Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland: Energy Supply Shortfalls

Lord Teverson Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I will check but I do not think my noble friend is exactly right; I do not think the Republic of Ireland has any LNG terminals. It relies on the ample supply Great Britain has. We supply them through our interconnector pipelines. He is also right that there is a single electricity market in Ireland with power stations, many of them gas-fired, on both sides of the border. We will ensure that they continue to receive supplies.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, Germany has 89 days, France 103 days and the Netherlands 123 days of gas storage. I believe we have nine days. Could the Minister inform us what is happening with the Islandmagee facility in County Antrim, Northern Ireland? I understand that the Rough facility in the North Sea was commissioned last month. Is that now full?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The Rough facility is working again, which was a commercial decision taken by the operators. The noble Lord is right about the overall quantity of supply but, of course, the countries he mentioned have no indigenous supplies of their own. We are very fortunate that some 40% of our supplies come from the North Sea.

Energy Prices (Domestic Supply) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2022

Lord Teverson Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2022 Grand Committee

[Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)]

My Lords, I want to reiterate the point raised by my noble friend Lord Browne, that a vast proportion of Northern Ireland is reliant on heating oil and not on gas or electricity for heating their homes. That is the case especially in rural Northern Ireland, which is a vast area. Many of our elderly certainly rely on it, as do those who are disabled. The payment towards heating oil—I think £100 was mentioned—is totally useless and verging on an insult to those in such need, especially as they face the winter.

As the Committee knows, domestic consumers are very concerned about the £400 payment. I trust that the Minister will be able to answer this. The previous Prime Minister confirmed that the £400 energy bills discount would be paid to householders in November and backdated to October. I believe that the Chancellor has also reaffirmed that it will be received by families before Christmas. I heard one Minister say today that you cannot believe everything you read in the papers, when she was speaking about the names of possible Peers in a couple of years’ time. There is talk that the payment may not now arrive until January. Could we have some clarification on this? Certainly, two Prime Ministers and past Chancellors and Secretaries of State have confirmed that the payment would be made in November and at the latest before Christmas. Could we have confirmation of that, as it is concerning a lot of people?

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Browne, for explaining the details of the Northern Ireland energy market. I did not realise that it was quite so complicated, as it sometimes is here with multiple suppliers, and so on.

I want to make two points. The first has already been covered by noble Lords—the predominance of oil provision in Northern Ireland and how that is dealt with. Despite the strong competition, I suspect that the £100 is far from enough in being able to compensate those rural households for their energy costs.

Secondly, as the Minister will be well aware, there is a single electricity market in Northern Ireland. The grids are integrated. As noble Lords have said, it is separate from the British system. Are there any potential issues in relation to differential charging either side of the border? There may be no issues—

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

The noble Lord said that it was different from the “British system”. I think he means the Great Britain system. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom; we are British.

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[Lord Teverson (LD)]

I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness. There were no implications at all. I was trying not to say “the United Kingdom”, because the system is different from that in Great Britain. I thank her for that.

I think that I have made my point. I am interested to understand whether there is any issue between the two sides of the border in terms of what is a single market.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for bringing the regulations before us and the noble Lords, Lord Browne, Lord McCrea and Lord Teverson, for their comments and questions. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Browne, in particular for clarifying the depth and strength of the market in Northern Ireland. I was going to say that the regulations were not contentious, but there is a bit of contention and, no doubt, the Minister will deal with that.

The instrument defines the terms “NI domestic electricity supply” and “NI domestic gas supply” to scope the extent of premises that will be eligible. Specifically, this is to include some non-domestic premises which due to their similar metering and tariff arrangements would receive EPG support. Given there is no way for energy suppliers to disaggregate, it is difficult to disagree with this. I would be keen to hear from the Minister the scope of this impact, both in terms of the number of non-domestic premises and any additional costs incurred.

The Explanatory Notes use places of worship as an example, as did the Minister, but what other types of non-domestic premises are included? Perhaps we could turn to the experts from Northern Ireland to help us with this.

I would like to raise an issue that was brought up in the other place during the debate on this instrument on Monday. There is a scheme document linked to this instrument, headed “Establishment of domestic electricity price reduction scheme for Northern Ireland”, which in Schedule 5 states that the Government will require suppliers of electricity to hand all meter data to the Government for the purposes of regulating and discussing the domestic supply scheme.

This data will encompass many things; it will be held by the Government for 10 years and can be shared with other departments, law enforcement agencies, regulatory bodies and others. While it is not pertinent to today’s instrument, this is the same for rest of the United Kingdom in the respective document. This appears to be a breach of the data access and privacy framework which was produced when smart meters were first rolled out. It states that smart meter data is the property of the customer and can be disclosed to third parties, including the Government, only with their consent. I understand the Minister in the other place committed to write to Dr Alan Whitehead MP on this issue and I would appreciate it if the Minister could ensure that I receive the same response.

Energy Bill Relief Scheme Regulations 2022

Lord Teverson Excerpts

Wednesday 16th November 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I take this opportunity to congratulate the Government and my noble friend the Minister on bringing through the enabling Act and in particular the regulations before us this afternoon. I commend the support the Government are giving both to non-domestic and domestic customers. If my noble friend will permit, I have a number of questions I would like to press him on, but that does not detract from my overall support for the scheme.

The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee prepared a very helpful brief, which states that the instruments are made to delegate powers to enable the Secretary of State to make technical rules for the effective operation of the EBRS, including rules for the calculation and recovery of accounts. Paragraph 7.1 of the helpful Explanatory Memorandum appended to the regulations states that the Secretary of State

“can reimburse licensed non-domestic energy suppliers applying price reductions on customers’ bills representing the wholesale energy price element of the bill. This will allow non-domestic customers to receive the benefit of such a discount.”

I welcome what my noble friend said about landlords passing this on to those who operate the businesses; that will be very welcome indeed.

Paragraph 7.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum say that the Secretary of State is required,

“within 14 days of the schemes’ introduction date, to make rules about further reductions”.

The rules will apply to the supply of gas and electricity for the period referred to by my noble friend. Will there be an opportunity for the Committee or the House to see them in advance and to scrutinise them? Will they be laid before the House? I realise they are technical rules, but it would be helpful for us to see them.

Paragraph 11.1 refers to stakeholders, individual organisations and so forth. I would like to make plea for the plight of publicans in pubs, restaurants, bars and cafés, who will benefit from this scheme until the end of March. It is particularly welcome in the run-up to Christmas, and in January and February, which tend to be slow months, as it recognises their need to incur high energy and electricity costs to make a welcoming atmosphere. My noble friend is probably not in a position to tell us today—we will have to wait until tomorrow or even the March Budget—what will happen after this scheme expires. I do not want to be like Oliver Twist and ask for more, but it would be helpful for businesses to know what the future will be. My noble friend has rightly identified that the regulations and the enabling legislation under which they fall are intended to prevent closures and job losses resulting from high wholesale energy costs, which we know are largely global in nature.

I also make a plea for non-domestic customers and businesses that operate in rural areas. The Minister and I are from the north-east of England. I grew up there and represented part of North Yorkshire for 18 years in the other place. In about a week’s time, we will have the first anniversary of Storm Arwen, when a number of businesses closed. Those who were not fortunate enough to have generators were heavily penalised. As part of learning from that, I met our local director of the NFU, which is keen to work with the Government and other bodies to see how we can enhance infrastructure and the grid in rural areas where we are heavily dependent on off-grid fuels such as oil, solid fuel and LPG, and to look at what prospect there might be for developing those off-grid resources. It is basically about lessons learned from Storm Arwen, in what was a very difficult time.

These regulations were debated in the other place by the Delegated Legislation Committee on Monday 14 November. It was asked then why there had not been a greater assessment of the impact of administration and resource costs on Ofgem, which will be heavily involved in monitoring compliance. Has BEIS looked at that? Will it have time to do so in the next few weeks? Secondly, if a company has outstanding debt on bills of greater than 28 days, it effectively does not qualify. For what reason has that benchmark been chosen? With those few questions, I wish Godspeed to the regulations and congratulate my noble friend and his department on the work they have done in this regard, for both non-domestic and domestic customers.

I have one further question, which relates more to domestic customers. What I would identify as sharp practices are being developed by electricity providers on the back of the Government’s generosity in this regard. When a customer is in credit, their direct debit payments are going up, which I can see no rhyme or reason for. If a customer is in credit, why on earth would you seek to increase their direct debit, particularly when the Government have lent the generous help that they have? Another such practice happens when, no matter how many meter readings they may give, the customer ends up with an estimated bill. Again, that seems to be a way of bumping up the price. I would welcome any response that my noble friend has to what seem to be developing sharp practices.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, we on our side very much welcome this relief for businesses and commercial operations with regard to energy prices. Again, I very much echo the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, on the fact that the evaluation does not take place until three months. I understand the issue of how you would evaluate it before that, but there is no obligation to put forward further plans until the end of the scheme, after six months. I would be interested to hear an answer on that.

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[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a very good point. As I said, we will conduct a review as soon as possible with the aim that it will be published before the end of the year. That will inform businesses of where we hope to go with the scheme after its expiry in April. That applies not just to businesses in Northern Ireland but to small businesses across the whole United Kingdom.

In conclusion, the Government remain committed to ensuring that consumers receive help with the rising cost of living and with energy costs. These regulations are vital to ensuring that support is delivered this coming winter. I commend this draft instrument to the Committee.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his reply to my point on fraud but, as he has not replied on holiday home lets, I assume that, if they are on business rates, they will get this benefit.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

There are two aspects to this support. The price guarantee applies to domestic consumers and the EBRS applies to business consumers. If it is registered as a domestic premise, the home owner would receive this support in the same way as other owners of multiple homes would receive it—under the domestic scheme. If it is registered as a business, again they would receive a price discount. That applies to all businesses across the UK, with a few exceptions for some generators.

I take the noble Lord’s point about how this will probably go down badly in the areas concerned, but the scheme was rolled out at pace. We saw similar effects with the Bounce Back Loan Scheme during the pandemic. By the very nature of these schemes, if you do not spend years putting the scheme in place, going through every detail and exempting certain groups that might perhaps be undeserving of the support, there will be cases that most people regard as slightly unfair. That is in the nature of rolling something out quickly. We needed to get the support out quickly, which is why this has been done that way.

