Queen’s Speech

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Wednesday 11th June 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

My Lords, what a privilege it is to share in this debate and to hear so many outstanding contributions. I would even use the word “awesome” to describe some of them. One feels, as a little Welsh lad from the hills, that it is a tremendous honour to be able to do this—and I am sure that I am not the only person to feel that. This House and the House of Commons over the years have done so much and been so wonderful in the lives of people. From the time of the Magna Carta through Wilberforce, to expanding the franchise and to recent legislation, we have moved from serfdom to citizenship—a tremendous move.

Individuals have benefited and are benefiting from the rights that we acquire and also from our obligations as citizens. Of course, we need to continue this so that each person in the UK has a sense of belonging and ownership. We must seek to make it possible for every individual to achieve his or her potential and become what they might be. We need a wide educational system, teachers who both inspire and enable and are themselves encouraged and recognised, so that from the early years youngsters grow up with the knowledge of our society and a desire to be part of it.

The Private Member’s Bill that I introduced yesterday is to encourage voter registration, especially among young people. At present, 6.2 million people in the UK aged between 16 and 24 are able to register to vote. How I hope that becoming a part of society and community will be highly valued not only in the UK but also in Europe itself, and that people will want to be part of the communities to which they belong. That Bill is going ahead. I referred to those 6.2 million people being able to register, but only 55% are registered and, of those, only 24% are certain to vote. We have a big job to do to make people feel that this is their country, that they have the last word and that they can themselves influence a policy.

We have the problem mentioned already this afternoon of how we relate citizenship to newcomers to the United Kingdom. That demands our attention, and not only as individual political parties. I am sure that the question could be tackled better together. We should find some way to work together in a positive way, as members of all parties and no parties, to bring about the relationship that we require—or rather, that we would desire, in the United Kingdom. Nowadays we are allowing a spirit of hostility to enter our existence and talk and so on, which will destroy our centuries-old record as a people who have welcomed those who are different from ourselves. There is nothing easier than a populist message; it is easily done, but it is so destructive in so many words and so many ways. When the Huguenots fled from France they were welcomed here. The Jewish people in 1937, 1938 and 1939 were welcomed to these shores as they fled the evil of Nazism. Folk from the Caribbean came here and supported our health service and transport service; they have contributed so much to us as a culture. Kenyan Asians came—and then we had the locals, as you might call them, from Ireland and Scotland, and even dairy farmers from Wales. About 40 years ago, I am told, there were 3,600 Welsh dairies in London. We came and were welcomed, and you could not do without us.

Every community that comes here contributes so richly to our wide culture. I would like the Minister to give me an assurance that nothing will be done to make it more difficult for us to be the beneficiaries of this wider culture, so that we can live together in a harmony that the rest of the world will envy.

Thames Garden Bridge

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Thursday 9th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Deighton]

With respect to the Heritage Lottery Fund, the fundraising programme has not yet begun. That is the job of the noble Lord, Lord Davies, and his team at the Garden Bridge Trust, and I am sure that they will approach every possible potential supply of money. With respect to replacing anything that is displaced by the bridge, I understand that that does not represent a logistical problem—but I do not have a specific answer, frankly, to the berthing question.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

Can the Minister assure me that, if this sort of money is available for this project, money will also be available, through one fund or another, to assist with the renovation of places such as Aberystwyth promenade that have been damaged so severely in the past few weeks by the winds, gales and flooding?

[Lord Deighton]

The general answer to that question has to be along the same lines. Just as this project still needs to pass the business case to be allocated the £30 million that is pencilled in, similarly we will do our work on other projects in a sensible way and respond to priority needs as they occur. I should just point out that the reason that the Treasury is putting in £30 million is that it is the sensible way to kick-start a fundraising effort. It is much easier to fundraise when people can see that the Government are behind a project and that it the first part of the funding has already been raised.

