Syria

Neil Gray Excerpts

Monday 16th April 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I fear that the message those despots would have taken is that they could use chemical weapons with impunity, and that is unacceptable. We must ensure that the use of such weapons is stopped.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

With two brothers having served, past and present, as officers in the British Army, I of course commend the bravery of our armed forces personnel.

No evidenced chemical attack can go by without consequences, but when our national security was not at immediate risk and when the Prime Minister had time to consult her Cabinet, why did she not recall Parliament so that my constituents could have had their say, as I am convinced they would have done had last week been a sitting week?

[The Prime Minister]

I have already set out the basis on which we took the decision: the need for timeliness and an opportunity for proper planning to ensure that we were able to act in a way that would be effective.

EU Referendum: Electoral Law

Neil Gray Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Chloe Smith)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I shall, with pleasure, leave time for the right hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Tom Brake) to conclude the debate.

There are two things that I ought to begin by saying. The first is that, as a Minister, I shall respect the integrity of independent investigations. I shall therefore not comment here today on allegations that rightly belong with the Information Commissioner’s Office or the Electoral Commission for investigation. I hope that right hon. and hon. Members will join me in respecting that rather important legal principle, which I set out here at the beginning of my remarks to give the House clarity. Secondly, as the Minister responsible for the electoral system, I am proud to say that the UK has a clear and robust electoral system, and we should all be proud of the democracy in which we live and work. I would like to place on record my thanks to all those involved in the electoral community who work hard at every poll to deliver it within the law, such that we can be proud of our democracy.

I turn now to the EU referendum. The Electoral Commission concluded that it was a well-run poll and that it was delivered without any major issues. We also know that it was one of the largest democratic exercises in our history. I recognise that that referendum and its subject matter still elicit high emotions on both sides. Indeed, we have seen that here today. However, with 17.4 million votes to leave the European Union, more people voted for Brexit than have ever voted for anything else in the UK. We therefore have to respect the will of the people in that referendum and we are delivering it. This Government are committed to ensuring the best possible outcome for the British people in the negotiations to leave the EU.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

The Minister has just repeated a line that the Prime Minister used to dismiss my inquiries regarding this matter yesterday. Given that some of the Prime Minister’s Downing Street staff are the subject of these allegations and used disgraceful “House of Cards”-style tactics to divert attention by outing a whistleblower as being gay, and given that senior Cabinet Ministers led the Leave campaign, do not the Prime Minister and her Government have a number of questions to answer regarding these events, outside of the Electoral Commission investigation?

[Chloe Smith]

I will not be adding anything in this debate to what the Prime Minister said on those issues yesterday.

Turning to the matter at hand under the application, I should like to thank hon. Members for their comments during the debate. Various allegations have come out in the media over the past week, and it is important to be clear about what they involve and about which ones are directly linked to the UK’s electoral law and which ones might not be. First, there was a series of allegations about Cambridge Analytica using Facebook data to profile American voters. That is primarily a data protection issue. It is a serious allegation and the Information Commissioner is undertaking a formal investigation using its powers. The Government are strengthening the remit of the Information Commissioner through our Data Protection Bill, giving it tougher powers to ensure that organisations comply with its investigations, including the ability to impose significant fines. We will consider the Information Commissioner’s proposal for further powers as the Bill passes through Parliament.

Secondly, there have been allegations about whether some of the spending ahead of the EU referendum was properly declared. Some of those matters have already been subject to Electoral Commission investigations, and others might well be so in due course. I return to the point I made earlier that I shall not comment on investigations that are being carried out. In this country, the Electoral Commission is the independent body that oversees the conduct of elections and referendums and regulates political finance. The commission reports regularly on the running of elections and referendums, and conducts thorough investigations into allegations that rules have been breached.

[Neil Gray]

rose—

[Chloe Smith]

Does the hon. Gentleman have a better question than the one he asked last time?

[Neil Gray]

Given that the points I made were about the conduct of Downing Street staff and Government Ministers, this is not about the Electoral Commission. It is about the Prime Minister’s integrity and the judgment involved in appointing those members of staff.

[Chloe Smith]

I regret to say that the hon. Gentleman seems to be under a misunderstanding about the debate that you have granted, Mr Speaker. It is about electoral law, and as the Minister responsible for electoral law, I shall answer on that point.