Climate Change (Targeted Greenhouse Gases) Order 2022

Lord Teverson Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, this order was laid before the House on 19 October. It will amend the Climate Change Act 2008, expanding the definition of greenhouse gases under the Act to include nitrogen trifluoride, which I will refer to as NF₃. The order will make NF₃ a targeted greenhouse gas. This means that NF₃ emissions will be included within the scope of emissions presented to Parliament annually, and within scope of the full accounting period for the UK’s third and subsequent carbon budgets.

Tackling climate change is, of course, of the utmost importance to this Government. Internationally, we have taken a leading role to promote action through COP 26 and have considerable achievements to reflect on. Through our leadership, we delivered the Glasgow climate pact, wherein 197 countries reached a consensus on the need to urgently tackle climate change. Net-zero commitments now cover 90% of the world’s economy—up from 30% two years ago, when the UK took on the COP 26 presidency. We have continued to champion the need for action in the COP 27 conference taking place as we speak and will strive to ensure that the historic Glasgow climate pact is at the forefront of international co-operation, keeping alive the ambition of limiting the rise in global temperature to 1.5 degrees.

Domestically, we have achieved a great deal on our road to net zero already. Between 1990 and 2019, we grew our economy by 76% and cut our emissions by 44%, decarbonising faster than any other G7 country. Our domestic target is also consistent with the Paris agreement temperature goal to limit global warming to well below 2 degrees centigrade and pursue efforts towards 1.5 degrees centigrade.

Our legally binding carbon budgets are in line with the latest science and put us on a trajectory to achieve net zero by 2050. In June last year, the Government set the sixth carbon budget, for the first time incorporating the UK’s share of international aviation and shipping emissions, an important part of the Government’s decarbonisation efforts that will allow for these emissions to be accounted for consistently.

I will take a moment to talk through what this order will do. The Climate Change Act 2008 was the first of its kind and made the UK the first country to introduce a legally binding long-term emissions reduction target. This order updates the Act by introducing nitrogen trifluoride as the seventh targeted greenhouse gas under the Act. NF₃, primarily used in the production of electronics, is considered a potent contributor to climate change, and estimated to be 17,000 times more potent than carbon dioxide. This order will rightly introduce new duties on the Secretary of State to report on these harmful emissions.

Happily, I can assure the House that NF₃ emissions have been captured in UK greenhouse gas emissions national statistics and international reporting to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change since 2015. NF₃ is also in scope of the UK’s nationally determined contribution under the Paris Agreement. This order will, however, ensure that the Climate Change Act and statutory reporting pursuant to the Act are aligned with our greenhouse gas inventories and international reporting practice, and that our domestic targets continue to align with the latest science.

I assure the House that this statutory instrument does not put our domestic targets at risk. Representing less than 0.0001% of total UK territorial emissions in 2020, this inclusion in carbon budgets does not make a material difference to the challenge of meeting them and can therefore be tackled without reviewing the levels of the legislated targets.

I place on record my thanks to the Committee on Climate Change for its advice in this regard. It similarly holds the view that the addition of NF₃ to the Act will not jeopardise our ability to meet our carbon budgets and net-zero target. Recognising the important role of measuring and reporting energy use and carbon data, the Government introduced a streamlined energy and carbon reporting framework on 1 April 2019. This reporting framework sets a light-touch reporting regime, setting out minimum mandatory emissions reporting requirements for all quoted companies and large businesses, which will, as a result of this order, now also cover NF₃ emissions. Due to the very low use of NF₃ in UK production, and as existing reporting methodologies, such as the widely used greenhouse gas protocol, already require NF₃ to be included in companies’ inventories, I assure the House that the impact on business from this instrument coming into force will also be minimal.

I place on record my thanks to the Administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, for their support during the consultation process in bringing forward this legislation. I am grateful to the Welsh Minister for Climate Change, who has also tabled a statutory instrument consent memorandum before the Senedd, stating that this order is the most practicable legislative vehicle for the provision in question to apply in Wales. My officials will continue to engage with their colleagues in the Welsh Government and I hope that, by the time this order leaves the other place, an SI consent Motion will have been passed by the Senedd.

The Government want to ensure that, as we transition the economy to net zero, the Climate Change Act evolves with the necessary developments in science and our international commitments. Therefore, I commend this order to the House.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I have to admit that I never came across nitrogen trifluoride in my chemistry lessons, or at all before I read this SI. Although I very much accept the Minister saying that we have very small emissions in this area, as he says, it is some 17,000 times more potent than CO₂. It also lasts in the atmosphere for something like 500 years.

What I do not understand is how we measure these emissions. They are used in LCD screens. Although we do not manufacture many of those in this country, can the Minister explain whether this gas escapes in disposal of those electronic items, and whether we then measure that? Our consumption of those products is much greater than our production, so I would be interested to understand how that works and whether we have a bigger problem than he stated. I am not saying that this is the case but am trying to understand. If it is the case, do the Government have any means to manage this? Also, the SI mentions pensions. The Minister did not mention anything about this. Why are the regulations on those coming along later, as I understand it from the Explanatory Memorandum, rather than now?

The major thing that I want to understand, which the Minister mentioned, is the contradiction in the context given in the Explanatory Memorandum, paragraph 6.4 of which says:

“As of 2021, all international reporting practice has been to include NF₃ as a targeted greenhouse gas.”


However, paragraph 7.2 says:

“In 2013, the UNFCCC mandated the inclusion of NF₃ in all national greenhouse gas inventories”.


Therefore, I am rather confused as to whether this all happened in 2021 and will be reported in 2023 or whether we have done all this since 2013. It would be useful to understand that.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing this statutory instrument, and send apologies from my noble friend Lady Blake, who was due to be here but is currently supervising the birth of her latest grandchild—good luck with that.

The instrument extends the scope of emissions captured and reported under the Climate Change Act 2008 by including nitrogen trifluoride—I had not heard of it either, until yesterday when preparing for this—as a targeted greenhouse gas. Following on from the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, I point out that this means that NF₃ emissions will be included within the scope of emissions for the annual statement of emissions for 2021, to be published by 31 March 2023, the full accounting period for the UK’s third carbon budget—CB3—and for subsequent carbon budgets. I am not sure whether that is the answer, but that is my understanding of what we are dealing with.

We on this side of the House have no objections to this instrument, but we have some questions. The Climate Change Act requires the Secretary of State to reduce the amount of net UK carbon emissions to at least 100% below the 1990 level, and to set a carbon budget for each five-year period, to report each year in line with international reporting practices. As we have heard, NF₃ has a global warming potential that is 17,000 times or thereabouts greater than carbon dioxide, although I am not sure that you can smell it, taste it or see it. Therefore, it is right to include it in the annual emissions reporting.

The Climate Change Committee highlighted that the volume of current NF₃ emissions is so low that it is not likely to impact on achieving the 2050 target, as the Minister said in his introduction. However, I am interested in whether the Government have made any assessment of the likelihood of this changing and whether there should be any increase in NF₃ emissions. Also, what is likely to affect the increase in NF₃ emissions into the atmosphere?

As we are coming to the end of the third carbon budget period, I would appreciate it if the Minister could update the House on the current expectation going into the fourth period next year. Given that these budgets were set long in advance—the third in 2008 and the fourth in 2011—they require long-term policy planning, and while the Climate Change Committee in June this year stated that the prospects for meeting the fourth are better than for meeting the fifth and sixth, it has also highlighted the dependence on short-term macroeconomic trends and the extent to which emissions rebounded following the pandemic.

On a wider note, the Climate Change Committee’s report in June emphasised that delivery is undermining the Government’s policy ambition. What steps are the Government taking to address this and to ensure that the positive words are met with the required delivery actions? The report also emphasised that action to address the rising cost of living should be aligned to net zero, yet we have seen the Government favouring non-renewables, with their loopholes to the oil and gas levy, while continuing their apparent ban on onshore wind.

We have asked for this to be considered many times, but I would be interested to hear the Government’s assessment of the impact that these decisions will have on their ability to hit forthcoming carbon budgets.

Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme (Amendment) (No. 3) Order 2022

Lord Teverson Excerpts

Thursday 3rd November 2022 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, I beg to move that the draft Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme (Amendment) (No.3) Order 2022, which was laid before the House on 7 September 2022, be approved.

The UK Emissions Trading Scheme—the ETS—was established under the Climate Change Act 2008 by the Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme Order 2020 as a UK-wide greenhouse gas emissions trading scheme to encourage cost-effective emissions reductions, contributing to the UK’s emissions reduction targets and our net-zero goal. This scheme replaced the UK’s participation in the EU Emissions Trading Scheme—the EU ETS—and the 2020 order applied existing rules on the monitoring, reporting and verification of emissions with modifications to ensure that they work for the UK ETS.

The 2020 order was subsequently amended by several statutory instruments in 2020, 2021, and 2022 to set up the scheme. These included provisions for the free allocation of allowances and the UK ETS registry, as well as a series of technical and operational amendments to improve the running of the scheme. Regulations under the Finance Act 2020 established rules for auctioning allowances and mechanisms to support market stability.

The purpose of this order is to amend the 2020 order to enable the inclusion of flights from Great Britain to Switzerland within the scope of the UK ETS. The existing UK ETS currently covers domestic flights, flights from the UK to the European Economic Area, and flights between the UK and Gibraltar. Since our departure from the European Union, flights between the UK and Switzerland are not covered in either the UK ETS or the Swiss Emissions Trading System, creating a gap in ETS coverage.

The Government consulted on the policy in this draft instrument between May and July 2019 as part of a consultation on the future of UK carbon pricing. In the 2020 government response to that consultation, we committed to include UK to Switzerland flights within the scope of the UK ETS if an agreement could be reached with Switzerland. I am happy to say that we have now agreed with Switzerland to cover these flights, and Switzerland has amended its relevant domestic legislation to ensure that flights from Switzerland to the UK are included in the Swiss ETS from 2023.

This instrument amends the 2020 order to include flights from Great Britain to Switzerland in the definition of “aviation activity” and to bring them within the scope of the UK ETS for the start of the 2023 scheme year. In 2019, UK to Switzerland flights amounted to approximately a quarter of a megatonne of CO₂, which is less than 0.2% of the UK ETS cap for the 2023 scheme year.

