Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con)]

May I join the tributes to you, Mr Speaker? I thank you for your comradeship in opposition, when you were a spokesman with me in various Departments, and for your encouragement in respect of the Animal Welfare (Service Animals) Act 2019—[Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] Thank you.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

Say, “Question 7.”

[Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con)]

7. What discussions she has had with Cabinet colleagues on the timeframe for the passage of the Animal Welfare (Sentencing) Bill.

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[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

The Woodland Trust, of which I am a keen member, believes that we can increase the amount of tree coverage by natural regeneration. That seems to be the best way of doing it, so how can we incentivise that within the new environmental land management scheme?

[Zac Goldsmith]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question, and he is absolutely right. Much of what we need to do to tackle climate change and restore nature involves rewilding or natural regeneration. A growing number of projects around the country are already delivering vast benefits. For example, at Knepp Castle in West Sussex, agri-environment funding has helped to create extensive grassland and scrub habitats, with huge benefits for declining bird species such as the turtle dove and the nightingale. As he says, the new environmental land management scheme will be transformative, because it will make subsidies conditional on the delivery of public goods such as biodiversity, woodland and flood management. It really could be the big thing that improves biodiversity in this country, which of course means increasing tree cover and encouraging natural regeneration.

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The right hon. Member for Meriden, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked—

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

7. What assessment has been made of the effect of the workload of the Archbishops of (a) Canterbury and (b) York on their ability to carry out their functions effectively; and if she will make a statement.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Dame Caroline Spelman)]

The Archbishops of York and Canterbury have many duties in relation to the northern and southern provinces of the Church of England, and the Archbishop of Canterbury is also the spiritual leader of the Anglican communion, a global network numbering tens of millions of members. There is no doubt in my mind that both these men are able and effective.

[Michael Fabricant]

But both these men are overworked. My right hon. Friend—indeed the whole House—will be aware that 1,200 years ago, Archbishop Hygeberht was the Archbishop of Lichfield. It seems to me that you, Mr Speaker, could have a future role in your retirement as the Archbishop of Lichfield—

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Canterbury!

[Michael Fabricant]

No, Lichfield. We want him in Lichfield and then the hard work done by the Archbishops of Canterbury and York could be shared. We have that precedent; we want you now.

[Dame Caroline Spelman]

Fortunately, I had a little advance notice of the tenor of my hon. Friend’s question. He is absolutely right that, for around 16 years between 787 and 803, there was an Archbishop of Lichfield. This arose from the fact that King Offa, in the kingdom of Mercia, struck a deal with the Pope, requesting an archbishop to be named to serve in his kingdom, but that deal involved sending an annual shipment of gold to the Pope for alms and supplying the lights for St Peter’s church in Rome. My hon. Friend, as the Member for Lichfield, might like to make a similar offer to the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Draft Waste and Environmental Protection (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd October 2019 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Rebecca Pow)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Waste and Environmental Protection (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

I am delighted to be serving under your auspices today, Mr Robertson. This statutory instrument, laid before the House on 15 July, is one of a number of statutory instruments with the purpose of ensuring the continued operability of our environmental law as the UK leaves the European Union. Like other such instruments, it does not make policy changes, and has no effect beyond making sure that current environmental protections continue to be effective.

The regulations extend and apply solely to Northern Ireland. They concern devolved areas of policy that would normally be dealt with by a devolved Administration at Stormont. In the absence of the Northern Ireland Assembly, it is necessary that we consider this instrument in this House. That is unfortunate, but if Parliament did not deal with these regulations it would not be possible to make them, which would leave inoperable and inconsistent provisions in Northern Ireland’s environmental legislation. While there is no Northern Ireland Executive at the moment, the Northern Ireland civil service continues to operate, and officials from the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in Northern Ireland are here today to help answer any questions that members of the Committee may have. They are very welcome.

