House of Lords Reform Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Trefgarne and Lord Shutt of Greetland

Friday 21st October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

Strictly speaking: yes, but that will of course depend on the amendment being put in the first place.

[Lord Trefgarne]

My Lords, before I withdraw the amendment—as I will do in a moment—is it not clear, following the Motion moved by my noble friend Lord Steel this morning and agreed by your Lordships, that we are now in a considerable state of disarray as far as these clauses and amendments are concerned? I am not particularly bright or talented but I have had the privilege of being a Member of your Lordships’ House for nearly 50 years. I cannot remember how many committees I have take part in or even led from the Dispatch Box. I have never found myself in this disarray before. Plainly, I think that noble Lords took the decision to reorder consideration of these clauses without the benefit of adequate advice. Did we not understand that the confusion now reigning would take place? I suspect that there is not much that we can do about it now unless we decided to adjourn for a moment to allow the clerks to reorder the Marshalled List. If that is not to happen—I do not suppose that it is—I shall beg leave, for now, to withdraw the amendment, unless, that is, my noble friend has some more to say.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

It may be helpful to read out paragraph 8.65 in the Companion:

“Each amendment on the marshalled list and each manuscript amendment is called in turn by the Lord on the Woolsack or in the Chair, subject only to pre-emption. An amendment which has been tabled need not be moved, but if none of the members named as supporters of the amendment moves it any other member may do so”.

That is quite clear on what can happen. Noble Lords will have noticed with care that, although I have been sat here for quite a time, I have not spoken. That is because this is private business. It is not government business and the House decided what to do. It was in the hands of the House and the House decided—there was a vote—that noble Lords would take the back half of the Bill first and then come to the front half. That was decided earlier today.

[Lord Trefgarne]

My Lords, I of course accept that the House decided to agree to my noble friend Lord Steel’s Motion earlier today and that is that. I suggest that it might have been better had the Minister offered some advice on the result of agreeing that Motion while your Lordships discussed it. Be that as it may, he did not do so and we are now somewhat confused. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment that I moved on behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

My Lords, let me just try something without being partial, because it is up to the House what it does. There is half an hour. Your Lordships may remember that on 20 July we were debating the Localism Bill, a government Bill. During a wonderful period between about 7.30 pm and 8 pm, everybody agreed to withdraw amendments and leave it until Report. Many different people were involved who were concerned with several different amendments. That decision was taken; it was left to Report, and Report on the Bill has now concluded. That would be a way forward, if that is what the House wishes, but it is in the hands of the House whether it wishes to do something like that or to proceed with several amendments and, perhaps, not get too far today.

[Lord Trefgarne]

My noble friend Lord Caithness and I cannot be asked to agree something on behalf of other noble Lords. It is not just my noble friend and myself who have tabled amendments to Part 1.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

My Lords, there are five minutes left. If every amendment is called, it can be dealt with. That would take a bit of time, but that would be it. If that does not happen, I will have to move that the House do resume.

[Lord Trefgarne]

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Water Supply: Northern Ireland

Debate between Lord Trefgarne and Lord Shutt of Greetland

Wednesday 9th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Trefgarne]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assistance they provided to the Northern Ireland authorities during their recent difficulties with water supplies.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

My Lords, during the period of extreme cold weather, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland met the devolved Ministers with policy responsibility in this area and offered the Government’s assistance. He subsequently discussed the matter with the Secretary of State for the Environment and with Water UK, and helped to identify additional call-centre capacity to deal with the heavy volume of calls from customers in Northern Ireland who had suffered disruption.

[Lord Trefgarne]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that reply. I am reassured to hear that there was additional call-centre capacity, but I wonder what additional water was supplied.

[Lord Shutt of Greetland]

As far as water is concerned, there is no shortage of water in Northern Ireland. The good Lord makes good provision. The problem is getting the water to where it is needed. Extra water was pumped into the pipes but the problem was that some of that leaked out. However, the call centres were very important indeed and we must not forget that. An offer of assistance was made by the First Minister of Scotland—a sort of Christmas gift—and 160,000 litres of Scotland's water were taken across to Northern Ireland. I am sure that those in Northern Ireland were very pleased to have it. However, Northern Ireland's daily consumption of water is 625,000,000 litres. In other words, the gift from Scotland, welcome though it may have been, was 0.000256 per cent of a day’s water usage.