Integrated Security, Defence and Foreign Policy Review

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 8th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I am grateful to my noble friend and can reassure him that those reports have been read. I can only endorse his central point: the world is changing rapidly. Technology is advancing at pace, international relations are becoming more complex, and conflict and climate change are driving migration at scale. That is why the Government must not get stuck in outmoded practices and ways of thinking. We have to be nimbler on our feet, adapt faster and take decisions in an integrated and better fashion. The review will address all these issues.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, did the Minister listen yesterday to the speech of my noble friend Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, who recalled that he and the late Robin Cook worked together to produce a defence and foreign policy review that lasted an unprecedented 11 years? They achieved this by forming a defence review built on agreed foreign policy objectives. Will the Government follow that sensible pattern? It seems a common-sense approach to this sort of review, although, having said that, I recall my mother telling me as a young man that in life I would find that sense was not that common.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I listened with care yesterday to the words of the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, and agreed with a great deal of what he said. However, this review is about more than defence. It is about both defence and the wider context in which defence operates: our international relations, international foreign policy and national security. Defence will be bound up in this, and I anticipate that the kind of far-reaching and comprehensive review he referred to, which took place under the Labour Government, will be broadly mirrored in the work that we do.

Aircraft Carrier Task Force

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 13th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, we will always have a sovereign task group capability. As I said, the carriers will operate as part of a maritime task group, which will be tailored to meet the required tasks in a particular case. The precise number and mix of vessels deployed would depend on operational circumstances. As the noble Lord knows, we will be able to draw on a range of modern and highly capable vessels to support the carriers, including Type 45 destroyers, Type 23 frigates, Astute-class submarines and, in due course, Type 26 frigates. We will also work routinely with ships from allied navies.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, is this sabre-rattling in the Pacific intended to give our friends in the region confidence, or to make the Chinese tremble? When the Americans deploy a carrier they provide an escort of a cruiser, four destroyers, a carrier wing, a submarine and 7,500 sailors. Can we do that?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, this is not about sabre-rattling. Indeed, it is not about antagonising China in any way. My right honourable friend the Defence Secretary announced that the first operational mission of the “Queen Elizabeth” would include the Mediterranean, the Middle East and the Pacific region, thereby enabling the Royal Navy to maximise the opportunities we have to exercise and interact with our key regional allies and partners, and to make a statement about upholding the international rules-based system, including freedom of navigation.

Modernising Defence Programme

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Tuesday 18th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

We have not hedged all our defence budget, but we have hedged a substantial proportion of it, particularly that which is payable in dollars. I was speaking to our finance director last week about this. Although she could never be sanguine about the way the pound is moving, she is much clearer now that we have an affordable equipment budget over the next couple of years, which is the period over which she aims to hedge. I have already made it clear to the noble Lord, Lord Browne, that it is, unfortunately, impossible for me to enumerate at this point those projects which will come under the umbrella of the transformation fund. It was said that £160 million is not a great deal of money—it sounds like a great deal of money to me, I must say—but one should not think of transformation simply in terms of platforms and assets. One has to think of it in terms of different ways of working and of modernising practices within defence. That is where this fund will score most heavily.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

In the Statement we are told that the Government wish,

“to improve markedly the way we run Defence”,

and that:

“Based on our work to date, we expect to achieve over the next decade the very demanding efficiency targets we were set in 2015”.


Can the Minister remind the House of how much money the 2015 defence review said would be saved by efficiency savings and over what period? How much has been saved to date? Have any service personnel been deployed to work in the MoD to fill vacancies caused by civil servants leaving because of efficiency savings achieved to date?

[Earl Howe]

I am afraid I do not have the information in my brief to answer the last part of the noble Lord’s question, but the target we set ourselves in 2015 was £7.4 billion of efficiency savings. We have achieved 70% of our target; we have achieved £5 billion. That was the target over a five-year period. We are now looking further ahead to see what further efficiencies we can generate over a 10-year period. That work is ongoing.

[Earl Howe]

I am sorry that the noble Lord feels that way. I gently put it to him that the size of the document belies the depth and significance of its content. This was never going to be about a catalogue of future assets or platforms or number of ships in the Navy. As I said earlier, the programme is largely strategic, focusing on those key defence capabilities on which we think we should concentrate in the light of the threats facing us. In effect, it is a sense check of the SDSR of 2015.

The noble Lord rightly says that the spending review will be an important ingredient in our budget over the longer term, but the outcomes of the MDP will inform next year’s spending review in a helpful way. It provides a solid foundation on which to base the case that we will present for defence spending over the coming few years.

Noble Lords should not underestimate the importance of the Budget settlement. That settlement will undoubtedly enable our Armed Forces to modernise and meet the intensifying threats and risks that we now face, including prioritising investment in key capabilities. The spending review will come next year, but we have in the meantime the ability to move forward on a number of vital fronts, which is extremely valuable.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, the Minister was not able to answer my third point. Will he discover that information and write to me?

[Earl Howe]

Yes, gladly, my Lords.

Defence Modernisation Programme

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 29th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I cannot give the noble and gallant Lord specific examples of equipment. However, I can say that in the area of cyber we need to ensure that we are ahead of the game and that our programmes for the Royal Navy are as up to date as they can be. It is about focusing our resources on the areas that are most important regarding the threats that face us. It is also about ensuring that we have infrastructure that is fit for purpose, both in our head office and in the Armed Forces themselves. That relates very much to the efficiency programme. I am confident in that programme; we have a way to go on it but we are doing well. If one thinks about certain platforms in the Army, the Royal Navy and the air force, efficiency is a very live issue in all those contexts.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

I add to noble Lords’ comments in wishing the Minister many happy returns of the day. I think he is 67; he should be reassured that that is only 19 degrees Celsius. Just 10 days ago in the Moses Room, the Minister said he could not stand before us and commit the Government to conducting a full defence review. I am very sorry that this is not going to be such a full defence review because it will be another wasted opportunity. We need a major review, as has been said all across the House by noble and noble and gallant Lords today. Just picking at the edges is not going to be sufficient. If we do not have a major and full defence review. then in one or two years’ time, if he is still the Minister, the noble Earl will be back apologising once more for having to go through the whole exercise again.

[Earl Howe]

I hope I can assuage the noble Lord’s concerns to some extent by reminding him that we wish the modernising defence programme to be an inclusive process. We are eager to hear from parliamentarians and others about what we should be thinking about most of all. So, even if this is not badged as a fully fledged review, I hope noble Lords will feel able to raise with the Government the concerns and issues that they wish to.

Armed Forces (Flexible Working) Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 11th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, I said in Committee that the Government would reflect further on the recommendation from your Lordships’ Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. That committee’s recommendation is to the same effect as the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, and indeed the proposed amendment of the noble Baronesses, Lady Smith and Lady Jolly.

I am grateful to both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their thoughtful contributions to this Bill. I recognise the hesitations of my noble friend Lord Attlee around the affirmative procedure in this context, but the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee rightly highlighted to the House that some of the new Defence Council regulations to be made under this Bill will go beyond matters of pure procedure. We have considered the committee’s recommendation and its reasons for making it, and we have decided on balance that it is right to accept it. I acknowledge the strength of feeling in this House to ensure appropriate scrutiny of those forthcoming regulations.

While the intended effect of the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, and that of the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, is exactly the same, I hope that the noble Baronesses will not be unduly disappointed if on this occasion I agree to accept the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, to the Bill, which I am pleased to do.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, this has been a very brief but successful debate all round, I think. I am grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, for having shared his views with me on a number of occasions. I understand his concerns. I have been in this House just seven years, but one of the striking contrasts I have found with the other place is our total and utter commitment to scrutinise and hold government to account, whether it is on large issues about platforms or issues that the noble Earl may consider to be of a much lesser degree of importance. We will want to continue that. I am grateful for the support, and I am very grateful to the Minister for accepting the amendment.

I pay particular tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, who chaired the committee that brought forward the recommendation to which the Government have certainly listened. She has done a tremendous job, and we all wish her well and hope that she is back soon.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, before I comment on the amendment, I say at the outset that as I have reflected and listened to the debate I was very much struck by the point made right at the beginning by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Boyce. His words convinced me that there is nothing in civilian life that compares to life in the services. We in this House and in the country must recognise that when you join the Armed Forces, it is not like joining Barclays or Tesco; you are joining an organisation in which you can put your life on the line to defend our country. We in this House and in the whole country, whenever we talk about defence, must remember that and remember that it is people we are talking about.

The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig of Radley, when he moved his amendment on this matter in Grand Committee, raised his concerns about the term “part-time”, questioning, as the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, has said, whether it had,

“the potential for misunderstanding and for belittling the reputation of the Armed Forces”.

He therefore asked a very simple question:

“Could a better, less questionable word or phrase be used instead?”.—[Official Report, 12/9/17; col. GC 69.]


That is at the heart of this debate.

In Grand Committee I made it clear from these Benches that we are sympathetic to the noble and gallant Lord’s amendment, and that position remains unchanged. The men and women of our Armed Forces are truly exceptional. That is accepted around the world, and it is the duty of any Government to protect this reputation. However, terminology is all-important in these matters—a point I recall the Minister also making. Communication and language is complicated enough. Call me old fashioned, but I am sure that I am not alone in this House when I say that plain speaking is the best way to communicate.

In Committee we urged the Government to respond and come back at Report. In the interim, authors of various amendments in Grand Committee received very thoughtful, helpful letters from the Minister. While I accept that this is not the only concern behind the noble and gallant Lord’s amendment, I was pleased to see the Minister stress that the Bill could not be used by a future Administration to force an individual into part-time working. I hope that he will repeat that today.

Of one thing I am certain, and again I echo the words of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, in Grand Committee:

“First, let me confirm my acceptance in principle of flexible schemes which are viable, enjoy service support and do not detract from the operational 24/7 capability of the Armed Forces”.—[Official Report, 12/9/17; col. GC 69.]


We would certainly endorse that, but I am sure that I am not alone when I say that I do not want to jeopardise the opportunity to put the simple yet powerful aspiration that the noble and gallant Lord articulated so well into action. I hope that the Government will have a positive response to help us this afternoon.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I begin by apologising to the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, and to the House for the guidance that I gave him in my letter following Committee when I said that according to the advice I had received, it would not be possible to amend the Long Title of the Bill. That advice resulted from an honest interpretation of the Companion to the Standing Orders. It was given in good faith but it was clearly incorrect in light of further advice from the Public Bill Office, and I am sorry.

These amendments stem from concerns previously expressed by noble and noble and gallant Lords over the use of the phrase “part-time” in the Bill; namely, that its use serves to belittle the reputation of our Armed Forces and perhaps even puts those personnel who choose to work part-time at risk of some form of denigration from colleagues amounting even to bullying and harassment, because the Armed Forces will see part-time working as somehow less worthy. I have to say to the noble and gallant Lord that I do not agree with that analysis, and nor do the service chiefs.

It is important to appreciate the context of what we seek to do. The measures in the Bill are part of a series of steps we are taking to modernise the Armed Forces’ terms of service. They are entirely of a piece with some of the other forward-looking steps we have taken in the recent past, such as lifting the ban on women in close combat roles, which have helped to further modernise our Armed Forces, making them a more attractive career choice to wider sections of our society. We must continue down this path if we are to be truly representative of the people whom we serve.

As I have mentioned previously, this measure has the full support of the service chiefs. Our use of the word “part-time” is absolutely deliberate. The meaning of statute has to be clear. We want to be clear to Parliament and to our people that part-time working is indeed what we are introducing, albeit with certain constraints to protect operational capability. Personnel will be able to reduce their commitment to less than full-time and their pay will be adjusted accordingly. Whichever way one tries to explain it, this is part-time working and that is the main reason why the Bill is drafted as it is and why we continue to believe this wording to be appropriate. The noble and gallant Lord’s amendment seeks to disguise what we plan to do. I do not think that legislation should ever go down that sort of path. Legislation should make its meaning clear.

The noble and gallant Lord will no doubt argue that his amendment encapsulates the Government’s policy in different words. It does not. The phrase,

“take breaks from full-time service”,

could describe a variety of different things, including some of the flexible working opportunities already in place, such as unpaid leave, career intermissions and maternity leave. We are introducing something through the Bill that is distinctly different from those things and therefore the way we describe it needs to be very clear. The services are not afraid of plain language and plain language is what we are providing here.

It may help if I repeat what I mentioned in my round-robin letter—that “part-time” has been used in a previous Armed Forces Act. This is not an unprecedented use of the phrase in our legislation. It occurs, for example, in Section 2(1A) and 2(1B) of the Armed Forces Act 1966. It has never caused problems in the past. Circumlocution is therefore not only a wrong approach in my view, it is also unnecessary.

When the noble and gallant Lord advances an argument, I take it seriously, as does the Ministry of Defence, but I cannot agree with his premise. We do not accept the argument that the use of “part-time” will denigrate the individual who works under this arrangement, or denigrate the services in any way. Neither do we agree with the suggestion that those who choose to work part-time for a limited period are not the type of people we need in today’s Armed Forces. On the contrary, it is arguable that those who choose to work part-time, for a temporary period, for reduced pay, rather than leave the services, display an admirable commitment to serving their country. This is precisely the calibre of person that we need to retain and recruit in today’s Armed Forces.

Times move on. Working part-time is a modern, widely recognised and practised working pattern, including for those whose service and work are a vocation, to pick up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord West, quoting the noble Viscount, Lord Slim. As noble Lords may recall, I held a briefing session on 11 July this year, which some noble Lords attended, where two serving commanding officers were also in attendance. Both those officers genuinely welcomed the introduction of part-time working, which they saw as another tool to help us look after our people at times in their lives when they need it most. They had no difficulty with either the concept or the terminology we are using to describe it. The reason that they had no difficulty is that these new measures and others that we are introducing elsewhere to help improve the overall offer to our people will encourage service men and women to stay and may attract others to join.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baronesses, Lady Smith and Lady Jolly, for tabling a further amendment on service accommodation. As the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, noted in Committee, there are already significant pressures on service accommodation, and that is before we even begin to consider the move to the future accommodation model from 2019.

I will not go into the detail about our concerns on the future accommodation model, but clearly there are urgent questions for the Government to answer on how the Bill will affect personnel who rely on service accommodation, particularly when the system is shaken up. There will also be more questions for the Government to answer in the future as the new system is rolled out. I am therefore glad to see the addition of the second part of Amendment 9, which would require the Secretary of State not only to provide a periodic snapshot but to be proactive in anticipating future accommodation needs. I hope that the Minister will provide us with some answers—perhaps in a further round of letters before Third Reading—and offer a firm commitment; it is important that these things are reported back to Parliament.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, Amendment 9 is similar to the amendment to which I spoke in Grand Committee—I think it was Amendment 13 on that occasion—which sought to amend the Bill to ensure that personnel who successfully apply to work part-time will still be entitled to service family accommodation and resettlement support.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, will recall that during discussions in Grand Committee I provided assurances that regular service personnel undertaking part-time working would retain the entitlements currently available to full-time regulars. I was able to give those assurances because providing our people with service accommodation is pivotal to the work we are doing to enable personnel and their families with mobility in support of defence capability.

To support my earlier reassurances, I stress again that regular service personnel who successfully apply to work part-time following the introduction of these new measures will be entitled to service accommodation commensurate with their personal status category and other qualifying criteria in the same way as their full-time colleagues. There is no reason to alter the entitlement to accommodation for those who undertake part-time working in the future since these individuals will retain an enduring liability for mobility and will still be subject to the same moves associated with new assignments as others in the regular Armed Forces.

Armed Forces (Flexible Working) Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 12th September 2017 Grand Committee

[Lord Touhig]

Perhaps I may comment on the point made by the noble Earl, Lord Attlee. His suggestion would not be the right way. He discussed it with me last week. The Bill substantially depends on regulations to bring in its measures, and how would one decide what we would bring in the first tranche and the second tranche, and so on? Therefore everything that relates to this matter should be subject to the affirmative procedure.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the first amendment in this group, Amendment 4, seeks to place in the Bill information to define how flexible working should be implemented. I agree that it is important that we have clarity over exactly how the new flexible working opportunities will be administered. I reassure the Committee that the policies and processes that will support the changes brought by the Bill have been designed by the services for the services. We have done a great deal of work with the services to develop policies that work for them and their people, and we will continue to refine them in the lead-up to their introduction in 2019 and after to ensure that they are clear and fit for purpose. In doing so, we will continue to consult our people.

As noble Lords will recall, I outlined at Second Reading how we envisage the new flexible working arrangements will be administered following their introduction in 2019. In my subsequent written responses to Peers, I also promised that my officials would publish some additional information over the summer that would explain in more detail how the new arrangements would work in practice. I hope that noble Lords have received that information and found it helpful, and that it has answered the points raised in this proposed amendment.

It might just be helpful if for the record I went through some of the processes that we envisage. We have a position on how we intend that flexible working arrangements will operate in practice. I am sure that noble Lords will appreciate that at this stage the detail remains subject to adjustment as a result of the ongoing policy refinement with the services, further work in the light of surveys and other feedback and, indeed, the need to account for the views of Parliament. In summary, however, the policy is intended to operate as follows.

