European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard continued) & Committee stage & Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard continued): House of Lords
Thursday 16th January 2020 Lords Chamber

Therefore, I implore the Minister and through him the Government to please think again about cutting our ties with Erasmus+, especially right now when so much else is still up for negotiation over the next year. Let us at least hold on to what we know we already have access to, which provides excellent value for money and sends an important message to our young people that we have their future opportunities front of mind. Other non-EU countries which subscribe as full participants in Erasmus+ are Iceland, Liechtenstein, North Macedonia, Norway, Serbia and Turkey. I hope the UK will also be one of these after the end of 2020. I honestly believe that this would be the most straightforward, non-controversial, popular tweak to this Bill that the Government could adopt, whether in its current wording or perhaps in the Government’s own name on Report. As long as such an amendment provided for a solid commitment to continued membership of Erasmus+ and eliminated uncertainty, with absolute clarity on the future, I am sure it would be welcomed and appreciated across all sections of society.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Storey, for missing the first half minute of his speech in rushing into the Chamber for this debate. I am delighted to support the amendment, which is one of the most important that we have before us. I welcome the speech of the noble Baroness, which brought in the whole dimension of multilingualism and our responsibilities towards the wider world, to show that our minds are open in that way.

A good friend of many of ours in Brussels, Hywel Ceri Jones, was one of the instigators of the original Erasmus programme, which, as has been mentioned, has been developed so that it now reaches and is relevant to far more people. It can therefore exert its influence in a much more beneficial way.

Over the period since the referendum, the Government have stressed that we are—sadly—leaving the European Union but not Europe. Having the Erasmus+ programme available sends a signal that we still want our young people to engage with Europe. That is a two-way process: equally, we want to see the Erasmus+ programme enabling young people from European countries to come to the countries of the United Kingdom. This is a very modest amendment, but it sends a very strong signal and I urge the Government to accept it or at least to come back with some statement or amendment of their own that shows that Erasmus+ will certainly be part of our future.

[Baroness Blower (Lab)]

My Lords, I was going to make exactly the same point as the noble Lord, Lord Wigley: we are indeed leaving the EU—much to my regret—but not leaving Europe. As a former teacher of modern foreign languages, I am very well aware of the great benefit that students derive from speaking the target language in situ in the country, rather than in the classroom or—heaven forfend—a language laboratory. Speaking a language in the country where it is spoken necessarily involves all those aspects of culture that are so much more difficult to bring into the classroom, where they will sometimes appear slightly artificial. Even though all the points have already been made eloquently by the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, I wish to associate myself, as a former teacher, with all those remarks.

As I said in my maiden speech, I work extensively with teacher organisations across Europe, not in just the 27 countries that will remain in the EU but also in the other countries mentioned that subscribe to Erasmus+. My colleagues across Europe wonder what is going on in Britain and why we are leaving, but they are also at great pains to say that they are very keen to continue to work with British teachers, and to ensure, in so far as they can—although it is not in their purview—that we remain closely engaged with the Erasmus+ programme.

The budget is, as the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, said, an enormous amount of money and a huge increase. It would simply be folly for the Government not to remain in this programme to access all those opportunities—at school level, at university level, with apprentices and, indeed, to assist the recruitment of teachers of modern foreign languages, as the noble Baroness said. I know more teachers of modern foreign languages who are no longer in the classroom than I do who are actually teaching. It is a very big problem and I hope the Government will listen to all the wonderful speeches that have been made today, make the very slight amendment to the Bill and determine that we will remain full participants in the Erasmus+ programme.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Wigley]

41: After Clause 37, insert the following new Clause—
“Economic impact assessment
(1) A Minister of the Crown must—(a) lay before each House of Parliament, and(b) submit to the Presiding Officer of each devolved legislature,a comprehensive economic impact assessment of potential outcomes arising from the conclusion of negotiations on the future relationship with the EU.(2) An assessment under subsection (1) must include—(a) an analysis by NUTS1 and NUTS2 regions of the United Kingdom including (but not limited to)—(i) impact on employment as both an actual figure and a percentage, and(ii) impact on Gross Value Added; (b) a sectoral analysis including but not limited to agriculture, health and social care, manufacturing, the aerospace industry and financial services.”Member’s explanatory statement
This new Clause would require the Government to produce an economic impact assessment on the future relationship with the European Union.