Noble Lords should note that the policy intent is to include flights from across the UK to Switzerland within the scope of the UK ETS. However, as the Northern Ireland Assembly was not able to consider affirmative legislation at the time when the instrument began the legislative process, this legislation brings only GB to Switzerland flights into the scope of the UK ETS. Once the Northern Ireland Assembly is functioning, equivalent legislation will be proposed to the Assembly as soon as possible to ensure that all flights between the UK and Switzerland are then covered. This order will enable the inclusion of flights from Great Britain to Switzerland within the scope of the UK ETS.

In conclusion, this SI will close a gap in coverage in the UK ETS, fulfilling the commitment set out in the government response to the future of UK carbon pricing consultation and upholding our agreement with Switzerland. On that basis, I therefore commend this order to the Committee.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I very much thank the noble Lord for that explanation. It is good to see the usual BEIS team opposite.

I went to Switzerland on holiday this summer. I was very lucky to do so. We went by train.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Do you have pictures for us?

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[Lord Teverson (LD)]

Yes.

We avoided airfares and carbon emissions from aeroplane travel. I bring this up because one of the issues is that the cost of travelling by train all the way through from Cornwall where I live and back again was significantly more expensive—I would say up to three times more—than travelling by air. This is a real issue in terms of climate change emissions and the whole way we manage this area.

At the heart of that to some degree is the tradition that comes from the EU ETS, which is a free issue of permits. I am sure that the Minister will be able to tell me what it is, but I think that the price per tonne of carbon in the UK ETS is around £60—I am not sure, but it is a significant amount of money anyway. I am interested to understand how much money or valuable assets we are offering as a public authority to the airline industry in terms of the number of permits times their value. I would be very interested to understand that. The airlines are able to sell on these permits, and quite rightly, because it is a marketplace. That is how we incentivise the industry, and other industries, to make their carbon emissions much more efficient.

Energy Prices Bill

Lord Teverson Excerpts

3rd reading
Tuesday 25th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, briefly, I thank the Minister and his Whip, the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, for their co-operation and hard work during the speedy passage of the Bill. I also thank both the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on the Liberal Democrat Benches for his knowledge of these matters, and especially my noble friend Lord McNicol, who, while not in his place today, came in at the last minute to support me in the absence of my noble friend Lady Blake. Finally, I thank Milton Brown from the legislative team in the Labour office for keeping us up to date and on message throughout the process. The Bill will now be referred to the other place, and we wish it well in its speedy implementation.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, we on these Benches very much support the Bill, although it might have a few Henry VIII powers and go a little further than it needs to. However, it is clearly absolutely essential for households getting through the winter to come. I very much thank the Minister and the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, for their work from the Government Benches, and all his other officials who have been involved. On our side, I also thank Sarah Pughe from our Whips’ Office. I also thank the Labour Front Bench, and particularly the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, for their co-operation and for the work we have done together. I make one least plea to the Minister, with which I am sure he will agree: it is very important that we manage to deliver the benefits that the Bill gives to those who are off-grid. I know that he and his officials will work hard to ensure that this is the case, although I understand that it will be difficult.

[Lord Whitty (Lab)]

My Lords, while I have no wish to dissent from this unanimity, I think that we are owed an indication from the Minister as to where this fits in with the overall energy policy. We had an Energy Bill before us which is now in limbo and which in part overlaps with the Bill. From the new Secretary of State for BEIS—and indeed from the Minister himself, with the assumption, we hope, that he is still here—we need an early statement on the totality of energy policy, on which this is dealing only with the immediate emergency—profound though it is—facing so many families and businesses. We need to know the totality of the position from the new Administration, so can we have some indication from the Minister as to when we are likely to see that?

Energy Prices Bill

Lord Teverson Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 24th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, I apologise for not speaking at Second Reading. I did listen to the Minister’s opening speech and I had made my views clear in an earlier briefing. My views sync very closely with those of the noble Lord, Lord Rooker. Quite honestly, this Government are out of control—we have known that for months, if not years—and it is time they understood they are not acting in a democratic manner. This is a “something must be done” Bill, and I understand why something must be done. However, it has so little detail, and the Government are expecting us to take this on trust. I do not trust the Government, and so there is a big problem here for me.

There are two big issues. First, these energy price schemes will make the difference between people being able to pay their bills or not pay their bills, and whether they can feed themselves, clothe their kids and that sort of thing. We have to be sure of all this detail. The Government are proposing to fill in about 90% of the Bill’s details at a later date, and they expect us to just wave it through. We cannot know the impact of this Bill on ordinary people.

Secondly, the Government have been determined to protect the profits of oil and gas companies, which we all know is a piece of idiocy when we look at the climate emergency. That profit will probably be reinvested in creating more opportunities for the oil and gas industry. The Government take a different approach to renewables, and this will cause a long-term disruption to renewable development. I would argue that investors will be encouraged to invest more in dirty oil and gas, rather than in clean renewables. That is a huge bailout for all those stranded carbon assets, and seems to me to be a completely illogical way to move forward.

I sense that the Government might mean well—actually, I am being too generous. I understand that something must be done, but this is not it. I want the Minister to explain those two issues. Will people be able to pay their bills? Will this cause more investment in dirty oil and gas?

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 27, 31, 34 and 40. What I have to say is very much in line with the speeches that have already taken place and I will not detain the House for long, except to make this point again. We understand the urgency of the Bill, for the health of households and their heat and energy over the next winter, and that of businesses as well, but there is a lot else included in this Bill that need not be rushed through in the same way.

I turn to Amendment 27. On reading the Bill, I was quite shocked—the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, forensically went through this in principle—that it says on page 21, in Clause 22 (4)(a), that these directions “must be in writing”. These are key bits of government policy, where a Secretary of State or a person who is subject to directions under this clause—we do not even know who it might be—is able to just write what should happen. Our own amendment would substitute that with

“made by regulations subject to the affirmative procedure”.

Amendments 31 and 34, with Amendment 34 relating to Northern Ireland—it is great to see the noble Lord, Lord Rogan, here following his contribution during the Second Reading—would remove the powers of sub-delegation.

Amendment 40 is around the sunset clause, which again the Opposition has, quite rightly, majored on. Here, we have put down a two-year limit.

Clearly, the Bill goes way beyond the authority given to the Government and the Secretary of State, without reference to Parliament. Some of these amendments must be voted on for the Bill to be put right and sent back to the House of Commons.

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Moved by

[Lord Teverson]

5: Clause 9, page 8, line 19, at end insert—
“(4A) Regulations under this section must apply to non-domestic customers—(a) that signed a fixed tariff agreement with their energy provider after 1 December 2021, and (b) on variable rates tariffs.”Member’s explanatory statement
Currently non-domestic customers who signed a fixed tariff agreement after 1 April 2022, and those on variable rates tariffs, benefit from the reduced energy charges. This amendment would extend this support to those customers who signed fixed tariff agreements between 1 December 2021 and 1 April 2022.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 6 in this group. Amendment 5 relates to the extension of the energy bill relief scheme for non-domestic customers. I hope that it is something that the Minister will be able to agree or reaffirm from the Dispatch Box, because it is really very straightforward. When the scheme was announced by the Government, only businesses that signed a fixed agreement after 1 April 2022 and those on variable rates were set to benefit. Businesses with energy agreements signed before this date—I repeat, that was 1 April—were unable to get a subsidy to their unit prices.

In the debate on the economy and the growth plan of 2022 in the House on Monday 10 October—so not so long ago—my noble friend Lord Fox raised this with the Minister, who responded that the Government would be “revising the cut-off date” so that contracts taken out between 1 December 2021 and 31 March 2022 would be “eligible for relief”. Can the Minister confirm that this is still the Government’s intention? If it is, given the uncertainty that businesses are facing with the current state of government, will he accept my Amendment 5, which seeks to put that commitment in the Bill? I see no reason why that should not be the case, to give absolute clarity and greater certainty to the non-domestic sector.

On Amendment 6, the alternative fuel payment scheme is intended to deliver a one-off payment of £100 to UK households which are not on the mains gas grid—I declare my own interest in that I rely on biomass and oil—and therefore use alternative fuels such as heating oil to heat their homes.

Powers in the Bill will enable the Government to deliver support via electricity bills under a similar delivery model to the energy bills support scheme, which, as noble Members will know, is a £400 non-repayable discount for eligible households to help with their energy bills, as announced in April by then Chancellor and soon-to-be Prime Minister Rishi Sunak. Households who are eligible for but do not receive alternative fuel payments or the £100 heat network payment—a very round number, as we saw on Second Reading—because they do not have a relationship with an electricity supplier, for example, will receive the £100 via this alternative fund, which will be provided by a designated body. According to the Government, they will set out timing and details of this payment soon. I look forward to hearing from the Minister whether we have any more detail at this time.

It is estimated that more than 4 million people in the UK are off the mains gas grid and rely on other means to heat their homes. As I know in Cornwall, fuel poverty is greater in rural areas than in urban areas and, crucially, it is often deeper, meaning that rural families need to save more money to make sure their energy bills are affordable. This amendment says that it is vital that a fast and easy way to use this system be set up to get these payments to them. Amendment 6 would ensure that payments are made directly to consumers’ bank accounts, which is clearly the quickest and easiest way to make the biggest difference to rural and off-grid customers. Therefore, I hope the Government will be able to accept this amendment, but I certainly hope that the Minister will be able to give more detail and a timeframe so that these particular consumers know their future. I beg to move.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, our Amendments 37 and 38 seek to backdate the electricity and gas price reduction scheme to 8 September, which was the day the Government first announced the energy price guarantee. Apart from anything else, this would produce money to be passed on to customers’ bills. It may seem a small change, but it would be extremely popular among all UK households.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I thank the noble Lords, Lord Rooker, Lord Teverson, Lord Lennie and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride, for their amendments, which seek to make changes to the schemes to reduce energy bills—namely the alternative fuel payments, the domestic energy price guarantee and the energy bill relief scheme.

First, turning to Amendment 5 tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on the energy bill relief scheme, I am pleased to note that he agrees with the decision to extend the eligibility date for customers on fixed-term contracts back to 1 December 2021, which my noble friend Lord Callanan confirmed in this House on 10 October. This will be implemented in regulations. I can give further reassurance that when the scheme was first announced on 23 September, it stated that all non-domestic customers on variable contracts, as well as deemed and flexible contracts, will be eligible for the scheme. Given that these details have already been published and will be implemented in regulations, the proposed changes to the Bill are unnecessary. I hope that gives the noble Lord the reassurance he was seeking.