We believe that regular service personnel must have completed their basic and professional training and a period of further service, defined by their parent service, before they can normally undertake flexible working. A serviceperson wishing to apply to serve flexibly will apply through the joint personnel administration system through their commanding officer to an approvals authority at the headquarters of their service. No limit will be imposed on the number of occasions over a period that the serviceperson will be able to apply to serve flexibly, although they will be restricted to having only one live application at a time being processed by the administration system. However, there will be limits on individual periods of flexible working to help the services manage the applications and people’s expectations.

We intend to limit periods of flexible working to no more than three years at any one time or to the end of an assignment, whichever is sooner. Within this period we intend to enable people to reduce their liability to serve by up to 40%, such as two days in a five-day working week of their regular full-time service. Service personnel requesting limits to their routine unlimited liability for separation from their home base will still remain liable for a maximum of 35 days separation in any one year. This will enable them to continue to undertake essential courses or participate in smaller periods of exercises.

We also intend to restrict the total cumulative time that a serviceperson can serve on flexible working arrangements. This is to maintain the principle that regular service is a full-time and unlimited commitment, while also helping to share the opportunities for flexible working among the broadest range of personnel. Currently we are planning for the total period of all types of flexible working to be limited to four years in a 12-year rolling period. The exact approvals process is likely to vary slightly by service and we are still designing certain elements of it. Currently we plan that the approvals authority will take decisions after being informed by the chain of command, the employing organisation—for example, if the person is working with another service—career managers, manpower planners and other specialists as required.

The principal deciding factor when considering applications will be the ability to maintain operational capability. The individual merits of each application will be considered and will include factors such as the type of role the person is serving in, whether the person has been warned to prepare to deploy for operation and, if appropriate, the personal circumstances surrounding the application. If an application is refused, an individual can appeal against the decision, as I mentioned earlier.

Appeals will be considered by a separate appeals authority which will operate at the headquarters of each service. The exact make-up of that body has yet to be set. The appeals authority will make its decisions informed by information from the employer, the employing organisation, the chain of command, career managers, manpower planners and other specialists. Service personnel will of course have the right to escalate their appeal to a service complaint if they remain unhappy with the decision.

The services will retain the right to recall regular service personnel from flexible working arrangements to ensure that operational capability is maintained while providing as much certainty of the arrangement for the individual as possible. Such recall will be against prescribed criteria sanctioned by the headquarters approvals authority within each service. Personnel will be subject to two levels of recall. The first will be immediate recall in cases of national emergency, and the second is curtailment after 90 days’ notice. The latter would apply where there is a significant change in the circumstances used to judge and approve the original agreement.

We continue to work on the detail but envisage that a change in circumstances would include a change to the requirement for operational capability which is affected by overall manning levels of the service or trade or any specific skills held by the serviceperson during the period of flexible working. Should any of these change substantially, the service would be able to issue a 90-day notice to recall the serviceperson to full duties, either by suspending the flexible working arrangements for a defined period to allow them to be adopted again later for the remainder of the originally agreed period or by cancelling the flexible working arrangement outright. Where these circumstances occur, they would constitute a manning crisis as a result of severe manning constraints, manpower shortages on specific operational tasks or skills shortages. All approvals, refusals and amendments to agreements between a serviceperson and their service will be set out in writing to avoid any uncertainty and to provide an audit trail. The detail I have just outlined has been published on the GOV.UK website.

As we intend to continue to refine the parameters of exactly how this policy will operate within the services by learning from their experience of operating it after introduction, it would be unnecessarily constraining to have the parameters proposed in the amendment set in primary legislation. The noble Lord, Lord Touhig, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, made clear their view that this should all be in regulation, at least. The provisions that I have outlined will be set out in a mixture of regulation and policy statements, rather than exclusively in regulation.

The purpose of Amendments 6 and 18 is to require any new regulations made by the Defence Council of a kind to be introduced by Clause 1(2) of the Bill to come into force only following the affirmative resolution procedure. Amendment 6 looks to achieve this by inserting into Section 329 of the Armed Forces Act 2006 a new subsection (4A). However, I must tell the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, that due to the way in which the 2006 Act works, any amendments to the procedure would need to be by way of amendment to Section 373, as identified by the noble Baronesses in their Amendment 18.

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[Lord Touhig]

I will not get carried away. The publication of the Armed Forces Covenant Annual Report has become a well-established practice, and the Government should be congratulated on that. Because of that, we on this side were motivated to table Amendment 12.

The Bill is a small but by no means insignificant measure, and when enacted its impact should be measured to see what implications it has for the covenant. Subsection 2 of the amendment requires that,

“the Secretary of State must determine whether the Armed Forces Covenant, or any of its supporting documentation, requires revision in order to reflect the measures provided for in this Act”.

By including the requirement set out in subsection 3 of the amendment, we are deliberately linking the impact of this Bill on the lives of service men and women to the covenant. By explicitly linking the Bill to the covenant, we are giving the external members of the covenant reference group an opportunity to consider and comment on the operation of the Bill when it becomes an Act.

The external members of the covenant reference group make a major contribution to monitoring the life and well-being of our Armed Forces, their families and all that affects their lives. This Bill should be no exception, so I heartily welcome the comments made by the Minister in a debate earlier this afternoon which made clear that the Government will ensure that the operation of this legislation will be reflected in a report on the covenant. That will give the external members of the covenant reference group a chance to comment on it. That is progress, and I look forward to that being enacted. I beg to move.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, has explained, this amendment seeks to require the Secretary of State for Defence to lay a Statement before both Houses of Parliament, within six months of this Bill coming into force, outlining the implications of this Bill, once enacted, for the Armed Forces covenant. This amendment would also require the Defence Secretary to consider whether the Armed Forces covenant, or any of its supporting documentation, requires revision to reflect the measures in the Bill. Finally, it seeks to commit the Defence Secretary to ensure that the annual report on the covenant reflects the contribution of this Bill to meeting Armed Forces covenant goals.

I share the view of the noble Lord about the importance of measuring and reporting on the impact of the changes that will be introduced through this Bill. I want to ensure that it is done in the most appropriate and effective way for both the MoD and Parliament. As I mentioned at Second Reading, and several times today, we expect a small but significant number of our people to take up the new opportunities introduced by the Bill.

For this reason and, I submit, the disproportionate administrative burden we believe it would create, we judge that there would be little value to be gained from producing a statement only six months after the Act has come into force. The long-term aim of providing these new arrangements, alongside a range of other measures in the MoD, is to modernise the terms of service and ultimately improve Armed Forces recruitment and retention, which I am sure all noble Lords would welcome.

In addition to this, evidence from our ongoing flexible duties trial suggests that in particular those with families have benefited from the greater stability that comes from having more choice over how they serve. This latter prospect has been welcomed by the services’ families’ federations, which view this as an important part of the drive for a better work/life balance among service families. It is these specific areas that I have just mentioned rather than the concept of the Armed Forces covenant itself that will feel the direct impact following the introduction of the new flexible working arrangements. We therefore do not anticipate that there will be any need to revise the wording of the covenant or its supporting documentation. As noble Lords will be aware, the Secretary of State is already required to lay an annual report before Parliament each year outlining the Government’s progress in delivering the Armed Forces covenant and, as I mentioned earlier, it is likely that a future report will include a section on the introduction of the measures included in this Bill and their effect. That would be entirely appropriate. For this reason, and the others I have already outlined, it seems unnecessary to legislate that the Secretary of State should report separately on the introduction of the new measures that the Bill will introduce. I do not therefore believe it is necessary for the Bill to be amended as suggested by the noble Lord. Following these assurances, I hope that he will agree to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Touhig]

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Royal Marines

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Tuesday 4th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend and I fully agree with her. Ministers make decisions based on military advice in this area.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, I shall take this to another point. The whole House would be shocked if there were redundancies among the Royal Marines, but the Government have form on denying full pensions to Armed Forces personnel made redundant. In 2013 I raised the issue of servicemen who had fought in Iraq and Afghanistan and were made redundant just days before they qualified for their full pension. One was so angry that he sent his medals back. Will the Minister state today that if there are redundancies in the Armed Forces, this shameful sleight of hand will not be repeated against the men and women who served our country?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I will of course look into that and I am grateful to the noble Lord for raising the matter. All I would say is that no part of the Armed Forces can be exempt from the need to look for efficiencies. Navy Command would not be doing its job if it did not regularly ask itself whether the balance between marines and sailors is right, whether there are roles that need to be performed by those currently performing them, and whether there is duplication of roles. That is a normal part of military and financial management.

Type 31 Frigate

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 3rd April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, my noble friend makes some extremely important points about the steel industry in this country. It is worth reflecting that if one looks at the Queen Elizabeth carrier programme, 88% of the steel that went into that carrier programme was from British steel mills, which indicates that we are competitive in world terms.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords,

“Our national security and our economic security go hand-in-hand”.


I am not quoting from the Prime Minister’s letter to Donald Tusk—those were the opening words of the MoD’s single departmental plan in 2015. Promoting defence exports was the clear objective. Sir John Parker, whom the Minister has already quoted, and who wrote the national shipbuilding strategy, said that not enough went into the export market for ships, and that the Type 31E would have export potential. He added that they should be built “urgently”. Is it not therefore a no-brainer? Should we not follow Sir John’s advice, build the ships our Navy needs now, and gain the export opportunities for British shipbuilders?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, Sir John made some very compelling recommendations, which we are seriously addressing. Broadly, they were to inject greater grip and pace into procurement and construction of ships, to make the Government a better customer, to make industry a stronger and more efficient supplier, and to create scope for exports in warship building, thus feeding into the prosperity agenda. Those were all very sensible recommendations.

HMS “Queen Elizabeth”

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Thursday 2nd March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government on what date the aircraft carrier HMS “Queen Elizabeth” will begin sea trials.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, HMS “Queen Elizabeth” is currently undertaking harbour trials as part of her test and integration phase. Sea trials will begin on successful completion of this phase.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, we were told in the review of the SDSR that the carrier HMS “Queen Elizabeth” would begin sea trials in the spring. Alas, in the words of Ella Fitzgerald, “spring will be a little late this year”, because Ministers now say that that will happen in the summer. But lo and behold, just two weeks ago, when my noble friend Lord West of Spithead asked whether summer was,

“defined as … from the summer solstice to the September equinox, or … June to August”,

he was told by the Minister that summer “was not defined” and that rather, it was a,

“broad indication of the likely timetable”.

This milestone in Britain’s maritime history is turning into a farce. I invite the Minister to come clean, tell us what has caused the delay and give us a firm date for the sea trials.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, perhaps I can clarify the timetable a little bit. “The summer” means “a little later than shortly”. To address the substance of his question, this is about the need to test systems. The Queen Elizabeth class carriers are the largest and most complex warships ever built in this country. It is essential that we thoroughly test the ship’s many complex systems before she begins sea trials. None of the issues now being tested will affect acceptance of contract of HMS “Queen Elizabeth” later this year. The work is within the tolerance that we had anticipated in the contract schedule.

Defence: Industrial Strategy

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 27th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that part of the work we have to do, and are doing, is looking at how we can optimise the strategic interaction between the Ministry of Defence and industry, including how we make defence a more attractive customer for people who do not traditionally supply to the MoD, such as small and medium-sized enterprises. It is about creating simpler processes and a more competitive UK supply chain. Of course, we would like to source from companies and organisations in this country, but we have to make it as easy as possible for them to deal with us.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, last Tuesday, Labour’s shadow defence team, together with my noble friend Lord West of Spithead, held a workshop with representatives of some 20 defence companies. The clear message from that event was that a defence strategy was the best way to streamline procurement and give a clear vision for the future to the defence sector. Have the Government had similar discussions with industry experts on the need for such a strategy? If not, may I suggest that they do? They may learn something.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I do not think we need to get too hung up on the word “strategy” as opposed to “policy”. The key questions, it seems to me, are how we can make UK industry more competitive, how we can drive innovation, how we can drive skills and, as I have said, how best to ensure that industry can engage productively with government and that government itself is a more intelligent customer. These are the questions we should address and I am sure they are the ones industry wants us to address.

NATO: Eastern Flank

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 30th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord is quite right. Article 5 is one of the key components of the NATO treaty and all allies are cognisant of what that means should any member of the alliance be subject to an armed incursion or attack.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, I endorse entirely the point made by my noble friend Lord West that we should keep a dialogue with the Russian Government open, and the NATO-Russia Council is perhaps a vehicle for doing that. The deployment of British forces in Estonia and Poland is purely defensive, but can the Minister assure us that this will be kept under review, and should it be the case, we would have the capacity to increase the number of troops we have placed there? Does he further agree that no one at all in this country or abroad should be in any doubt that if NATO invoked Article 5, we will respond if any of our allies in the Baltic are threatened?

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord is absolutely right. The enhanced forward presence is undoubtedly a major step forward in NATO’s deterrence posture. These are forces that will reassure our allies. They will defend Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland, another NATO territory, and we believe that they will deter Russian belligerence on an enduring basis. The forces are designed to be defensive but combat-capable in order to show the Russians that should they be rash enough to contemplate any incursion into the Baltic states, that will be met with an appropriate response from NATO.

Trident Missile Test

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 23rd January 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, I shall now repeat in the form of a Statement, the Answer to an Urgent Question given in another place by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defence on the test firing of a Trident missile.

“On 20 June, the Royal Navy conducted a demonstration and shakedown operation, designed to certify HMS “Vengeance” and her crew prior to their return to operations. This included a routine unarmed Trident missile test launch. Contrary to reports in the weekend press, HMS “Vengeance” and her crew were successfully tested and certified as ready to rejoin the operational cycle. We do not comment on the details of submarine operations, but I can assure the House that, during any test firing, the safety of the crew and public is paramount and is never compromised.

Prior to conducting a Trident test fire, the UK strictly adheres to all relevant treaty obligations, notifying relevant nations and interested parties. On this occasion, the chairman of the Defence Select Committee, the opposition defence spokesperson, and the chair of the Public Accounts Committee were informed in advance.

I can assure the House that the capability and effectiveness of the UK’s independent nuclear deterrent is not in doubt. The Government have absolute confidence in our deterrent and the Royal Navy crews that protect us and our NATO allies every hour of every day”.

That concludes the Statement.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, immediately on crossing the threshold of No. 10 on 13 July, the Prime Minister wrote four identical letters to the commanders of our Vanguard fleet, instructing them what to do in the event of the Government ceasing to function and this country being subject to a nuclear attack. That is the measure of how important we think our nuclear deterrent is.

With reports that a test missile launched in June failed, the Prime Minister was asked four times on live television yesterday when she knew about this and she would not answer. This morning, No. 10 confirmed that she was told about the test when she took office. Frankly, if the Prime Minister cannot face up and answer an honest question about the very basis of our nuclear deterrent, we must ask whether she is up to holding that high office in the first place. At the end of the day, it all comes down to character.

Today’s Statement says:

“We do not comment on the details of submarine operations”.


That is strange because I have an MoD press release, dated June 2013, in which we are told that HMS “Vigilant” was awarded a trophy for successfully completing a similar test to the one we are talking about today. More than that, the press release also tells us that the crew prepared for the test for six months. It gives the date of the test and tells us where it took place. It tells us that it was the 10th test in a row and how long our nuclear deterrent is at sea. Also, in the last hour or so, a spokesman for the White House has confirmed that the missile was successfully diverted and destroyed off the coast of Florida.

The Government’s policy of no comment on these matters because of national security is in chaos—it is a shambles—and deserves to be thought through all over again. It is nonsense. Previous tests have been filmed and broadcast. Why was this one kept secret? I do not wish to compromise our national security—none of us wants to do that at all—but can the Minister confirm that the cause of this failed missile launch has now been identified and resolved, and that Britain’s nuclear deterrent is fully operational?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Lord saw fit to criticise my right honourable friend the Prime Minister. As I am sure he would expect, the Prime Minister is routinely updated on matters of national security. This DASO happened before she assumed office but she will have been briefed on a range of nuclear issues while Prime Minister.

I turn to his point about tests made in the past. There is no set approach to communicating the outcome of demonstration and shakedown operations; that is decided on a case-by-case basis, informed by the circumstances of the time. Nothing should be read into the fact that the outcome of this particular test was not publicised.

The noble Lord asked about the test itself. If the premise of his question was to accept the validity of the weekend press reports then I cannot accept that premise. As I have said, this was a successful operation, following which HMS “Vengeance” and her crew returned to operational service for deployment on nuclear deterrent patrols, which was the purpose of the exercise.

A159 Wildcat Helicopter

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 9th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My noble friend is right. The drive to ensure that Wildcat secures export orders is central to the work that the company and my ministerial colleagues in BEIS are doing. We are working closely with the company to that end.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, in an uncertain world, Britain needs our Armed Forces to be well equipped, and they need the support of the men and women employed in our defence industries. If the noble Earl agrees with that, will he say what the Government are doing to ensure the highly skilled workforce at GKN is not lost to Britain’s defence? He and I both know we will need them in the years ahead.