Welsh Government: Comprehensive Spending Review

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Thursday 4th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, I do not think that it is a question of jobs being lost in terms of the review. As I said, the capital budget for Wales is increasing. The resource budget for Wales will fall only very marginally in cash terms, by 0.4%, which is significantly less than the cut in the non-protected budgets of departments in the UK.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

My Lords, in view of the dreadful shortage of money that we have for health services—in north Wales, we had a meeting last week that might threaten the existence of one of our district general hospitals—could not the Barnett formula be immediately reviewed to bring some areas in Wales more up to date?

[Lord Newby]

My Lords, as noble Lords are aware, the Government have made it clear that we will not be reviewing the Barnett formula during this Parliament, at a point when we are sorting out the country’s finances.

National Insurance

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Monday 5th March 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, the subject of the Question is employers’ national insurance. By introducing the £21 a week above-indexation rise in the threshold, the Government benefited all employers by £3 billion a year through that very significant increase. Job creation in the private sector is in many ways very remarkable. Since the election over 500,000 new jobs have been created in the private sector, thus increasing employment, and only today Tesco announced 20,000-net new jobs in the UK over the next two years. We really must not run down what the private sector is doing to create new and sustainable jobs.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

My Lords, there are many reasons for youth unemployment, one of which is the present economic circumstance. However, we have seen a growth in youth unemployment over the past 10 or 15 years. What are the Government going to do about the long-term rate of youth unemployment, which will not be solved by these sticking-plaster proposals?

[Lord Sassoon]

I am grateful to my noble friend because, of course, when Labour came into office in 1997 the number of unemployed and inactive youngsters was around 1.4 million, and that is where it remains. My noble friend is quite right that there is a significant structural issue, which we have inherited, and that is why schemes such as the youth contract are so important in order to get our young people into sustained and sustainable employment.

Devolved Administrations: Financial Flexibility

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, the United Kingdom Parliament—this House and another place—was not consulted before an awful lot of spending decisions were taken. That is the way that Governments make spending decisions.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

My Lords, the Minister has, I think, criticised the Barnett formula. What plans does he have to bring in a different formula regarding Wales and Scotland?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, would I ever be so bold as to criticise the Barnett formula? The Barnett formula has been widely questioned, not least by the noble Lord, Lord Barnett, himself. However, the Government’s priority has to be stabilising the public finances. If, in due course, the formula is to be superseded, the challenge is that there is no consensus on how to measure needs, which would be required to bring in some needs-based formula.

Debt Relief (Developing Countries) Act 2010 (Permanent Effect) Order 2011

Lord Roberts of Llandudno Excerpts

Tuesday 17th May 2011 Grand Committee

[The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Sassoon)]

My Lords, the draft order before us today makes permanent the effect of the Debt Relief (Developing Countries) Act 2010. Perhaps it will assist the Grand Committee if I briefly explain the background to this order.

The Debt Relief (Developing Countries) Act 2010 prevents creditors of heavily indebted poor countries—the so-called HIPCs—recovering in UK courts an amount of debt in excess of that consistent with the HIPC initiative. The 2010 Act contains a sunset clause, which means that it will expire on 7 June 2011 unless an order is made to extend it. The Government support the order for two reasons. First, making the 2010 Act permanent will help achieve our aims for international development. Secondly, evidence suggests that the 2010 Act has had some benefit on HIPCs and no evidence has been found of unintended adverse effects.

The Government are committed to debt relief for the poorest countries. The coalition programme for government states that the coalition will accelerate the process of relieving HIPCs of their debt and review what action can be taken against vulture funds.

The HIPC initiative aims to ensure that no poor country faces a debt burden it cannot manage. Multilateral, bilateral and commercial creditors are all expected to provide the debt relief required to restore external debt sustainability to HIPCs. The majority of creditors provide debt relief consistent with the HIPC initiative. The 2010 Act tackles the problem of the small minority of commercial creditors that free-ride on the relief, litigating and recovering the full value of their debts plus accumulated interest and any associated charges owed to them. This behaviour is inequitable and economically inefficient. The resources implicitly siphoned off by such creditors include the debt cancellation and development assistance funded by UK taxpayers.