The Electoral Commission is independent of the Government. It is accountable to Parliament via the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission. One important point that has come up today is the suggestion that the Electoral Commission is under-resourced. I encourage hon. Members to look at the commission’s operating costs for this year, which show an underspend against its anticipated budget. Indeed, in January this year, it returned funds. Now, I leave it to others to draw conclusions from that about whether the Electoral Commission is resourced correctly, but I say again that the commission is accountable to Parliament and that such questions could rightly be in looked into by Parliament and your committee, Mr Speaker.

European Council

Neil Gray Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am very clear that people from the United Kingdom will continue to want to work and study in EU27 countries, and that EU citizens will continue to want to work and study here in the United Kingdom. We will be considering some of the specific arrangements that have helped to support students, such as Erasmus, and whether we should continue to be involved in them.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

The Prime Minister mentioned the Brexit referendum. How concerned is she by reports that the Vote Leave campaign may have broken campaign spending limits in the referendum, and would she support investigations into that?

[The Prime Minister]

The question of whether rules were followed in the referendum is a matter for the Electoral Commission. I did refer to the Brexit referendum, because the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the EU, and that is what we will deliver for them.

European Council

Neil Gray Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

As the hon. Gentleman says, we have negotiated in phase 1 a financial settlement that is representative of the commitments I said we would honour over this period. It is there in the context of the future deal being agreed, but I am optimistic we will agree that future deal.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

If there are to be opportunities from Brexit and if we are to avoid the large potential pitfalls, it is crucial that all the nations of these isles have their priorities heard, listened to and acted on. How does the Prime Minister plan to expand consultation with the Governments of all the nations of these isles in the next phase, to avoid the very clear issues from the first phase of the negotiations?

[The Prime Minister]

Discussions and engagement with the devolved Administrations have already been enhanced over recent weeks and months. The First Secretary of State has regular meetings with the Scottish and Welsh Governments. That engagement will continue.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Neil Gray Excerpts

Committee: 4th sitting: House of Commons
Monday 4th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Paul Masterton]

I absolutely agree, but the point is that the amendments proposed by the Scottish and Welsh Governments go far too far. There is some middle ground, on which, if the hon. Gentleman will allow me, I will set out where I believe we can get to.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

Some of the hon. Gentleman’s Conservative colleagues have proposed their own amendments on other areas of the Bill. Why has the Scottish Conservative group of MPs not tabled any amendments to clause 11 if they share his concern?

[Paul Masterton]

For the simple reason that there is another JMC meeting on 12 December, and we do not believe it is right to prejudge or prejudice the outcome of those negotiations. There is going to be an agreement, and it is much better to allow such an agreement to be reached and incorporated into the Bill.

Much has been devolved since 1998, but nothing that jeopardises the UK’s single internal market. It would be in the interests of neither consumers nor producers for product safety and consumer protection rules to be different across the nations of the United Kingdom.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Bowie]

I will not give way, I am afraid, given that I have to wrap up soon.

As things stand today, it is a fact that, thanks to the actions of this Government, the Scottish Parliament is now one of the most powerful devolved legislative Assemblies in the world, with powers over—[Interruption.] It has powers over justice, education, health, transport, the environment and, now, taxation and elements of social security. The jury is still out on whether that is a good thing, but that may be to do with the parties that have been in charge of those regulations, rather than the powers themselves.

Far from Lord Robertson’s claim that devolution would kill nationalism stone dead, we are about to enter our 11th year of nationalist Government in Scotland, so I remain worried for our Union. For me and the people of the north-east of Scotland, which I have the huge privilege to represent, I am afraid that, far from the renewing or revitalising experience promised by the architects of devolution in 1999, the reality of devolution has been cuts, tax rises, a failing education system and the perception of a central-belt bias in all decision making.

However, just because devolution in its current form has not worked for my constituency or my constituents, that does not mean that it cannot. The point is that, as we today debate new powers that might be going to the Scottish Parliament, it is high time that the current Administration in Holyrood looked at their record in managing the powers they already have and the effect that has wrought on the north-east.

This afternoon and this evening, we have heard a lot from the SNP about power grabs, a betrayal of the Scottish people, Scotland being dragged out of the EU against its will and how we are undermining the devolution settlements, when, of course, nothing could be further from the truth. We all know that concessions are going to be made on both sides of the Committee on this argument. We all know that the Scottish Parliament will have sweeping powers under common UK frameworks on a whole raft of areas.