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord is right about the need to maintain high-end skills in this country if we are to maintain our position as a leading player in the aerospace market. The Defence Growth Partnership is one element of this. We have a substantial programme of work already under way to encourage the growth and competitiveness of UK industry. Defence is playing an active part in the cross-government work on the national industrial strategy, which we aim to publish during the next few weeks. It makes sense to allow those programmes to deliver before taking a view on whether any further defence-specific work is needed.

Royal Navy: Frigates

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Thursday 8th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, we will be replying to Sir John’s report in due course. However, he has identified a renaissance in shipbuilding that is emerging in a range of regional companies where he has found an entrepreneurial attitude and an enthusiasm to embrace change. We should be encouraged by that. We need to bottom out those assumptions but we certainly respect the conclusions that Sir John has drawn.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, we welcome Sir John Parker’s report on the national shipbuilding strategy, but does the Minister accept his concern about the existing government policy? He said that fewer, more expensive ships are ordered too late and old ships are retained in service well beyond their sell-by date at a high cost, and that this “vicious cycle”—his words—is depleting the Royal Navy at a great cost to the taxpayer. Sir John urged the speedy construction of new ships, saying that the Navy is being depleted at a rapid pace. In response to my noble friend Lord West of Spithead, the Minister said that the Government would respond next spring. However, in view of the comment that spring could be a little late next year, can he assure us that it will not be that late?

[Earl Howe]

I assure the noble Lord that it will not be that late. It is true that the procurement performance of the Ministry of Defence, which lagged for many years, has improved in recent years, as we know from the NAO reports and elsewhere. However, we also knew that surface ship procurement was problematic. That is precisely why we asked Sir John to undertake his work in the first instance, and he has given us some very encouraging pointers.

Royal Navy: Harpoon Anti-ship Missiles

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 23rd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

It is important to understand the context in which a weapon such as Harpoon would be used. Harpoon would be likely to be used only in open ocean against frigates and above in a state-on-state conflict when our naval assets would most likely be operating within a coalition task group with a range of offensive systems at its disposal. There are ways other than Harpoon of delivering that offensive capability.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, one press report described Harpoon as obsolete, but better than having nothing at all; another said that the Royal Navy without Harpoon was less capable of fighting an enemy vessel than our Navy in the 19th century; and a third likened it to Nelson at the Battle of Trafalgar getting rid of his cannon and relying on muskets. That may be, but if we are engaged in a possible conflict, as my noble friend Lord West mentioned, how will the Royal Navy respond effectively without anti-ship missiles?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, Royal Navy ships habitually work in task groups with a range of offensive and defensive assets. A task group can be made up of a number of different platforms, including submarines, surface ships, helicopters and, from 2021, our new Queen Elizabeth carriers. In turn, those platforms host a variety of complementary capabilities, such as anti-surface warfare, air defence, intelligence and so on. It is important to look at the overall context.

Defence Contracts: British Steel

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 21st November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the ambition of Sir John Parker in his national shipbuilding strategy is for UK shipyards to be in an excellent position to compete internationally for procurement opportunities such as the fleet solid support ships. The emerging principles of the strategy should be applicable to those ships without the need to restrict procurement to the UK.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, earlier this year the Government issued new policy guidelines to ensure that UK steel suppliers compete on a level playing field with international suppliers. They said that this would feed into our national shipbuilding strategy and that the Government regarded British steel manufacturing as vital to this programme. On 4 November, when the Defence Secretary announced plans to cut steel for the first batch of the new Type 26 ships, he was unable to confirm that British steel will be used. Can the Minister be clearer: will British steel be used? Can he list the British steel suppliers that won contracts to supply steel for the building of Royal Navy ships as a result of the policy announced earlier this year?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, no steel has yet been produced for the Type 26 programme. UK steel suppliers will have an opportunity to bid for the work as part of an open competition. I believe that the Type 26 programme will secure hundreds of high-skilled shipbuilding jobs on the Clyde. In a wider context, it is worth noting that UK suppliers made a significant contribution to the supply of steel for our major defence programmes. The classic example of that is the Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers, for which some 95,000 tonnes of steel used was British—88% of the content.

Strategic Defence and Security Review

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 21st November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they are intending to review the Strategic Defence and Security Review in relation to maintaining the size of the army at 82,000 personnel and increasing the size of the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have no plans to reopen the strategic defence and security review. The national security strategy established clear national security objectives and the SDSR set out a funded plan to achieve them, all based on a clear-eyed assessment of the risks and threats that we face. Our energy is now devoted to its delivery, including the desired size of each of the armed services.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

SDSR 2010 reduced the size of the Army from 102,000 to 95,000. Three years later, in Army 2020, this was further reduced to 82,000. Despite paying Capita £440 million to take over Army recruitment, this September we had an Army of just 76,000 trained personnel. But lo and behold, last Thursday the Government changed the definition of “trained personnel” and tell us that we now have an Army of 80,780—5,000 more this month than we had last month. Do the Government have any idea of the true size of the British Army, and when will they get to grips with recruitment, as both the Navy and the RAF are smaller than they promised they would be?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the key question is whether the Army is configured with enough strength to deliver the demands that we place upon it. We are clear that it is. The noble Lord is absolutely right that we have a way to go on recruitment, but the figures are heading in the right direction—that is, the inflow figures are looking encouraging. The change in definition of “trained strength” is simply a reversion to previous methods, which included phase 1 trained personnel as part of the trained strength, with their ability to engage in homeland resilience and in basic tasks that we place upon them within the UK.

HMS “Ocean”

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 7th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I am sure my noble friend will be pleased to know we have already taken delivery of five of the F35s and have announced an accelerated buying programme to allow us to embark up to 24 of these fantastic fifth-generation aircraft by 2023. When my noble friend sees the “Queen Elizabeth” coming into Portsmouth, as it will next year, he will be very proud of the capability that this country can offer in terms of naval power.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, the role of HMS “Ocean” has been to provide the marines with a capability to deploy on land using landing craft and helicopters, and I understand that in future this will be provided by modifying one of the new Elizabeth-class carriers. Can the Minister say what these modifications will entail and how much they will cost? As has already been said, the Government have spent £65 million on refitting “Ocean” only to decommission it. They also spent £16 million on refitting RFA “Diligence”, our only at-sea repair ship, only to put it up for sale. That means they have spent £81 million refitting two ships in order to scrap them. What does this tell us about the Government’s long-term naval planning—that there is no long-term planning, but simply an endless waste of taxpayers’ money?

[Earl Howe]

I can reassure the noble Lord there is a great deal of long-term planning, as I witnessed myself at last week’s Admiralty board. He asked about the sequence of programming for the new carriers. The first of the carriers, HMS “Queen Elizabeth”, will enter service in 2018, after which she will conduct flying trials, initially with helicopters and then with the F35B Lightning II aircraft. We will deliver an initial carrier strike capability by 2020, but in parallel we will be developing our carriers to deliver amphibious assaults with Royal Marines and battlefield helicopters as well as to mount global counterterrorism strikes. I hope the noble Lord will agree that there is a logical sequencing programme in train.

Royal Yacht

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 26th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure there are many who see merit in commissioning a new royal yacht—for my part, I do not care one way or the other. However, I do care about the morale of our Armed Forces. The latest attitude survey revealed that 61% of all ranks serving in the Royal Navy say morale is low. Is it any wonder? We have no aircraft carriers; our Type 45 destroyers are plagued by technical difficulties and spend much of the time in port; we have almost twice as many admirals as we have warships; we are selling “RFA Diligence”, our only at-sea repair vessel; and the Royal Navy is short of recruits. Given this state of affairs, will the Minister reassure the House that if in the future there is some change of view on the Government’s part on this matter, there will be no question of the defence budget being used to fund the yacht, as it is a rather peripheral matter to defence?

[Earl Howe]

I am sorry that the noble Lord feels it appropriate to talk down the armed services, but I can give him the assurance that he needs.

British Servicemen: Vexatious Law Suits

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 19th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to prevent vexatious law suits being brought against British servicemen.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister has recently reaffirmed that the Government will put an end to the industry of vexatious claims. As a first step, we have already announced that the Government intend to derogate from the relevant articles of the European Convention on Human Rights in future conflicts whenever that is considered appropriate. We hope to announce further measures shortly.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

At the last election, the Conservative manifesto promised that our Armed Forces would not be subject to “persistent” legal claims that,

“undermine their ability to do their job”.

As the Minister said, the Prime Minister said in her conference speech that,

“we will never again in any future conflict”,

allow Britain’s Armed Forces to be harassed. However, the Defence Secretary contradicted her in a statement last week when he said that we will act to stop such claims only where this is appropriate. Our forces are subject to UK service law and allegations of criminal activity are rightly investigated. However, under this Government a whole industry of vexatious allegations against the men and women of our Armed Forces has flourished. So will the Minister tell us: is the Government’s policy the one set out by the Prime Minister or the one set out by the Defence Secretary?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, there is no contradiction. As the noble Lord rightly said, the vast majority of service personnel deployed on operations overseas have acted in accordance with the law and their training. However, where credible criminal allegations are made, we must investigate in accordance with our legal obligations. What we need to do is strip out the vexatious claims. That is why we are taking a range of measures, as I am sure the noble Lord is aware.

Naval Warships: Repair at Sea

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Tuesday 13th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The House will listen with great respect to the noble and gallant Lord, with his enormous experience. The approach now being taken by the Royal Navy is to upskill our own engineers and give them an opportunity to use their skills. That is a good thing and, to that end, we are working with industry to improve training in diagnostics and repair techniques, which puts the service man and woman at the centre of operational maintenance. I will, however, reflect on the points that the noble and gallant Lord has made.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, some would argue that the Royal Navy is the most successful fighting force in the history of our country, and high standards of training have ensured that it remains so, despite cuts in personnel, ships, submarines and aircraft. Why, then, on 4 August did the Ministry of Defence slip out an advert seeking expressions of interest and inviting parties to buy RFA “Diligence”, which it described as surplus equipment “in good overall condition”? Will the Minister say how it is surplus when it is our only at-sea repair ship? It should certainly be in good overall condition because we spent £16 million on the last refit. Can the Minister offer us any hope that his department will soon have a long-term strategic approach to defence spending and planning? It would make his life a lot easier as he would not have to keep coming here to defend the indefensible.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I assure noble Lords that there is a long-term strategy for the Royal Navy’s expenditure plans. The Royal Navy has declared that “Diligence” is no longer essential to its needs. Over 30 years, it has performed a very useful service to the Royal Navy, but it started life before the Falklands conflict. It is an obsolescent ship. However, the taxpayer will be getting value for it. The sale of “Diligence” will be managed by the Disposal Services Authority, which issued the notice to which the noble Lord referred.

RAF Red Arrows

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Tuesday 13th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, that will emerge when the decision on their runway capacity is announced.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, over more than 50 years the Red Arrows have flown almost 5,000 displays around the world. They have been used to recruit to our Armed Forces and they have acted as ambassadors for Britain. I read the statement from the Minister’s department about why it was thought that the traditional high-speed display was not appropriate at Farnborough and they performed a flypast instead. In response to an earlier question, the Minister said that in future we will look at these displays on a case-by-case basis. I hope we will because in the last figure I have, the cost of the display team is £6.1 million. That is a lot of money to spend on an occasional flypast.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the off-the-cuff figure for the cost of the Red Arrows in my brief is £9.7 million but there is a charge-out to event organisers in some cases. I will come back to the noble Lord on the precise figure.

Counter-Daesh: Quarterly Update

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Tuesday 24th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement and join him in paying tribute to our service men and women and their families, whose support and affection is constant and much needed.

It is important that Parliament is not ignored and is kept up to date by the Government when our forces are in action, wherever that is in the world. For some years now our democracy has benefited from the convention that government should consult Parliament when planning to send forces into conflict, and testing the opinion of Parliament in a vote in the other place. On top of this, we have come to demand that the Government keep Parliament informed whenever our forces are engaged in conflict. After all, has not Parliament just passed the Armed Forces Act, without which there is no legal basis to maintain an army in this country in peacetime?

Having said that, we recognise, of course, that at times there is a need for very tight security surrounding some operations. The war waged against humanity by this evil ISIL has shocked people around the globe. Britain, like many other nations, has joined battle with the evil in Iraq, Syria and elsewhere, and it is right that we have done so. The Government, for their part, have published considerable detail of our air strikes and are to be congratulated on their transparency.

In answer to a Written Question I tabled in March, the Minister said:

“Between 2 December 2015 and 14 March 2016 there were 36 UK airstrikes in Syria and 236 in Iraq”.

He went on to say:

“Among the targets successfully engaged by UK aircraft were oil facilities, which Daesh used to generate revenue to fund their campaign, and command and control centres”.

This is welcome news, but throughout our exchanges going back months on this matter, the Minister will remember that on this side we have pressed strongly for our air-strike capacity to be deployed to destroy ISIL’s oil-exporting capability.

The Statement today gives some detail of our successes in attacking oil fields in eastern Syria, but can the Minister say more about the extent to which our air strikes have degraded, and indeed destroyed, ISIL’s oil-exporting capability? More than that, is it true that ISIL is exporting oil through Turkey and through Syria in areas controlled by the Assad regime? If the former claim is correct, have we raised the matter with the Turkish Government? If the latter is correct, what steps have we taken, both militarily and diplomatically, by raising the matter with the Russians, whose influence on Assad is as strong as ever?

During our debate on Syria on 2 December last year, I said that tracking money around the globe is more of a challenge. Since then, we have seen the publication of the Panama papers. That issue, together with last week’s anti-corruption summit, which it is hoped will lead to greater transparency in global financial dealings, must afford an opportunity to do even more to cut off funds for ISIL. The Statement reveals that we have destroyed an estimated $800 million of ISIL’s cash stockpiles, presumably located in Syria. However, London is the world’s chief marketplace for financial transactions. I understand the need for caution here, but can the Minister say, even in the broadest terms, what success we have had in cutting off ISIL’s international funding for its evil exploits?

At the time of the SDSR, the Government announced massive increases in spending on cyber. Have we had success in employing cyber intelligence to track and cut off ISIL’s money and investments? I accept the need for caution here so as not to impede operations already in place, but can the Minister say what success we have had in discovering which organisations are being used to move ISIL’s funds around the globe, especially through London?

At the start of our debates on action in Syria, we were told by the Prime Minister that there were some 70,000 fighters not infected by ISIL or some other terrorist group, waiting to join us and our allies to defeat ISIL on the ground. What success have we had in engaging, collaborating and working with these fighters? I have no doubt that the defeat of ISIL will not be achieved by air power alone; it will need ground forces.

Finally, will the Minister say a little more about the peace talks? When my noble friend Lady Smith opened the Syria debate on this side, she stressed the importance of gaining a peaceful outcome for Syria and its people. The Statement today rightly describes Russia as Assad’s protector. Will the Minister say more about Britain’s role in trying to bring all sides together, especially in engaging with the Russians, without whom there will be no peace in Syria?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord for his comments and questions. He asked a number of the latter, the first of which was about access by Daesh to oil. We have no evidence that Governments in the region are buying Daesh oil, with the exception of the Assad regime. Regional countries, including Turkey, have increased their efforts to counter smuggling. The majority of Daesh oil is sold internally, within Daesh-held territory. There is no doubt that our international efforts, including sanctions, have made it harder for Daesh to trade oil. Our military effort with coalition partners has successfully targeted Daesh oil facilities and infrastructure. We have destroyed or damaged over 1,200 oil infrastructure targets and reduced Daesh oil production by around 30%.

Broadly, the military operation has enabled us to drive Daesh out of territory from which it takes tax revenues. We are militarily degrading its ability to earn revenue from oil and we are using international sanctions to cut it off from external sources of revenue. The issue of countering Daesh finances is regularly raised at meetings with officials and Ministers around the region, including at the recent Coalition Counter-ISIL Finance Group, the Financial Action Task Force meeting in Paris in February, and the Chatham House counterterrorism funding conference on 8 February.

I mentioned Turkey a second ago. We regularly engage the Turks on the issue of Daesh’s finances. I say again: there is no evidence that Turkey is purchasing Daesh oil. In fact, Turkey has taken very active steps to tackle oil-smuggling across its border with Syria, including by greatly increasing the number of border guards. The Turks have reported that 79 million litres of smuggled oil were intercepted in 2014. In the period January to October 2015, that had dropped to 1.22 million litres. So it appears that they are making a very considerable difference.

The noble Lord asked about our support for fighters in the region. Subject to parliamentary approval, the MoD is planning to provide the Kurdistan Regional Government of Iraq with more than £1 million worth of ammunition to equip the Peshmerga. The UK is providing significant support to the Kurdish Peshmerga to assist them in the fight against Daesh. We have already provided them with more than 50 tonnes of non-lethal support, 40 heavy machine guns, nearly half a million rounds of ammunition, and £600,000 worth of military equipment. To date, we have trained more than 3,300 Kurdish Peshmerga.

As regards the negotiations to bring about a peace in Syria, UN Special Envoy de Mistura has conducted three rounds of talks with the parties in Geneva, and this pattern is set to continue. We never expected the UN-brokered negotiations to deliver instant results. We are clear, however, that a negotiated political settlement is the only way to end the conflict, and we are working with our international partners to help to create conditions on the ground that are conducive to negotiations continuing. In its statement of 17 May, the ISSG reaffirmed its determination,

“to strengthen the Cessation of Hostilities”,

and,

“to ensure full and sustained humanitarian access”,

so that the parties can return to negotiations to reach agreement on political transition. We hope the parties will resume negotiations soon.