[Lord Wigley]

My Lords, the objective of Amendment 41 is to require the Minister to present, both to Parliament and to the devolved legislatures, an economic impact assessment of the potential outcomes of negotiations so that we may know where we are heading.

First, over the past three years, numerous prophecies have been made as to the economic implications of Brexit, most of which were based on guess-work at the time as to what would be the outcome. All those guesstimates are now largely irrelevant. We now know three basic dimensions of our way forward. We know that we shall be leaving at the end of this month and that the implementation period will last until next December.

Secondly, the Government, presumably, know exactly what they want in any agreement reached with the European Union. They therefore will have made their own assessment of the economic impact if they get their way. The House and the devolved Governments have a right to know the detail of any such assessment, as well as a right to know the implications for each of our four nations and for the standard regions—in the amendment this is covered by virtue of a reference to the NUTS areas.

Thirdly, the Government have made it clear that, if they fail to reach and to achieve their negotiating objectives, they will choose to leave without a deal. Again, they have presumably estimated the effect of any such course of action. The implication could be disastrous for manufacturing, exporters, hill farmers and many others. However, surely the Government have, at the very least, a duty to make known the detail of any such estimates. Anyone in the world of trade, agriculture, manufacturing, industry or finance will clearly want to know, at the earliest time possible, what are the official forecasts for these implications, for the basic reason that they are quite fundamental to making any future investment decisions.

If the Government have their own estimates, they are surely duty-bound to share them, and if they do not, they should step back from negotiating a trade deal until they have the basic tools needed to make such a major and far-reaching decision, and to have those tools and the information on a logical and quantified basis. I beg to move.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

My Lords, perhaps it is a symptom of the way that Brexit has been handled that the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, even needs to table this amendment; we would have hoped that all this work had been done, published and debated well before any decisions were made. Indeed, I think reference was made yesterday to the Room 101 experience we had when we were called to be shown in secret the so-called sector-by-sector analyses of the impact of the withdrawal. They were of course no such thing—they were A-level descriptions which could have been got from published documents. Now we find that the Government want to head into negotiations on the future of the UK and its constituent parts with no prior appraisal of the impact of a range of outcomes, either on sectors or on geographical areas, and importantly, with no debate with either the industries concerned or with elected representatives of the geographical areas. Yet as we heard in the debate yesterday, important trade-offs and difficult judgments are going to have to be made as we struggle to find a workable trade relationship with the EU.

This should not be done in the dark. We should have full knowledge of the likely impact of each possible approach. The Government should have done this work, but I have little confidence that they have, which is why the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, is so relevant.

[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, for introducing his amendment which, as he made clear, relates to the future economic relationship between the UK and the EU. Our agreement with the EU in the political declaration was expressed in the following words:

“to develop an ambitious, wide-ranging and balanced economic partnership. This partnership will be comprehensive, encompassing a Free Trade Agreement, as well as wider sectoral cooperation where it is in the mutual interest of both Parties.”

We look forward to working with our partners in the EU to negotiate this free trade agreement in the year to come. But on that, there is a basic point to be made. It would be neither possible nor appropriate to publish a detailed analysis of the specifics of an agreement that is yet to be negotiated. Indeed, publishing such a detailed report, as the noble Lord’s amendment would require, would completely undermine the UK’s negotiating position heading into the next stage.

There is a way to address the noble Lord’s concern that does not land us in that kind of trap. In November 2018, the Government published a detailed analysis that covered a broad range of possible EU exit scenarios. This report ran to over 80 pages and was designed to provide an understanding of how changes to our relationship with the EU might affect the United Kingdom’s economy in the long run. This is available for all to see.

