Freedom of Speech

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts

Friday 10th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury for securing this timeless debate and for his excellent speech. Indeed, it should have been evidence to the Joint Committee on online harms; I hope that he will consider forwarding it to the members, who might well be inspired. I declare an interest as a member of both that committee and the Communications and Digital Committee of your Lordships’ House.

The Joint Committee on the Draft Online Safety Bill agreed its report at 10 o’clock this morning; it will be published next Tuesday. It has been a very good experience, along the lines of what has already been referenced in this debate, in terms of working well together, the collegiate nature of what we were about and the determination, despite the limited time that we were allocated, to report in the best interests of the public. The report is embargoed so I and the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, who will speak later, cannot quote or anticipate it, but I think that noble Lords will be able to read in what I am about to say one or two of the things that may well appear on Tuesday—do not tell the chair.

The report attempts, I hope successfully, to deal holistically with the issues already raised by several Members of your Lordships’ House on how to protect freedom in the digital world and counteract the adverse impact on freedom of expression that arises from the systemic risks created—and they are created—by the social media companies themselves in pursuit of their business plans. It is true that the online world has revolutionised our lives; the underlying systems, designed to service business models, shape the way in which we experience it.

As the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury said, algorithms decide what we see, hear and experience, like it or not. Keeping users online, regardless of what they are looking at, is the true business aim of the companies involved. This can result in amplifying the false over the true, the extreme over the considered and the harmful over the benign. There are of course huge benefits from this brave new world, but there is a human cost, which can sadly be counted in events in Myanmar, in the persistent failure to raise the level of vaccination against Covid-19, in mob violence on Capitol Hill and in children and vulnerable adults being damaged by exposure to illegal content.

Based on the evidence that we saw during the committee’s work, it is my view that, for far too long, online services have argued that they should not be held accountable for the design of their services and that regulation should not be applied to mitigate the risks presented by the content and activity that society has deemed unacceptable. This must change. I hope that our report will start that process. Because of the embargo, I cannot say more, but I am sure the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, will be able to add a little more for your Lordships’ delectation and delight later in the debate.

I will use the rest of my time to talk about a particular problem related to the world that we are now entering, namely the retention of our records, so that we can learn from the experiences that we are all having online. Noble Lords will be aware of statutory deposit, which has existed in this country since 1662 and is well known. It obliges publishers to place at least one copy of everything that they publish physically in the UK and Ireland, from books to music and maps, at one of the six designated copyright libraries.

When I was director of the British Film Institute, I led a campaign to extend statutory deposit to moving image material, because I believed that that also has a lot to contribute to our knowledge and understanding of the world. As a result—it was only a partial success, I am afraid—we have extensive collections of broadcast television, held in the BFI National Archive at Berkhamsted. The BBC archive is also well maintained and looked after and we should be grateful for that. The situation for film and sound recordings is less satisfactory, as all the material in the collections is deposited on a voluntary basis and the collections are therefore not complete.

In 2013, the Government introduced new regulations that required digital publications to be systematically preserved. Since then, the six designated copyright libraries have automatically collected UK websites at least once a year to gather a snapshot of what they contain. Some important websites, such as news sites, are collected daily. They also collect e-books, electronic journals and videos, so we have a good collection of this material, but it is a tiny fraction of the material that we all know is available on the internet. You cannot base knowledge and research, or indeed future policy, on snapshots.

Access to this material is extremely limited: historic pages for only 19,000 or so websites can be accessed through the UK Web Archive’s online portals, in person at the copyright libraries and only after explicit permission has been granted by the creators to allow access—if they can be traced. The framework also permits only one researcher to use a piece of material at any one time, which is surely a rather otiose limitation when talking about digital materials.

When he comes to respond, I hope that the Minister will accept that there is an issue here that needs further investigation and that action will be needed to ensure that the record of the internet and the impact that it undeniably has on all our lives, for good or ill, is not being ignored in the process of learning from it. I would be happy to meet him to discuss this point if he thinks that that would be helpful.

National Lottery

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts

Wednesday 14th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Earl makes a very interesting point. I know that all the lottery distributors pride themselves on their ability to reach deeply into communities and to make those local connections.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the National Lottery is a significant success and enjoys huge public support. Research shows that there is also public support for other national lotteries, such as the Postcode Lottery. Will their needs for greater parity of prize money and reach be reconsidered so that more funds can be made available for good causes?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord will be aware that we are planning to carry out a review of society lotteries, to which he refers. It will be an early check based on evidence to see whether the increased limits have had the intended impact and that the limits are enabling the sector to increase the proportion that goes to good causes.