Yemen

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 11th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, it is too soon to say what involvement we might have, should a peace agreement be reached. The talks are facilitated, as I mentioned, by the United Nations, and we are working closely with it to encourage the parties to engage in good faith without preconditions and to respect the ceasefire which began on 10 April.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords,

“Information is power. It lets people hold the powerful to account”.

Those were the words of the Prime Minister on 6 July 2011, when he said that his Government were,

“creating a new era of transparency”.

The Defence Secretary, on the same theme, said in December last year that the Government were committed to transparency in the operations of troops embedded in other nations’ armed forces. Why did the self-same Defence Secretary say on 18 April this year that in future, Parliament will not be told when the Government commit British forces to conflict where they are embedded in and under the command of the armed forces of another country? Why is Parliament being bypassed?

[Earl Howe]

Parliament is not being bypassed. It has been the practice of successive Governments not to comment in detail on embedded personnel who are under the chain of command of the nation with which they are serving. However, we are transparent and publish figures on the numbers of our personnel who are embedded, so the transparency exists.

Armed Forces Bill

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Thursday 5th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, in moving that the Bill do now pass, I express my appreciation to all noble Lords, noble and gallant Lords, and noble and learned Lords who have taken part in what have been some very well-informed and constructive debates during the passage of the Bill through your Lordships’ House. I shall refrain from singling out any noble Lords by name, if they will forgive me, but I thank them all for their support for the Bill’s provisions and for the positive engagement that we have had on a range of issues of central relevance to the well-being of the Armed Forces and the service justice system. I also express my gratitude for the advice and support provided by my Bill team, which has at all times been first class. Finally, I pay tribute to our Armed Forces. We are immensely proud of their work, their courage and their dedication. This Bill is for them.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure that the entire House will join the Minister in his last remarks. We are always indebted to the Armed Forces of our country: we are free people because of their dedication and commitment.

I will be brief. When I spoke at Second Reading on February 11, I said that I had a feeling of déjà vu, having taken the 2005 Armed Forces Bill through the other place. I have to confess, as I did then, that I never saw the Act through to its completion because the then Prime Minister, Tony Blair, phoned me and awarded me the DCM—“Don’t Come Monday”—and I was no longer a Minister. So in one way I feel a sense of achievement having seen this Armed Forces Bill through all its stages in your Lordships’ House. We have had some first-class debates and many powerful arguments on the Bill, with notable contributions from distinguished Members too numerous to mention.

The Government have shown throughout our deliberations that they were willing to listen to the arguments on all sides. More than that, thanks to the Minister and his excellent Bill team, the Government have been willing to engage in discussions, and for that all noble Lords are in his debt. I believe that our discussions aimed at improving it mean that the Bill leaves this House better than when it arrived with us in February. That has been achieved not by contests, votes or amendments but by frank and open exchanges on all sides, involving colleagues all around the House. The undertakings given by the Government on a range of issues, from publishing statistics on sexual assault and rape to a review of support for those who have mental health problems as a result of serving in our Armed Forces, have made a real difference to the Bill.

On this side, we would have hoped for a similar undertaking on the matter raised by my noble friend Lord Judd in relation to providing an annual report on military service by those aged between 16 and 18, but I feel sure that we will come back to that at some time in the future, and we on this side of the House wish the Bill well.

Armed Forces Bill

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 27th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I fully understand the concerns that lie behind these amendments but I hope that my response will explain why we do not think it necessary or appropriate to press them.

The first amendment in the group, Amendment 5, concerns four offences: sexual assault, exposure, voyeurism and sexual activity in a public lavatory. The amendment would require a commanding officer to refer to the service police for investigation every allegation which would suggest to a reasonable person that one of these offences may have been committed by someone under his or her command. It would therefore remove from commanding officers the ability which they currently have in very limited circumstances to ensure that an allegation or circumstances are appropriately investigated without involving the service police.

It is the first of the offences covered by the amendment—sexual assault—and how allegations of that offence are investigated and handled within the Armed Forces which has been the main focus of attention in this debate. For the avoidance of doubt, I make it clear that the Armed Forces Act 2006 provides that a commanding officer does not have any role in investigating allegations of almost all the sexual offences on the statute book, including rape and assault by penetration. Allegations or circumstances which indicate to a reasonable person that any of these offences may have been committed by someone under their command must always be reported by a commanding officer to the service police. That is an absolute rule.

I also make it clear that commanding officers are already under a statutory duty to ensure that all allegations which indicate that a service offence may have been committed, including the offences covered by this amendment, are properly investigated. This means that, where a commanding officer becomes aware of an allegation of any of the offences covered by this amendment, he or she must consider whether it would be appropriate to report it to the service police. If it would be appropriate to report it, it must be reported.

The statute, however, should not be our only source of reference. The manual of service law makes it very clear to commanding officers that if there has been an allegation of one of these offences, they must take legal advice about whether it would be appropriate to call in the police. Access to legal advice is available 24 hours a day and seven days a week. The manual also makes it clear that there is a presumption that allegations of such offences will normally be reported to the service police. This duty on commanding officers to ensure that allegations are investigated appropriately means that it will rarely be appropriate—I stress rarely—for the commanding officer not to report an allegation of sexual assault to the service police.

The reason why the Armed Forces Act 2006 did not go further and require commanding officers to report to the service police every single allegation of sexual assault, or the other offences covered by this amendment, is that those offences cover such a wide range of conduct. For example, the offence of “sexual assault” makes any sexual touching without consent a criminal offence. “Sexual” can include conduct that may not in some circumstances be sexual but which, in the particular circumstances of the case, a reasonable person would consider sexual; for example, an arm around the shoulder may fall within the offence. The provision in the 2006 Act recognises that, given the width of these offences, there may be cases involving the most minor infringements that may be better handled other than by automatic police investigation. The 2006 Act recognises that this may also be the case for offences other than those covered by this amendment. For example, an investigation other than by the service police will in many cases be appropriate for disciplinary offences under the 2006 Act.

I hope that noble Lords will therefore understand that it is because of the very wide range of conduct that these offences cover that it may be appropriate, in limited circumstances—I underline that phrase—for commanding officers to investigate allegations. Those circumstances are, in practice, further limited by the fact that the service police can and do act on their own initiative—for example, where they are approached by a victim or a witness, where they come across an offence while patrolling, or where the civilian police have been involved and pass the case to the service police.

Other proposals in the Bill, in Clauses 3 to 5, will mean that in future, where the service police investigate an allegation of, for example, sexual assault, they will have to refer the case straight to the Director of Service Prosecutions for a decision on whether to bring charges and, if so, what those charges should be. That is a change from the current position, under which charges are instead referred back to the commanding officer. However, I recognise that, for some, our existing policies and procedures do not go far enough. They argue that we should use the opportunity presented by this Bill to amend Schedule 2 to the Armed Forces Act 2006 so that all allegations of sexual assault, and the other offences covered by this amendment, must be referred to the service police. In fact, the 2006 Act provides a mechanism for amending Schedule 2. Section 113 of the Act provides that the Secretary of State may amend Schedule 2 by secondary legislation, subject to the affirmative procedure, so primary legislation is not needed to make the change proposed in the amendment.

Against that background, I inform the House that the service justice board, chaired by the Minister for Defence Personnel and Veterans, has decided that the time is right for a fresh look at this issue, taking on board the arguments for the existing position and the views expressed in both Houses and by external organisations such as Liberty. The necessary work has been set in hand. My noble friend Lord Attlee made some very valid observations, and I assure him that the points that he raised under this heading will be addressed in the review. Any changes to Schedule 2 that may be needed can be made through secondary legislation, subject to the affirmative procedure. The review is likely to take until the end of the year, and I will report the outcome to the House in due course.

The second amendment in this group, Amendment 6, would create a legal obligation to publish data about allegations of sexual assault and rape. It would impose an obligation which is not currently imposed on other civilian authorities—although they publish such information on a regular basis. As noble Lords may be aware, in Committee of the whole House in the other place, the Minister spoke on this subject and made it quite clear that he wanted improvements in the data that we publish and that he was considering how best to publish the data as an official statistic. That is very definitely the Government’s intention. Given that commitment, I reassure noble Lords that the work to achieve this is well in hand. I have recently written to the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, on this subject, and it may be helpful if I share the information in that letter with the rest of the House.

In my letter, I explained that the Government aim to publish, by the Summer Recess, statistics about sexual offences that have been dealt with by the service justice system during the 2015 calendar year. The statistics will cover those cases where the service police have been the lead investigating agency and where the service justice system retained jurisdiction of the case throughout. To meet the standard for formal publication of these statistics, we clearly must put in place the necessary policies and procedures to ensure that the data are robust and consistent as we move forward. That work is in hand and encompasses three main components of the service justice system: the service police, dealing with the investigation of the crime; the service prosecuting authority, dealing with the cases referred; and the military court service, which lists the cases and reports on outcomes.

With regard to investigations, the crime statistics and analysis cell within the Service Police Crime Bureau will provide information on all sexual offences investigated by the service police. This will be broken down by service and will further detail the offence type, the gender of the victim or suspect, the location by country and the outcome of the investigation, such as whether the suspect was referred to the service prosecuting authority. To ensure greater consistency with Home Office police forces and assurance of data, the service police will have a crime registrar. The responsibilities of that post will include the development, implementation and monitoring of crime-recording policies, procedures and programmes and their application, to ensure high standards of data integrity and accuracy.

On prosecutions, the service prosecuting authority will provide data relating to the numbers of referrals that it has received for all sexual offences, which will again be broken down by service and offence type. The service prosecuting authority will also provide information on the numbers of those then charged with the offence referred, whether the person was charged with an alternative offence, or whether the case was discontinued.

Finally, the military court service will be responsible for providing information on the numbers of cases heard at court martial which involve sexual offences. This will again be broken down by service and will include both pleas and findings.

We intend to publish all these data on an annual basis. They will be supported by explanatory information to provide the reader with an understanding of the SJS and some context for the information. As mentioned earlier, we aim to produce the first set of these statistics by the Summer Recess, and they will be posted on the GOV.UK website in a format that is easy to read and print.

In the light of this and my assurance to return to the House on the matter raised in Amendment 5, I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, will feel comfortable about withdrawing his amendment.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, we have had a short but very good debate, with some very well-founded comments. The comments made by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, about confidence were very important. In my view, the best way to get confidence is transparency. The noble Earl, Lord Attlee, raised wider issues about the complaints covered by the amendments. He is right, and the Minister has indicated that the review that will be carried out will cover the kind of things that he is concerned about. We certainly welcome the Minister’s response to this debate. It has showed, from Committee to Report, that the Government have listened, taken on board the views of colleagues all around the House, and are prepared to act. They should have our full support, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, both these amendments seek to address provision for the care and support of members of the Armed Forces who suffer from mental health conditions caused by service. The health of our Armed Forces community is hugely important to us all and I welcome the opportunity to set out the Government’s position again.

Turning first to Amendment 9, as I said in Committee, the Armed Forces compensation scheme—AFCS—already makes awards for injuries and disorders predominantly caused by service, including mental health conditions. The scheme is tariff-based and aims to make full and final awards as early as possible, so that individuals can have financial security and focus on getting on with life and living. Claims can be made while in service or when the individual has left. In cases where a disorder is not in steady state, prognosis is uncertain or treatment is ongoing or not yet begun, legislation allows an interim award to be paid at the most likely level. This award is then reviewed and usually finalised within 24 months of notification. Where, exceptionally, matters remain uncertain at review, the interim award may continue for a maximum of 48 months. If the disorder has improved and a lower tariff now applies, no recovery of benefit takes place, while if a higher tariff award now applies, the difference between the interim award and the final award is paid.

The AFCS tariff has nine tables of categories of injury relevant to military service—and they include mental health disorders. While the scheme has time limits for claiming, there is also a provision for delayed-onset conditions, including mental health diagnoses. The Ministry of Defence recognises that, owing to stigma and perceived impact on career, people may delay seeking help. The practical effect of this is that if a person who has left the Armed Forces some time ago is diagnosed with a mental health problem as a result of his or her service and makes a claim under the AFCS, a compensation award will be paid as soon as the claim is accepted. As a result of the recommendations made by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Boyce, in his review of the AFCS, the Ministry of Defence increased the maximum lump sum award for mental illness from £48,875 to £140,000. This was to better reflect the impact of the most serious mental health conditions.

Broadly, the same mental health disorders are found in military personnel and veterans as in the general community—an exception being a lower rate of the most severe and enduring conditions such as schizophrenia.

Evidence-based effective interventions are now available for the common disorders, including PTSD. The treatments apply to both civilian and military contexts, with a high expectation of improved function, including return to work—especially if people are seen early.

In addition to the AFCS lump sum, the most serious conditions with likely limitations on civilian employability receive a tax-free guaranteed income payment—GIP. While in service, regardless of medical employability grading or being on sick leave, personnel retain their military salary. The GIP is paid for life and comes into effect on discharge from the services or from the date on which the claim is accepted. A lump sum of £140,000 attracts a GIP based on 75% of military salary, with enhancements for service length, age, rank and lost promotions.

Also as a result of the recommendations of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Boyce, we established the Independent Medical Expert Group—the IMEG. The group—a non-departmental public body—includes senior consultants and academics and UK authorities on specialities relevant to military life, including mental health. It advises Ministers on the scientific and medical aspects of the scheme.

The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Boyce, also identified the need for further investigation into mental health. The IMEG therefore conducted a review that involved literature search and discussions with civilian and military experts and veterans’ organisations. The findings were published in its second report on 17 May 2013. The conclusions and recommendations on diagnosis, causation, assessment of disorder severity and the use of interim awards were accepted by Ministers and subsequently incorporated into the scheme.

The House will be interested to know that this year sees a further planned review of the AFCS, which began recently. The review is currently in the stakeholder engagement phase and has been approaching charities, claimants and other government departments. This quinquennial review will consider the scheme’s coverage and levels of awards, in particular for those most seriously injured, including those with mental health conditions. It is expected to report at the end of 2016.

The second amendment in this group would create a specific obligation on the Government to have particular regard, in their annual report on the covenant, to parity of esteem between mental and physical healthcare. The Government are absolutely committed to meeting the healthcare needs of the Armed Forces community. The Secretary of State has a statutory requirement to include in his annual Armed Forces covenant report to Parliament the effects of membership, or former membership, of the Armed Forces on service people in the field of healthcare under the covenant.

The healthcare we provide to our service personnel, both at home and deployed on operations, is truly world class. Last year, the principles of the covenant were enshrined in the NHS constitution for England. This gives a commitment to ensure that, as well as those serving in the Armed Forces, reservists, their families and veterans are not disadvantaged in accessing NHS health services in the area in which they reside.

Since 1953, priority access to NHS specialist services in Great Britain has been provided for service-attributable disorders, with no-fault compensation awards. In 2009, this was extended to include treatment for any disorder where a clinician recognises a causal link to service. Priority is decided by the clinician in charge, subject only to clinical need.

I should also mention further work on mental health. For mental health disorders, stigma and perceived discrimination in employment can act as barriers to access and engagement with care. This is not unique to the Armed Forces but common among men. In 2004, led by the Health and Social Care Advisory Service, the MoD, UK health departments, NHS and Combat Stress explored features of an effective veterans’ mental health service, piloting various service models in locations across the UK.

The evidence showed that while some veterans were not comfortable with clinicians who had no military experience, others were equally anxious to see only civilian health professionals. What seem to work best are multifaceted services, including healthcare, social support, benefits advice et cetera, delivered in an environment of cultural sensitivity and empathy. The pilots also confirmed that best-practice interventions work, with high rates of improved function and a return to a full life with contribution to family, community and work.

As a reflection of these findings, and of Dr Andrew Murrison’s Fighting Fit report, since 2010, a network of veterans’ mental health services has been established in England and Wales with special arrangements for veterans also established in Scotland. The Armed Forces covenant gives a commitment that veterans should be able to access mental health professionals who have an understanding of Armed Forces culture, and NHS England is currently completing an audit of veterans’ mental health services.

In service, there has also been increased focus on good mental health and well-being, with emphasis on prevention and protection through a chain of command lead. Mental health awareness is part of a through-life training strategy starting at basic training, with self-awareness and with annual refresher courses. There are then specific courses for those with leadership responsibilities. The courses cover: raising stress management; reduction of stigma; building resilience; early detection of problems in self and others; and specific pre-deployment, deployed and decompression measures. Trauma incident management teams and mental health nurses are now considered essential parts of a deployment package, and mental health first aid training to service personnel is being delivered by SSAFA in collaboration with Combat Stress, Mental Health First Aid England and the Royal British Legion.

I should add that there is no evidence of an epidemic of mental problems in military personnel—rather, levels of the common mental health problems in regulars and reservists are broadly similar to those of the matched general population, while levels of PTSD in some groups, and in relation to combat, are slightly but not markedly increased. Where service personnel become ill, help is available in primary care with, as required, referral and outpatient support from the 16 departments of community mental health across the UK. When, rarely, in-patient care is necessary, it is provided in eight dedicated psychiatric units, again located around the country.