The regulations are made under section 8 of, and schedule 7(21) to, the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. That Act retains EU-derived legislation in UK law. Section 8 of the Act enables regulations such as these to be made to address deficiencies in EU-derived legislation that arise from the UK leaving the European Union.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend confirm that this instrument will not mean any diminution in standards? Will she also say whether it prevents us from improving standards over and above those currently in place for the European Union as a whole?

[Rebecca Pow]

My hon. Friend is as astute as ever, and I thank him for his intervention. The instrument will not result in any lowering of environmental standards, but in those standards being maintained. He will be interested to hear that later, I will talk about something called “best available techniques”, which is a technical term; we are going to be putting in our own system for that. Hopefully, more information will be revealed as I go through my speech, but there will be no diminution of standards at all.

Similar legislative updates to those contained in these regulations were made for England and Wales on 3 July through the Environment and Rural Affairs (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, which amended the Waste (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 and the Waste (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2019. As with other regulations made under the withdrawal Act, these regulations have been drafted on the basis of leaving the EU without an agreement. It is, of course, the Government’s preference that there will be an agreed basis for leaving the EU. However, it is prudent to ensure that we preserve our environmental protections upon leaving the EU in all eventualities.

The draft Waste and Environmental Protection (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 correct operability amendments made by three other Northern Ireland European Union exit instruments, and amend one piece of Northern Ireland primary legislation. Part 2 of the instrument amends the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, and part 3 amends the three Northern Ireland EU exit SIs in order to correct some earlier operability changes made to primary and subordinate waste legislation in Northern Ireland. This is considered necessary to ensure that a consistent approach is taken to addressing operability issues in Northern Ireland waste legislation.

The particular operability issues all concern how article 16 of the waste framework directive will be applied in domestic law once the UK exits the European Union. To summarise, article 16 encourages member states to put in place infrastructure to deal with their own waste. The amendments ensure that that stipulation is appropriately reflected in domestic law. They do so by requiring the United Kingdom to move towards the aim of becoming self-sufficient in waste disposal and recovery.

The amendments also ensure that the relevant domestic legislation in Northern Ireland no longer refers to “best available techniques” where that could be interpreted by reference to EU definitions and processes, which will no longer be valid when we are no longer EU members.

The amendments are technical in nature and, as I have said, do not alter policy. Crucially, there is no reduction in the environmental standards or obligations to which Northern Ireland is currently subject.

I want to acknowledge at this point, Mr Chairman, that the issue of environmental standards has been contested during consideration of the instrument by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. In reporting its consideration, the Committee published comments by Green Alliance to the effect that the removal of references to “best available techniques” in Northern Ireland legislation could lower environmental standards. That is absolutely not the case.

[Michael Fabricant]

Good.

[Rebecca Pow]

The UK has committed to maintaining environmental standards and to ensuring that the current best available technique conclusion implementing decisions, which set out the relevant requirements and emission limit levels for installations—just in case anyone was wondering what these best available techniques were, they refer to the emission limit levels for installations—will continue to have effect in UK law after the UK’s exit from the European Union.

Best available techniques for waste treatment have been set out and issued under Commission implementing decision (EU) 2018/1147, in accordance with the industrial emissions directive. That decision, as amended, has been adopted as part of retained EU law and, therefore, the conclusions set out within it will continue to apply post the UK’s exit from the European Union.

The Government have committed to put in place a process for determining future UK best available technique conclusions for industrial emissions post the UK’s exit from the European Union. That is being developed with the devolved Administrations and competent authorities across the UK. Legislative changes may be required to reflect the agreed process in due course. I hope that assures my hon. Friend the Member for Lichfield that this is all under way, and that standards will indeed be addressed and upheld.

The corrections and amendments to remove the requirement to take best available techniques into account in the context of article 16.1 of the waste framework directive ensure that the relevant domestic legislation and retained EU law do not commit the United Kingdom to comply with future amendments to best available technique arrangements and emission limits that may be produced by the European Commission. That is, of course, the crux of the matter.