In exactly the same vein, let me reassure the noble Lord that the Government remain committed to informing Parliament with the best analysis to support parliamentary scrutiny. We will do so at an appropriate time that does not impede our ability to strike the best deal for the UK. As I emphasised in our debates yesterday, we have also been clear that we will engage with the devolved Administrations and draw on their knowledge and expertise to secure an agreement that works for the whole of the UK.

I hope therefore that the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, will feel able to withdraw his amendment. I can assure him that the Government will continue to update the House with analysis at appropriate points.

[Lord Wigley]

Could the noble Earl clarify why, if it was possible to publish in 2018 the figures to which he has referred, it is not possible to do so now?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the intention behind those scenarios was to cover a broad spectrum of circumstances which we could find ourselves in. They were not designed to posit our desired end-point; they were designed as a guide to the citizen to illustrate what could happen, given certain variables. I do not think that it is possible or advisable for us to go beyond that at this stage.

[Lord Wigley]

I am sorry to labour the point, but could he therefore say whether the figures of 2018 are still valid?

[Earl Howe]

They are still valid as hypothetical figures and as illustrative of certain scenarios if certain arrangements were agreed. I think that Ministers would stand by the figures in so far as they are designed to illustrate those scenarios.

[Lord Wigley]

My Lords, I do not think I will succeed in taking this matter very much further this afternoon, but the House will have seen the position that we are in: some figures were available in 2018 that may or may not be relevant now, and we do not know the direction we are going in to know whether they are relevant. It seems a very strange way of entering negotiations—I only hope that the outcome will be better than the prophecy on that basis. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 41 withdrawn.

European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard continued) & Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard continued): House of Lords
Wednesday 15th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Trenchard]

As far as I understood, the noble Lord said that the European Parliament had much more say in dictating the mandate, but perhaps I misunderstood him. In any case, it appears that during the last three years the UK Parliament has been exercising power to control the Executive, and the Executive have not been seen by their interlocuters on the European side as having the right to negotiate, because all the time noble Lords opposite, and others, were saying to individuals in Brussels, “Don’t worry, Parliament isn’t going to allow the negotiating team to do this. We will reverse it.” Now the people have spoken and the House of Commons has a strong majority of 80 Conservative MPs, all committed to a real Brexit. That is known. This amendment is designed to obstruct because the House of Commons will not accept it, and noble Lords know this well.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I very much agree with the points made a moment ago by the noble Lord, Lord Liddle. In Wales during the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, we were fortunate enough to attract more than 200 American companies and more than 50 Japanese companies to invest in Wales, largely through the work of the Welsh Development Agency. They came to Wales in order to sell to the European market: there is no question about that, and therefore these questions are of mainstream importance to the National Assembly for Wales. That is why Amendment 40, standing in my name, covers the matters involved in Amendment 27 and brings into the loop a role for the National Assembly for Wales, the Scottish Parliament and the Northern Ireland Assembly. I concur very much with the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, in opening this debate.

Amendment 27 provides, in subsection (4) of the proposed section entitled, “Negotiations for future relationship,” that:

“A Minister of the Crown may not engage in negotiations on the future relationship with the EU unless … a statement on objectives for the future relationship with the EU has been approved by the House of Commons.”


My Amendment 40 extends the same principle to the National Assembly for Wales, the Scottish Parliament and the Northern Ireland Assembly.

The lead Amendment 27 does indeed bring in the three devolved legislatures, to the extent that it provides that copies of the proposed progress reports should be provided for each devolved legislature, and to the relevant Ministers of those three nations. The general arguments in favour of my amendment are similar to those for Amendment 27, so I will not repeat them. I support everything stated by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter. However, I will again press that the devolved legislatures should be fully in the loop and that their approval should be obtained. They have as valid a right to be in the picture as Members of the European Parliament; it impacts directly on their work.