I therefore assure noble Lords that the Government are committed to meeting the health needs of the service community. We will continue to report on the provision of healthcare in the Armed Forces Covenant Annual Report, and our work to address mental health needs will be an integral part of that report.

The principles of the covenant are to ensure that the Armed Forces community is treated fairly in comparison to the civilian population. Parity of esteem is there to ensure that all health services treat mental health with the same importance as physical health, and it applies to everyone accessing NHS services, not just the Armed Forces community. For this reason, I remain firm in the belief that it does not need to be legislated for under the covenant.

I shall write to the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, on any of her specific questions that I have not addressed. However, given our clear commitment to support those who suffer from mental health conditions, and the tangible steps that we are taking, I hope that the noble Lord will agree to withdraw the amendment.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, this has been a short but very useful debate and I thank the Minister for his response. It is positive and is taking us down the right track to try and resolve these matters. He mentioned that the review of the Armed Forces compensation scheme is now at the stakeholder engagement stage, and I am sure he would welcome it if I passed on to the organisations that have been briefing me that they might have an input into this aspect.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, was quite right to point out that Amendment 10 was in fact proposed in her name, with me as a supporter, although that is not how it appears on the Marshalled List. I note that the Minister has invited us to his department on 4 May to discuss the Armed Forces covenant. That might be the opportunity to raise the issue that the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, brought up. It might also be an opportunity for my noble friend Lord Judd, who is no longer in his place, to come along and pursue these matters further. I do not wish to detain the House any longer. I am grateful for the Minister’s response and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, I will be very brief. When we considered an amendment very similar to this in Committee, I said that on this side we certainly welcomed the aspirations that motivated it—the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, tabled it at that time—but we certainly had doubts that it was the best way of dealing with reporting on civilian casualties. I fear that although this amendment is much more focused, as he mentioned, those doubts remain.

Of course it is right to report on civilian casualties caused by air strikes, but we should also be made aware of all civilian casualties, including those caused by the actions of ground forces. I can only repeat a key point I made in Committee when I stressed that reporting on civilian casualties is not an Armed Forces role alone but needs to involve the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Department for International Development. This is a matter for a cross-government approach that seeks an agreement on how to report on civilian casualties caused in a conflict in which our Armed Forces are involved. However, it must be done in a way that that gives everybody confidence, and such an approach must also ensure that we maintain operational security. That is important; I am not sure whether the noble Lord who has just spoken feels it is quite that important, but certainly that point was made, rightly, by the Minister in Committee.

We do not need primary legislation to achieve the aims of this amendment, but if the Government were minded to consult on finding a better way to embrace the aims of the amendment and to consult so that we could find a solution which we could all support on properly reporting on civilian casualties, we would certainly want to co-operate with them on that. However, this amendment is not the solution and we will not support it.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I begin by offering my apologies to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham. If I have been guilty of failing to fulfil an undertaking to write to her on the questions she raised in Grand Committee, I will certainly look into that as a matter of urgency. I must also apologise to my noble friend Lord Hodgson for the delay in responding to his letter of last month. I can, however, tell him that a reply was dispatched to him today.

This amendment would create a legislative obligation on the Ministry of Defence regarding civilian casualties following military operations, including sharing the details of any investigations with Parliament. This would be inappropriate for several reasons, not least that each military operation is different, so respective arrangements are likely to vary, depending on which forces are involved. It also risks prejudicing the operational and personnel security of our Armed Forces.

First and foremost, I re-emphasise that the Government take the utmost care to avoid civilian casualties when planning and conducting any form of military operation. Every care is taken to avoid or minimise civilian casualties and our use of extremely accurate, precision-guided munitions supports this aim. By way of an example, the authorisation process for air strikes is extremely robust. All military targeting is governed by strict rules of engagement in accordance with both UK and international humanitarian law.

I will make absolutely clear that we will not use UK military force unless we are satisfied that its use is both necessary and lawful. This tried and tested process brings together policy, legal and targeting experts—and, of course, the men and women of our Armed Forces are highly trained, including in the law of armed conflict. After a strike has been carried out, we conduct a full review to establish what damage has been caused, specifically checking very carefully whether there are likely to have been civilian casualties.

The Government have always taken very seriously any allegations of civilian casualties. We have thorough processes in place to review such reports and will launch investigations where appropriate. We will continue to consider all available evidence to support such reviews, and the Defence Secretary has made a personal commitment that the department will review all claims.

In the event of a credible allegation of a civilian casualty, an independent service police investigation would take place. The department has a process in place to inform Ministers on a case-by-case basis, but this has not been necessary to date, given that we have had no confirmed incidents of civilian casualties in Iraq or Syria caused by UK action. We are also committed to updating Parliament with information regarding any confirmed civilian casualty caused by UK military action in Iraq or Syria.

Warships

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 11th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

No, I would not. The F35 has been very carefully selected in order to be able to work from the carriers, and it will do so very effectively, as has been proved in the United States on its carriers.

[Lord Touhig]

I apologise to the noble Lord—I was distracted and did not see him rise to his feet. [Laughter.] I know I am not quite as vertically challenged as he is, but I am a bit short-sighted at times.

Following on from the point made by my noble friend Lord Reid of Cardowan, I am sure the Minister and I would agree that Britain needs a secure supply of steel for the construction of warships and other defence platforms. But in the event that we no longer have a British steel industry, and our country becomes involved in a conflict which makes it all but impossible to protect the seas around our island, thus cutting off the supply of imported steel, what is plan B?

[Earl Howe]

There are an awful lot of ifs there, and I do not necessarily subscribe to any of them. Indeed, as I have said, the Government are working very hard to ensure that we have a viable heavy steel industry. We have issued new policy guidance in the MoD to ensure we are addressing the barriers that prevent UK steel suppliers from competing on a level playing field with international suppliers. That emphasises the importance of increased pre-market engagement in particular, which in turn will feed into the national shipbuilding strategy, so I do not share the noble Lord’s pessimism.

Army: Helicopter Pilots

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 23rd March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I can only agree with my noble friend—these stories are damaging. At the same time, the Army is very aware of the need to retain and, indeed, recruit skilled personnel of this level. It has been careful to adopt a case-by-case approach when overpayments have occurred, taking account of people’s individual circumstances when they are brought to its attention; certainly, that includes hardship where necessary. What we are now hearing in general from Army pilots is that they like what they see in the package available to them, in terms not only of pay but how their skills are being used. Many are signing up now for five years.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, when I served as a Wales Office Minister, officials came in to tell me that a Harrier jet had crashed into the sea off west Wales— a very expensive piece of kit was lost but a more expensive pilot was saved. The point is that we invested more in the pilot than in the plane. I cannot for the life of me understand why the Government would be prepared to lose some of our most experienced and expensively trained Army helicopter pilots over this overpayment issue. I hear what the Minister has said and hope that the Government will use some common sense and, if necessary, write off this debt rather than lose these very skilled servicemen—or perhaps the Government will prove that my late mother’s advice to me when I was young was correct. She told me that in life, I would find that sense was not that common.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I take the noble Lord’s point about common sense. At the same time, he will realise that this is public money; it cannot simply be written off in bulk. Having said that, each debt will be dealt with individually and recovered over a long period. Recovery from serving personnel commenced in January, less those that have submitted an objection to recovery, and we have not seen anyone cite this issue as the reason for leaving the Army Air Corps since that recovery process started.

Refugees and Migrants: Royal Navy and NATO Interception in Mediterranean

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 7th March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for repeating the Answer to the Urgent Question in the other place as a Statement. It is right that we should do everything possible to help these poor people who have already suffered so much and now risk their lives again trying to make the sea crossing between Turkey and Greece, but will the Minister say more about our role?

The Statement said that the Royal Fleet Auxiliary “Mounts Bay” will be supporting NATO monitoring and surveillance tasks. Will the Minister confirm that “Mounts Bay” will be picking up refugees whose boats are at risk of sinking, if we encounter such craft? What will happen then? There are no international waters in that part of the Aegean. If we pick up in Greek waters, do we take the refugees to Greece; and is it the same if we pick up in Turkish waters—do we take them back to Turkey. Do we disable, impound or even sink the boats from which we rescue people? “Mounts Bay” will be supported by three Border Force boats—is it correct that we have just five? Where will the three for this operation come from? Are any coming from our own territorial waters? Are the other two vessels at sea or being repaired? Finally, will the Minister say more about the overall NATO plan to bring to an end this evil exploitation of migrants’ sufferings?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, for his questions. The principal role of “Mounts Bay” will be to gather information and provide it, for example, to the Turkish coastguards to help them intercept migrant boats in their territorial waters and return those boats to Turkey. That can happen straightaway. In cases where RFA “Mounts Bay” needs to come to the rescue of a migrant boat in distress, we are working with the relevant authorities in order to get to a position where we can carry out returns.

The noble Lord is absolutely right to talk about the origins of this crisis. We believe we need to take a tougher approach in order to stem the flow of migrants into the EU. While the NATO deployment is currently a support and surveillance mission—it is important to emphasise that: it is not a search and rescue mission—we are considering the practicalities and legalities of returning any rescued migrants to Turkey. These are complex considerations, particularly given the various territorial waters. Discussions are ongoing today at the EU-Turkey summit, and Parliament will be updated in due course.

We are not alone in the efforts that we are contributing. The NATO operation is under German command. The German command ship FGS “Bonn” is already in the area. It will be supported not only by “Mounts Bay” but by a Canadian escort, the HMCS “Fredericton”; a Turkish escort, the TCG “Barbaros”; and a Greek escort ship, the HS “Salamis”. The key thing will be to spot the migrant boats as soon as possible after they leave the Turkish shore, and preferably before they do so. That, of course, is the role of the Wildcat helicopter and the other helicopters in the area. I shall need to write to the noble Lord on some of his detailed questions about the exact location of the other British ships that I mentioned.

Armed Forces Bill

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Thursday 3rd March 2016 Grand Committee

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, we all agree that having a healthy meal and good food inside us is important for increased productivity and performance. Not for nothing did Napoleon say that an army marches on its stomach. In the Armed Forces, being able to perform at your best is paramount to the role of those we ask to serve our country. Labour introduced the pay-as-you-dine scheme for the Armed Forces in 2006. I cannot remember whether I started it as a Minister, but I was certainly around as they were planning it. As noble Lords will know, I left the ministry soon after that, but that is nothing to do with this piece of legislation.

If required, service men and women who are single and live in service accommodation pay for their own meals when not on active duty, meaning that they would pay only for the meals they actually eat. Under the pay-as-you-dine system, they are responsible for their own meals and making healthy choices, which the Ministry of Defence encourages.

There have been many concerns about the scheme. Some report that it disadvantages the lowest paid in the Armed Forces, as they often run out of money to pay for their food at the end of the month. Others are concerned that individuals may not be following a healthy diet as a result of choosing and cooking their own food, and some, as is highlighted in the noble Earl’s amendment, are concerned that pay as you dine leads to a decline in camaraderie, as personnel of all ranks are not all eating together any more and are instead eating alone or in small groups. I do not want to say more about these concerns at this stage, although I recognise they are perfectly legitimate and should be addressed.

I suggest to the noble Earl that if he is not successful in persuading the Minister of the merits of his amendment, he should press for the information he is seeking to be included in the Armed Forces Covenant Annual Report. That comes out every year. We would then not need primary legislation. It would mean it would be reported every year, people would see it, it would raise the profile of the issue and some of the noble Earl’s concerns could then be better addressed. The Armed Forces covenant is our obligation to the military, and it is likely that this issue will get greater attention if we were to do it that way.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I welcome the initiative of my noble friend in reminding us that the health and well-being of our Armed Forces are especially important. Pay as you dine was adopted by the Armed Forces in 2005, as the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, mentioned. It replaced the deduction of food costs taken directly from pay at source, regardless of whether meals were taken or not.

At the moment, catering is provided for under the catering, retail and leisure contracts. Our industry partners are required to provide a core meal at each meal service of the day. Food is charged at cost, and contractors do not make a profit on the food they provide. Core meals served at breakfast, lunch and dinner provide a nutritious and balanced menu cycle. Throughout the day, when taken at each meal service, core meals provide 3,300 calories per day at a daily price of £4.79. A range of alternative meal choices is also available outside the core meal price.

We believe it is important to give service personnel the choice about how and where they spend their money with regard to food. We fully recognise that sometimes service personnel like to take their meals in a different environment, to visit their local shops to choose what they want to eat and even to cook their own meal. We have no reason to believe that this has a detrimental effect on unit cohesion, although I would not seek to belittle that as an important issue.

However, we recognise that some service personnel are not good at choosing a healthy diet, whether they are living in single living accommodation or not. This is, of course, not a problem that affects just the Armed Forces—it is a reflection of wider society and there is much concern about unhealthy lifestyles generally—but we aspire to bring about change and we acknowledge the need for members of the Armed Forces to be better informed.

We are therefore working in partnership with Public Health England to produce some lifestyle guidance for service personnel. In parallel, the services are developing a new programme to educate personnel in healthy lifestyle choices, including diet and nutrition, and encourage a change in their behaviours. Dieticians, general practitioners, physical development experts and public health consultants are among those who have contributed to this work. I will write to the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, on ration packs.

I thank my noble friend for his interest in the pay as you dine system, but I do not believe his amendment is necessary. However, there is no sense of complacency here. Various assurance activities related to the system take place, including contract monitoring, site visits, reviews, customer engagement and assurance by single-service catering subject-matter experts to evaluate and improve the service provided. I hope that, with that measure of reassurance, my noble friend will feel able to withdraw his amendment, but naturally, if he feels that there is any more information I can provide him with, I shall be happy to do so.

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[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, I will be brief. This debate is very important and shows that there has been a degree of overlap between inquests into the death of an individual and inquiries into perhaps wider problems that have arisen in conflict.

I spent 27 years working in newspapers and publishing before entering the House of Commons. I know only too well from my time as a young journalist covering inquests how important they were to a grieving family who had sometimes lost a loved one in the most tragic circumstances. With that experience of observing, I am not sure that inquests brought closure to a family coming to terms with a sudden and unexpected death but I have no doubt that they contributed to a sense of healing and understanding that the family was desperate for—an understanding of what happened and why some tragic death occurred to a son, daughter, husband or wife.

To no other group is that more important than to service families. A service family worries and frets as soon as its loved ones are sent on deployment somewhere in the world to defend Britain’s interests. We all agree that we have a duty of care to those who serve in our Armed Forces but we also have a duty of care to the families of those who serve. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, made clear that this is a probing amendment, really seeking to find out more about the present way in which these things operate. That is important and this is a step in the direction. It is fully supported on this side.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I found this an extremely interesting debate and I thank the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, for his proposal and his interest in ensuring that the death of a service person such as described in his amendment, where that tragically occurs, is reported to a coroner quickly for thorough investigation.

I listened with care to the views expressed by my noble friend Lord Attlee and the noble Viscount, Lord Slim, putting the opposite case. Our view is that reporting a death to a coroner is no more than the families of those killed in these circumstances deserve. The first thing I would like to do is reassure the noble Lord that the Ministry of Defence works hard to support coroners in all investigations connected to the Armed Forces. I am very happy to outline the current system, and I hope that I can reassure the noble Lord that that system is working well.

As I am sure the noble Lord will be aware, in the United Kingdom, where the death of anyone—whether subject to service law or not—is believed to have occurred by violent or unnatural means, there are already requirements in relevant legislations in England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland for those deaths to be reported to the coroner or equivalent without delay. Naturally, the Ministry of Defence complies fully in the case of Armed Forces deaths, wherever and however these occur.

In England and Wales and in Northern Ireland, where the coroner believes a death to have occurred as a result of violent or unnatural means, the relevant legislation requires him or her to conduct an inquest. In Scotland, the procedure is called a fatal accident inquiry. I should just make clear that an inquest is an independent judicial inquiry conducted in England and Wales by a coroner into the facts surrounding a death that is sudden, unexpected or unnatural. Her Majesty’s coroners have a vital task giving certainty and reassurance to the bereaved and meeting the public interest by determining the facts of death where the circumstances were violent, unnatural or unknown. The Ministry of Defence will provide as much support as the coroner needs, and the Defence Inquest Unit has an important role in offering that support.

In recent years, a number of measures have been introduced to improve the inquest process for bereaved families of service personnel. These have included, in particular, measures to tackle delays in cases coming to inquest, including completion of inquests within six months wherever possible and flexibility to transfer investigations to another coroner. With regard to deaths of those serving overseas, there is a similar requirement, under existing legislation, for the authorities to notify the coroner. Once the deceased has been repatriated to England and Wales, the coronial process runs the same way as a death that occurred here.



The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, helpfully reminded us of the arrangements that applied in Scotland. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas, will, I am sure, be aware that until recently, not all service deaths in Scotland would have been subject to a fatal accident inquiry by the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service. However, with effect from 14 January 2016, the introduction in Scotland of the Inquiries into Fatal Accidents and Sudden Deaths etc. (Scotland) Act 2016 ensures that all unnatural or violent deaths that occur as a result of a person’s duties will be subject to a fatal accident inquiry.