Just to clarify, as it is a tad complex: amendments have been made through UK legislation either to remove or update references in respect of best available techniques, in order to ensure the operability of the relevant provisions, as the process of establishing and agreeing best available techniques is driven by the European Commission under the industrial emissions directive. Once the UK exits the European Union, it will no longer be a member state and will, therefore, no longer be part of the process of developing and agreeing future EU best available technique requirements. Rather, the UK will take its own approach to the development of future best available technique requirements to be met by UK industry. That could also take into consideration developments that are ongoing in the EU.

In respect of the amendment to the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, the reference to best available techniques in schedule 3, which was directly copied from article 16 of the waste framework directive, has been omitted because the term is not defined or used elsewhere in the order. Furthermore, there is already a requirement to take best available techniques into account in the context of establishing an adequate network of waste disposal installations and installations for the recovery of mixed municipal waste from households in another piece of Northern Ireland legislation, the Waste Management Licensing Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2003, which has been updated to ensure operability post the UK’s exit from the European Union.

In conclusion, for the purposes of addressing the instrument before us, if we did not address those deficiencies, the result could be legal uncertainty and ambiguity around the meaning of Northern Ireland’s environmental laws. This instrument ensures legal certainty in Northern Ireland as we approach our exit from the EU and ensures that we maintain environmental standards and protections across the UK. I commend it to the Committee.

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[Rebecca Pow]

I thank the shadow Minister for his very clear points about how there have been a great many amendments. I am sure none of us wants to see any muddling of amendments, because these are really serious bits of legislation that affect business in a fundamental way. However, we can take heart that the technicality was spotted and we have made the changes, which shows that our scrutiny systems work. We have a Scrutiny Committee in the House of Lords and a similar one in the Commons. This legislation has been passed by them with a microscope and they are now happy with the changes that we have made. I hope that that sets the hon. Gentleman’s mind at rest.

It is important that some areas have been identified during the laying of this legislation. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the volume of legislation that has progressed over the past 12 to 18 months—and the timescales involved in producing it—has been on an unprecedented scale. Every effort has been made to ensure that the legislation that comes before Parliament does not contain errors, and processes are in place, as I said, with the Scrutiny Committees and so on to correct them, because it is important that they are corrected. Although they might sound confusing to the ordinary person out there on the street, to those for whom the regulations apply they are absolutely crucial.

We had a reference to the best available techniques being removed from the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997. I thought I had made it clear in my speech why that had changed. In respect of the amendment to that order, the reference to the best available techniques was directly copied from article 16 of the waste framework directive, and it has been omitted because the term is not defined or used elsewhere in the order. It is an absolute technicality. Furthermore, there is already a requirement to take the best available techniques into account in the context of establishing an adequate network of waste disposal installations and installations for the recovery of mixed municipal waste from households in another piece of Northern Ireland legislation, the Waste Management Licensing Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2003. Those regulations have been amended by previous EU exit instruments—the Environment (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2018 and the Environmental Protection (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019—to ensure operability post the UK’s exit from the European Union, so I hope I have cleared that up.

The shadow Minister also mentioned standards and the change in respect of the reference to moving towards the aim of becoming self-sufficient in waste disposal and the recovery of waste, which are consistent with the current requirement on member states, again in article 16 of the waste framework direction in EU legislation. The corrections that these amendments make maintain the current ambition and objectives relating to becoming self-sufficient in waste disposal and the recovery of waste. That is the wording used in the EU directive. The previous amendments were not consistent with the current approach. I hope that clears up those points; it is slightly complicated.

[Michael Fabricant]

Very logical.

