Leaving the European Union

Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, has been getting up since the beginning. We ought to hear from him and then from the noble Lord and, indeed, from Wales.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

That is generous of the noble Lord. If and when this latest version of the Government’s deal fails, why do they not offer EU citizens a very simple alternative deal: continuing free trade under the World Trade Organization, which would get rid of the Irish border problem; continuing reciprocal residence for, say, two years; and going on with programmes such as Erasmus but as a sovereign nation? Why do the Government feel bound to prolong their hopeless negotiations with the Commission under clause 2 of Article 50 when Brussels has broken clause 1 by not allowing us to regain our sovereignty and has no intention of doing so? Why do we not team up with the people of Europe, to our mutual benefit and friendship?

European Council

Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts

Thursday 11th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

Perhaps the House can hear from the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, and then from the noble Lord, Lord Cormack.

[Lord Lilley]

Does my noble friend recall that the one proposal that won majority support in the House of Commons was the Brady amendment to replace the Irish protocol by an invisible Irish border? Since then, Mr Barnier, Mr Tusk and Mr Varadkar have all said that, in the event that we leave without a deal, there will be an invisible Irish border. More recently, the current chairman of the CDU and future chancellor, AKK—potentially the most powerful woman in Europe —has said that nobody in Europe would stand in the way if we asked for a few extra days to negotiate an invisible border in Ireland. Why are the Government not pursuing the Brady amendment, or the Malthouse compromise, which I understand has never been put to the European Commission, or taking up the idea suggested by AKK? Do we think that our views of what the Europeans will do are more relevant than hers?

Business of the House

Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts

Thursday 4th April 2019 Lords Chamber

6.45 pm

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, for the convenience of the House, I would like to make a short Statement that may be of benefit following an agreement within the usual channels regarding the stages of the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 5) Bill. We have agreed that Second Reading will take place today after the Motions in the name of my noble friend Lord Forsyth of Drumlean. Committee, Report and Third Reading will take place on Monday 8 April. Proceedings on Monday should be concluded in a timely fashion to allow the House of Commons to consider any amendments made by this House. The Public Bill Office will therefore be accepting amendments between 10 am and 4 pm tomorrow, Friday 5 April. A Marshalled List will be produced tomorrow evening and the Government Whips’ Office will group amendments in the usual way ahead of Monday’s consideration of the Bill. After consideration of the Motion, it may be advisable to adjourn during pleasure for 20 minutes to allow noble Lords to receive a speakers’ list for Second Reading.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

My Lords, I appreciate that the hour is late and the House is anxious to get on with Second Reading. This is the first and, I suspect, the last time that I shall say, “God bless the usual channels”. I think that this is a sensible arrangement in the circumstances, since the debates on my committee reports would certainly run to two hours; with apologies to those who put their names down to speak in them, the Chief Whip, in a moment of weakness, promised me a decent slot as a replacement in the future. I therefore withdraw my Motions so that we will have time for Second Reading.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, Back-Benchers have a right to speak as well on this matter. I have sat through every minute of today’s debate and have seen the filibustering tactics of some of the Members opposite. The Government Chief Whip said that he expects the subsequent stages of the Bill to be concluded on Monday. As he knows, they have to be concluded by a certain time. Is he giving a guarantee that they will be concluded by that time? Otherwise, we will be double-crossed again.

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I have had the word of my companions in the usual channels on conduct. I have also had the word of a number of my colleagues behind me. I assure the noble Lord that business will be conducted in a proper manner that is fitting to this House, which is trying to do its best to deal with an important piece of legislation. I must also advise—as the noble Baroness probably recognises—that it is necessary for us to move the Business of the House Motion. It will not be opposed by us.

The House of Commons will remain open until it receives a message from this House on Monday. There is no time limit, but there is obviously a moment of convenience for the House. I suggest that we would look to finish around 8 pm, because I am fairly certain that amendments will be made to the Bill during Committee, after which we have Report and Third Reading. So this agreement has not been made out of the air; it has been made in consultation with all aspects of the usual channels here and in the House of Commons, and so I spoke with authority when I gave my statement. I confirm that it is necessary for us to proceed, to have the Business of the House Motion pressed by the noble Baroness in whose name it stands.

Business of the House

Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts

Thursday 24th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, in the absence of my noble friend, I beg to move the Motion standing in her name on the Order Paper.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I apologise to the House for delaying it momentarily on this issue. Would the Chief Whip care to confirm—in case it arises in today’s debates—that the assertion that privy counsellors take precedence in debate in this House, or against other Members of the House when trying to intervene, is not in fact correct? Will he also confirm that this is a self-regulating House, where privy counsellors, unlike in the other House, take their turn with other Members?

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

I confirm what the noble Baroness has said. This is a House of Peers; we are all equal. There are two Benches which by tradition have been taken for privy counsellors, but they confer no additional status on those sitting on them, or any other privy counsellors who happen to be sitting in the House.

Motion agreed.

Business of the House

Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts

Wednesday 9th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That Standing Order 30 (No Lord to speak more than once to a Motion) be suspended in respect of the debate on the motion in the name of Lord Callanan relating to section 13(1)(c) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to enable those members who spoke to the motion in the same terms on Wednesday 5 or Thursday 6 December to do so again.

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, I beg to move the Motion standing in the name of my noble friend the Leader of the House. In doing so, I should say that the Motion, if agreed to unamended, would allow those noble Lords who spoke on 5 or 6 December, to do so again if they so wish. Given the way the previous debate was abruptly curtailed, before any of the winding speeches had been heard, and following representation from Members on all sides of the House, who spoke previously, it would seem to me to be the sensible thing to do. I beg to move.

