to only periods when the Assembly is not functioning, rather than throughout the period when there is no Executive.
Clauses 3 to 7 stand part.
New clause 2—Assembly power to exercise accountability over section 5A directions—
“(1) In a period where the Assembly is functioning but there is still no Executive, nothing in this Act will prevent a committee so mandated by the Assembly from seeking or taking evidence from relevant Northern Ireland departments or consultees named in any direction by the Secretary of State under section 5A of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2022 in respect of options which might be considered or developed on foot of such a direction.
(2) In such a period as described in subsection (1), a committee report adopted after a vote of the Assembly shall duly inform relevant departments and the Secretary of State in respect of relevant stated options for raising more public revenue in Northern Ireland or otherwise improving the sustainability of public finances in Northern Ireland.”
Claire Hanna
I rise to speak to amendment 6 in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Colum Eastwood), and to make brief comments on a couple of other amendments.
We absolutely echo and share the frustrations of others that we are doing yet another of these Bills in this place. I am struggling to think of a single such Bill—certainly in the three and a half years that we have been here—that was neither a cause nor an effect of Stormont dysfunction, which occupies rather too much time here and limits our potential. We understand the need for interim decision making, but the Bill risks going too far in bypassing Assembly scrutiny. Our amendments aim to address that by guarding against the potential use of graduated responses or the other fairly unedifying stunts that we have seen when the Assembly is being used as a political tool or weapon, and against the cynical use of such Bills to do things that damage public services in the name of reform, as a way to avoid responsibility and scrutiny.
The DUP’s new clause 1(3) instances the possibility of the Assembly functioning in some way alongside these new powers in the absence of an Executive. I want to be absolutely clear: there is, as others have said, no alternative in the here and now to devolution under the Good Friday institutions. People are ready to suspend their disbelief one more time and go back in to make that work, but a graduated response allowing these powers to be deployed to do all the grisly stuff through indirect rule, and turning it into some soap opera where everybody is hopping up and down and opposing the changes, will not be appropriate.
We cannot set up civil servants to instigate and drive controversial issues only to get them out of the way before everyone goes back in. We absolutely need reform in public services, but we need it to be done with scrutiny, not just as a mask for austerity. It needs to be done in a way that builds public trust so that people say, “Yes, you may lose service A, but you will gain service B and C”. Amendment 6 would support and evidence some of those necessary reforms by designing in a role for the Fiscal Council—a body that we have been hugely supportive of—as well as for the Human Rights Commission and the Equality Commissions as consultees. Those bodies are truly creatures of the Good Friday agreement. They are there for a reason and they should have a role in this as well, to give them a locus and so that, as I say, it is not used in a cynical way.
I want to address briefly the contradictions in the messaging we are getting about sustainable finances. There is, rightly, a serious public conversation going on about the sustainability of Stormont’s finances and structures. It is absolutely right to tackle the lack of responsibility-taking in our region, which in its century of existence has never enjoyed good governance. It is appropriate that we do that in a genuinely transformative way.
I also want to address the contradiction in what has been said about sustainable services in the light of the punishing and severe budget we face. What is more sustainable to invest in than children and young people, their health, education, future and resilience? The proposed cuts to the extended schools programme, Bright Start mental health support, pathway funds, education authority schools and youth services—alongside the loss of European social funding for Women’s Centre, which provides childcare and many other forms of family support—are the furthest thing from being sustainable. St Malachy’s youth club in the market area of my constituency does a mind-blowing array of interventions with young people, including homework support, citizenship, fitness, nutrition and lawfulness, making them good citizens and getting them ready for the world and the jobs out there. What is sustainable about its finances being cut by over a third, which will undermine all of its work with those young people? We have put off hard decisions for too long, but it is really important that this Bill is not used as a mask for the same austerity that we have had for over a decade, which does not change outcomes and limits the potential of our young people and of our economy, because they are its future.
I want to address a couple of other amendments. Amendment 1 is a vital intervention by the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy), who has, crucially, been vigilant on the ticking timebomb of the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill, which has the potential not only to deepen and widen the implications of any sea border for goods and for rights, but to dramatically undermine economic sectors and actors on this island. We have absolutely no interest in doing that, so I hope that the reports that there has been change of direction on that very damaging Bill—like others, we wish to hear about those reports in the appropriate place and to have the opportunity to scrutinise them—are correct.
Finally, I support amendment 4, tabled by the hon. Member for North Down (Stephen Farry), which is prudent and sensible in addressing the cost of division. It is time to get on. There is endemic division in our schools and communities. It is time to get past pointing at it and to start the process of reform, transformation and giving people a feasible way to live shared and integrated lives.