Concerning the scope of a coroner’s inquest, this is determined by the individual coroner on the basis of the evidence available to him or her. Where a coroner considers that the deceased’s right to life was not protected by the state, then the coroner is required to widen the scope of the inquest—or fatal accident inquiry in Scotland—to investigate the broader circumstances of the death. The Ministry of Defence will do everything possible to support the coroner, whatever the scope decided upon.

I hope that I have explained that the legal framework that the noble Lord’s amendment is aimed at achieving is already in place. I listened with care to my noble friend Lord Attlee’s concerns and those of the noble Viscount, Lord Slim, about the utility of inquests into the deaths of those subject to service law. I hope that they will allow me to reflect on what they said and to write to them with my considered observations. I will, of course, copy my letter to all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate. With those remarks, I hope the noble Lord, Lord Thomas, will agree to withdraw his amendment at this stage. Of course, if I can supply him with any further information on this subject, I would be glad to do so.

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[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, more than 20 years ago, as a parliamentary candidate in Richmond in west London, I addressed a Labour Party women’s group, telling them that as a country we wasted a small fortune on educating girls and women at all. Before they could leap from their seats and warmly shake me by the throat, I went on to say that as a man, I had a family and a career but all too often women were denied this and had to make a choice of having one or the other. We spend a fortune on their education and then put barriers in their way to having a career and a family. For me, that is plain wrong.

Thankfully, as time has passed, more and more opportunities exist for women to enjoy the same lifestyles as men and to have a family and a career, but we are still far from achieving true equality. Where we can take steps to achieve this, we should do so. I therefore welcome the Government’s initial commitment to allowing women to serve in front-line roles in the Armed Forces. This amendment would prevent that and would deny a fit, well-trained, skilled and experienced woman combatant the same career progression as her male counterpart. This will always be a controversial and complex matter, as my noble friend Lord West pointed out, but if we are serious about the equality agenda we cannot deny women the same role that we offer men.

Throughout history womankind has played an exceptional and extraordinary role in our development, almost always against the odds and facing prejudice. Some would argue that in affording women this opportunity we are setting a precedent. Yes, we are—about time, too. I have no doubt that the first human who stood up straight and started walking on two legs was watched by those still on all fours, who tut-tutted and complained that this was setting a precedent. They were proved wrong, and I very much regret to say to the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, for whom I have the highest regard and respect, that I believe that his amendment is wrong, too. On Monday in the House we will debate a Motion to take note of the progress made in the United Kingdom in women’s representation and empowerment, 150 years after the 1866 petition to the House of Commons for women’s suffrage. It is about time we caught up—especially in the Armed Forces.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the amendment proposed by my noble friend would have the effect of excluding women from those roles in the Armed Forces, where the primary aim is to,

“close with and then engage or destroy the enemy in close combat”.

As I know my noble friend agrees, women play a vital role in the Armed Forces, with 70% of all posts being open to women. Women have made and continue to make a valuable contribution to current and recent operations, including Afghanistan. They are fundamental to the operational effectiveness of the UK’s Armed Forces, bringing talent and skills across the board.

My noble friend asked whether there was a target for the percentage of the Armed Forces who should be female. The answer is: yes, the Ministry of Defence has a target for recruitment of women into the Armed Forces of 15%. As at 1 October 2015, 10.1% of the Regular Forces were female, and that has remained stable since 1 October 2014. So we have a way to go in this area.

Women already serve in a variety of support roles with front-line units, including as medics, fire support team commanders, military intelligence operators, counter-improvised explosive device operators and dog handlers. Under the Equality Act 2010, the Armed Forces are permitted to exclude women and transsexuals from employment in some areas where it is necessary and appropriate to ensure that the combat effectiveness of the Armed Forces is maintained. However, under the equal treatment directive, the UK Government are obliged to review this exclusion every eight years. To that end, studies were conducted in 2002 and 2010. Women are currently excluded from 30% of posts in the Army, 21% in the Royal Navy and 6% in the Royal Air Force. The units of the Armed Forces that are affected by this are the Royal Marines general service of the Royal Navy, the infantry and the Royal Armoured Corps of the Army, and the Royal Air Force Regiment.

In May 2014, the then Secretary of State for Defence announced a review of the exclusion of women from ground close combat roles. The review was led by the Army and it was completed that year. The review achieved a considerably better understanding of the physiological considerations than existed previously, due to significant improvements in the accuracy of data available and the fact that the military female cohort is both larger and more representative than that available to previous studies.

While defence welcomes the prospect of opening further military roles to women, the findings of the 2014 review identified that further physiological research is required into the high physical demands inherent in ground close combat roles and the associated potential impact on women’s health. To lift the exclusion without doing this research could place women at risk of personal injury. The physiological research programme is now examining the challenges and risks of including women in ground close combat roles in order to inform a final decision.

I need to make it clear to my noble friend that the women in ground close combat roles review follows the principle that all roles should be open to women unless it can be demonstrated that the exclusion was necessary to maintain combat effectiveness. Therefore, in the event that the exclusion is lifted, any woman serving in a combat role will have passed the physical tests and training to be there in her own right. I can reassure my noble friend on one important point. The requirement to maintain combat effectiveness remains the paramount consideration. Training standards will not be lowered in order to accommodate women and this, in turn, will ensure that the combat effectiveness of ground close combat units is maintained.

The Prime Minister and the Defence Secretary are united in wanting to see all roles in the Armed Forces opened up to women. In answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, I cannot be precise on dates, but the decision on whether or not women should be allowed to serve in ground close combat roles is expected by the middle of this year. I hope that this explains our position and, in view of what I have said, I hope that my noble friend will agree to withdraw this amendment.

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[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, living as we do in a time when news reporting is constant, continuous and around the clock, the public rightly expect Governments to be the same, especially when reporting on conflicts in which our Armed Forces are engaged. Parliament and the British people have the right to be kept informed about not only what happens to our forces but also the impact our actions might have on civilians in the conflict zone. The Government currently report on civilian casualties in a number of different conflicts that we are involved in, including Iraq, Syria, west Africa—the Ebola response—and Afghanistan. That is the right thing to do. It demonstrates openness, transparency and proper regard for the loss of life that inevitably occurs in conflict, whether military or civilian deaths.

None of us who supported the Government’s decision to use air strikes against ISIL in Syria did so lightly. I have not spoken to a single person who did not have concerns that there would be casualties among the civilian population. To date, the Government have stated that there have been no reports of civilian casualties as a result of our air strikes. Having said that, I look forward to hearing from the Minister what guidelines the Government set themselves for collecting data and reporting on casualties, whether military or civilian, in any conflict in which we are currently engaged.

On this side, we certainly welcome the aspirations that motivated this amendment but we have doubts that it is the best way to deal with the issue of reporting on civilian casualties—I am grateful for the excellent briefing on this that I was given earlier today. For example, the amendment addresses the matter of reporting civilian casualties caused by air strikes but says nothing about reporting civilian casualties caused by ground forces. Often, ground operations are in play as well as air strikes. More than that, if we are to enshrine in primary legislation the reporting of civilian casualties in conflict, this is not the right vehicle to do so. Some might argue that reporting on civilian casualties is not simply an Armed Forces issue alone but has wider foreign affairs and international development implications. If that argument were accepted, we would need a cross-government input and approach to legislation to achieve the objectives that would be set out.

We certainly welcome the opportunity that this amendment gives us for debate and we have had some important and useful contributions. I look forward to the Minister’s reply and hope that we will have regular reports to Parliament on the conflicts, especially details of the number of casualties—even where there are none. That is very important. We welcome the opportunity for debate that the amendment affords but in its present form we would not support it.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Hodgson for introducing his amendment, which would, as he explained, create a legislative obligation on the department to report civilian casualties following RAF operations, including sharing the details of investigations with Parliament. I recognise that this is a probing amendment but I hope to show my noble friend that his concerns are recognised and being properly addressed.

I make it clear at the outset that the MoD takes very seriously—and always will—any allegations of civilian casualties. The Defence Secretary committed to review all claims of this nature. We have robust processes in place to review reports of civilian casualties and to launch investigations where appropriate, and we will continue to consider all available credible evidence to support such assessments.

It is important for me to emphasise that the Ministry of Defence takes all feasible precautions to avoid civilian casualties when conducting any form of military operation. All missions are meticulously planned to ensure that every care is taken to avoid or minimise civilian casualties, and our use of extremely accurate precision-guided munitions supports this.

We have a robust process in place to authorise air strikes that is tried and tested. All military targeting is governed by strict rules of engagement in accordance with both UK and international humanitarian law. Of course, the men and women of our Armed Forces are highly trained, including in the law of armed conflict. I should also make it clear that we will not use force unless we are satisfied that the use of force is both necessary and lawful. When we carry out a strike, we carry out a full assessment to determine the damage that has been caused, specifically checking very carefully whether there are likely to have been civilian casualties.

I can assure the Committee, lest there is any doubt, that the Ministry of Defence is committed to transparency as far as possible. We have been very open and transparent about the strikes conducted in Iraq and Syria. They are reported regularly online two or three times a week. These reports explain where the action has taken place and what effect has been achieved in the fight against Daesh. However, I hope that the Committee will agree that it is also paramount that we maintain personnel and operational security. This can include not revealing details about our targeting process, which may endanger personnel and our ability to operate.

Furthermore, while a requirement in primary legislation to publish data on a regular basis may be seen as a means of holding the current Government to account—and, for that matter, future Governments—it may also on occasions be a very inflexible tool which is soon out of date and redundant. As I have made clear, the MoD has clear processes and procedures to limit civilian casualties, and the principle of openness and transparency on this issue is something which the MoD and I strongly support. Where information is not disclosed, it is for very good operational reasons.

The noble Lord, Lord Touhig, asked about regular reports on Operation Shader, which, as he knows, is the counter-Daesh operation in Iraq and Syria. The Government’s first quarterly report on Syria was provided to the House of Commons by the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs on 16 December last year. The Secretary of State of DfID, my right honourable friend Justine Greening, provided a second quarterly report on 8 February this year. I cannot be specific about the date of the next report but it will be issued in due course.

I will write to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, on the particular question she raised and to my noble friend in respect of those of his questions that I have not covered. In the light of what I have said on this matter, I hope my noble friend will agree to withdraw his amendment at this stage.

Armed Forces Bill

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Tuesday 1st March 2016 Grand Committee

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, we have had a good short debate and I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part, but I have to say to the noble Earl, Lord Howe, that I am so disappointed with his response. My noble friend Lady Gould spoke from a lifetime of experience of campaigning on matters of this kind, and some of the statistics that she afforded us are staggering. She mentioned that 20 soldiers are on the sex offenders register. Is that uploaded on to the MoD website, in which the noble Earl seems to put a great deal of faith? I do not know, so perhaps he can enlighten us.

My noble friend Lord West of Spithead spoke with the authority of experience as someone who has faced up to this, not quite realising what a big problem it is, and learned a great deal. He said that we have to change, and that is coming from someone who has served his country heroically and has taken great responsibility for the people under his command. He believes that we really do need to do something about this.

I could not improve on the remarks just made by the noble Earl, Lord Attlee. There will be inhibitions and people will not take things forward because of all sorts of consequences that they might face, so it simply is not good enough. In his earlier remarks he also asked the Minister whether the service police are recording all complaints. I hope that he will be able to tell us at some stage whether that is the case. The noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, was spot on. Parents need to be reassured. Later in Committee we will be considering issues affecting youngsters under the age of 18 joining the Armed Forces.

[Earl Howe]

Perhaps I may answer one question raised by the noble Lord. I can assure him that being put on the sex offenders register is something that is published by the Military Court Service. The data are out there.

[Lord Touhig]

I appreciate that, and am grateful to the Minister for clarifying it. However, he spoke earlier about all this information being uploaded to the MoD’s website, and my point is whether or not that is on there.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, talked about the training of officers, but that is not an answer. Many of us have been involved in training, in all our walks of life, but practical experience shows that you need exposure to deal with problems like this, and the evidence suggests that commanding officers do not have that kind of experience and so are not always the right people. The noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, said that the United States is looking at this matter, so it is not just something peculiar to our country.

The Minister said that he was not convinced that these amendments were necessary, saying that their provisions do not exist in a civilian context. However, I think we all agree that the Armed Forces is not like any civilian organisation. When you join the British Armed Forces, you are joining an organisation in which you might put your life on the line—it is not like joining Tesco or Barclays Bank. The circumstances and living arrangements are different: they do not go home at 5 pm; they live as a community. We cannot really compare the two.

The Minister also said that some progress had been made and that there is to be a crime registrar. Is this another bureaucrat? How much will it cost? Why not just publish the information? If it is there, why not report it? If the information is being uploaded to the MoD’s website, why not put it in a report? It seems to me that this is another way of pushing things aside and not really facing up to the difficulties. We have a duty of care for the people who serve in our Armed Forces, and I am sure we all recognise that.

The Minister said that he had certain doubts about removing the CO’s ability not to progress a complaint. I think that there are real problems here. I am sorry that the noble Viscount, Lord Slim, feels that this might be perceived to be an attack on the chain of command. That is not the case at all: we have to respect the fact that we need a thorough and well-organised chain of command. However, if you are a “victim”, you are not in a position, as the noble Viscount was able to do, to call somebody in and get the CO sorted out because he has decided that he is not going to progress a particular complaint. There is going to be real disappointment that the Government do not feel able to publish the information that they are collecting. If it is on the website, why not produce it as a report? At the very least, I had hoped that the Minister would have said that although there are deficiencies in these amendments, the Government will go away and see whether they can come forward with their own amendment, having worked with people on all sides to make a better job if it, rather than just shutting it down. I shall not press the amendments, but I tell noble Lords that we will come back to them.

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[Earl Howe]

I apologise for not addressing that issue and of course I shall be more than happy to do so.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who took part in this debate. The noble Earl, Lord Attlee, raised an issue which, as the Minister said, was not quite in line with the intentions behind the amendment. Nevertheless, it shows a degree of discrimination because somebody served in the Reserve Forces, and that is something that we need to be put right.

The noble Earl’s second intervention was rather eye-opening. I do not know whether the Minister can come back at some stage and give us some more information about what went wrong at that time, but it is certainly a failure when people come back from an operation like that to find that they do not get help and support to return to their full-time employment.

The noble Lord, Lord Empey, made a very important point in his second intervention, and it is one that the amendment does not really consider. The Minister’s response would be very helpful should we return to this matter at a later stage.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, made the point that there is endless discrimination against reservists. Surely, where we discover this, it is our job to try to do something about it. That is why we are here. What are we here for if not to right a wrong? Is that not what Parliament is supposed to be about?

I am sorry that the Minister is not convinced about the merits of the amendment. He said that there is a website and that only 13 people have contacted it, but is it not possible for the Government to include something in the annual covenant report on this matter to highlight it? It may well be that 13 is the top number and that the problem is not as great as perhaps people fear, but under the surface, below the radar, there may be many more such cases, and if we highlight the matter then we will at least get to know. If we do not open this up and get some transparency, we will not know to what extent the problem exists or whether it does not exist.

Reservists are certainly facing difficulties, and I am full of admiration for companies and employers. Some of them are very small scale—I met them when I was a Minister—employing just two or three people, but they are prepared to co-operate and help, allowing their staff to serve in the Reserve Forces. I have nothing but admiration and respect for them. However, if there are difficulties, surely it is our job to do something about them, and perhaps the Minister will reflect a little more before we reach Report. For now, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I hope that it will not surprise noble Lords to hear that I fully share the sense of importance that they attach to mental health and parity of esteem in the way that mental and physical health are treated by our health services. Both these amendments seek to address provision for the care and support of members of the Armed Forces who suffer from mental health conditions while in service. This is something that we take very seriously, as I will go on to explain.

Taking first the issue of compensation for those who suffer from mental health conditions, I should explain that the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme already makes awards for injuries and disorders predominantly caused by service, including mental health conditions. The scheme is tariff based and aims to make full and final awards as early as possible so that individuals can have financial security and focus on getting on with life and living. Claims can be made while in service or when an individual has left.

The AFCS tariff has nine tables of categories of injury relevant to military service, and these include mental health disorders. While the scheme does have time limits for claims, there is also a provision for the delayed onset of mental disorders. The Ministry of Defence recognises that owing to stigma and perceived impact on career, people may delay seeking help. The practical effect of this is that if a person who left the Armed Forces some time ago is diagnosed with a mental disorder as a result of his or her service and makes a claim under the AFCS, a compensation award will be paid as soon as the claim is accepted.

Noble Lords may recall that, having been asked to review the AFCS, including the associated tariffs, the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Boyce, made his recommendations in February 2010. As a result, the Ministry of Defence increased the maximum lump sum award for mental illness from £48,875 to £140,000. This was to accurately reflect the impact of the most serious mental health conditions. In addition to the lump sum, those with the most serious conditions with likely adverse functional effects on civilian employability receive a tax-free guaranteed income payment for life on discharge from the services or from the date on which the claim is accepted. A lump sum of £140,000 attracts a GIP based on 75% of military salary with enhancements for service length, age, rank and lost promotions.