Charities Bill [HL]

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts

Wednesday 7th July 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I refer to my charitable interests as outlined in the register, and I would also like to share with the Committee that I have worked with charities for most of my life and have some experience of large ones and some smaller ones. This has informed what I want to say today. I am grateful for the briefings we received, the Library produced a very good note and the NCVO and other organisations pulled together some helpful thoughts.

The Minister said that the Bill is seeking to make a series of changes that will make it easier for charities to navigate the law and carry out their functions effectively while retaining important safeguards. We broadly support what she says on this. The Bill does achieve that, although it has taken a long time to reach the point where we can see it turning into law. I hope that making it easier for charities to amend their governing documents, dispose of land and use their resources more effectively will be a useful change to the work that goes on, day in, day out, across the country in all our various wonderful charities.

However—I think I picked this up from contributions already made—I wonder whether the Bill goes far enough. In some senses, we seem to have the worst of both worlds. We have a relatively weak regulator, which is heavily burdened and not well resourced to do the sort of job it has. It has had, it could be said, a pretty poor reputation in recent years, although it has improved. The Bill is a missed opportunity to rectify some of those issues, but it is wrong to try to change too much in this Bill—we probably do have to wait for another opportunity—but I think we will regret that. The noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, and others have pointed out some of the issues that still need to be addressed.

I have only a few small points to make about the detail, but I think they will be picked up in Committee. I am a bit surprised that we still have a number of different modes of operating charities. This raises issues in itself, although there are one or two that catch the eye more than others. I am referring here to royal chartered bodies, which are also charities. There is a case for considerable overregulation, and it is no longer the case that royal charters are providing the sort of support and ring-fencing they perhaps would have done before. The classic is the BBC, with its royal charter and charitable functions underlying all it does, yet it is subject to regular approaches by Governments of all parties, but primarily Conservative Governments, and does not seem to get the protection that its charitable status might once have suggested. There is nothing in this Bill that would allow us to look at that, but it needs to be picked up at some point as we go forward.

The second point is on fundraising: the Bill does a good job in introducing greater flexibility for charities with regard to fundraising appeals, the way the Bill sets out what happens if a fundraising appeal is either too successful or too unsuccessful will help move forward and cy-près has already been mentioned by a number of speakers. However, the supporting documentation states that there is a need to monitor the process going on here, and we may have worries about how this is going to operate in practice. I could not see how that was going to be done in practice. I wonder whether when she responds the Minister could mention that and explain what is intended.

Enough has been said on permanent endowments; I do not need to go into that. The power to use permanent endowments to make social investments is a really important change in the way we are going forward, and others have mentioned that as well. The new power moves a long way towards where most charities would want to be, which is not being tied to the value-for-money constraints that have so often bedevilled what they have wanted to do, but it does not go far beyond where they might want to get to. It does not go further down that line, in the sense that it does not raise too many dangers. Monitoring will be important here, and, again, it would be useful if the Minister could respond on that point.

I have a very minor point on ex gratia payments: when I read the Bill the first time, I was a little struck by what exactly is going on here, and I still do not quite understand the argument that says this allows charities to honour moral obligations. I do not think moral obligations feature in much of the law of the land. Morally, we are probably wanting to do lots of things, but we are restrained by the law of the land and other conventions. Again, when she comes to respond, could the Minister explain where this fits into the great scheme of things, perhaps giving us some examples of where moral payments might be a useful addition to the range of things for which trustees have responsibility? I am not against it in principle; I am just a bit confused about where it will take us in the great scheme of things.

On the payment of trustees, if I recall correctly, the original report by the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, called for quite a radical change here: that the professionalism that could come from paying trustees should be considered. It is not in this Bill, and indeed was not accepted by the Government, but it is an important issue and should not go away. Payment for goods provided by trustees to their charities, where that is properly protected, above board and perfectly transparent, must be perfectly acceptable. There is a broader question about whether or at what point we should professionalise trustees and their role, particularly in the bigger charities. A charity with which I am involved is based in America and regulated under its rules, and there it is perfectly normal for trustees of charities to be paid and, indeed, for the chief executive of the charity also to be a trustee. It is a bit of a shock if you come from the British system and work on the American system. I am not saying that I necessarily think it is the right thing for all charities, but if it works well in one country—one territory—and serves the purposes of what they achieve by charitable objectives, it may be worth looking at.

Finally, on the issues that were rejected by the Government, even though they were accepted by the Law Commission, the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, has made a good case about seeking the permission of the Attorney-General. I look forward to seeing that when we come to Committee and to supporting him if he chooses to table an amendment in the way he has suggested.