[Rebecca Pow]

I thank everyone on the Committee, particularly our colleagues from Northern Ireland, for their help and input. Just in case hon. Members have any queries, I assure them that these regulations will have no effect on other things connected with Northern Ireland, such as the peace process, the Good Friday agreement and border security. These regulations make corrections and minor technical amendments to address shortcomings in the retained EU environmental law in Northern Ireland arising from the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union. As my hon. Friend the Member for Lichfield said, it is to everyone’s benefit to maintain the integrity of environmental protection rules here and—particularly in relation to these regulations—in Northern Ireland. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2019 Commons Chamber

The right hon. Member for Meriden, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked—

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

7. What recent assessment the Church of England has made of the effect of holding festivals in cathedrals on the number of visiting (a) worshippers and (b) non-worshippers.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Dame Caroline Spelman)]

Cathedrals all run a series of events and religious festivals throughout the year, which vary in size, and collectively they host over 11 million visitors a year. Lichfield cathedral, in my hon. Friend’s constituency, is an outstanding example of that and welcomes around 120,000 people a year to its excellent exhibitions.

[Michael Fabricant]

I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for her answer. She will know that the Lichfield festival attracts over 50,000 people to the city of Lichfield and brings at least 10,000 people into the cathedral itself, so what action is her Department taking to encourage other cathedrals to do similar initiatives?

[Dame Caroline Spelman]

I find it an interesting idea that I have a Department, but the Church of England will seize the initiative next year; it is a great year for anniversaries in the Church of England, with the Pilgrim Fathers and Thomas à Becket, and it will be a year of cathedrals. The Association of English Cathedrals will provide a pilgrimage passport for those at home and abroad who want to visit as many cathedrals as possible.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 20th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[David Rutley]

The hon. Lady has ruined a perfectly reasonable question by exaggerating. Of course we are preparing for every eventuality. As we have said already in these questions, a deal is the best outcome, and we all have a responsibility to help deliver that. We are preparing for all outcomes.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

So will my hon. Friend confirm that my constituents do not need to stock up with tins of Spam or apricots in syrup?

[David Rutley]

We are not going to endorse any particular brand, but it is important to note that we have a rich and diverse source of food, and that will continue when we leave the EU.

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The right hon. Member for Meriden, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked—

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

4. What estimate the Church of England has made of the contribution that cathedrals make to the local economy; and if she will make a statement.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Dame Caroline Spelman)]

It is estimated that in 2017 there were more than 10 million tourist and leisure visitors to our cathedrals, including Westminster Abbey, generating some £125 million for their local economies. That is a 37% increase from 2004, the last time that that was measured.

[Michael Fabricant]

That is encouraging news; I know how Lichfield Cathedral benefits the local community.

Mr Speaker, you may be interested to learn that next year will be the 900th anniversary of the birth of Thomas à Becket and the 400th anniversary of the establishment of the American colony of the Pilgrim Fathers. To mark that, I believe there will be an initiative: the year of the cathedrals. Will my right hon. Friend say a little more about how that will stimulate local economies?

[Dame Caroline Spelman]

We had a meeting of the deans of cathedrals in Parliament this week, and the Dean of Lichfield, who is a fantastic champion for that cathedral, came up with an interesting proposal, through the Association of English Cathedrals, to introduce a pilgrimage passport. That would encourage people—not just from this country, but from abroad—to visit more of our cathedrals, obtaining a stamp at every one, and would indeed assist the overall economy.

Foie Gras Imports

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Wednesday 13th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Henry Smith]

The hon. Gentleman is right. Awareness is important on such issues, and it is one of the reasons behind this evening’s debate and behind the efforts to ensure that people are perhaps not disgusted, but definitely better informed about foie gras production.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

Is it not an irony that “faux gras” is available? Many chefs say that it tastes exactly the same as foie gras, yet the animals are brought up humanely and killed humanely. There really is no excuse for the import of foie gras.

[Henry Smith]

My hon. Friend is right. Many alternatives to products that are produced cruelly, such as fur, are coming on stream all the time.

I welcome the Government undertaking significant reforms in the field of animal welfare. Taking pride in our natural surroundings, enhancing the environment and ensuring suitable conditions for animals are things in which we all have an interest. I welcome the action being taken by the Minister and his departmental colleagues, particularly the Secretary of State, as well as the leadership shown on the global stage by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister. An example of that is the ban on ivory sales, which was announced to help protect elephants, of which approximately 20,000 are slaughtered each year. Indeed, I have the honour of sitting on the Ivory Bill Committee this week and next.