Another of the noble and gallant Lord’s recommendations led to the Independent Medical Expert Group, a non-departmental public body, being established. It advises Ministers on the scientific and medical aspects of the scheme. The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Boyce, identified mental health as an area requiring further investigation. The subsequent IMEG review involved a literature search and discussions with civilian and military experts, as well as with veterans’ organisations. The findings were published in its second report on 17 May 2013. The conclusions and recommendations on diagnosis, causation, assessment of disorder severity and the use of interim awards were accepted and subsequently incorporated into the scheme.

The second amendment in this group would create a specific obligation on the Government to have particular regard in their annual report on the covenant to,

“parity of esteem between mental and physical healthcare”.

As I have said previously, the Government are committed to meeting the healthcare needs of the Armed Forces community. For this reason, the Armed Forces Act 2011 already requires the Secretary of State to include in his annual Armed Forces covenant report to Parliament the effects of membership, or former membership, of the Armed Forces on service people in the field of healthcare under the covenant.

I was grateful for the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Empey, and I agree with his general point about managing expectations. However, I agree with him only up to a point in this context because I think that the healthcare which we provide to our armed services personnel, both at home and when deployed on operations, is now truly world-class. Last year the principles of the covenant were enshrined into the NHS Constitution for England. That gives a commitment to ensuring that those in the Armed Forces, reservists, their families and veterans are not disadvantaged in accessing health services in the area where they reside. Indeed, we have made several improvements, including: the provision of some £6 million a year to support the provision of enhanced prosthetic devices and services for veterans who have lost a limb as a result of service; the launch of the hearWELL programme to look at hearing loss among the service community; and the allocation of £10 million to address service-related hearing issues among veterans. I know that these are related to physical injuries; nevertheless, I hope that they show the appropriate intent.

With increasing awareness of the issues, we have taken steps to meet the mental health needs of our Armed Forces community. On this specifically, we now have a network of 16 departments of community mental health across the UK, providing out-patient care to the service community. When in-patient care is necessary, it is provided in eight dedicated psychiatric units. Additionally, the Armed Forces covenant gives a commitment that veterans should be able to access mental health professionals who have an understanding of Armed Forces culture, while NHS England is currently completing an audit of veterans mental services, put in place following the Fighting Fit report by my honourable friend Dr Andrew Murrison MP in 2010.

I can therefore assure the noble Baroness that the Government are committed to meeting the health needs of the service community, that we will continue to report on the provision of healthcare in the Armed Forces covenant annual report, and that our work to address mental health needs will be an integral part of that report. However, the principles of the covenant are to ensure that the Armed Forces community are treated fairly in comparison to the civilian population. Parity of esteem is there to ensure that all health services treat mental health with the same importance as physical health, and it applies to everyone accessing NHS services, not just the Armed Forces community. For this reason, it does not need to be legislated for under the covenant.

Given our clear commitment to support those who suffer from mental health conditions and the tangible steps we are taking to do so, I ask that the noble Lord and the noble Baroness withdraw or do not move their amendments—hopefully, reassured.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, the Minister rightly makes a very important point about the commitment that we as a country have made to helping people with mental health problems. The work being done for those who have served in our Armed Forces is first class. We have had some very good contributions to this short debate. The noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, made a powerful case on Amendment 14 and I am sure that she is disappointed that the Minister does not feel it necessary to include it in the covenant report. He says that he shares our sense of the importance of this issue but the point of my amendments, which have attracted widespread support, is that people who have served in our Armed Forces and have a mental health problem receive no compensation or financial support at all until after diagnosis. That can take five years; in the case that I raised, it was eight years. That is a time when people are trying to support their families. Sometimes they cannot work properly, so this can cause all sorts of financial difficulty.

Before we reach Report, can the Minister provide the Committee with statistics showing whether this is a widespread problem and how many years people have to wait before they get a diagnosis? As I say, my information suggests that in many cases they wait for at least five years. If you are in financial difficulties and cannot get back to work, that is pretty devastating for someone who has served in the British Armed Forces, especially in the reserves. I hope that the Minister will feel able to do that at the very least. Whether we return to this on Report is another matter, but the information would be helpful because then we would know the extent of the problem and whether there is a need for us to press further for the Government to act. With that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Armed Forces: Future Force 2020

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Thursday 25th February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what specialist skills have been recruited into the Armed Forces as a result of the Future Force 2020 programme.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, Future Force 2020 has delivered a wide range of specialist skills and capabilities to the Armed Forces. In the Army, this includes the creation of 1st Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Brigade and 77th Brigade, comprising integrated regular and reserve units capable of delivering specialist capabilities such as cyber, linguists and cultural experts. We continue to recruit the individuals we need with specialist skills and, through our world-class training programmes, train both new and existing service personnel to meet military requirements.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

As ever, the noble Earl comes to the House displaying a sense of calm and confidence, for which he is greatly admired and respected.

[Lord Touhig]

Truthfully. But I have to tell him that the Government have admitted that there is a skills shortage in Britain’s Armed Forces. Indeed, they spelled out their preferred solution for solving the problem. In a debate on the Defence Reform Bill in 2013, the then Defence Secretary, Mr Hammond, said that the recruitment of reserves was intended to add specialist skills to our Armed Forces because they were easier to recruit from among the civilian workforce. Can the Minister name another country in the world that depends on civilian trained reservists to fill the skills gap in our Regular Armed Forces? Is it still the Government’s intention to pursue this policy? If it is, how is it going?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, it makes absolute sense to look to our reserves to house some of the deep specialties that the Armed Forces are looking for. It makes sense because the reserves can deliver capabilities that can be safely held at lower readiness, which provides access to skills that are best developed and maintained in the civil sector or are not practical or too costly to retain in full-time military service. A good example of that is cyber, although there are others, such as language intelligence analysts. We are seeing the success of that policy. Indeed, on recruiting reservists more generally, we are on track to achieve our targets.

Vanguard Submarine Replacement

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 10th February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, extensive work is going on across government to incentivise people to enter the engineering profession. The noble Baroness is quite right. We are working not only within government but with industry to ensure that the attractiveness of engineering, in the nuclear field in particular, can be shared and that people who enter the profession can look forward to a rewarding career throughout their lives.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, under this Government we have seen a reduction in the size of the Armed Forces. We have no aircraft carriers any longer. At the time when the Russians are increasing submarine patrols by 50%, we have no maritime patrol aircraft. On top of that, the Government want to extend the life of the Vanguard nuclear submarines. I would be less than honest if I did not admit that my party had some problems with defence too; noble Lords might have been reading about them in the newspapers. But there is one policy that does unite at least the two Front Benches in this House, so will the Minister put a simple question to his right honourable friend the Prime Minister and say: “Dave, pull your finger out and damn well get on with committing ourselves to replacing the Trident programme, because it is the first duty of any Government to protect our country”?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I think that the noble Lord is being less than generous to the Government, who for the first time in a long time have increased the defence budget, with an extensive programme of equipment in train. However, the message that he sought to give is well taken. I tell him that we are proceeding apace with the successor programme. As I have already indicated, we have an assessment phase, the cost of which so far is £3.3 billion, as budgeted. That will go up to £3.9 billion in the design phase, including ordering essential long-lead items for the fourth submarine. I hope that the noble Lord will take away the message that we are not being slow off the mark.

Syria: Brimstone Missiles

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the noble Baroness makes an extremely important point. There have been many occasions—I cannot give her a precise number—when a strike mission has been called off because it has been deemed too risky to the civilian population. We always err on the side of caution in that respect.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, the House is indebted to the noble Lord, Lord Thomas of Gresford, for tabling this Question because the impact of our actions in Syria on the civilian population must never be far from our minds. On this side, we have consistently argued for airstrikes against ISIL’s oil-exporting capability, thus depleting its sources of funding. Can the Minister update us on this? More than that, I remind him that the Defence Secretary promised a quarterly report on our activities in Syria and one must be due any day now. Will he come to the House and make a Statement when that report is published?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, if a Statement is decided upon through the usual channels and my right honourable friend’s decisions, of course I am very willing to repeat it in your Lordships’ House. I am in full accord with the noble Lord’s initial statements and I am prepared to update the House on a regular basis.

Mental Health Services: Serving Military Personnel

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Thursday 14th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

As the noble Lord rightly points out, there has been extensive coverage and publicity on this very issue in the press in recent weeks, and I share his concern. The fact of the matter is, though, that it is not the Government chasing our armed services personnel. Every time a complaint is raised, we have a duty to investigate the complaint. It is not a matter of hounding Armed Forces personnel but rather of trying to get to the bottom of the complaint as quickly as possible. Indeed, many of these complaints have been found to be without foundation, but I share his concern about the behaviour of certain law firms.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

I am sure that the Minister and many other Members of the House will be aware of the excellent work done by the organisation Combat Stress. In a well-researched report published recently, it revealed that there had been a fourfold increase in the number of veterans who had asked for help for mental health conditions over the last 20 years. Its research suggests that this will continue. The good news is that Combat Stress has treatments that work, but it needs additional funding to deliver them. Has the Minister’s department had discussions with Combat Stress about this need for additional funding and, if it has, what is the outcome?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, yes, we do have regular discussions with Combat Stress, with which we work very closely in partnership, as I have already indicated. It is interesting that, while the number of military personnel assessed with a mental disorder has risen steadily in the past couple of years, the level of mental illness remains broadly comparable with that of the general population. Although it may sound strange to say it, I think the rise could indicate good news rather than bad news, in that the more we address stigma in mental illness, the more we encourage people who need help to come forward. I hope that is attributable to the better services that are available.

War Pensions: Uprating

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 11th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Statement by Earl Howe on 9 December (HLWS366) on the 2016 Uprating of the War Pensions Scheme, when war pensioners can next expect an increase in their pensions.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, the reason war pensions are uprated is to ensure that they reflect any increases in the cost of living. They are uprated annually in line with the consumer prices index—CPI—figure, which is the same measure the Department for Work and Pensions uses for uprating social security disability benefits and is in keeping with other public service schemes. Our approach ensures consistency with the measure of inflation used by the Bank of England. War pensions will increase when the annual CPI figure next increases.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

The Government deserve credit for enshrining the Armed Forces covenant in law, and I am sure that the entire House endorses the words of the Defence Secretary, who said in the latest covenant report that,

“we have a duty to ensure that our servicemen and women are treated fairly”.

Yet within days of his making that statement, his department published a Written Statement entitled War Pensions Scheme—Uprating 2016, although there is no uprating, and in fact war pensions have been frozen for two years. Does the Minister agree that war pensioners should be treated the same as, say, someone like me, who is in receipt of a state pension, which, as a result of the triple lock, is guaranteed to increase every year? As the Defence Secretary said, we have a duty to ensure that our service men and women are treated fairly, and surely none more so than those who have been injured while serving our country.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, it is important to make it clear that despite its name, a war disablement pension is not a state pension but a form of compensation for disablement and/or injuries caused by service to the country. It is tax free and payable in addition to the state retirement pension. Payments are set at a higher rate than similar disability benefits and most war pensioners who have reached retirement age will be in receipt of both pensions.

Syria and Iraq: ISIS

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Tuesday 8th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

A number of measures are being taken to ensure that smuggling of equipment and ammunition is blocked. The Syrian moderate opposition forces have been quite successful in blocking those routes, particularly between Turkey and Syria. More widely, there is an international effort to close down the sources of finance that Daesh has as its disposal. A lot of that work, I am proud to say, is being led by the United Kingdom.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, it is right to label ISIL as evil and murderous, because it is those things. But are we asking why it is? What research and studies are we undertaking to get into the mind of ISIL, so that we better understand its motives, and the many structures and layers of operation that enable it to recruit in countries as varied and diverse as Afghanistan and Britain, and to produce a blueprint to create a state? If we are to help rid the world of this ideology, we need first of all to know our enemy as well as he knows himself.

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord is absolutely right. The UK is leading international efforts to counter Daesh’s poisonous ideology. Our work with the internet industry, for example, has helped to stop the proliferation of Daesh propaganda. We announced at the UN General Assembly in September that the UK would host a new coalition communications cell. That cell helps countries that have previously lacked the means or knowledge necessary to deliver effective communication interventions against Daesh to do so. It is already helping to drive the coalition strategic communications to counter Daesh’s extremism and ensure, essentially, that no media space is left uncontested.

Royal Navy

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Thursday 5th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I am sure the noble Baroness will be aware that manning numbers are flexed according to whatever task the ship is assigned to fulfil. The bottom line is that no ship will ever go to sea unless it is fully manned for that particular task. For example, the Type 45 has a manning complement of 191, and for the Type 23 it is anything between 120 and 220. The manning situation in the Royal Navy is broadly in balance, although the noble Baroness will be aware of specific shortfalls that are most prevalent in surface and submarine engineer and warfare specialisations. There are a number of mitigating actions in place to address those issues.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

Keeping the seaways of the world open for trade and commerce is essential to the well-being of an island people like us, and means being able to protect our interests if they are threatened. I am sure the Minister and I agree on that. The head of the Russian navy has admitted increasing submarine patrols by 50% in the past two years and the chief of US naval operations has said that Russian warships are operating at a level not seen for two decades. He said that the Americans are debating whether to increase their naval presence in Europe. Are they doing that because they believe that Britain is no longer able to mount a response? Have they raised this matter with us? If we are asked to help, how many ships could we deploy?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am sure the Russians are in no doubt of the capability that the Royal Navy can demonstrate. The Royal Navy has a robust range of measures in place for detecting and shadowing non-NATO naval units which may seek to enter our territorial waters without prior authority. We continue to develop new detection capabilities to maintain the operational advantage that we need. The strategic defence and security review currently under way will allow us to assess the full spectrum of submarine detection capability, including the utility of fixed-wing maritime patrol aircraft.

Francis Report: Update and Response

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 11th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I apologise to the noble Baroness. It is very important that that does not happen. This was very much a matter that Sir Robert had in his sights when preparing the report. We have a certain amount of protection for whistleblowers at the moment—the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, referred to this—and the current Government have augmented that protection, not least through the way in which we have improved the NHS constitution. But Sir Robert is clear that we need to go further and, in particular, to ensure that those whistleblowers who find their position untenable in an organisation and are obliged to leave are not thereby blacklisted by the NHS merely for having spoken up. We think that the measures Sir Robert has proposed will achieve this but, more importantly, they will ensure that there is a better form of conflict resolution, able to nip concerns in the bud at an early stage and at a local level.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, I had the privilege of introducing the first whistleblower protection legislation when I served in the other place. I regret that it was not successful because the then Conservative Government opposed it. Richard Shepherd, a Conservative Member of Parliament whom I consider a good friend, was much more successful in 1998 when he introduced the Public Interest Disclosure Act, together with the support of the Labour Government. Sir Robert refers to that Act a number of times in his report. On page 9, he says:

“For a number of reasons this legislation is limited in its effectiveness … The legislation does nothing to remove the confusion that exists around the term ‘whistleblowing’ … The legislation is also limited in its applicability”.

He also refers on page 78 to suggestions that PIDA should be strengthened. I agree with him; the Act needs to be reviewed and amended. Will the Government agree to do this, because that would certainly overcome many of the problems that this report has highlighted?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, it may be that Sir Robert’s recommendations lead to legislative proposals. At the moment, we have no view on that. We want to consult broadly to seek people’s views, not least from all parties in Parliament. If I understand Sir Robert correctly, he was keen to achieve answers to these questions that do not involve legislative change and can be achieved easily, without too much bureaucracy. However, we would certainly wish to leave the door open if legislation is needed. In fact, there is one particular measure that we will endeavour to put through in the current Parliament, as long as we have cross-party support for it.

Autism

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 4th February 2015 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the answer to my noble friend’s question lies in more professionals being trained in autism and services supporting rather better the needs of children and adults with autism, and a lot of work is going on on those fronts. We are also asking local authorities to focus, in particular, on their own performance and to report back on the progress they are making on autism diagnosis, and indeed on other issues in Public Health England’s national autism self-assessment exercise. That process will draw out the shortcomings that exist in certain parts of the country.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, there is evidence that some 25,000 children in England with autism have not been thoroughly diagnosed. The National Autistic Society, of which I am a vice-president, found in a survey that 34% of autistic people had to wait more than three years for a diagnosis. What are the Government doing to speed up this diagnosis and to ensure that it takes place within three months of a referral, which is the NICE recommendation?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, part of this depends on the system working in a joined-up way between the National Health Service, local authorities and all the services upon which they depend. A great deal more training is going on, as I have mentioned. In December the Department of Health, the Association of Directors of Adult Social Services and Public Health England issued a new national autism self-assessment exercise, as I have mentioned. Much can be achieved, as we are impressing on local authorities, through low-level preventive support, and there are duties around prevention in the Care Act that local authorities now have in this area.

Meals on Wheels

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 19th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what estimate they have made of the number of elderly people who have received meals on wheels in the past year.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, the Health & Social Care Information Centre does not collect comprehensive data on numbers receiving meals; it only collects a subset of this group: those receiving meals as part of a formal package of care. I understand from the information centre that in 2013-14, 31,950 people received meals from councils with adult social services responsibilities as part of a formal care package. Some 29,605 were older people aged 65 or over.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, 220,000 fewer elderly people received meals on wheels last year than in 2010, when this Government came into office. Why?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, as I have indicated, there are a variety of reasons for this. The data collected by the information centre include only people who receive meals in their homes as part of a council-arranged formal package. They do not include informal arrangements such as the provision of meals at day centres or via daycare, or indeed those who pay the council for their meals, as many do.