I turn to the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, which seeks to remove Clause 9. This clause provides for the establishment of the energy bill relief scheme in Great Britain. This scheme will provide a price reduction to ensure that all businesses and other non-domestic customers—for example, charities and public sector organisations such as schools and hospitals—are protected from excessively high energy bills over the winter period. Under the provisions in Clause 9, the Secretary of State may, by regulations, reduce the amount that all eligible businesses and other non-domestic customers would be charged for their gas and electricity. Clause 9 allows for this through the calculation of a notional wholesale price for gas and electricity, referred to as the government-supported price, with a discount being provided which pays the difference between the government-supported price and the wholesale price.

The clause provides for regulations to detail how the Government may calculate this reduction. We intend for the scheme to run initially for a six-month period. Schedule 6 to the Bill allows for the scheme to be extended for up to three further consecutive periods for up to two years. We recognise that the diversity of contracts between suppliers and their non-domestic customers makes implementation of the scheme complex. This clause therefore provides for necessary powers to support successful delivery of all aspects of the scheme, and to allow the Government to respond appropriately to any rapid changes in the market. I therefore ask that Clause 9 stand part of the Bill.

Turning to Amendment 6, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on the alternative fuel payment scheme, households eligible for the domestic alternative fuel payment scheme in Great Britain will receive £100 as a credit on their electricity bill under a similar delivery model to the energy bills support scheme; we are exploring a similar route for Northern Ireland. We understand that consumers are already experiencing significantly increased living costs, and that is why the Government are delivering this support to customers as fast as possible and have committed to delivery of the payment this winter. Requiring that payments be made direct to consumer bank accounts would significantly slow down the ability to deliver, meaning that the target to pay this winter would be unlikely to be met. This Government do not have an established direct relationship with the relevant consumers, and a bespoke delivery scheme would need to be created, which would take significant time.

Delivering the domestic alternative fuel payment as a fixed credit amount via electricity bills will be significantly quicker than other possible routes and means that customers need take no action to receive it. Consumers eligible for the domestic alternative fuel payment but who do not have a relationship with an electricity supplier will receive the £100 via the alternative fuel payment discretionary fund. Details on how to access this fund will be confirmed shortly.

Turning to Amendments 37 and 38, on the domestic energy price reduction scheme, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Lennie and Lord McNicol of West Kilbride, I thank the noble Lords for their amendments to enable backdating of the electricity and gas price reduction scheme in Great Britain to 8 September. The energy price guarantee was implemented from 1 October so that consumers can expect to pay well below the scheduled increase in the price cap to £3,549 for a typical dual-fuel household. The energy price guarantee has been designed to work in combination with the May 2022 cost of living package to ensure that the most vulnerable households will see little change in their energy costs between last winter and the coming winter. I therefore see no need to alter the operative date of the energy price guarantee schemes. I hope that on this basis, the noble Lords will not feel it necessary to press their amendments.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the Minister’s statement on the backdating to December, and that the obligation that was accepted by the Minister earlier this month is to be repeated. I thank her for that, but I am not quite sure where we are with households that are due the £100 but who do not have a relationship with an electricity supply company, which is probably not insignificant. Before I withdraw Amendment 5, can the Minister be a little clearer on how this is going to function?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a good point. As he correctly observes, it is difficult to implement in practice because by their very nature, those households do not have a relationship with their energy supplier. We are urgently looking at a delivery mechanism, with all the appropriate protections against fraud et cetera. Delivery is likely to be through local authorities, but we are still working on a precise mechanism and as soon as we have more details, we will update the House.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that. If you cannot do it directly through Ministers, then through local authorities is probably the right way to do it. I know that Cornwall council is already starting to make some preparations in that area. I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 5.

Amendment 5 withdrawn.

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Moved by

[Lord Teverson]

8: After Clause 15, insert the following new Clause—
“Report on effectiveness of energy efficiency programmes in reducing energy costs
(1) Within six months of the day on which this Act is passed, the Secretary of State must review the impact of energy efficiency programmes in reducing energy costs in accordance with this section.(2) A review under this section must consider the impact of—(a) the number of homes and business properties which have increased their EPC rating,(b) the number of homes and business properties which have undergone retrofitting programmes, including— (i) fitting of solar panels, and(ii) replacement of gas boilers,(c) increases in renewable energy sources, and(d) public messaging campaigns into changing energy usage habits.(3) The Secretary of State must lay a copy of the report before each House of Parliament.”Member’s explanatory statement
This new Clause would require the Secretary of State to report on the impact of energy efficiency programmes in reducing energy costs.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, we come back to a subject we always discuss in energy Bills, whether the dormant Energy Bill or the Energy Prices Bill in front of us today: energy efficiency and demand reduction. Whatever the Government say from their Front Bench about what is being done, it is quite clear that this is not seen as a priority in reality. Indeed, as far as I have noticed, it does not feature to any significant extent in this Bill. However, although I accept that the Bill is very much about short-term measures, we still have to look forward to the medium and longer term and how we make sure that, after the payments we are making and the Bill intends to make into the future—which are substantial, with estimates varying from £40 billion to £100 billion, depending on how long these measures last—we do not go back to square one whenever such a crisis arises again, despite having spent literally billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money.

This is a very mild amendment. We are being modest because we hope that the Government will accept that we should have at least something in the Bill about energy efficiency. We are asking for a proper and comprehensive review of costs to do with energy efficiency within six months of the Bill being passed. As noble Lords can see from the amendment, we are asking for a review of the impact of

“the number of homes and business properties which have increased their EPC rating … fitting … solar panels, and … replacement of gas boilers, … increases in renewable energy sources, and … public messaging campaigns”.

I would be interested to understand where the Government are on public messaging campaigns at the moment. I understand that the almost-past Government very much resisted them. Can the Minister give us more of an idea of where we are now?

What I am emphasising here is that it is essential that energy efficiency and demand reduction should be at the top of the list of tools of energy policy as a way forward. We clearly need some reference to them in the Bill, while we are making these huge payments, to make sure that businesses are able to continue in the future and that households can afford their energy bills without going into debt—although I fear that many will in any case. That is the core of this amendment and we take this very seriously. We believe that the Government have not performed sufficiently on this during their time in government.

I will also speak briefly to Amendment 9, and I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, who is not in her place at the moment, for her support. Amendment 9 looks forward to where we go after this major splurge of public expenditure. I think a consensus is coming—from consumers, consumer groups and energy companies themselves—on how we need to treat energy Bills in the future, in that we have to move to a different place. One place we could move to is a social tariff. Nothing is perfect in this world. We know that in a situation where people move out of the definition of qualifying for a social tariff, it can have negative effects on income or whatever.

A social tariff would mean those households in fuel poverty being able to solve that issue by paying a different tariff on their electricity from those not in that degree of poverty. We all know that, even without the current crisis, many millions of households are in fuel poverty. This has not been solved by Governments over the years. The long-term way is energy efficiency and demand reduction but, in the medium term, surely we should start planning now for something of the order of a social tariff. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Geddes) (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas of Winchester, is taking part remotely and I invite her to speak. She does not seem to be technically available at present; it is therefore open to any other noble Lord to speak to this amendment.

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[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s response to my noble friend Lady Brinton on that important issue. He said that there are already lots of statistics for energy efficiency: absolutely, there are. They are all over the place, and every time you need to search for them, you have to work out what they are. One, from the energy poverty statistics, points out that, in England alone, 3.6 million households are in fuel poverty. That was in 2020, before this crisis.

Although the Bill, which we welcome in principle, is there to solve that problem—or not make it any worse—let us remember that the present average price cap is £2,500 per household, which is getting on for double what it was in 2020. So the level of fuel poverty will hugely increase.

There may be good will or a wish among the Government but, whatever the Minister says—I do not doubt his sincerity—there is never a major move forward in the form of action on energy efficiency and demand reduction that actually makes a difference. As my colleague and noble friend Lord Foster, and the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, said, we have some of the least efficient housing and commercial building stock in this country. That is why we need to reboot the whole energy efficiency and demand reduction conversation, which must lead to action. This amendment is not the end of that process; it is a modest but essential start. On that basis, I wish to test the opinion of the Committee.

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Moved by

[Lord Teverson]

13: After Clause 15, insert the following new Clause—
“Energy profits levy
(1) The Secretary of State must lay before Parliament an assessment of the additional revenue that would result from the following policy measures—(a) amending the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy so that it applies to oil and gas profits incurred since 1 October 2021,(b) removing from the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy allowances for investment in oil and gas extraction,(c) increasing the rate of the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy beyond 25%, and(d) implementing a windfall tax on the excess profits of coal- and gas-fired power stations.(2) In addition, the Secretary of State must lay before Parliament an official estimate of the oil and gas super profits over the next 2 years.(3) The Secretary of State must lay the report before Parliament no later than 31 October 2022.”Member’s explanatory statement
This new Clause would require the Secretary of State to lay a report before Parliament detailing the impact of expanding the government’s Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, without, I hope, taking away too much tension from the Committee, I am not going to press this amendment so I shall be relatively brief in explaining it. It has an important basis in the Government’s Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act. It also has an element of looking at how the Bill and previous schemes discriminate against the renewables industry compared with fossil fuels.

A key element of Amendment 13 is to assess the impact of that date in the levy so that it applies to oil and gas profits incurred since 1 October 2021. The Government’s energy profits levy is effective from 26 May, meaning that profits accrued before that date are outside its scope. It was clear over a year ago that surging profits for the oil and gas companies were in stark contrast to the real struggle faced by ordinary people and small businesses faced with high and soaring energy costs. In fact, it was one year ago today that my right honourable friend Ed Davey MP called for the windfall tax on the profits of oil and gas companies, accompanied in due course by other parties and other parties represented in this House.

If the Chancellor had responded at that time and a levy had been in place from October, it would have raised billions more. If I could just remind the Committee of the profits since then, BP saw profits rise by 138% between quarter 1 of 2021 and quarter 1 of 2022—from £2.6 billion to £6.2 billion; it was similar for Shell. These combined super-profits alone amount to £7.5 billion in the first quarter of 2022. That is £7.5 billion more than they made in the same quarter in 2021. Had those windfall profits had been taxed by the same amount, it would have raised £1.8 billion.

What we are looking for in particular here has to do with the levy. Like proposed new subsection (1) in Labour’s Amendment 14, proposed new subsection (1)(b) in Amendment 13 calls from the removal of allowances in the levy for investment in oil and gas extraction. This is one of the key differences between the revenue cap on renewables and the fossil fuel industry, where there is that huge investment incentive of getting 80% back for investment in—dare I say?—fossil fuels, obviously. That is where we want there to be quality.