The Government recently undertook a public consultation on banning live animal exports after we have left the European Union. While the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is currently considering the responses, I hope that the Minister will ensure that both his and the Secretary of State’s determination to ensure that animal protections are enhanced on Brexit will be reflected in policy developments. The draft Animal Welfare (Sentencing and Recognition of Sentience) Bill sets out that the Government

“must have regard to the welfare needs of animals as sentient beings in formulating and implementing government policy.”

That reiterates that animals are sentient beings that feel pain and suffering, and I welcome the fact that that principle will be written into UK law. Perhaps the Minister will update the House about when that legislation may come before us.

On CCTV in slaughterhouses, colleagues on both sides of the House will welcome the Government’s work to make such equipment mandatory in England following the uncovering of how some animals have been mistreated in abattoirs before slaughter. In February 2015, I led an Adjournment debate in the Chamber calling on the Government to take action, and I now urge Ministers to replicate the zeal with which they acted on that to ensure measures are taken in a timely manner to end foie gras imports to this nation, which I believe is still a nation of animal lovers.

I am grateful to the many organisations and institutions that have banned the sale of foie gras. The UK Parliament, the BAFTAs, the BRIT awards, the Wimbledon tennis championships—I am sure that will please Mr Speaker— and Lord’s cricket ground have all stopped selling foie gras, as have caterers such as Compass Group and Brakes and retailers including Selfridges and Harvey Nichols here in London. Hotels, restaurants and many chefs across the country continue to take a stand. Indeed, His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales has banned foie gras from the menus at royal events.

We know the treatment of animals with methods such as those used to produce foie gras is wrong. The methods were outlawed, as we have been discussing, almost two decades ago in this country, but by permitting imports of this product we are still helping the trade in this cruel practice to continue, even though we may not wish it to.

When securing our animal welfare protections for after we leave the EU, I hope that the Minister will take into account the points that have been raised by many hon. Members this evening. In the months and years ahead, as Brexit takes effect, we will have the ability to introduce a ban on imports of foie gras, which will sit alongside the decision this country took to ban its production domestically. I welcome the Government’s continued work to protect and enhance animal welfare standards, and I urge the introduction of a ban.

Foie gras is cruel to produce, unhealthy to eat and expensive to purchase. The ultimate cost, though, is paid by the ducks and geese that suffer so greatly before their slaughter. It is time we banned this outdated practice.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 7th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State recently met the chief medical officer to talk about the important issue of antibiotics use. We also have the O’Neill report, which set key targets for the UK to reduce its use of antibiotics, and the UK has campaigned globally through various international forums to reduce the use of antibiotics in agriculture.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

Would my hon. Friend be surprised to learn that farmers in my constituency, while hoping that there will be a trade deal with the European Union, say that Brexit will provide a marvellous opportunity regardless of whether there is any such deal? In particular, specialist food manufacturers such as cheese manufacturers feel that if we can do free trade deals with countries such as the United States and Canada, that will increase their sales.

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. This is an opportunity for us to have a very different approach to agriculture policy and to support producers in this country as we look to the future. It is worth noting that analysis commissioned by the National Farmers Union shows that, even without a trade deal with the EU, most sectors in farming would see a slight firming in farm gate prices.

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[Dame Caroline Spelman]

First, through my hon. Friend, I would like to congratulate the Right Rev. Susan Brown on her appointment. This is now an increasingly strong trend. The Queen has just named the Very Rev. Vivienne Faull as the next Bishop of Bristol, which brings us to a total of 15 female bishops in the Church of England. The ministry department within the Church is also conscious of the need to diversify and encourage more applicants from black and minority ethnic backgrounds. It has set up a mentoring scheme, and if any hon. Members would like to be mentors for applicants from those communities, they would be very welcome.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

4. To ask the right hon. Member for Meriden, representing the Church Commissioners, what steps the Church of England and Anglican communion are taking to promote a more tolerant attitude towards members of the LGBTQ community; and if she will make a statement.

