Business of the House (Thursday)

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Wednesday 8th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)]

I beg to move,

That, at the sitting on Thursday 9 December, the Speaker shall put the Questions necessary to dispose of proceedings on the Motion in the name of Secretary Vince Cable relating to Higher Education Higher Amount and, notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order No. 16 (Proceedings under an Act or on European Union documents), on the Motion in the name of Secretary Vince Cable on the draft Higher Education (Basic Amount) (England) Regulations not later than five hours after the commencement of proceedings on the first motion, or at 5.30 pm, whichever is the earlier; such Questions shall include the Questions on any Amendments selected by the Speaker which may then be moved; proceedings may continue after the moment of interruption; and Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) shall not apply.

The motion is sharply focused on the timing of tomorrow’s debate. It allows for the motions in the name of the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills relating to higher education to be debated together and for the Questions to be put after five hours or at 5.30 pm, whichever is earlier.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir George Young]

No, not at this stage. I will give way in a moment.

I expect to answer the business question tomorrow, but the Government have no plans for any other oral statements. We therefore expect the House to have a full day to debate and vote on the issues.

[Chris Bryant]

I tried to intervene at the precise moment when the Leader of the House referred to the precise words that I have trouble with: “whichever is the earlier”. Why could it not be, “whichever is the later”?

[Sir George Young]

If the hon. Gentleman had wanted, he could have tabled an amendment to the motion and we could have debated it. No such amendment was tabled by any Opposition Member and I therefore assume that they are entirely content to stop at 5.30 pm.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

rose—

[Sir George Young]

I want to make a bit of progress and then I will give way.

When I announced the business for tomorrow at business questions last Thursday, no Member on the Opposition Benches raised objections to the timing or the process of the motions. The process that we are using for the debate tomorrow is set out in section 26 of the Higher Education Act 2004, under which the regulations are to be made. The Opposition will be familiar with that process, given that it is their Act that allows us to make these changes by secondary legislation.

[Kevin Brennan]

I am grateful to the Leader of the House for giving way. Why in the motion did he choose the time of 5.30 pm? It is clear that the House’s intention is that the point of interruption on a Thursday should be 6 pm. Why is it 5.30 and not 6 pm?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir George Young]

No representations were made through the usual channels for an extension beyond 5.30. After 5.30, I anticipate that there will be votes, which will take us to 6 o’clock, when the House usually rises.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

rose—

[Sir George Young]

I will make a bit more progress.

Our original business plan provided for a maximum of four and a half hours’ debate.

[Mr Hanson]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir George Young]

In a moment. The motion allows for the House to consider the statutory instrument and the resolution in a single debate, which removes the need for two sets of Front-Bench speeches and allows for more Back-Bench contributions.

[Mr Hanson]

The right hon. Gentleman will be aware that in Wales, where my constituency is, there is a policy not to treble tuition fees. Does he think that five hours is sufficient time for more than 500 Members from English seats to look longingly at my country?

[Sir George Young]

We had an Opposition day debate on the subject, when the right hon. Gentleman had an opportunity to debate the matter at some length. We are using the procedures set out in the legislation introduced by the Labour Government. We are following those procedures to the letter and allowing more time for the debate than was originally planned.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Sir George Young]

I am going to make a bit more progress.

[Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir George Young]

No, I am going to make a bit more progress.

[Paul Farrelly]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It is simply not the case that no concerns have been raised about this procedure. I raised them in a point of order last week, if you remember, and they have been highlighted by the hon. Member for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) in an early-day motion. How can the House correct the record?

[Mr Speaker]

May I say to the hon. Gentleman, first, that as far as he is concerned, he has just done so. Secondly, I do indeed recall his point of order, which was in fact on Monday night. I would have serious problems with my short-term memory if I did not recall it, but I do.

[Sir George Young]

For the convenience of the House, the Divisions will be taken together at the end of the debate, as specified in the motion. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills has set out previously, it is right that we bring forward the motions now, to give prospective students and universities certainty before the 2012-13 application round starts.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

It has been reported in the press that Thursday was selected as the day for debating the motions because of the hope that Scottish and Northern Irish MPs might not be present. Is there any truth in that? The Leader of the House can take great comfort from the fact that we will be here, and we will be voting against the motions.

[Sir George Young]

I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman will be here. I announced last Thursday that the debate would take place tomorrow, and no one objected once during business questions to the day that we chose for the debate.

A slower process would have been not only unfair to prospective students and their families but irresponsible, because of the need to tackle the fiscal crisis that the previous Government left behind. My intention in bringing forward this evening’s motion was to allow adequate time for tomorrow’s important debate. I hope that hon. Members in all parts of the House will support that intention, and I commend the motion to the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Hilary Benn]

It seems to me that my hon. Friend makes a powerful case. I would gladly give way to the Leader of the House for an explanation. He did not explain in his speech why so little time has been allocated, so perhaps he would like to explain that now. No, he is not inclined to take that—[Interruption.] Oh, well.

[Sir George Young]

If the amount of time allocated for this debate is insufficient, why did the right hon. Gentleman not draw the House’s attention to it last Thursday? When I announced today’s debate on exactly these regulations, he said nothing at all.

[Hilary Benn]

It has been very clear for a long time that Labour Members want adequate time to debate this. The way to deal with it is to consider the proposal before us; we will vote against it tonight because inadequate time has been allotted.