Amendment to the Motion

Tabled by

Privileges and Conduct Committee

Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts

Monday 17th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness D’Souza (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, it is the Lib Dems’ turn to speak.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Macdonald of River Glaven (Non-Afl)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, we should hear from the Cross Benches. I remind noble Lords that it is not customary to address the House for 20 minutes in an ordinary, non-time-limited debate. I believe shorter speeches would be welcomed by the House.

[Noble Lords]

Hear, hear!

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, I suggest we hear from the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, and then my noble friend Lady Shackleton.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss]

My Lords, your Lordships will be relieved to hear that I have cut out almost everything I was going to say, but I wish to say something about the future. I do not apologise for this, as I wrote to the chairman of the Committee for Privileges and Conduct three weeks ago, and have not yet had a reply. As a result, I need to say it here, in case it is not taken seriously.

The committee may, and I say this respectfully, have underestimated the difficulty of making a decision on serious issues of credibility in cases where the parties give diametrically opposing accounts of what happened and what was said. I do not believe, however, that it is necessary to have an adversarial system, so I disagree with the noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham. The current process, put in place by the Committee for Privileges and Conduct of this House, is entirely right. In most cases—for instance, the recent cases of financial misconduct—it is entirely appropriate for the commissioner to deal with the case by herself. There will be other types of case that will be equally appropriate for the commissioner. I have enormous respect for her—I know her well, and chaired the QC panel, of which she was an important member.

When I wrote to the chairman, I suggested that in future cases with serious conflicts of interest, where the credibility of the parties and witnesses is disputed, the commissioner would be helped by involving an experienced QC, who would ask the questions. Where appropriate, and tactfully—certainly in relation to the complainant—the QC could ask sufficient questions to test the case against the respondent, as well as cross-examine the witnesses and the respondent to see how the case and the defence stand up. I am not criticising Jasvinder Sanghera—I know her well, and admire the work she does—and did not criticise her in my last speech. The House must recognise that where serious allegations are denied, they will arise again in relation to Members of this House. This will not be the only case, and we must be ready to deal with future cases with the 21st century method of due process and natural justice.

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[Baroness Young of Hornsey (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

We will hear from the noble Lord, Lord McNally, and then from—

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

Business of the House

Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts

Tuesday 20th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That the debate on the motion in the name of Lord Callanan set down for today shall be limited to 5 hours.

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend the Leader of the House I beg to move the Motion standing in her name on the Order Paper.

In moving this Motion, I should remind the House about the reasons for the offer of time today, which I am delighted to see has been readily taken up by noble Lords. The provision of time this afternoon was a recognition by all parts of the usual channels that an additional 20 minutes for Back-Bench questions and answers last Thursday would not have been an adequate amount of time for noble Lords to discuss an issue of such importance as the draft withdrawal agreement. Last night we amended the Motion before the House to provide for five hours rather than the initial four that were proposed, which should ensure that noble Lords have four minutes each if all noble Lords observe it. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, and others for their understanding as we rearranged some of the business due to be taken today to make room for the debate.

I am probably stating the obvious to say that this afternoon’s debate serves as additional time in lieu of extending the time for the Statement last week. This House will have a substantive debate on the deal itself when it is finalised, likely stretching over several days. I beg to move.

Motion agreed.

Brexit: Negotiations

Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts

Thursday 15th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, we have not heard from the Cross Benches; I think we ought to hear from them.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss]

Perhaps the Minister can tell me what is meant by the letter from Mr Raab, which said that he could not support the declaration because,

“the regulatory regime proposed for Northern Ireland presents a very real threat to the integrity of the United Kingdom”,

whereas the Statement from the Prime Minister says that,

“the EU proposal for a Northern Ireland-only customs solution has been dropped and replaced by a new UK-wide temporary customs arrangement”.

Which is the situation?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

The House will know that there is a limited amount of time. We ought to hear from the Liberal Democrat Back Benches.

[Baroness Ludford]

My Lords, the Statement says that,

“the broad terms of our future relationship”,

have been agreed in the outline political declaration. How can the Minister justify that assertion when that very short outline is nothing more than a shopping list? There are hardly any verbs in it. For instance, on fisheries, which my noble friend mentioned, it talks about the aim of the,

“establishment of a new fisheries agreement on, inter alia, access to waters and quota shares”.

That tells us nothing about the detail, which is a crucial issue. Can the Minister explain how on earth we are going to get from this to something more substantive in the next week or so? What is the process? At the moment there is no flesh on the bones.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, it is Labour’s turn to speak.

[Lord Lea of Crondall]

The Minister lays great stress on what might be summarised as “There is no alternative”—a phrase that we have heard somewhere before. This slogan is patently inaccurate. I know that the Minister would like it to be the case, but is she not obliged to consider alternatives as they are presented?

Business of the House

Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts

Thursday 1st November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That the debates on the motions in the names of Baroness Massey of Darwen and Lord Bassam of Brighton set down for today shall each be limited to two and a half hours.

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, in the absence of my noble friend the Leader of the House, I beg to move the Motion standing in her name on the Order Paper.

Motion agreed.

NATO Brussels Summit 2018

Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts

Monday 16th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord was not in the Chamber to hear the Statement, so should really not participate.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, in future we probably all need to spend a lot more on defence and security in the wider sense, not just on military equipment. Has my noble friend noticed that, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies, America spends $31 billion a year of its total defence budget of $680 billion—about 5%—on European defence? Has she also noticed that America pays into NATO’s direct expenses common funding budget about 22%? Does she agree that those figures are miles away from those of 70% and 90% that the President talked about in Brussels? He understands hard facts and believes in strong dealing. Will she make sure that he is in this case presented with the hard facts—in the friendliest possible way, of course?