[Dame Caroline Spelman]

It so happens that my hon. Friend’s constituency lies in the diocese of Lichfield, which has just issued new guidelines that call for a Church where LGBTQ people feel welcomed and honoured. That letter was sent to all clergy and lay ministers in the diocese, which has 600 churches and covers a population of 2 million people.

[Michael Fabricant]

My right hon. Friend will understand that the whole question of gay marriage has not exactly endeared the Church of England to gay people. Nevertheless, I am encouraged by what she says. Perhaps she could expand a little more on what is happening in the Lichfield constituency, which extends all the way to the border with Wales.

[Dame Caroline Spelman]

All four Bishops in that diocese—the Bishops of Lichfield, Wolverhampton, Stafford and Shrewsbury—are signatories to that initiative, which gives practical expression to what the Archbishop of Canterbury was referring to when he talked about radical Christian inclusion.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 26th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Tom Brake]

I am aware that electronic voting takes place in the Scottish Parliament, and my personal view is that it is a more effective way of dealing with votes. Members who have not been here as long as I have may not remember that back in 1997 there was an attempt to reform a number of ways in which the House operated. I supported it, but it was blocked by the House.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

But is it not the case that there are advantages in going into the Lobby—one can meet colleagues and do things? If we listen to the Scottish National party all together, why do we not go the whole hog? Why do we not just sit at home, watch proceedings on the Parliament channel, and vote on our iPhones?

[Tom Brake]

I did not hear in any of the earlier contributions any suggestion that we should stay at home to do our voting, and I am sure that the SNP representatives here today would not favour that approach either.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Fabricant Excerpts

Thursday 20th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Bridget Phillipson]

The commission is aware of media reports that allege that there could have been Russian involvement in the EU referendum. These cover a wide range of alleged activities that are beyond the commission’s remit. Any allegation with evidence that a registered campaigner accepted impermissible donations from Russia would be investigated in line with the commission’s enforcement policy, but I am sure that officials from the commission would be more than happy to meet my right hon. Friend to discuss this matter further.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend—and she is a friend—agree that not only is illegal funding wrong, but so is electoral fraud? May I invite her to ask the commission to conduct a proper inquiry into having a national voter register, to ensure that people do not double and triple vote in general elections and other elections?

[Bridget Phillipson]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. He will know that the 381 electoral registers are maintained by different electoral registration offices across the country, and it is not currently possible to interrogate them collectively in order to identify duplicate entries or voting in more than one area. The commission will be happy to work with the Government to consider potential solutions to reduce this risk.

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[Dame Caroline Spelman]

As I said, the Church has set itself a target—that is the important thing—of doubling the number of people entering training by 2020, and it is making progress by increasing the numbers coming into training.

It is perhaps worth noting that the Church has changed the ways in which people can train for the priesthood. They can train by residential course, as is traditional, but they can also train on the job and through peripatetic learning, which makes it generally easier for a much wider range of people to train for the priesthood, if they feel called to do so.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Oh, very well.

[Michael Fabricant]

On the subject of training, does my right hon. Friend not also think that training in human resources and personnel is important? She will know that the Dean of Peterborough, Charles Taylor, was sacked from that cathedral and given only 24 hours’ notice to leave the deanery. Does she think that that was not only unprofessional on the part of the chapter, but very unchristian?

[Dame Caroline Spelman]

Obviously, I have sympathy with anyone who loses their job, but with the greatest respect, those facts are not quite correct. On 2 October 2016, the dean announced his retirement, and he did not leave the deanery, and was not asked to leave it, until the following February, giving him six months’ residence—

[Michael Fabricant]

No, he was not. That is wrong.

[Dame Caroline Spelman]

Those are the facts I have been given.

I think we should try to leave this term on a happier note, so I conclude by wishing all colleagues a very welcome recess.