The sunset clause was added to the Act because there was a degree of uncertainty about the impact of the legislation. This inclusion was important given the lack of parliamentary time to scrutinise the Bill when it was passed last year and the lack of available evidence at that time about its likely impacts. I should pay tribute at this point to the noble Baroness, Lady Quin, for her sponsorship of the Bill last year. I am delighted to be opposed by her for the first time this afternoon—although I hope that her opposition will not run to opposing the draft order before us. I am grateful to her for indicating that it will not.

It is important that we have had, and have taken, the opportunity to assess the impact of the Act. The Government have consulted a wide range of organisations, including many of those that contributed to the 2009 public consultation—representatives of the international financial institutions, HIPC country Governments, the financial services sector, lawyers and civil society. There is no information to suggest that the Act has adversely affected the availability and cost of lending to HIPCs or other low-income countries. The tightly defined and limited scope of the legislation seems to have prevented this. Additionally, no evidence has been presented to the Government to suggest that the legislation has had an adverse impact on the UK as a centre for financial services or that it has resulted in changes in the choice of law and jurisdiction for financial contracts. However, evidence suggests that the 2010 Act has benefited HIPCs. This is illustrated by the recent case of Liberia.

In June 2010, Liberia received substantial debt relief under the HIPC initiative, including 100 per cent cancellation from the UK. Most of its commercial creditors also provided debt relief, assisted by a buy-back operation of commercial debt under the World Bank’s debt reduction facility in April 2009. In November 2009, the High Court gave judgment for $20 million against Liberia in a claim brought by two commercial creditors that had not participated in the debt buy-back operation. This allowed them to seek to enforce full repayment in the UK of an amount that was then equivalent to about 5 per cent of Liberia’s national budget. However, one year later, by which time the 2010 Act was in place, the two remaining commercial creditors agreed to a second World Bank debt buy-back operation. Consequently, Liberia will have to pay back only 3 per cent of the amount owed—an amount consistent with the HIPC initiative. It seems clear that the 2010 Act was one factor that prompted this settlement.

The order that we are debating makes permanent the effect of the Debt Relief (Developing Countries) Act 2010. Making the legislation permanent will help to achieve the Government’s aims for international development. As I explained, the 2010 Act has already been shown to have had a positive impact on HIPCs, preventing the diversion of resources provided through debt relief, which are intended to support development and poverty reduction; and no evidence has been found that it has had unintended adverse effects on low-income countries or on the UK. I therefore commend it to the Committee.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

My Lords, it is a pleasure for me on behalf of the Liberal Democrats to welcome the order and to thank those whose foresight brought it about. The Debt Relief (Developing Countries) Act 2010 had a sunset clause, as we have heard, which is now removed. The Act will become permanent, as it should.

In the original discussion on the 2010 Act, it was noted that it was a victory over the “vultures”—the private companies that bought bad debts and then demanded interest that ensnared poor countries in even greater poverty. They lost the battle; I am delighted about that. I will give one example. Donegal International bought $15 million-worth of Zambia’s debt for $3.3 million. It then demanded $55 million in the United Kingdom courts. It was eventually awarded $15.5 million. Even that was a profit of $12 million. However, this now will end. I pay tribute to the Jubilee Debt Campaign and to the churches, which all gave tremendous support for this debt relief step. The end of the sunset clause is in many ways the beginning of removing the threat from heavily indebted poor countries. Now possibly they will be able to breathe a little more freely and more hopefully. Once again I say that we are delighted to support the order.