I realise that the Government may withstand the whole concept of getting prior parliamentary approval for their negotiating position with regard, say, to trade in sheepmeat, but they contend that the Government can negotiate exactly what they like, and they have it in their power to do so. In reaching their negotiating position and their proposals, they will no doubt have discussed their strategic objectives with their ministerial colleagues in charge of sheepmeat issues in England. It would be amazing if they were not to do so; indeed, it would be a chronic dereliction of duty. But, unless a provision along the lines of Amendment 40 is brought into play, the government team in charge of negotiating with the EU on the future sheepmeat trade will be totally ignorant of the views of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. These need to be systematically built in.

European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

Lord Wigley Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 2nd reading (Hansard)
Monday 13th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I salute the stalwart work undertaken by the noble Lord, Lord Dubs: more power to his elbow. I add my congratulations on the two memorable maiden speeches we heard earlier.

I am less than happy to be speaking on this Bill. I wish that the whole wretched Brexit business had never arisen—but we are where we are. We cannot ignore public opinion, but whether this Bill reflects that opinion is quite another matter. That is something we should test, to the limited extent possible in the allocated timeframe, as we determine whether the Bill delivers what we want, or even what the Government themselves want.

The general election was a learning experience. I was out canvassing in Wales on 26 occasions, talking with and listening to voters. It taught me many lessons, one of which is this. While a majority in my home county of Gwynedd voted to remain, a significant number of remain voters felt that the outcome of the referendum had to be respected. So I accept, regrettably, that Brexit is going to happen. What I do not accept is that the electorate, while endorsing Brexit in general terms, have given their backing to all the specific proposals in this Bill, because they still do not know what the outcome of negotiations will be. We may possibly know the outcome by December—perhaps. At that stage, the people will either accept it, or there will be an unholy outcry that it is not the Brexit they were told they would get. That outcry may well come from disillusioned leavers as much as from remainers.

So the Government are on borrowed time. I do not deny that they have a mandate to “get Brexit done”, but aspects of this Bill are open to scrutiny from two perspectives: first, from a UK viewpoint, particularly around the impact of a possible no-deal Brexit on manufacturing exports, trade between Britain and Ireland, and on the working of the courts. Secondly, and of most concern to me, this Bill gives the UK Government power to amend the Government of Wales Act without the consent of Wales’s Senedd. That ties into the uncertainty about how the withdrawal agreement will impact on Wales. There is unease that control over the UK single market will be exercised solely from Westminster, and there is a question of resources. What are the long-term plans for replacing European strategic funds, from which Wales has benefitted greatly? Will this be known by December? It is astounding that such a far-reaching Bill can come to us without an economic impact assessment for Wales or Scotland—or indeed for Britain as a whole.

Reservations have been voiced by the Welsh Government, and there is little willingness among Assembly Members to accept the Bill in its current form. The issues they raise include the use of Henry VIII powers. They seek undertakings that the UK Government will not use powers to amend the Government of Wales Act without the National Assembly’s consent. They are also concerned about the December deadline for transition arrangements. They fear that, in missing the deadline, tariffs will be imposed on Welsh advanced manufacturing and agri-food exports, on which Wales depends to a greater extent than England.

The Welsh Government seek changes to the Bill to ensure transparency and scrutiny by both Parliament and the devolved legislatures as the negotiations proceed, and that agreement of the devolved Governments is obtained prior to ratification. There must be prior consultation on matters such as the state aid regime, reciprocal healthcare, access to Erasmus programmes and EU research funds, issues relating to Wales’s territorial waters, and the ability of business to exchange key workers with EU-based employees of the same company, all of which impact on devolved responsibilities.

Wales’s Government also urge that the one non-executive member of the proposed independent monitoring authority

“who knows about conditions in Wales”—

to use the words in the Bill—should be appointed on the advice of the National Assembly. That was not the point made by the Minister at the start of this debate.