Covid-19: Broadband

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts

Monday 5th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

It is within the role of Ofcom to monitor that effectiveness.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab) [V]]

The Minister said earlier that 100,000 homes would miss out on broadband access under the current plans. Does this mean that they will not even achieve the USO of 10 megabits per second, let alone the real target of a gigabit-enabled economy? Can she say when we will reach 100% coverage?

Channel 4: Funding and Governance

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts

Thursday 1st July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do not think it is anything to do with a melting ice sculpture. The Government are committed to having a thriving PSB sector. I know the noble Baroness understands full well what the trends are in advertising revenues for linear television. We are trying to address that and make sure that Channel 4 has a secure, sustainable and thriving future.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, in earlier eras, matters of important public policy such as this would have been preceded by Green Papers and White Papers before Parliament considered any primary legislation that it felt necessary. On broadcasting, this Government take a rather different approach, preferring to set up ad hoc advisory committees, such as the one looking at public service broadcasting. So what is it to be this time? Can the Minister spell out what the Government will do here and explain how Parliament is going to be involved?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord refers to the expert advice that Ministers will receive from the independent PSB panel but he overlooks the digital radio and audio review that we will be publishing this summer, the Ofcom review of PSBs that will be published in mid-July, and the consultation that we are carrying out on Channel 4 and video on demand, which will result in a White Paper and legislative proposals. I do not think that looks like taking decisions in secret.

Choirs: Restrictions

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts

Wednesday 30th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Lord’s tone expressed very well what many people feel. We absolutely hear that frustration. He will be aware that all ministerial and MPs’ inboxes are full of correspondence on this issue, so we are aware. We are also aware that some amateur groups perform in a professional context, as the noble Lord set out. As a department we cannot advise on individual events or activities. It is up to the organisers to operate in accordance with the published guidance.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

I think all of us share considerable dismay about the answers we have just heard. Although we feel sorry for the Minister for her attempts to try to add a veneer of respectability to her responses, neither the science nor the reality of common sense back her up. As a member of the Parliament Choir, I want to meet with other members in a socially respectable way to sing the music that inspires us and to lead our lives as close to normality as we can. What we want is a road map and a timescale.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I can only repeat what I said in response to an earlier question: we will provide that road map as soon as possible and in time for step 4.

Events Research Programme

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As I am sure the right reverend Prelate is aware, the Government are very concerned about, and keen to uphold, freedom of religion and expression. I will take back the specific question on religious events and write to him.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the parliamentary choir. Research into disease transmission is obviously very important, and I am sure that the results will be helpful for future planning. However, common sense should not be ignored. Can the noble Baroness now answer the question posed by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley:

“is it not utterly ridiculous that shouting, chanting and drinking fans can congregate and hug each other”—

and be seen on television doing that—

“but a small, amateur, vaccinated and socially distanced choir cannot meet to rehearse?”—[Official Report, 21/6/21; col. 18.]

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Obviously, the scenes that were broadcast of people singing in pubs around the events outside the scope of the pilot events are governed by step 3 of the road map, which is absolutely clear that such behaviour is not permitted.

Public Service Broadcasting (Communications and Digital Committee Report)

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts

Thursday 27th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, with his enormous experience as a very distinguished DCMS Minister. I encourage him to spend a bit more time sharing his experiences with us, since he clearly has a lot to say on some of the most topical issues, some of which we will discuss later. I declare my interest as a member of the Communications and Digital Committee, although, like the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, I was not a member when this excellent report was published. I also declare my interest as a former director of the British Film Institute.

Like others, I thank the committee’s chair, the noble Lord, Lord Gilbert, for his fine introduction of the report and his excellent questions, which I hope the Minister will respond to at the end of the debate. I also echo the noble Lord’s concerns about the delay in debating this important report. The committee system of your Lordships’ House is one of its absolute crown jewels, and it is extraordinary that we have had to wait so long for a debate on an issue such as this. The good thing is that it is still timely, although that may not be true for some of the other reports waiting in the queue. I also welcome my noble friend Lady Merron to our Front Bench and thank her for covering the important DCMS brief.

Given the time constraints and the fact that I was not then part of the committee, I will focus on two important issues touched on in the report that may not get much attention today: archiving and the process for setting the BBC licence fee. Having said that, I welcome the Government’s general approach—they share

“the Committee’s view about the importance of public service broadcasting … and its continued relevance”.