We on these Benches know, as do Members from other parts of the House, that renewables, rather than fossil fuels, are really the way forward. The Government have committed themselves to a large amount of investment in offshore wind. We recognise that but we need to keep at least a level playing field in taxation matters between renewables and fossil fuels. I very much believe that we need then to push investment in renewables further forward. I beg to move.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the whole question of the energy market is complicated and beset by a series of legislative procedures which can cause confusion. That said, the new clause proposed by Amendment 14 would simply require the Secretary of State to produce a report assessing the impact of removing the investment allowance from oil and gas companies, as set out in the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy Act, and, in particular, to assess the impact on domestic and non-domestic users. Currently, oil and gas companies receive an 80% rebate on every pound invested but that is not available to renewables or other zero-carbon technology. This appears to tilt the market away from investments in cheaper domestic clean power sources towards oil, gas and fracking.

The proposed new clause would require the Government to assess the revenue and profits of electricity generators and oil and gas producers every six months, to see what the effects would be. Amendment 20 would require the Secretary of State to disaggregate the cost of production of natural gas from the cost of production of other energy sources to reduce the cost of electricity to domestic and commercial consumers. This dates back to when gas was the only game in town for energy companies; now, renewables account for 43% of the generation mix.

Gas prices have increased fourfold since the beginning of 2011, which means that consumers are paying much more for electricity than the average cost of generation across the market. Splitting the market is a likely consequence, by creating a separate pool for cheaper, intermittent, renewable generation and a second for traditional fossil fuel, which in turn could lead to consumers determining when to use cheaper electricity for things such as car charging by timing their usage accordingly. Electricity prices would be determined competitively by companies considering their own boundaries rather than working through gas. I give notice of our attention to move Amendment 14 to a vote.

--- Later in debate ---

Finally, I turn to Amendment 30 tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Lennie and Lord McNicol. It is my firm belief that this amendment is not necessary. As I have mentioned before, the Bill does not legislate for oil and gas producers. We are imposing the cost-plus revenue limit on some low-carbon electricity generators. This is subject to consultation and the drafting of secondary legislation. The amendment would prejudice the outcome of that consultation and development of secondary legislation, which of course will be debated fully in this House. Therefore, I hope that the noble Lord will feel able not to press his amendment.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his reply, and beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 13 withdrawn.

Energy Prices Bill

Lord Teverson Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 19th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I once again declare my interest in the energy storage industry. What a Bill—it seems we are all agreed on what we are trying to do, but none of us agrees on how we are going to do it. Yet we have this very short timetable to complete the Bill, effectively now on Tuesday, although it was going to be Monday.

We have had a big break since the Energy Bill, which has somehow disappeared before it got to my best amendments, so I am extremely disappointed personally that it has been postponed. However, I spent my time well over our various recesses with my chainsaw, sawing up all my homegrown logs—they are three years old, so low-particulate. I spent a lot of time on that and am pleased to say that the Teverson household has not yet turned on our central heating. I hope to get beyond that critical date of 22 October when everyone switches it on.

It is interesting that, apart from the Minister, we have not had a contribution from the Conservative Benches tonight, although they have a past Energy Minister on their Benches, the noble Lord, Lord Marland, whom I enjoyed working with during the coalition Government.

A number of themes have come out clearly this evening. The most powerful, from the Delegated Powers Committee, is the huge range that the Government and the Secretary of State have been given here. Clause 22 was mentioned, but I particularly looked at Clause 13(2), which says:

“The Secretary of State may take such other steps as the Secretary of State considers appropriate in response to the energy crisis.”


I was thinking about what that could include. The most obvious step, given one of the main sources of energy price increases, would be to declare war on the country that is causing us this problem. That power seems to be in the Bill. I assume, despite the chaos of the Government at the moment, that will not take place. It illustrates the huge powers that are in the Bill.

I refer specifically to amending licences. I do not think this has been mentioned in the debate although many noble Lords have mentioned powers more generally. I would be interested to understand from the Minister why that particular power is in the Bill because, despite all the advice we have from energy companies, this is the one that seems to move away from the neutral, reliable, regulatory system that we have and seems to breach it. I would be interested to understand why that is included.

We heard also from many Members of the House—the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, for instance—about the discrimination that there seems to be between renewables and the fossil fuel industry, both in terms of the way they are treated and whether the cost-plus revenue limit is a tax. It is obvious that it is really, but it does not have the ability to bring back money for investment in the industry. There is a difference in those schemes, with the fossil fuel scheme lasting until 2025, I think, and the powers in terms of the renewable sector until 2027. Why is that there? It is inconsistent and goes against government policy, or certainly declared government policy, and perhaps the Minister could explain that further.

We have little information about the cost-plus revenue limit itself. There are great powers for Ministers again. There has been very little consultation. I understand the consultation is still to happen. Perhaps the Minister could tell us what the timetable will be on that: will it be microseconds, hours, or maybe even reach to days? It would be useful to understand something that is so important.

I was pleased to hear from the noble Lord, Lord Rogan, about the £100 payment because I was not aware of the situation in Northern Ireland. I am not on a gas system myself, but in England most people are. It was a very interesting point. I do not fully understand the £100. We all know that if you put a round number in a bill, it is a made up number—that is where round numbers come from. If you have any sense, you put it at £98.20 or £102.50, to convince us that there is some science behind how that amount was reached. I would be interested to understand where that comes from. I think it really does discriminate against a lot of rural Britain that is not able to plug into the gas network, as many people say.

I am a great supporter of contracts for difference. They have been a saviour in many ways. They were introduced during the coalition Government, they are well supported by the present Government, and they seem to offer fantastic balance between fairness in terms of cost and certainty in terms of investment. They have worked well. I like the idea of trying to transition many other power producers on to CfDs. We have here a voluntary mechanism to be able to do it. I understand that one of the selling points the Government are giving this is that it takes out risks or gives certainty, but I still find it difficult to understand why organisations or companies would make that transition. I would be interested to hear more from the Government about why that should be the case.

I will finish by saying that the one thing that strikes me most about the Bill, and this whole philosophy, is that there is not an exit strategy. There is no way out of this. The only way out is if, perchance, energy prices themselves come down in the future. There are all sorts of reasons, I hope globally, why that might be the case, but we have no assurance of it. It seems to me that the fundamental obscenity of this situation is that we are likely as taxpayers to pay altogether on the two schemes—what is in this Bill and what has come before—up to something like £137 billion in current expenditure on keeping bills down, yet our energy infrastructure in this country in terms of housing, as the noble Lord, Lord Foster, said, will be as weak and pathetic as it is now after we have spent that money. How much better it would have been if we had previously invested that money to reduce demand, yet we failed to do that. Once we get through this winter cycle, or maybe the one after, or the one after that, we will still have the same inefficient energy structure in this country that we had before. To me, that is the greatest challenge.

The Bill is needed, but the way it is implemented is far from perfect.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to this important debate today. I will respond to as many as possible of the issues that were raised in the time that is available to me.

I start by briefly reminding noble Lords of the importance of the Bill. Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine has led to a global energy crisis, and the Government are taking urgent action now to support households and businesses across the UK which would otherwise face significant financial difficulties this winter. I know that many speakers in the debate recognised that. This legislation will ensure that households, businesses and other bodies such as charities and public organisations—and indeed churches—receive the financial support that they need by providing the framework to deliver the Government’s energy support package. In so doing, the Bill will help drive down inflation and support economic growth.

I turn to points raised by noble Lords in their contributions. First, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, for their letter that I received this morning on the Energy Security Bill. I will respond to them in writing shortly, but I assure the House that the government remain committed to the important measures in that Bill to deliver change in the energy system over the longer term. We have to deal with the short-term crisis but we are not forgetting the longer-term context, and many of the measures in that Bill are to ensure that changes are made in the regulations that will benefit us all in the long term.

In the meantime, we are facing a global energy crisis, and we must ensure that we prioritise delivering the measures in this Bill to provide that much-needed support to consumers. I will say a few words about why it is so important to get this legislation passed soon. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester for raising the important issue of the speed of this legislation; I readily accept that we are going through it extremely rapidly.

Households and businesses face rising energy prices, and it is essential that this legislation and subsequent secondary legislation that will be laid under it is in place by the end of this month. This is to allow for urgent financial assistance for householders, businesses and other organisations across the UK ahead of the winter, and particularly from the start of November.

Building on the DPRRC’s report, the noble Lords, Lord Lennie, Lord Teverson, Lord Foster and Lord Grantchester, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Worthington and Lady Young, raised concerns about the delegated powers in the Bill. Again, I pay tribute to the work of the DPRRC and thank the committee for its report, which I will also respond to shortly. The Bill takes a relatively limited number of powers but I readily accept that they are broad ones. They are essential for ensuring that these crucial support schemes can be stood up at pace. The House will appreciate the speed at which this measure has been drafted. I pay tribute to the exemplary work of the officials involved in delivering it; it has involved lots of late nights and weekend working for them, for which I thank them. It is essential that these measures are delivered as intended. To be frank with noble Lords, these powers will allow us to do this with the appropriate scrutiny.

As I said in my introduction, the vast majority of the powers in the Bill are effectively time-limited through either direct sunsetting—normally, noble Lords are calling on me to sunset powers—their link to other powers in the Bill, or indeed the duration of this energy crisis. The ability to extend time limits ensures that we have sufficient scope if we need to change them over time. I assure the House that noble Lords will of course have an opportunity for further scrutiny on the details of those schemes via the secondary legislation route, much of which is subject to the affirmative procedure.

A number of noble Lords raised concerns about the powers in Clauses 21 and 22, specifically powers to modify licences and give direction; those concerns were also reflected in the DPRRC’s report. In my view, these powers are necessary to facilitate the delivery of a number of support schemes, including the Northern Ireland energy bills support scheme and the alternative fuel payment for domestic and, potentially, non-domestic customers as well. Let me make it clear to the House that, under the terms of the Bill, Clauses 21 and 22 must be used in response to the current energy crisis. Using the powers in either clause in relation to action under any of the other powers in the Bill is in effect time- limited, as these powers are themselves time-limited.