Also, the UK Government need to ensure that their post-EU policies are acceptable to the elected Governments of Wales and Scotland. If Mr Johnson thinks that he can ride roughshod over the two Governments, I am afraid that he is in for a shock. Both Governments are refusing to accede to legislative consent orders without cast-iron assurances that their priorities will be heard. Noble Lords may assure themselves that ultimate power currently remains at Westminster: after all, power devolved is power retained. Ultimately, the UK Government can impose the policies it wishes on Wales and Scotland for however long they remain in this increasingly disunited kingdom. However, such an approach may well ignite the tinder-box, fragmenting the United Kingdom. Yes, Wales and Scotland can be overruled, but that would blow to the United Kingdom to smithereens. If that is the path this House wishes to follow, so be it—but please let it not say that it was never warned.

Brexit: Preparations

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Monday 21st October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank my noble friend for his question. I know the close interest he takes in this matter, which he asked me about a couple of weeks ago. I hope he will understand why I was not able fully to answer his question then. It would indeed be a matter for legislation in this country although, given the terms of the Good Friday agreement, we would want to consult closely with the Irish Government.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

The Minister said that the European authorities should not ignore the first letter that was sent, and I am sure we would all concur with that. Assuming they do not ignore it, and that they respond to it over the next seven days, will he give an assurance that the tremendous waste of resources in this preparation exercise will immediately be suspended and the extension will be taken full advantage of in order to get an orderly Brexit—if Brexit has to happen?

[Lord Callanan]

The President of the European Council tweeted to say that the request was valid, and he had accepted it. Of course, the legal default remains in place, but as soon as this Parliament agrees a deal and the EU agrees a deal or an extension is granted, we will want to discontinue the arrangements for leaving on 31 October. But many of the preparations we are undertaking will be required on our eventual exit anyway.

Brexit

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Monday 21st October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I cannot say that that would be definite but it is important that we abide by the provisions of the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act. Of course, the House passing a statute provides the appropriate coverage for doing that.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, in view of the Minister’s reference to the fact that the border in the Irish Sea will have implications, can he give an assurance that the contents of this Bill have been discussed with the Government of Wales?

[Lord Callanan]

Yes, we have certainly discussed many aspects of it with the Government of Wales.

Brexit: Customs Controls at Holyhead

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Thursday 17th October 2019 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Wigley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are their latest proposals to avoid delays at customs control on goods being transported between Dublin and Holyhead, following the United Kingdom’s departure from the European Union.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, I am pleased to tell the House that the Government have this morning concluded a new withdrawal agreement with the EU. Our intention is to agree an ambitious future partnership, including a best-in-class free trade agreement, which will establish an effective customs agreement for the movement of goods between the UK and the EU once we leave. In a no-deal scenario, the Government have agreed to prioritise flow and move to new border requirements over time to allow businesses to adjust.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, we all realise that the trade relationship between Ireland, the north of Ireland and the United Kingdom has been a central sticking point in the Brexit process. But the devil is in the detail, and therefore the detail has to be transparent and watertight. Will the Minister tell the House what assessment the Government have made in the specific context of Northern Ireland-produced perishable goods bound for England, up to 60% of which go on lorries via Dublin and Holyhead, as to whether they will be subject to border controls at Holyhead? To avoid queues of 500 lorries stretching three miles long, the movement of goods through Holyhead has to remain seamless and unhindered, as it is today.

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord makes an important point. He can be assured that we are working hard to make sure that there are zero queues at Holyhead. We want the new arrangements to be as seamless as possible so that the transport of perishable goods goes forward without any hindrance.

Brexit: Preparations

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank my noble friend for his comments and join him in congratulating all the officials across government who are working on no-deal preparations. We have some excellent civil servants who are putting in a great deal of work to make sure that the country is prepared to honour the democratic decision the British people took to leave the European Union.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, at lunchtime, the BBC news reported that Mrs Merkel is looking for a customs union element in Northern Ireland in order to find some common ground. Given that Mrs May’s Government had that as a policy, and given the single market policy of the present Government, is it not possible to bring these together to find a compromise that can avoid us crashing out on 31 October?