[Baroness Quin]

My Lords, I am very pleased on behalf of the Opposition to welcome the order and to give it our wholehearted support. As the Minister noted, our support is unsurprising given that the Bill that became the Act began as a Private Member’s Bill in another place. It was sponsored by Andrew Gwynne, the Labour MP for Denton and Reddish. The Bill had the support of the Treasury, and both the Minister in the other place and my noble friend Lord Myners in this House spoke strongly in support of it in debates. I pay tribute also to Sally Keeble, the former Member for Northampton North, who worked hard on the Bill in the absence of Andrew Gwynne through illness. I worked closely with her in presenting the Bill in this House. Following the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Llandudno, I, too, pay tribute to those individuals and bodies outside Parliament who pushed for the legislation and provided material in support of it. In particular, I thank the Jubilee Debt Campaign, which has played a significant role.

Obviously, since I was the Member in this House who took over the Bill when it reached this place, I am glad to be able to welcome it today. I was delighted, although surprised, when it reached the statute book in the wash-up, particularly since it had previously encountered some opposition from Conservative Members in another place. I accept that, as part of the wash-up, it was somewhat frustrating to have to deal with the Bill at breakneck speed. At the time, all of us regretted the fact that we were not able to scrutinise it more effectively. Indeed, those who supported the Bill agreed to facilitate its passage by the inclusion of the sunset clause, which the Minister has mentioned, and which allowed the legislation to be reviewed after a year and thus provided an opportunity for its effects to be evaluated. However, although we accepted the sunset clause at the time, as strong supporters of the Bill we were uneasy that the legislation might cease to have effect after one year. This unease was particularly heightened by the opposition to it on the part of some Members in another place. I am therefore doubly delighted that the Government have decided to bring forward this order which will give permanent effect to the legislation.

At the time, some of the concerns related to unintended consequences and possible adverse effects which the Bill might have. These concerns were expressed to a certain extent by the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, when she spoke to the Bill on behalf of the then Opposition. She talked about her concern that the Bill would be likely to reduce the availability of private sector involvement in debt for heavily indebted countries in the future, and expressed her concern that it might involve a premium for the risk involved in dealing with those countries, and therefore might be more expensive. I am glad to say that the Treasury and the Government have now assured themselves that these fears have turned out to be unjustified. The example of Liberia, which the Minister quoted to us today, and which his colleague in another place quoted yesterday, is an interesting one because Liberia had been harmed by the operation of vulture funds and it seems that this legislation has had the effect of reducing Liberia’s debt burden in a way which does not seem to have threatened other countries. For that we ought to be very grateful and very pleased indeed.

The Bill, when it came through your Lordships’ House, had strong support from the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, and others on the Cross Benches, and indeed from the Liberal Democrat Benches, which has been reflected by the noble Lord, Lord Roberts, today. I accept the explanation that the Minister has given us today which sets out the reasons why the Government now wish to make this provision permanent in an Act. It will protect 40 of the world’s poorest countries from the actions of a minority of unscrupulous commercial creditors—although the Minister rightly stressed that it is a minority. It also helps to ensure that the debt relief and development aid provided by the UK and other donor countries, and therefore by our taxpayers, goes to help tackle poverty rather than provide profits for investors. That is something about which we should also express our satisfaction.

Given that the order is part of our overall strategy towards aid and development and of our relationship with some of the poorest countries in the world, the Minister might not be surprised if I allude to the story of the day about the Government’s aid policy—the question mark apparently raised by the Secretary of State for Defence about the Government’s commitment to reaching the aid target of 0.7 per cent of GDP. It would be good to get a very firm commitment from the Minister today that that commitment remains and that there is no slackening or weakening of the position.

Specifically on the order, my honourable friend Chris Leslie also asked about the cost of the consultation and the cost involved in bringing the order forward, to which there was no reply. I therefore wonder whether the Minister can give us an estimate of that. Chris Leslie's point, which I think is fair, was that, given that the measure was initially blocked in another place by Conservative Members, if we had had more discussion on the Bill earlier and allowed the issues to be more fully explored, the sunset clause, the consultation and other costs involved might have been averted.

However, I assure noble Lords that in asking those questions I do not want the Minister or anyone else to be in any doubt about how much we welcome the order. I conclude by once again thanking him and the Government and expressing the Opposition's pleasure that the measure is to become permanent.