As expected, and as always happens in these debates, many noble Lords raised the important issue of energy efficiency. A crisis gives even greater urgency for action to make homes more energy efficient in order to reduce energy bills and, crucially, to tackle fuel poverty. That is why the Government are investing £12 billion in our Help to Heat scheme, including £1.5 billion to upgrade around 130,000 social housing and low-income properties in England. I was able to launch an additional £800 million of that scheme in discussions with housing associations and local authorities only last week.

The Government have also announced further support on energy efficiency through the ECO Plus measures. This scheme was announced in the mini-Budget—it is one of the few measures from the mini-Budget to have survived so far. It will help hundreds of thousands of households to reduce their energy bills by targeting that support to the most vulnerable. Of course, as it is an obligation, we will consult on the detailed policy design of ECO Plus shortly; I am sure that noble Lords who take an interest in these matters will want to contribute. We hope to have the scheme up and running by April next year.

In addition, our energy security strategy sets out further commitments to support property owners, including facilitating low-cost finance from retail lenders to help consumers upgrade their properties at low cost. This includes zero-rating VAT on the installation of insulation and low-carbon heating for the next five years. That will potentially save up to £2,000 on the cost of an air source heat pump—should the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Old Scone, want to move in that direction.

The noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and the noble Baroness, Lady Young, raised the cost-plus revenue limit. The Government recognise the importance of dispatchable and baseload generation for security of supply. The low-carbon technologies that can deliver these types of power, such as biomass and nuclear, tend to have higher input costs. This is being considered as part of the detailed policy design for the cost-plus revenue limit. We intend the limit to last only for as long as it is strictly necessary. A number of noble Lords referred to the five-year sunset provision. That would allow the Government to respond to the immediate effects of high wholesale prices on consumers while ensuring their ongoing protection if gas prices remain abnormally high for a prolonged period beyond current expectations.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

Can the Minister clarify that renewables on the cost-plus, whether hydro, solar, wind, AD or whatever, will be assessed separately within those different sectors, rather than it being an across-the-board average?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

That goes back to the point I made in my introduction. There are many different circumstances facing different providers. Some of them have pointed out quite loudly that they have sold their power in long-term contracts, et cetera, so it varies from provider to provider. However, the noble Lord gives me the opportunity to say that the precise mechanics of the temporary cost-plus revenue limit will of course be subject to a full consultation, which we will launch shortly.

The noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, raised important issues on who should bear the cost of the measures. The energy profits levy on oil and gas and the cost-plus revenue limit that have been announced for low-carbon generators will help to fund these schemes. The scale of the crisis means that the sums involved are beyond those two mechanisms so higher borrowing will be necessary to pay for this temporary support, and it is right that we use all the available tools to support businesses through this crisis and to spread the costs over time.

The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester, the noble Baroness, Lady Young—

Energy Supplies

Lord Teverson Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point. A number of scare stories have been circulating, although I would gently point out that many parts of America are much less densely populated than many parts of the UK.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, it is well understood that fracking will take some time to develop, and it is more expensive than many renewables. As an alternative, solar is renewable, a lot cheaper and can be implemented much more quickly. Can the Government guarantee that they will not restrict further the rollout of solar in the country during the next couple of years?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Not only can I guarantee that but we will be expanding renewables production. We need to do both. We need to roll out renewables, which have a good track record. They are relatively cheap, but they are intermittent—it is no good telling people that they can keep their lights on for only 60% of the time. The real watchword is that we need diversity of supply. We need more renewables; we need gas; we need nuclear; we need biomass production—we need all of them.

Energy Bill [HL]

Lord Teverson Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 7th September 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I am slightly sympathetic to the Government on certain of these amendments in certain ways; I expect the Minister will not immediately accept them. First, I re-emphasise my interests in energy storage, as declared in the register. I welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell, back into the conversation. She and the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, are quite a powerful duo and I am just thankful that they are not both here together—it might be just a little too much, but we might get some movement from the Government if they were.

On carbon use, I have no disagreement with the amendment; it would be positive to include it. In a way, I follow the Minister’s hesitation from Monday in saying that if we have carbon use, we have to make very sure that that use is long-term rather than short-term. I am not sure we have got to that point yet in the amendment. I will say that one obvious area where we should be doing this is in building and construction, where we use wood rather than concrete and steel. Many other economies and housing markets across Europe and other parts of the world use those technologies: they are there, they are strong and they capture the carbon in wood for probably a century or more—however long these buildings last. I would be interested in the Minister’s—maybe positive—response about how we can make sure that that carbon use sequesters the carbon for a long period.

As for the idea of air capture, I very much agree with the spirit of the noble Lord, Lord Howell. What concerns me, though, is exactly the point that the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, made. Not in this Chamber, clearly, and not among the Members present, but problem with air capture of carbon is that it gives a free ticket out for climate sceptics who say, “Don’t worry about any of this stuff because technology is going to solve it. We don’t have to worry about energy efficiency and renewables because technology will find a way forward”. I very much hope that it will, and there are good signs of that, but the other thing about it—which is why it is not the priority on the scale, if you like—is that it will take out 0.4% of the atmosphere that you have to process. Whereas, if you, as a power station, are using carbon capture, that concentration is hugely greater, so it is a much more efficient process to deal with in the first place. Again, my heart is there in terms of future-proofing, but to me it sends out dangerous signals to the market.

The much bigger issue, which seems to have been forgotten since COP 26, is methane. That is the gas that we need to get out of the atmosphere quickly and effectively. Ever since COP 26, where the Government were very supportive of initiatives to take methane out, science has shown that methane emissions globally are much higher than we expected and very little action has taken place on that since. I see that as a priority, but I will be very interested in the Minister’s response.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

My Lords, I too welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell, back to these Benches. I look forward to any parties hosted by her and the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, in future—they sound great fun.

I first turn to Amendment 39 in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, which seeks explicitly to include the use of carbon dioxide, given that the Bill refers to carbon capture, usage and storage, or CCUS. The carbon capture revenue support contracts are intended to support the deployment of carbon capture technologies in industrial and commercial activities where there is no viable alternative to achieve deep decarbonisation.

The Bill allows for carbon capture revenue support contracts to be entered into with eligible carbon capture entities. Broadly, a carbon capture entity is a person who carries on activities of capturing carbon dioxide that has been produced by commercial or industrial activities with a view to the storage of carbon dioxide—that is, storage with a view to the permanent containment of carbon dioxide. It is important to emphasise that the provisions in the Bill may therefore allow for support of a broad range of carbon capture applications, including those carbon capture entities that utilise the carbon dioxide resulting in the storage of carbon dioxide with a view to its permanent containment. Decisions as to which carbon capture entities are eligible for support are to be made on a case-by-case basis. Prioritising support for carbon storage is considered essential to help deliver our decarbonisation targets.

I turn now to Amendment 49 in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell, and the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, which seeks to ensure that techniques such as direct air carbon capture and storage are included in scope of carbon capture revenue support contracts. I thank my noble friend Lord Howell of Guildford for his remarks in this regard. As part of the Net Zero Strategy published last year, the Government set out an ambition to deploy at least 5 megatonnes of carbon dioxide emissions per year of engineered greenhouse gas removal methods, such as direct air capture, by 2030.

We recognise that greenhouse gas removal technologies, commonly referred to as GGRs, such as direct air carbon capture and storage, are considered important for making progress towards net zero. That is why in July we published a GGR business model consultation that sets out the Government’s initial views on the design of a business model to attract private investment and enable engineered GGR projects to deploy at scale from the mid-to-late 2020s. The consultation is due to close on 27 September. How direct air carbon capture and storage might be supported by any such business model is still subject to ongoing policy development and consideration. Once we have further developed the policy thinking on this, we can then consider what the appropriate mechanics might be and whether there are any available. We are exploring how early GGR projects could be connected also to the transport and storage network in CCUS clusters and will publish further information in due course.

The questions of the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, on carbon-neutral air fuels are not directly covered by my speaking notes, so I shall write to him with more details in due course. It overlaps with another department, so I will write to him and copy it to all Members of the Committee.

I hope that on the basis of my reassurances noble Lords will not press their amendments.

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[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I add my welcome to my noble friend Lady Liddell and I am certain that my noble friend Lord Foulkes will be thinking of organising a party to celebrate her return to Westminster.

I cannot add to the comments she made on her amendment. I completely support what she said. I feel that there is a bit of déjà vu here and that we are going over ground we covered in our first session on Monday, but I think it is really important that we emphasise again, through the amendments that my noble friend Lord Lennie and I have put down, how important it is that we have clarity in all aspects of the Bill. I want to emphasise again the need to ensure that all aspects are future-proofed, thereby giving all parties the confidence that matters of probity, security and appropriate appointments are always taken into account in key positions. It is unfortunate that we need to emphasise this aspect, but I think experience will tell us that it is a very necessary part of all the processes that we bring in place.

To recap briefly, in Amendment 42 we would like to insert the phrase “fit and proper”. As we have said before, this is not the first time this has been used—it was used in the National Security and Investment Bill. Through this amendment we make sure that it is the responsibility of the Secretary of State personally to deem the individual as fit and proper.

Amendment 44 specifically refers to the need for the hydrogen counterparty to be

“a fit and proper person”.

The aim is to make sure that responsibility is very clearly accounted to the Secretary of State.

The explanatory statement for Amendment 64 says:

“If the Secretary of State needs to find a new counterparty, this amendment requires that they must ensure they are a fit and proper person, as with previous amendments in our names”.


I do not think that at this point in the state of affairs we can emphasise enough just how important it is to have accountability, clarity and the ability to have straight- forward lines of communication.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

I did not like to address the amendments tabled by the noble Baroness before she had addressed them herself. I welcome the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell; I think it adds clarity. I absolutely agree with the amendment that the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, has just gone through. I think “fit and proper” is used many times throughout certainly financial services secondary legislation, and when it comes to hydrogen production it seems to me that this is something that is really key. I look forward to the Minister arguing that people in this position should not be fit and proper people, and I pass over to him.

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[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, in the interests of time, I will comment only on Amendment 240, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Foster of Bath, and offer strong support for it—alongside some potential improvements or broadening-out suggestions at this stage.

It is interesting that, in 2015, Steve Holliday, the then CEO of National Grid, said that the idea of baseload relying on coal-fired or nuclear power stations was “outdated”:

“From a consumer’s point of view, the solar on the rooftop is going to be the baseload.”


This would obviously need to rely on batteries for it to work 24/7. Mostly since that time, 3.3% of British homes have installed solar panels, but many of them were installed before batteries were a viable option. Those home owners should not pay the high levels of VAT to enhance the system for the benefit of both themselves and the whole of society.