Together with evidence from Ofcom that shows that PSB programming remains popular and is valued by UK audiences, that provides a very good basis for the proper debate and discussion that I hope will accompany the light-touch mid-term review of the current BBC charter and the licence fee settlement negotiations for 2022 to 2027.

First, on the BFI national film and TV archive, the report says it is important that UK TV programmes of cultural significance are preserved for future generations. It also recommends that:

“The Government should broaden the requirement to provide programmes to and fund the BFI National Archive to non-public service broadcasters and SVODs which produce content in the UK.”


The Government’s response is welcome but limited: they recognise that the remit of the BFI national film and television archive

“includes the preservation, restoration and dissemination of culturally British screen content”

and that

“this should include programmes and films produced or commissioned by non-public service broadcasters and SVoDs”.

These are fine words, but they will not achieve what is in essence a voluntary scheme. The response goes on to say:

“The Government hopes that these entities share a desire to contribute to British heritage in this way and strongly encourages these entities to entrust guardianship of their screen content to the BFI National Archive, making a ‘reasonable contribution’ to the BFI.”


But this is not the basis for a long-term sustainable plan.

PSBs currently pay £1.5 million per annum and contribute to various one-off projects, such as digitising legacy collections held on myriad obsolescent videotapes with fixed shelf lives, but the BFI needs much more. It is not given the statutory powers or funding it needs to achieve its aims. For example, there is no Sky output—despite the existence of loads of original UK productions —and no streamed TV in the BFI’s collections. Like it or loathe it, most people would expect to have the Netflix series “The Crown” in the national collection, but it is not there. There is no Amazon Prime and no Apple TV. Who is to be responsible for holding examples of material from YouTube and the wider web? Future historians will find that omission very strange indeed.

Unlike the public service broadcasters, none of these new players, streamers and content originators have to supply materials, with a contribution to costs, to the national archive. I believe that the long-term solution is a “statutory deposit” scheme, but there are other options that could achieve the desired outcome. I am glad that the Government say in their response that they

“will monitor progress in this regard”

and remain

“open to considering the full range of options to deliver this outcome, including statutory support for collecting as currently exists for the PSBs.”

This certainly would be welcome, and I would be grateful if the Minister could update us on that.

My second point is on how the BBC licence fee should be determined. The committee reaffirms a previous recommendation that there should be

“an independent and transparent process for setting the licence fee”,

and recommends that the Government should establish a BBC funding commission to oversee that process. I strongly support this proposal. The BBC licence fee is a tax, and as such should be levied by the Government, but the processes of negotiating a charter and of recommending a licence fee to ensure that the BBC has the resources to do what the charter asks of it should be separated and transparent. However, those of us who have had some involvement in the process know that this is not quite how it works. The connection between the two processes is indirect and shrouded in political pressures. The result of all this is bad not just for the BBC—which faces increasingly intolerable pressures to deliver what is expected of it without the right money, and faces threats to its operational autonomy and independence—but for the Government, because of a growing suspicion of unwarranted political interference in the BBC, and for viewers.

The Government say that they have

“no plans to introduce a licence fee commission”.

However, I note that the response also says that the Government will set out in more detail the processes to be followed in due course. I hope that the Minister can elucidate further on this issue when she comes to respond. I look forward to hearing from her.

Music Festivals: Covid-19-related Cancellations

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts

Tuesday 27th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I can reassure the noble Lord that we are in conversations with individual member states focusing particularly on improving guidance regarding entry and work permit regulations. We are also looking carefully at proposals for a new export office to support this sector.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the Budget extended the film and television insurance scheme to its present level of £2.8 billion, and it has supported 200 productions and saved an estimated 24,000 jobs. It therefore seems a little strange to recall that only yesterday the Minister said that the Government

“are trying to understand the market failure and how it impacts on different forms of live events.”—[Official Report, 26/4/21; col. 2074.]

She did not repeat that when she responded to the Question today. Will she explain what specific issues the department does not understand about this process?

Gambling: Early Mortality

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts

Tuesday 20th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate raises important points. He will be aware that Public Health England is doing research at the moment, looking at how to reduce gambling harms and how to recoup the costs to society, which I hope will go some way to reassuring him.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the excellent Select Committee report may not have endorsed the current split in policy leadership but it made it very clear that DCMS had a lot to do. In that context, can the Minister confirm that the online harms Bill will deal with underage gambling and issues raised by the question put by the right reverend Prelate, such as an association between gambling and early mortality—and if not, why not?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The main focus for addressing the issues that the noble Lord rightly raises is through our review of the Gambling Act. The online safety Bill, as he is aware, will focus on user-generated content in particular.