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, local authorities’ funding through central revenue support has indeed reduced, but spending on adult social care has been relatively protected compared with nearly all other local authority services. In cash terms, councils have reported only a small reduction in money spent on adult social care since 2010, despite the tough public funding climate. It is up to the party opposite to explain where the money would come from—if it will increase local authority spending—given that the shadow Chancellor has ruled out increasing local government spending if Labour is elected at the general election.

[Lord Touhig]

Perhaps I may help the Minister. Could it be due to the fact that the average cost of a single meal has gone up 22% since this Government have been in office? How do the Government justify that?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, local councils do not have to charge for meals; they may provide them free of charge or at subsidised rates if they want to. If they charge, they must—as is the case for any non-residential social care service—follow the statutory guidance. That guidance ensures that, where they do charge, the charge is consistent and fair.

Care Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Tuesday 16th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My noble friend raises an important point, and I will take her suggestion away with me. As I mentioned earlier, however, a great deal of what this Bill will deliver is, so to speak, invisible to the naked eye, because it will ensure that those with lower needs will also be catered for in some way or another. I would like to hope that, for that reason, there will be less scope for challenge. I will write to my noble friend if I can supply her with our further thinking on that important topic.

I hope that what I have said will have reassured the Committee on these important matters. This has been a well informed debate. Our continued approach to engagement and consultation on the draft regulations will obviously allow us to consider many of these issues further, and on that basis I hope that noble Lords will not press their amendments.

[Lord Touhig]

Have the Government looked at the Deloitte economic modelling, which shows that support for moderate needs actually gives a greater return on the money invested? If not, will the Minister undertake to look at it before Report stage, so that we can discuss the savings that could be achieved?

[Earl Howe]

I know that my officials have looked closely at that modelling. I have not yet had an opportunity to look at it but undertake to do so. However, in all such matters a judgment is needed as to how money is best spent. No doubt there are good arguments for the Deloitte point of view, but, as I have already outlined, we think that if one has to spend money of that order, it is better spent in the way that we propose. Nevertheless, this is a debate that we can usefully continue, and I shall be happy to do that between now and Report, and also at Report stage itself.

Autism

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 17th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the findings of the campaign by the National Autistic Society, Push for Action, launched on 14 May. I declare an interest as vice-president of the National Autistic Society.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe)]

My Lords, the National Autistic Society’s Push for Action campaign coincides with the Government’s review of the 2010 adult autism strategy. We are already taking forward some of the campaign’s recommendations, and we will consider others that fall to government during the review, the investigative stage of which is due to last until the end of October.

[Lord Touhig]

I must say that I am encouraged by the Minister’s words. Four years after Parliament passed the groundbreaking Autism Act, this National Autistic Society report reveals that despite some progress far too many autistic adults are missing out on everyday support. A shocking 70% of adults and their carers say they get no help from social services, and this is not always down to money. Indeed, economic modelling by Deloitte shows that every pound invested in services for autistic adults with moderate needs brings a return of £1.30. When the Government review the autism strategy, will they consider providing an innovation fund so that local councils can provide the cost-effective services that all autistic adults need and actually demand?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, we will certainly consider the idea of an innovation fund during the course of the review. We have allocated some central funding already to support the implementation of the autism strategy, for example in commissioning a range of training products from expert bodies to support local areas and professionals. I hope the noble Lord will agree that the strategy and the statutory guidance that goes with it mark a great step forward for adults with autism in England. We now need to take an honest look at how it is all working and come up with further ideas and actions as necessary.

Care Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Tuesday 4th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, time and again in this House the matter of training of health professionals so that they better understand how to support and care for people with autism has been debated. Here, I should declare an interest as a vice-president of the National Autistic Society. We know that key professionals such as GPs and community care assessors still do not have a good enough understanding of autism.

Amendment 24, about which the noble Lord, Lord Rix, has spoken and to which I have added my name in support, if taken on board by the Government would at least ensure that the Secretary of State would be required to consult vulnerable people, including those with autism, their carers and groups such as the National Autistic Society, Mencap and others on matters affecting education and training that will be provided by Health Education England.

Only one in three adults with autism in this country told the National Autistic Society in a survey that in their experience social workers have a good understanding of autism. There is a well established correlation between the professionals’ understanding of autism and the degree of identification of needs among adults in that local authority area with the condition. Autism training can help ensure that adults with autism are correctly identified, and qualify for the support they need.

I recently served on the autism and aging commission, chaired by the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross. Professor Francesca Happé gave evidence about the difficulties of picking up on autistic people’s needs. She said:

“This is a group that doesn’t self-present, doesn’t come and seek services, because of their difficulties of social interaction and communication and we absolutely owe it to them to go and find out what their needs are”.

For that reason, we need well trained people to support them.

The National Autistic Society’s excellent document, Push for Action: We Need to Turn the Autism Act into Action, made a very good case. It includes a very good case study by the mother of an adult with autism. Her name is Chloe, and she says:

“We got to the point where Peter couldn’t live at home, for his own and our safety. After moving around between people he knew and staying in a B&B, eventually he got a flat but he still doesn’t get any support. Social services don’t understand autism and how it affects him. They’re not asking the right questions. They say, ‘How are you?’, and he says, ‘I’m fine’, so they come back to me and say, ‘He’s fine, he doesn’t need any help’. But of course he says he’s fine at that point because he probably is at that point”.

He does not trust them, so he says he is fine in order to make them go away because he does not believe that they understand or are able to help him.

“He had a mental capacity assessment and they asked him about managing his money. He told them that he was saving money for a motorbike but he doesn’t have any money. He can’t manage his money. He gets into all sorts of trouble”.

Chloe concludes:

“I’ve given up asking for support. Me and my husband now do everything ourselves … Now we have no expectations of what ‘services’ should be providing”.

That is just one example of the lack of trained staff having an adverse impact on the life of an autistic person and their family.

I hope the Government will ensure that autism training is included in the core curricula for doctors, nurses and other clinicians, in accordance with the commitments under the Adult Autism Strategy. It is absolutely necessary that vulnerable groups, including people with autism, are consulted about priorities for training so that decision-makers become aware of the gaps in knowledge and understanding among health professionals.

Ultimately, the Government must tackle the issue by including autism training in the core curricula for doctors, nurses and other clinicians, as they committed to do in the 2010 Adult Autism Strategy. People with a learning disability and/or autism have the right to the same quality of healthcare as those without. I believe that Amendment 24 is a good step forward in achieving that.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I will deal briefly with two of the amendments in this group. I will deal first with Amendment 11, which was tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt. The explanation for this provision in the Bill is essentially that it is a safety net to enable an extension of HEE’s activities in future, and to ensure that this has the Secretary of State’s prior consent. HEE can carry out other activities relating to the education and training of healthcare workers, or relating to the provision of information and advice on careers in the health service. However, we believe that to avoid undue mission creep it is perhaps advisable for the Secretary of State to be content that Health Education England is branching out in new directions.

Regarding Amendment 32A and the issue of end-of-life care, Health Education England will indeed support NHS England where it can in implementing its end-of-life care strategy, and the way that it shapes and reforms education and training.

Carers

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 14th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their estimate of the saving to public funds as a result of the work of unpaid carers in the United Kingdom.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe)]

My Lords, the Government themselves have not estimated savings to public funds as a result of unpaid carers’ contribution to care and support, although we are aware of estimates by other organisations. There is scope for debate about how best to put a financial value on this care but there can be no doubt about its huge value to those who receive care and to the wider community.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, I am sure that the Minister would agree that we owe a great debt to the carers of this country and, indeed, the Government recognise that because they have promised that families with a disabled child and in receipt of disability living allowance will be exempt from the housing benefit cap. However, according to the regulations, when that disabled child becomes a disabled adult, the child is considered to be a separate household from the parents who they live with. No matter that the disabled adult will perhaps need the same level of care that they received as a disabled child; the parents will then be subject to the housing benefit cap. Why?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the noble Lord will have to forgive me because I will need to write to him about benefits, which do not directly fall under my remit in the Department of Health. However, I can say to him that more young carers services are extending their age group to cover young adult carers, and there needs to be a proper join-up between the two. In some situations, it is true that the young adults’ needs are unmet; they can fall down the gap and not receive adequate support. A transition between children’s services and adult services should be smoother—we acknowledge that, and we are addressing this in the draft Care and Support Bill.

Autism

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Wednesday 5th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what will be the scope of the review of the national adult autism strategy, due to take place in 2013.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe)]

My Lords, we are currently considering how to deliver the 2013 review of the adult autism strategy and, in particular, a range of options about how best to secure the views of service users and carers. The review, which will take place from April to October next year, is an opportunity for the Government to take stock and consider where future action is required to realise the vision of fulfilled and rewarding lives for people with autism.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, the National Audit Office report on the adult autism strategy said that the health service needed to improve the training of key professionals who make decisions about a person’s eligibility for benefits and services. Can the Minister confirm that the review will ensure that all government departments will implement the strategy in full, so that autistic adults around the country can access the support services that they need?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, this matter runs across government departments. While central government can set the framework, and while it can work to remove barriers and increase awareness, which is very important, the real work—the delivery of lasting change—is for professionals, providers, voluntary organisations and, indeed, service users working together in collaboration. That effort needs to take place at a local level, which is why there is statutory guidance to prompt that action.

Health and Social Care Bill

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Thursday 19th January 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I understand that the noble Baroness is asking me to deliver a certain message to my right honourable friend. I am not quite sure what that message was, but if it is to do with the Health and Social Care Bill, I have to say that we need that Bill. We believe that reform of the NHS is essential if it is to be sustainable in the future. Every penny saved from this reform will be reinvested in front-line patient care. The previous Government had, as we do, an ambition to save £20 billion—the so-called Nicholson challenge—over the next three or four years. This reorganisation will enable us to contribute to that total. The modernisation will also move the NHS to a much more patient-centred system where good providers are rewarded for high-quality services. We are spending money on redundancy now to gain in the future.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, will the Minister tell us whether the report in this morning’s Guardian that the NHS regulator is proposing that a hospital should be credit-rated is correct? If it is correct, why are the Government pursuing this commercialisation of our hospitals? They are not supermarkets; they are places of care.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I have not seen that report, but clearly there is concern, following Southern Cross, as to whether difficulties such as those should be predictable in some way. I am sure that a lot of thought is being devoted to trying to avert such crises in the future. I will look at that report and write to the noble Lord with any comments.

NHS Reform

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 4th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I am grateful to my noble friend. In answer to his first question, it is likely that the period of listening and engagement will extend through the Easter Recess and beyond. The precise duration of the intermission has not been fixed yet because much will depend on the volume of feedback that we receive. While I have not spoken to the usual channels about this, I am still working on the premise that your Lordships’ House will receive the Bill prior to the Summer Recess. I believe that, if the House agrees, we can thereby reach the Bill’s conclusion within a reasonable space of time. That will enable us to adhere to the current timetable for the implementation of our proposals. But that statement does come with what I might call a health warning because we are clear that we want to listen to the opinions of everybody who counts in this, and it could be that the period of reflection may extend into the late spring. But no doubt I will be able to enlighten him further in due course.

My noble friend mentioned the democratic input at health and well-being board level. This is one of the issues that we will want to receive opinions about because I know there has been disquiet on this front. He knows that his party was instrumental in building into our plans the democratic element of health and well-being boards and the fact that they should be situated at local authority level. That was a very positive contribution made by the Liberal Democrat Party which has, by and large, been widely accepted. If there are ways we can bolster that democratic accountability without cutting through the core principles that we have articulated for decision-making in the health service, then we are willing to look at them.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, the Minister said that the NHS was in a healthy financial position and that the Government intend to increase NHS spending by £11.5 billion over the life of this Parliament. Yet, in the last financial year, the NHS had an underspend of £5.5 billion and the forecast this year is a further underspend of another billion. The Chancellor has said that he intends not to hand this money over to the NHS but to keep it in the Treasury. The Nuffield Trust says that this is a retrospective cut in health spending. Does the Minister agree?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the noble Lord needs to bear in mind that the forecast surplus for 2010-11 represents a very small proportion of the department’s budget. It is greatly to the credit of the health service and the department that they have managed to come in on the right side of the line and by a margin that, in the scheme of things, is not significant. I say that without being at all blasé about the figure of £1.4 billion. I suggest to the noble Lord that that represents good financial management. Yes, the money that represents the surplus cannot be carried forward into the subsequent year but that is not the same thing as saying that providers, for example foundation trusts, may not use their carry-forward balances. That is still possible at provider level. I hope, on reflection, that the noble Lord will not think too badly of the way the service has been run in the past few months.

Health: Sickle-Cell Disease

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 14th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I am sure my noble friend’s suggestion is a very good one. I do not think that the practice of carrying identification is by any means universal, but is it perhaps one that could be commended to the relevant patient groups.

[Lord Touhig]

One in 10 children diagnosed with sickle-cell disease will suffer a stroke. Unfortunately, a number will die. Those who do not will go on to have further strokes leading to disabilities and cognitive loss. The Minister talked about a screening programme. Do the Government have in mind any plans to get greater public awareness of sickle-cell disease by a public education programme right across the board among all groups in society?

Health: Care and Compassion?

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Thursday 3rd March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they plan to take in response to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman’s report Care and Compassion?.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe)]

My Lords, the department has asked the Care Quality Commission to conduct a series of unannounced inspections on NHS trusts, and will report on its findings. The department wrote to NHS chairs on 15 February to raise awareness of this report and to ask them to assure themselves that their own organisations were up to standard. Similarly, the chief nursing officer also raised the report findings at her February meeting with strategic health authority directors of nursing.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Touhig]

I thank the Minister for his Answer, which is very helpful. We in this country are blessed with a National Health Service staffed by very dedicated and committed people but, as this report highlights, there are instances of neglect and a lack of care for the elderly. The best way to prevent cases like the 10 listed here happening again is to ensure that everyone in the National Health Service, if possible, reads the report. It is available online at www.ombudsman.org.uk, but can the Government find ways to help to distribute the report so that everyone working in the health service can read it?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I understand and applaud the noble Lord’s reason for making that suggestion. I will overlook the issue of cost, but I am not sure that his idea would necessarily have the desired impact. What is needed here is for local leaders to take charge. That is why the chief executive wrote to every chairman and chairwoman in the NHS asking them to share the report with every member of their board, so that they can examine the services in their particular organisation and assure themselves that these situations are not happening on their watch. Nevertheless, I am certain that boards around the country will wish to take heed of the noble Lord’s suggestion.

Autism

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Tuesday 7th December 2010 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe)]

My Lords, yes, I believe that the planning guidance will be effective in delivering the strategy for adults with autism. This guidance has been developed with advice from health and social care professionals, people with autism and their carers and the voluntary groups representing them. Only by such a transparent, mutual approach can we achieve the vision that the Government have set out for adults with autism: fulfilling and rewarding lives within a society that accepts and understands them.

[Lord Touhig]

I thank the Minister for that reply. I am sure he agrees that, when planning services, it is important to know what services are needed and how many people need them. I do not know whether the Minister is aware of the National Audit Office report which has revealed that 80 per cent of councils have no idea how many people with autistic spectrum disorders live in their areas. Will the Minister therefore agree to meet our colleague, the noble Baroness, Lady Browning, myself and members of the National Autistic Society to discuss ways in which we can ensure that local authorities meet their statutory duties towards people with autism?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I should be very happy to meet the noble Lord to discuss those issues. Although we do not have definitive figures for the number of people with autism in England, we have commissioned a study into the prevalence of autism among adults to inform strategic planning at central and local levels to benefit adults with autism as they access public services. We have commissioned that study from the University of Leicester and it is due to report by March 2011.

Disabled People: Dementia

Debate between Lord Touhig and Earl Howe

Monday 11th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right. The national dementia strategy quite rightly recognises the need to improve the quality of care for people with dementia in hospital and that is identified in the new implementation plan as one of the key priorities for action. Of course, the main priority has to be to avoid admitting dementia patients to hospital in the first place, if possible. We should admit them only when it is strictly necessary and we should discharge them at the earliest opportunity. We have set priority areas for all hospitals to take urgent action, including appointing a senior member of staff to improve the quality of care for people with dementia and to look after the training of staff in hospitals.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, between a half and two-thirds of people with dementia never receive a formal diagnosis. That could be improved if GP practices, the mental health services and the royal colleges were to develop dementia care pathways. That was a recommendation by the Public Accounts Committee in the other place in 2008. What progress has been made in developing those pathways?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, progress is being made thanks to the quality standard published by NICE in the summer on dementia care. That will underpin the outcomes framework that we shall look for in the care of dementia patients. He is absolutely right in what he says: two-thirds of people with dementia never receive a diagnosis in the first place; the UK is in the bottom third of countries in Europe for diagnosis and treatment of dementia patients; and GPs do not feel adequately trained in this area. So there is a lot of work to do.