I have later amendments talking about community energy schemes. I can think of numerous ones that I have visited over the years where solar panels were put on cricket pavilions, community halls et cetera. We have been talking mostly about domestic settings, but there are also many community settings in which the addition of batteries may now be a practical option.

We will be talking a lot in later groups about the issue of energy efficiency and improving energy security by reducing our demand. My understanding of the information from the Consumer Protection Association —and I stand to be corrected if I am wrong—is that double, triple and secondary glazing are not currently covered by the VAT concession. It seems to me that this could possibly be included in this amendment; perhaps it is something we can work on.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I begin by making it quite clear that my energy storage interests are not around long-term storage or retail storage.

I absolutely support the amendments put forward by my noble friends, but I will not talk about them. Instead, I will follow up on the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, and relate it to some of the discussion that took place earlier today in the House around storage, because gas storage is really important at this present time, and it will continue to be in future. I like the way—through a percentage or whatever we use—that we can see a relevant ratchet downwards, as we would expect. However, what alarmed me earlier today was that, in terms of current storage, we appear to be in the hands of independent directors of independent companies that have responsibility to their shareholders under the law, but not to the energy security of the country. That was very clearly stated by the Minister in terms of the decision to turn off the Rough facility in 2017. As I said at the time, if that was the case then, I see no reason why that is not also the case in future; there seemed to be no proposal by the Government to change that situation. I am interested to hear the Minister’s response to that part of my original question.

I will also go back to what the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, said, because part of the Minster’s earlier answer was that our storage is the gas we have in the North Sea. But we all know that that store is going down, and I certainly would not, from these Benches, resist trying to increase that in the short term during the energy crisis to ensure that our energy is there—the situation would be different in the medium and long terms. That flow is going down and our imports are going up. I do not know if these two years were particularly representative, but the last figures from the Minister’s department said that, in 2020, we imported £5 billion-worth of gas. A year later, that went up to £20 billion-worth of imports of gas—a quadrupling. That was not all because of a price increase at that time, most of which has happened in 2022.

Another statistic reveals that, while we think we have multiple sources, 75% of imports came from one country, which is Norway. Norway is a dependable friend of the United Kingdom; we would not argue otherwise. But we must be clear that Norway’s bigger customer is Germany. Germany and the other European countries which import gas from Norway are probably more desperate—this is likely not the right phrase to use—for that resource than we are. As I said, I very much support the outline of the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, and ask the Minister what security we actually have, and for how long, over our supplies—that is, the 75% of imports that we have from Norway. What is our legal entitlement to that flow into the future?

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the amendments from the noble Lord, Lord Oates, are very welcome and they plug a gap in the Energy Bill. Amendment 50 facilitates the changes proposed by allowing the Secretary of State to

“designate the person to be a counterparty for long duration energy storage revenue support contracts.”

Amendment 51 introduces a new clause which allows the Secretary of State to

“direct a long duration energy storage counterparty to offer to contract with an eligible person”.

Clauses 59, 61 and 63 already allow designation of counterparties for transport and storage, hydrogen production and carbon capture revenue support contracts, and Amendment 50 simply replicates this for long duration energy storage. Similarly, Clauses 60, 62 and 64 already allow the Secretary of State to direct counterparties to offer to contract, and Amendment 51 replicates this for long duration energy storage.

The amendments define long-duration energy storage revenue support contracts as being

“between a long duration energy storage counterparty and the holder of a licence under section 7”

and, as ones

“entered into by a long duration energy storage counterparty in pursuance of a direction given to it under section 60(1).”

This fills a big gap for long-duration energy storage. According to the Government, longer-duration storage—access across days, weeks and months—could help to reduce the cost of meeting net zero by storing excess low-carbon generation for longer periods of time, thereby helping to manage variation in generation, such as extended periods of low wind. This in turn could reduce the amount of fossil-fuel and low-carbon generation that would otherwise be needed to optimise the energy output from renewables.

Long-duration energy storage includes pumped storage as well as a range of innovative new technologies that can store electricity for four hours to supply firm, flexible and fast energy that is valuable for managing high-renewables systems. Introducing long-duration energy storage in large quantities in Britain by 2035 can reduce carbon emissions by 10 megatonnes of CO₂ per annum, reduce systems costs by £1.13 billion per annum and reduce reliance on gas by 50 TWh per annum. That seems to me worth consideration in this Bill.

Amendment 225 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, which has general support around the House, requires the Government to produce a strategy for the storage of gas for domestic consumption. This would see the construction and operation of gas storage facilities capable of holding 25%, although it could be more—it could be 100%—of forecast domestic consumption each year beyond 2025. While agreeing that UK gas storage is currently small, which may have left us exposed to higher prices and shortages thus far, is it the solution to the long-term energy supply problems that we may face? It may well be that we need an immediate expansion of gas, but whether it is the long-term solution to our energy supply is open to some question. The UK currently stores enough gas to meet demand over four or five winter days, which is clearly not enough. But the new Chancellor said, when he was the Business Secretary, that the answer to mitigating a quadrupling of the gas price in four months was to get more diverse sources of supply, and more diverse sources of electricity, through non-carbon sources. So there is some doubt about the long-term viability of increasing gas storage.

Amendment 240 from the noble Lord, Lord Foster, would establish a new clause to store energy generated by solar panels in the list of energy-saving materials that are subject to zero-rate VAT. He had the example of his friend in the south-west. Modelling from Cornwall Insight’s view of the GB power market out to 2030 has shown that between 2025 and 2030 the Government must spend almost one-fifth of their total energy technologies investment, which includes solar, wind, nuclear and carbon capture and storage, on energy storage batteries, if we are to meet renewable targets and stabilise the energy market. Latest data estimates that almost 10% of grid capacity will be provided by battery storage by 2030, at an estimated cost of £20 billion. So, considering both the need and the cost of this, the amendment seems a sensible proposal to encourage the market to take up some of the burden.

--- Later in debate ---

I understand that the Committee wants to push me further on the issue of the rough storage facility. Centrica has taken a decision and has applied for the consents to enable it to at least partially reopen the site for this winter. It has submitted a proposal for our consideration, which we are looking at. I can go no further than that at the moment, but I assure the Committee that when we have further news on this, I shall make sure that noble Lords are informed at the earliest possible moment.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

That is moving back from what I understood. I understood there had been an agreement, or is it just that the facility has been licensed? Is that how far it has got, and so a commercial agreement has still to be made? Is that where we are?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As I said at OQs this afternoon, licences have been granted by Ofgem, by the regulatory bodies, because the safety and security of the facility is important. Centrica has taken a commercial decision to open part of the storage facility for this winter, and it has submitted other plans for our consideration, which we are doing. I apologise to the noble Lord, but I can go no further than that at the moment. As soon I have further information, and we expect progress in the near future, I will inform the noble Lord and the rest of the Committee.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that information, but it sounds to me like Centrica is conducting a very hard negotiation with the Government, maybe at the security expense of the country—I do not know.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I will leave that as a comment; there is nothing I can reply to on it. When I have further information, I will update the Committee.

The commitment proposed by my noble friend Lord Moylan to have in storage gas equivalent to 25% of forecast domestic consumption by 2025 is extremely ambitious. It is also horrendously expensive to do and, I submit to the Committee, unnecessary. The Government fully recognise the importance of gas storage, as I said, and officials continue to work on the future role that it can play in the clean energy landscape, particularly as gas production, as a number of noble Lords have said, can start to decline. But, of course, the fact that we get 45% of our production from our own continental shelf is, in effect, a giant gas storage facility and that is why we have traditionally had much less than continental countries which do not have those advantages. There is an integrated market—that is correct—and both sides benefit from it. As I said, the interconnectors over this year have been operating massively in the direction of the rest of continental Europe from the UK.

I think I have answered all the questions that were raised about gas storage facilities.

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[Baroness Worthington (CB)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 55, 56 and 57 to Clause 66, which are in my name. As has been eloquently expressed by the noble Baroness, Lady Blake of Leeds, we absolutely need to put at the forefront of our attention the need to minimise adding costs to consumers at this time. Please excuse my coarse language, but it feels to me that the Government are in danger of moving from “cutting the green crap” to forcing us to take on crap green. That is essentially what we are doing here.

It is an adding of potentially unlimited expense for a commodity which will play a role—I am not completely against the use of hydrogen for certain applications—but the idea that it will be used at scale for homes is completely ludicrous. It is therefore absolutely right that we limit the levy to the people who will benefit from its use. That will not be consumers and certainly not electricity bills. What we want is cheaper electricity. I am confident that electricity will soften as we get off fossil fuels and rely more on more predictable and stable forms of electricity generation, such as nuclear, offshore wind and a whole panoply of ways of making electricity that we can control more easily than relying on imported gas. Those costs will soften, and we want to keep them cheap because that will enable us to electrify whole other segments of the economy.

So I absolutely support limiting this levy to gas, whether that is by saying it should be gas shippers or removing the reference to electricity, as my Amendment 55 does—I am completely agnostic on that, but the issue is fundamental. I will quote from a briefing that some of us may have received from E.ON, a big provider of energy which quite cleverly split itself into a clean electricity part and a not-so-clean one. The clean part says clearly that “recovering the costs of these new technologies through electricity bills is regressive and difficult to justify considering the soaring cost of living and the potential benefits of these technologies to individual consumers are uncertain. It is damaging that the Bill allows the Government to recover the costs of hydrogen revenue through electricity suppliers and, therefore, electricity consumers.” I fully support that and I have to say that my amendment was tabled before I read the briefing.

I considered striking out the whole levy with a clause stand part debate, but I thought that might be more the approach of the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, so in Amendment 56 I am simply saying that there should be a sunrise to delay us rushing into adding more costs. The amendment proposes that the regulations should not be brought in until 6 April 2026. Amendment 57 simply states that a financial impact assessment must be made available if and when this levy starts to be added to bills.