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord makes a good point. We are seeking a compromise and have compromised considerably by conceding that Northern Ireland will remain aligned—part of the single market, effectively—for agri-foods and goods on the island of Ireland. We look to the EU to make similar compromises. No nation on earth has an internal customs border in its territory and it is unreasonable to expect the UK to do that.

Brexit

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, for once we have a debate that is timely, following as it does so quickly in the wake of the Prime Minister’s conference speech and indeed the publication of the documents delivered this afternoon to Brussels. Having said that, one really must ask whether the “take it or leave it” approach is a basis on which to secure the mutual trust that is essential if we are to achieve a harmonious relationship with our European neighbours.

I have quickly read the documents published today and, however they are dressed up, these proposals will place Northern Ireland in a different relationship with Europe to that of Britain, as the noble Lord, Lord Empey, noted a moment ago. The reality is, if the UK is outside a European customs union area and the Irish Republic is inside that customs union, there will inevitably be a border between the north and south of Ireland. There are only two ways of avoiding this: first, if both the UK and the Irish Republic remain in a customs union—and that could of course still be possible even if the UK ceases being a member of the European Union—or, alternatively, by the reunification of Ireland. This is an option that, in our many Brexit debates, we have skirted around. Now, following the Johnson ultimatum, it cannot be avoided. It would be subject of course to the endorsement of the majority of electors in both the north and the south. The world of politics is full of unintended consequences, and one such example is that Brexit may lead to a united Ireland.

Those Members of this House or another place who still advocate or concur with a no-deal Brexit must face this reality: their course of action may well lead to the end of the United Kingdom in its present form. Such constitutional change could well accelerate Scotland’s departure from the union, which would then confront Wales with a fundamental decision on our future as well. Noble Lords might imagine that such a scenario would have its attractions for me, as an advocate of maximum Welsh autonomy. But let me make it quite clear: it does not. The maximum independence for our respective nations must be within a framework of the free movement of people, goods and money. Such a framework is provided by the European Union, providing free movement for its 28 member states. That is one reason, though not the only reason, why I so strongly support the UK remaining in the European Union.

The Prime Minister could have announced today that he was willing to compromise and interpret Brexit as being delivered within a framework that would permit the ongoing free movement of people, goods and money between the UK outside the EU and Ireland within the EU. That would implicitly mean free movement with the whole of the EU. Had that been so, I too would have been willing to compromise—as, indeed, Plaid Cymru did when we accepted the joint White Paper published by the Welsh Government in 2017 on that matter and along those lines. But Mr Johnson will not compromise, so those of us who wish to retain such links with our continent cannot retain confidence in this Government. That lack of confidence is reinforced by the determination of Mr Johnson to leave the EU without a deal if no agreement is achieved by 31 October. Crashing out in this way would be economically devastating for Wales, as many noble Lords have argued many times. I shall not repeat those arguments, although I note today with interest that Northern Ireland is being offered a new deal while Wales is not.

The Prime Minister once again today indicated that he will not ask for the 31 October cliff edge to be delayed in order to secure a deal. In taking such a stance, he is specifically refusing to respect the legislative revisions endorsed by this Chamber. If in two weeks’ time there is no agreement with the EU and no undertaking to extend the Article 50 date, then MPs must surely vote no confidence in Mr Johnson and his Government. I hope they do so and follow that with a resolution of the House indicating their support for another senior MP, be that Kenneth Clarke, Margaret Beckett or whoever, to head a cross-party Government to sort out this whole sorry saga. The Speaker could convey the name of that person to Her Majesty the Queen, even if the Prime Minister were unwilling to do so. That new Government should then move rapidly to reach a compromise deal with the European Union which involves rethinking our customs union relationship with our continent.