The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I call the shadow Minister.
Tonia Antoniazzi
I will keep my comments brief as I do not want to repeat what was said on Second Reading. Labour does not oppose the Bill as it is a necessary step to ensuring that governance in Northern Ireland can continue in the absence of a functioning Executive. The amendments show a clear indication from the Northern Ireland parties that improving Northern Ireland’s financial stability is a priority. Indeed, the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council’s recent work was highlighted a number of times. The Secretary of State mentioned during Northern Ireland questions that he had been in conversation with the Fiscal Council. It would be great to hear his assessment of its report and how he intends to proceed with that information.
Continued engagement with the Northern Ireland parties, as well as with bodies such as the Northern Ireland Fiscal Council, is paramount to best representing the people of Northern Ireland. I hope that such engagement from the Secretary of State and the Minister will continue.
Mr Baker
As on the face of the Bill, we will be able to seek advice from officials in the Northern Ireland Departments and require consultations, but we will have no powers to implement any of the measures on which we have taken advice. We are clear that devolution is the best way to govern Northern Ireland, as we have said many times.
With that, I am grateful to everyone who has participated in the Committee.
The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I believe that the hon. Member for Belfast South (Claire Hanna) wishes to withdraw her amendment.
Claire Hanna
I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 2 to 7 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
The Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair.
Bill reported, without amendment.
Third Reading
Mr Steve Baker
I beg to move, That Bill be now read the Third time.
It is not an especially happy occasion. As the House has fleshed out, we see before us the many difficult decisions that lie ahead. But it is a necessary occasion, as we have all agreed.
I want to place on record my thanks to everyone involved in the Bill’s passage through the House for their support of its expedited passage. I particularly thank the Front Benchers of all parties for their collaborative and constructive engagement on the legislation, recognising the importance of getting it on the statute books to avoid a governance gap from 5 June. I place on record my appreciation to the House authorities, particularly the Clerks who, as ever, have guided us in an expert fashion. I thank the excellent Diggory Bailey in the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel for the expert fashion in which he and colleagues drafted the Bill. I thank my colleagues and officials in the Government Whips office for helping us progress in a smooth fashion, and in particular on this occasion for not putting me under undue time pressure. I am most grateful to them, as always.
I conclude by repeating what I said at Second Reading. People in Northern Ireland rightfully expect to see these decisions taken in Stormont not Westminster, and I agree with them. I think the House does, too.
Peter Kyle
I rise briefly to express my gratitude to the Minister for seeing the Bill so deftly through all its stages today, and also to share his thanks to those who made it happen and those who have spoken today.
The Minister has repeated numerous times today a sentiment that we all share, which is in fact shared by all the Northern Ireland parties and leaders themselves: namely, the desire for Stormont to be up and running again. I would just remind him, when he points to and urges members of Northern Ireland parties, that he is a Minister in the UK Government, and the UK Government have some skin in the game. They have some agency when it comes to the functioning relationships within Northern Ireland—those core relationships between the Irish Government, all the Irish parties and the UK Government.
Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster ExcerptsWednesday 22nd February 2023
(3 years, 5 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Northern Ireland (Executive Formation and Organ and Tissue Donation) Act 2023 View all Northern Ireland (Executive Formation and Organ and Tissue Donation) Act 2023 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Committee of the whole House Amendments as at 22 February 2023 - (22 Feb 2023)
Chris Heaton-Harris
The former Secretary of State has, in his own words, described the seriousness with which everyone takes Northern Ireland and its politics, and especially its people—and those people in Northern Ireland want their locally elected representatives to go back to work. So do I, and so, I believe, does everyone in the House, notwithstanding the tiny bit of work that we have to do with our European Union partners. This Bill will lay the groundwork for that to happen, and I therefore commend it to the House.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
May I add my own warm welcome to our very special guest Dáithí and his family?
I now call the shadow Secretary of State.
Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson
I thank the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee for that point. Of course, Norway is a sovereign country; Northern Ireland is not. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, and it is the Government of the United Kingdom who are the sovereign authority in these matters. We need to look at this not just at the level of our democratic institutions in Northern Ireland, but in relation to the mechanisms for the Government of the United Kingdom to intervene in circumstances where the UK’s internal market, and Northern Ireland’s place within it, is threatened by EU laws—whether they be changes to existing laws or new laws that are introduced. We cannot have a situation where, in respect of our trade across the Irish border, EU laws that apply to that trade impact on our ability to trade within the internal market of the United Kingdom. We certainly cannot have the situation that has arisen with the protocol, where article 6 of the Acts of Union, which govern the economic union of the United Kingdom and our place in it, is impliedly repealed by this House. That must be avoided in the future. In any arrangements, we need to have a safeguard that protects article 6 of the Acts of Union—our right to trade within the internal market of the United Kingdom without barriers being put in our way.
As I draw my remarks to a close, may I say that the reason we are here is that the protocol has undermined the cross-community consensus that is necessary, which my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) referenced in his comments, to ensure that we have stable, functioning institutions in Northern Ireland. We are approaching the 25th anniversary of the Belfast/Good Friday agreement, so let us not also lose sight of the successor agreements. We know that at St Andrew’s, at Hillsborough and at Stormont we have had to make changes that improve the way that Northern Ireland is governed. I have heard in recent days clarion calls to look again at the way in which our institutions operate and the principles at the heart of the agreement.
Let me put down a very clear marker on behalf of my party and, I believe, on behalf of Unionism generally: if the road that some want to take on reform is exclusion; if the road that some want to take on reform is majority rule; if the road that some want to take abandons the principle of cross-community consensus in Northern Ireland, that will not be acceptable to my party now or at any stage in the future. It is those principles that are essential to ensure that there is cross-community support for our political institutions in Northern Ireland. I say to the Government that, while we will look at what change can be made to improve the governance of Northern Ireland, we will not countenance the abandonment of that cross-community consensus that is at the heart of our institutions. In that respect, I welcome the comments made by the shadow Secretary of State that that is also the position of the Labour party. I recognise, too, the contributions that Tony Blair and others made to bringing the agreement together and the very delicate balances at the heart of that agreement. They must be protected as we go forward.
Madam Deputy Speaker, I hope that, within the timeframe that this Bill creates between now and next January for an election, we will see an outcome on negotiations and legislation that will bring fundamental change that will respect and restore Northern Ireland’s place within the United Kingdom and its internal market, that will ensure that we are not in a situation where we are rule takers from the EU and where EU law affects our ability to trade within the United Kingdom. That is not acceptable. Where we trade within our own country, the rules that apply should be those of the United Kingdom. Where we trade with the European Union, the rules that apply should be those of the European Union. That is clear. The protocol does not deliver that, and we need a solution that does.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
May I remind Members that if they intervene during a speech, they should stay for the entirety of that speech, in case something they have said is referred back to. Sadly, those who are guilty of this have probably left the Chamber, but we can remind them when they return.
Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Bill
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster ExcerptsWednesday 22nd February 2023
(3 years, 5 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Northern Ireland (Executive Formation and Organ and Tissue Donation) Act 2023 View all Northern Ireland (Executive Formation and Organ and Tissue Donation) Act 2023 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Committee of the whole House Amendments as at 22 February 2023 - (22 Feb 2023)
The Chairman of Ways and Means (Dame Rosie Winterton)
With this it will be convenient to consider the following:
Government amendments 3 to 5.
Amendment 1, in clause 2, page 2, line 17, after “Formation” insert
“and Organ and Tissue Donation (Deemed Consent)”.
This amendment is consequential on NC1.
Clause 2 stand part.
Government new clause 2—Organ and tissue donation in Northern Ireland: procedure for regulations defining permitted material.
New clause 1—Organ and Tissue Donation (Deemed Consent) Act (Northern Ireland) 2022: temporary provision—
‘(1) Section 52 (orders and regulations) of the Human Tissue Act 2004 is amended as follows.
(2) After subsection (4B), insert—
“(4BA) During the current post-election period, subsection (4B) applies as if for “the Northern Ireland Assembly” there were substituted “each House of Parliament.”
(4BB) In this section “the current post-election period” has the same meaning as in section 1 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2022.”’
This new clause is intended to bring into operation during the current post-election period the Organ and Tissue Donation (Deemed Consent) Act (Northern Ireland) 2022, which received Royal Assent on 30 March 2022, by temporarily allowing Parliament (instead of the Assembly) to approve relevant regulations made by the Department of Health in Northern Ireland.
Government amendment 6.
Amendment 2, in the Title, line 5, at end insert
“; and to make provision in relation to the Organ and Tissue Donation (Deemed Consent) Act (Northern Ireland) 2022”.
This amendment is consequential on NC1.
Omagh Bombing
Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts(3 years, 6 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Chris Heaton-Harris
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind words. As we have seen in previous exchanges at oral questions and in other places, he cares passionately about these matters for all the right reasons and has more than a passing interest in them. I enjoyed meeting him recently to talk about issues in the Bill and I hope that we can continue those discussions, because it is fully my intention to improve it so that I can stand here, when it returns to the Commons, and answer all the points that have been made, knowing, hand on heart, that I am doing the right thing.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)
I thank the Secretary of State for his statement.