My guess is that the use of hydrogen will be limited. It will be very expensive and it is very inefficient, so the costs should not and will not be borne in time. But I am worried that in this Bill we seem to be diverting towards a distraction and risking an illogical transition which will slow us down and add costs unnecessarily. That is damaging to the net-zero cause and to people’s confidence in this transition. We should therefore be very circumspect on this levy provision; we should be narrowing its application and slowing it down. I hope that the Government will consider this, because I am sure they have read the science and understand the physics as well as everybody else. It really ought to be limited.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I think we are all trying to achieve the same thing here. As the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, said, maybe we need to take this forward as a way to do it. The cost to consumers is absolutely central at the moment, and this is not a short-term thing—it is at least medium term. Later we will come to an amendment which says we should repeal the Nuclear Energy (Financing) Act, which was all about raising costs to consumers in the short term and has nothing to do with nuclear power otherwise.

In my amendment, I am trying to do something very similar to what has already been debated: if we are going to accept this levy—we know levies are always very contentious when implemented in terms of who has to pay for them and who gets the benefits from them, which leads to a lot of argument—it is quite clear that for hydrogen there is only a very limited sector of organisations, people and population who will actually benefit from it. In its own way, my amendment seeks to prevent other consumers who are not benefiting from hydrogen having to pay for that investment.

It is very much in line with other Members’ amendments and it is absolutely fundamental to the messages that we as a Parliament, and the Government, are putting out at the moment to consumers and company users of energy. Let us make sure that, if we have this levy, it is kept to those who benefit from hydrogen rather than those outside who do not.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank the noble Lords, Lord Lennie and Lord Teverson, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Worthington and Lady Blake, for their amendments relating to the hydrogen levy provision. Before turning to the amendments, let me make the general point that these provisions in the Energy Bill will not, as all noble Lords are aware, immediately introduce this levy; they will only enable government to introduce the levy later through secondary legislation.

I will start with Amendments 52, 54 and 62 in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake. Amendments 52 and 54 seek to limit the energy market participants that could be obliged to pay any future hydrogen levy to gas shippers only. The Government intend that the levy would initially be placed on energy suppliers, and it will operate in a similar way to the existing levy schemes, where revenue support is funded through energy supplier obligations, such as the supplier obligation that funds the current contracts for difference regime. That is because these funding mechanisms are well understood by the private sector and have been extremely successful. The Government consider that establishing a similar levy would provide investors and developers with confidence to invest in low-carbon hydrogen production projects.

The option to levy gas shippers has been included with the intention to allow for a greater range of options for future levy design. The Government anticipate that the costs of any future levy on gas shippers would be passed through the energy supply chain and ultimately on to energy users, in a similar way to existing supplier obligations. It is unlikely therefore that these amendments would have the effect of preventing costs associated with the levy being passed on to households.

I turn to Amendment 62, which seeks to guarantee the return of overpayments of the levy to energy customers. The Government’s intention, and our expectation, would be that, in the event of overpayment by relevant market participants, those sums would be returned to market participants, who in turn should then pass them on to their customers.

Amendment 53, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, seeks to ensure than an obligation to pay a hydrogen levy would, where possible, be placed only on those who would directly benefit from the low-carbon hydrogen production funded by the levy. Low-carbon hydrogen could support decarbonisation across the economy, which could benefit gas and electricity customers generally.

The powers that we have in the Bill provide options for where a hydrogen levy might be placed in the energy value chain, enabling future regulations to make provisions requiring one or more descriptions of gas suppliers, electricity suppliers and/or gas shippers to pay the levy. The Government have not yet reached a decision regarding which types of market participants will be obliged to pay the levy. That decision will be taken in due course and will no doubt be discussed in our Lordships’ House during the course of the secondary legislation that would be required to implement it. The decision will take into account a wide range of considerations, including but not limited to considerations related to fairness, which I know are the focus of the amendments tabled by the noble Lords. Given the Government’s approach to policy development on this levy, I hope that noble Lords recognise the amendment is unnecessary.

I turn to Amendments 55, 56 and 57, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington. Amendment 55 seeks to ensure that an obligation to pay a hydrogen levy administrator could not be placed on electricity suppliers. I would contend that it is crucial that the provisions in the Bill allow for a range of options for where the levy might be placed to help enable the Government to future-proof the levy over the longer term and accommodate changes to the wider energy market.

As I alluded to earlier, we expect low-carbon hydrogen to play an important role in decarbonising the electricity sector. This provides support to the case for including electricity suppliers as a possible point of obligation for the levy. I understand the concern expressed by the noble Baroness and, if she will allow me, I will take this away and possibly revisit it at Report, but I hope she will not press her amendment.

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[Baroness Worthington (CB)]

I shall move Amendment 59 and speak to Amendments 60 and 61, in my name and that of the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, who sends his apologies. He had a diary clash, but assures me that he is fully supportive of this discussion. In fact, he informed he that he was around when the very first CfDs were used as private contracts, a long time ago, and is very keen that they remain a trusted and respected form of investment, hence he was keen to lend his name.

These are obviously probing amendments, designed to start a discussion about the need to preserve integrity in the CfD mechanism. The UK deserves huge credit for having introduced this mechanism, which is seen as investable and a dependable way of getting large investment into decarbonised infrastructure—something we all need.

It is regrettable that there is now a set of circumstances whereby contracts, once awarded, are not being taken up. The reason they are not being taken up is that market prices are currently so high that if you took on your contract for difference, you would be required to pay back into the fund anything above your strike price. Some of these contracts have been awarded at around £55, £59 or £60 per megawatt hour—market prices are way above that—so people are choosing not to take up the contract and to delay.

Now, I am aware of three wind farms that have currently delayed this for these reasons. It makes perfect sense for them: they are representing shareholder value and possibly could not do otherwise, because of the existence of a loophole, which is that there is no requirement to take up the contract once it is awarded. What we want to try to do is close that loophole and, if possible, do something about it in the current time. Amendments 59, 60 and 61 all seek to do that.

It is important to note that these three wind farms—I do not want to overblow this; it is not everybody—are all in foreign ownership. Ørsted, RWE and EDP Renewables in Spain own these sites. It is public money that they are essentially not giving back, having got this contract. It feels very wrong, at the time of a cost of living crisis, when we need every penny, for hundreds of millions of pounds to be lost to these companies and their shareholders as a result of this loophole in how the contracts are drafted and can then be delayed.

I am sure that the Government are working hard to try to address this too. It strikes me that we have an Energy Bill and can therefore get this right for future contracts, but if we can also do something about current contracts, that would be enormously beneficial. I thank Carbon Brief for helping me understand how many wind farms are involved in this: they are Hornsea Two, Triton Knoll and Moray East, I am told by an article in the Times, just to get that on the record in Hansard. If the Government know differently, and if they can tell us exactly the extent of the problem, that would be super helpful, because we have not been able to find it from official sources. This is, as I say, from research by Carbon Brief. If the noble Lord, Lord Howell, were here, I am sure he would say how keen he is for this to be resolved. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

The history of contracts for difference is longer than I thought; I thank the noble Baroness for mentioning that. They became a big thing in the last Energy Act during the coalition Government and have been amazingly successful. I have to admit that I did not realise that this issue was quite so significant, but it is interesting that, given the financial investment required for offshore wind farms and the time they often take to implement and build, this is a case where the risk goes up for the financial investor, as opposed to a low-risk contract for difference. I am therefore also interested to understand from the Minister whether these businesses are just delaying until they see the lay of the land and whether they still have those options, because there is that risk-reward ratio.

I very much support the intention of this amendment, but the energy industry has also talked about contracts for difference being a way forward even in the fossil fuel industry, and a way that we could decouple power prices from gas prices. It may be that the Government are not doing anything in that area, but I am interested to understand whether that is something the department is investigating as a way forward on that decoupling.

Contracts for difference are a fantastic invention. As the Minister said, at the moment they are bringing good money back into the public sector—technically into the counterparty company, but effectively into the public finances. I very much support the motivation of this amendment.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, we are also very supportive of contracts for difference and of this attempt to ensure that contracts entered into are adhered to. I was not quite sure whether the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, had the total number of these failures to enter the contracts, other than the three she cited, which is probably enough. Maybe the Minister could help with that if she does not have that information.

The only thing that concerns me is that, although I cannot think of what it could be, there might be some reasonable exemption for not signing up. However, apart from that, it seems to me entirely sensible to tighten this obligation.

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We have already announced that we will move to annual CfD auctions, bringing forward the next round to March 2023. The Government therefore believe that the current legal provisions that exclude non-compliant applicants are proportionate and effective, and do not require further strengthening.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

I hope I am not pre-empting the noble Baroness, but are the Government then going to use those powers?

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

In law, the Government have the power to use them. I am afraid I am not able to comment on what action we might take on the three specific cases which the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, mentioned, but as I said, I will take that back to the department and write to noble Lords to set out whatever action is being proposed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Worthington (CB)]

I thank the Minister for her reply. I have not been clear enough; it is entirely my fault. These are not non-delivery instances. These are instances in which a wind farm is completed, has a CfD and then delays the actual mechanic of the strike price by a certain number of months or years. In doing so, they are ensuring that they can sell at merchant value now and then take up the strike price when the prices fall. Essentially, they have de-risked completely, so that we are carrying all the downside risk and they are taking all the upside risk. That is not how a CfD works. Three of them are doing this, so my fear is that this has almost become quite a clever standard practice. If it persists, this is hundreds of millions of pounds that could be coming back. It completely undermines the integrity of the whole process. So it is not the non-delivery or refusal to sign—I understand that all those provisions are there—it is the delaying out. There is nothing government or the LCCC can use to compel them to take it up at the point of signing. It is on that that I would love to receive a note.

We are obviously going to come back to this. It is all in the interests of getting value for money, keeping up the reputation of this sector and making it as full of integrity as we can. I will withdraw the amendment, but I look forward to continuing the conversation.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

This is something that I suspect we all hold the same view on. Could the Minister write to us to clarify the situation before Report? That would be very useful. It seems to me that we are all on the same side on this.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I am happy to agree to that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that. When I read the Bill, I looked at Chapter 2, entitled “Decommissioning of carbon storage installations”. My first question was: is not carbon storage all about being permanent? How the heck do you decommission a big hole under the North Sea and move all the carbon dioxide somewhere else? I do not want to understand the detail of this—if the Minister wants to accuse me of being thick or stupid about this, I can take it—but what installations for carbon capture and storage will be decommissioned and where the carbon will go. I should like to understand the scenarios so that I can understand how this part of the Bill works.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

I should also be interested to know that. First, may I say to the new Leader of the House that I would strongly recommend the reappointment of the noble Lord, Lord Callanan. That probably does him no favours at all, but that is just how it is. Secondly, I was going to set out a hypothetical situation about an oil and gas plant—