I will support clause 11, and I will vote against the Opposition provisions. As my hon. Friend the Member for East Renfrewshire said earlier, amendments to clause 11 will be required: we do require a legislative consent motion if we want the other place to pass the Bill. I think that all sides appreciate that. That is why we expect movement on the issue this month at the JMC. However, this is a process. The Opposition amendments would undermine our United Kingdom and threaten our common market. That is why I cannot support them.

[Neil Gray]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in one of the most important constitutional debates impacting on Scotland since the re-establishment of the Scottish Parliament. The whole basis and foundation of how Scotland is governed is being discussed today. We should not underestimate how important that is; we cannot allow today to be politicked away or the issues to be kicked down the road. We must consider what is before us carefully and in a non-partisan way. Cross-party working has already started in the tabling of amendments, which have been drafted jointly by the Labour Welsh Government and the Scottish National party Government.

Anyone who understands politics in Scotland will appreciate that Labour and the SNP do not often agree on constitutional issues; that is not a flippant point, but a serious one, on which Ministers might reflect. I fully support amendments 72, 164, 165 and 183 to 188, in the names of my right hon. Friend the Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford), my hon. Friend the Member for North East Fife (Stephen Gethins) and the hon. Members for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) and for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty). They all aim to protect the devolved settlements of both Wales and Scotland. Indeed, just about every speaker this evening has expressed great concern about clause 11 as it stands, perhaps with the honourable exception of the hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Ross Thomson) —even the right hon. Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) highlighted that clause 11 impinges on the devolved settlements. That is where my concern lies with the so-called UK frameworks.

I understand that it would be sensible in some areas for there to be agreed principles across these isles—I think that of a future independent Scotland’s relationship with the rest of the UK, so why would I not think it now?—but for intra-national frameworks to be strong, effective and deliverable, they need to be agreed on the basis of mutual partnership, without a dominant and dictatorial director.

[Stephen Kerr]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Neil Gray]

To be fair, the hon. Gentleman has had a good say this evening.

I am not the only one concerned about the direction of travel that the UK Government appear to think we are taking. NFU Scotland has, as I am sure Ministers will be aware, a series of red lines regarding Brexit, many of which are pertinent to today’s debate. I will pick a few out: it wants a replacement for the common agricultural policy that will support the industry in the medium to long term; agriculture must continue to receive the same level and proportion of funding as it does now in the post-2022 landscape; and crucially for tonight, although the Treasury should finance the new policy on a UK-wide funding basis, NFU Scotland says that

“Any approach that adopts a ‘Defra-centric’, one-size-fits-all policy on to the devolved nations would not be acceptable.”

That is why it is crucial that powers in devolved areas are returned to the devolved nations, not held centrally. To do anything other than devolve and then seek to agree a framework agreement in devolved areas would undermine devolution. It would set a dangerous precedent if the UK Government set the terms of devolved policy and then left it to the devolved nations to fill in at the margins. That point was reiterated by Professor Michael Keating when he said the Tory plan would create a “hierarchical model of devolution” where

“the broad principles are set in London and the details filled in across the nations.”

That is not devolution, but executive management. It is anti-devolution, and would rip up the terms and principles of the Scotland Act 1998.

Brexit already poses potentially huge challenges for Scotland economically and constitutionally. Keeping the Bill as it stands in this area would not just be a hard Brexit—it would be a constitutionally regressive Brexit. At this stage, it is worth returning to NFU Scotland’s Brexit priorities: that Scottish and UK agricultural and food products must have frictionless access to existing and new export markets, and that the domestic market must not be exposed to cheaper imports that lack Scotland’s exemplary animal welfare and environmental standards. Continued access to a skilled and competent workforce, within both the farming and food processing sectors, must be secured as a priority. Continued, targeted farm support will be vital, not least through an unknown transition period. This support must be refocused on action-based measures to bring about improved productivity across sectors while delivering environmental benefits and safeguarding and enhancing product standards—the bedrock of a thriving farming, food and drink sector for the post-Brexit era.

I am not closed to the idea that there may be opportunities from Brexit should the UK Government listen and act in a way that is inclusive and bipartisan, but that has not happened to date, no matter what Ministers try to say. The Scottish Government’s compromise proposals have been dismissed and ignored, and that is why we are at today’s crucial juncture. [Interruption.] Conservative Members, some of whom represent farming constituencies, ought to listen to this. NFU Scotland shares the Scottish Government’s desire for continued membership of both the single market and the customs union. Perhaps now the UK Government will realise that they need to allow for tailored arrangements to allow varying national priorities across these isles to be reflected.

How topical it is that we should be discussing aspects of devolution relating to Brexit as we learn, this very day, of what the UK Government appear to be willing to concede in their negotiations with the EU regarding Northern Ireland. In essence, they are conceding that the compromise plan that was presented by the Scottish Government last year for a bespoke deal for Scotland in retaining single market and customs union membership—a plan dismissed as impossible—was on the table earlier for Northern Ireland and has now been discussed. There will be no hard border on the island of Ireland, in summation. It appears that the DUP has put the brakes on that—the irony is there for all to see. What a precedent that sets.

It is time that the UK Government acknowledged that Scotland, as well as Northern Ireland, has the right to expect a bespoke Brexit deal, and that there is nothing precluding a deal that protects Scotland’s interests, as we have been arguing all along. Clearly, for Scotland, that means the ability, for example, to have a different immigration system, and continued membership of the single market and the customs union. Sadly, though, that does not appear to be the path the UK Government are willing to follow, regardless of the consequences either for Scotland or for the future of the United Kingdom. Why not? I fully understand why Northern Ireland needs a bespoke deal. I have no issues with the UK Government pursuing that—in fact, I congratulate them on it—but why do Scotland’s needs matter less? To deny Scotland the same opportunity as Northern Ireland is being afforded would be ridiculous and indefensible. To take back powers from the EU that are clearly devolved competencies and have them sitting here at Westminster for some future divvying-up shows a lack of political or critical thinking, shows a lack of trust or respect towards the devolved nations, and is—quite frankly—lazy. To refuse to look at fresh areas of devolution like employment law to help Scotland deal with Brexit in the most flexible way is equally untrusting, disrespectful, and lazy.

The UK Government must understand the concerns that are being raised. They must not want to rip apart and fundamentally undermine the devolved settlement. Surely they must be willing to engage and accept amendments so as to make Brexit, if not politically palatable, at least reasonable for the devolved nations. I hope that all Members representing Scottish constituencies will support the amendments to be voted on later tonight.

[Stephen Kerr]

I will—[Interruption.] Yes, I am going to speak. I know that SNP Members will be very pleased about that. I will keep my remarks short because a number of people want to speak, but I want to respond to the idea that has been traded pretty commonly in the past couple of speeches about the imposition of a devolution settlement vis-à-vis the frameworks. The Scottish Affairs Committee report quotes the Secretary of State for Scotland, who said:

“A UK framework is not a framework that the UK Government imposes; it is a framework that is agreed across the United Kingdom.”

I believe that that is a definitive expression of the Government’s policy in relation to the nature of frameworks and how they will be achieved.

Every time we have a debate in this House in which devolved powers and Brexit are mentioned, the Scottish nationalists go crazy—[Interruption.] Yes, berserk; that is a good word. A number of contributors, including the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray), have spoken positively about how we can work together to create common ground and lift the issue from the trenches of political warfare in which, too often, the SNP wish to put it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Neil Gray Excerpts

Wednesday 5th July 2017 Commons Chamber

The Minister for the Cabinet Office was asked—

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

1. If he will hold discussions with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on bringing forward proposals to review public sector pay.

[The First Secretary of State and Minister for the Cabinet Office (Damian Green)]

Public sector pay policy has always been designed to strike the right balance between being fair to our public servants and fair to those who pay for them. The Government will continue to assess that balance.

[Neil Gray]

I thank the Minister for that answer, and I ask the House to note that my wife is a primary school teacher in Scotland. According to an academic report published this week by the UK Government, average public sector earnings have fallen in the last decade by 6%, or up to £3 per hour for some people. With that in mind, will the Minister advise us on whether he supports, and wishes this Government to follow, the lead that the Scottish Government have taken in ending the 1% cap for public sector workers? Or does he support what the former Prime Minister David Cameron said yesterday: that it is “selfish” to campaign for an end to the cap?

[Damian Green]

It is interesting that the hon. Gentleman brings up Scottish education, which is, as he knows, the responsibility of the Scottish Government. I point out that in England, where this Government have responsibility for education, there are 15,500 more teachers than there were in 2010. As he knows, the Government have asked independent public sector pay review bodies to recommend what should happen in their respective professions each year, and the House may be interested to know that the Government have accepted every recommendation made by a public sector pay review body since 2014.