I realise that such a version of Brexit will not be acceptable to all Brexiteers; but neither is a no-deal Brexit acceptable to all leave voters, let alone all remainers. That is why there must be a confirmatory referendum in which the Brexit proposed by the cross-party Government is tested against the status quo. Such a binding referendum could then be held early in the new year, allowing Brexit to be finally resolved by March. That would enable an election to follow in May with the Brexit issue resolved and every party able to address the pressing social, environmental and economic problems facing these islands. I appeal to MPs of all parties to reject the Boris bluster and replace him with a Prime Minister who will respect the legislation on the Brexit timetable and allow us to find a consensus way forward.

Brexit Readiness and Operation Yellowhammer

Lord Wigley Excerpts

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

Let me explain to the noble Lord what these assumptions are all about. The Cabinet’s civil contingencies unit prepares the reasonable worst-case assumptions and then we do our best, working across the whole panoply of government, to mitigate those scenarios. In the case of social care, we are working closely with local authorities; this morning we had reports at a Cabinet committee from local resilience forums and from the devolved Administrations. The Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government is working closely with all local authorities and with the local resilience forums to mitigate the possible impacts in social care, and across all the other areas that local authorities are responsible for. We have extremely good, collaborative working across the piece on this matter.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, the noble Lord specifically referred to shellfish in his Statement—an industry of considerable importance in my part of north-west Wales. Can he give an assurance that, in circumstances of a no-deal Brexit, where those exporting shellfish to continental Europe have their product held up through no fault of their own and thereby lose tremendous value in trade, there will be a compensation scheme funded by the Government?

[Lord Callanan]

We will of course do our level best to make sure that the flow at the border does not result in any undue delays. There is a considerable amount of effort going into ensuring that, and there are appropriate plans in place to help industrial sectors and businesses that are adversely impacted by any of these effects. These are all contingency plans and we hope that none of them will come into operation. All the work we are doing is designed to make sure that there is a smooth flow of trade at the border and that none of the producers in north-west Wales will have cause for concern.

European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 6) Bill

Lord Wigley Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 5th September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Wigley]

My Lords, I am delighted to follow the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, who I also consider a friend. I agreed with most of what he said on the European context, as much as I disagreed with the noble Lord, Lord Howard, a few moments ago.

I welcome the comments with which the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, opened this debate, referring to the context of our times in which this debate takes place. It was 80 years ago this week that the Second World War started. At that time we did not turn our backs on Europe. The existence of the European Union has grown from the desire of people to avoid ever again fighting civil wars on our continent in the way that happened so disastrously twice in the last century. That is the context of what we are debating now.

I am delighted to support the Second Reading of this Bill. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, for the way he introduced it. My party, Plaid Cymru, played a constructive role in the discussions that took place and led to this Bill, particularly through Liz Saville Roberts MP, our leader in the House of Commons. As a party, we campaigned to remain—and so did I. However, we were willing to seek a compromise because we recognised that Wales and Britain had voted no to Europe. In fact, a White Paper was brought forward jointly by the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru with a compromise that would have involved a customs union and single market involvement. It could have found a majority across party boundaries in the House of Commons, but it was ruled out by the red lines that Mrs May introduced. I regret very much indeed that that opportunity was missed.

Of course, things have now moved on. We are faced with a very real danger of crashing out of the European Union on a no-deal basis. This would be utterly disastrous in the Irish context, which no doubt the noble Lord, Lord Hain, will talk about in a few moments’ time. It would also be disastrous at home in Wales. Take agriculture: in the first week of November, where will our sheep farmers take their sheep when there is no market for them? That it true not just in Wales but in the north of England and Scotland. When we have an unknown trading relationship with the continent into which we are so integrated, how will the manufacturing companies in my part of north Wales, such as Airbus and Toyota, be able to continue trading, given the just-in-time basis on which deliveries take place? The same is true for our universities, the tourism sector and NHS staff. It will be a disaster if we crash out. I support the Second Reading of this Bill in order to systematically and definitively avoid no deal.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords—