Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Robathan and Mary Glindon

Monday 22nd October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)]

T6. Last Thursday, the House voted to oppose the disbandment of the 2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers. Will the Government now have the humility to accept that Commons decision?

[Mr Robathan]

May I say that we had an excellent debate? I have to say that I found myself in a minority of one when it came to speeches defending the Government’s position. We had an excellent debate and we listened carefully to what was said, but I do not think that, at the moment, it is the House’s intention for a vote in such a debate to be binding upon the Government.

2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers

Debate between Lord Robathan and Mary Glindon

Thursday 18th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Glindon]

Both those points strengthen the case for maintaining the 2RRF.

I have been proud to support the local campaign, which has received the kind support of the Newcastle Journal and the Evening Chronicle, which has been fantastic in helping to publicise the fight across our region. The veterans and the Fusiliers have played a massive role in promoting the campaign, and have organised two public events in Newcastle-upon-Tyne, which I have been honoured to attend.

It was at one of these events that the real impact of the Government’s decision hit home. I noticed among the honoured veterans and members of the public a young man standing particularly proud during the minute’s silence, in a way that no other civilian around him did. After the ceremony, as the crowds chattered and photographs were taken, I managed to speak to this young man. He told me that he had been a Fusilier, but that more than a year ago had had an accident and had to leave.

Fortunately, the young man has fully recovered, but he has not been able to find any work since leaving the Army. Shamefully, employers do not always seem keen to employ ex-soldiers. He told me that he would be eligible to re-apply to rejoin the Army in November, and that it was his greatest wish to resume his Army career in the 2nd Battalion. My heart went out to the young man and to all the other young people who, like generations before them, have wanted to serve their country in the military but who now have little prospect of ever being able to serve as full-time soldiers.

Former members of the Territorial Army are sceptical about the Secretary of State’s plans to replace full-time soldiers with an expanded reserve force. They gave me the example of the 6th Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, which had been a well-recruited and fully equipped, operational, NATO-role battalion, and which was recognised as one of the best in the country. The battalion was disbanded and became the Tyne-Tees Regiment in 1999, but it lost all its support weapons, which meant that associated skills were lost too. It now exists as the 5th Rifle Battalion, with only three companies and no support weapons. There is a severe shortage of officers and senior non-commissioned officers, and a lack of funding has meant no training and led to the deskilling of the battalion.

The fear is that disbanding regular units that are not immediately replaced by a reserve capacity creates a wide capacity gap—indeed, a gap in our entire national security. The campaign is clear in its aims. The 2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers has no trouble recruiting in London, Manchester, Birmingham or the north-east, as has been said. It is currently at full strength. The regiments that the Government are choosing to save have to recruit largely from foreign and Commonwealth troops. Our Government have said they are committed to British jobs for British people. Clearly in this instance they are not. The campaigners and supporters of the motion know that this is not a fair decision.

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

I should point out that the recruitment of foreign and Commonwealth troops took off under the last Government. There was a deliberate policy to recruit up to, I think, 10%. I should say that those troops do a very good job, most of them, and I pay tribute to them, but I do not think the hon. Lady should accuse us of in some way being illogical in this regard.

[Mrs Glindon]

I do not think I mentioned the Minister being “illogical”. The point is that those battalions are poorly recruited and have to go abroad, when in 2RRF we have the strength of the Army being made up from people who are local, as is the regimental tradition.Moreover, I would point out to the Minister that there has been criticism of the decision from top-ranking figures, who state that the abolition of the 2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers will not stand up to public scrutiny.

I stated at the beginning of my speech that the motion is not against the brave Scottish soldiers, which is true. However, in the north-east there is a fear that the referendum on Scottish independence will see the Government favouring Scotland over the north-east, in order to keep Scotland in the Union. I do not want to see Scotland leave the UK, nor do I want to see my region pay any economic or social price to ensure that we maintain the United Kingdom. The United Kingdom must be fair and honest to all its people, in all its regions. However, if Scotland becomes independent, it is possible that such a small country will not be able to sustain five battalions, nor will the remaining UK be able to be properly served by the 25 remaining battalions.

In summary, the feelings of everyone who supports the motion are expressed in the words of Major Chester Potts:

“‘Quo Fata Vocant’ (Whither the Fates call) is the regimental motto of the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers. Wherever the fates have called we have been there and shed our blood in the defence of the country. We have fought the nation’s enemies for nearly 350 years now. We never expected our greatest enemy, and architect of our demise would be our own Government.”

Armed Forces Covenant

Debate between Lord Robathan and Mary Glindon

Thursday 19th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for North Tyneside (Mrs Glindon) on securing this debate on the armed forces covenant. I have discussed the subject rather a lot over the last two years, so I know a certain amount about it.

I am delighted by the hon. Lady’s new-found interest in the covenant, and I am only sorry that she trotted out some old, incorrect and rather party political figures and arguments, because I had hoped that we could move on and discuss the positive achievements of the covenant. May I also correct her on the following point? We did not introduce the covenant into law because of any campaigns by anybody. It was a manifesto commitment, which was reiterated by the Prime Minister shortly after we took office.

[Mrs Glindon]

However, will the Minister acknowledge the part that the British Legion played?

[Mr Robathan]

I talk to the British Legion the whole time, of course. Indeed, I saw the chief executive on Monday at a conference. We work very closely together, although I am sorry that the Labour party has said that they will be issuing joint press releases, as I think it is important—[Interruption.] Well, I have a document which I can show any Member who might want to look at it. It is important that all charities remain outside the party political arena, and that they are not in any way hijacked by a political party.

Much has been said about the covenant, but I believe that actions speak louder than words, which is why we have placed in law a requirement for the Defence Secretary to report annually to Parliament, clearly setting out what has been achieved and how we are performing. Despite the hon. Lady’s criticisms, I think we are doing rather well, but there is still work to be done. As I have said innumerable times, we are building on the work of the last Government’s Command Paper; I do not think there is any disagreement on that.

The Prime Minister chaired the inaugural ministerial committee meeting on the armed forces covenant, which I believe took place last month, although it could have been at the end of February. I regularly discuss the covenant with the Minister of State, Cabinet Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Mr Letwin), who is the Minister for government policy and is leading cross-departmental work. Indeed, I spent about an hour with him not more than three hours ago. It is also very encouraging to see how communities throughout the country are producing their own community covenants, including in the hon. Lady’s own constituency. I congratulate them on that, because it is an important step forward.

A key principle of the covenant is to tackle disadvantage incurred as a result of service. That is why, today, in a joint announcement with Royal Mail, we have launched a practical initiative to help those who are serving overseas by giving them the opportunity to apply for credit from UK institutions and to shop online. In the past, service personnel have experienced difficulty if they were living overseas due to the absence of a credit score or reference search based on a traditional UK address. From now on, British forces post office addresses will be recognised. That is the kind of relatively minor Government action, working with others, which makes a real difference to the lives of our service personnel and their families.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Robathan]

I am sorry, but I will not give way.

Disadvantage can take many forms but let us not forget that members of the armed forces are also members of the community they serve, and it is only right that they should play their part in the very necessary changes we have had to make to reduce the deficit. Armed forces pay is frozen, as is that of all public sector workers, with the exception of those earning £21,000 or less, to whom we have given £250 in each of the two years of the pay freeze. I am glad to say that pay has also increased incrementally each year for those who are not at the top of their pay scale, and so serving personnel are getting increases, but not an overall increase in the pay scale. That protection was introduced for the armed forces to ensure they were not disadvantaged by their lack of contractual entitlement. This is in accordance with the principles of the armed forces covenant and has meant that most service personnel will have received an increase to their pay during the pay freeze period. I am sure that all hon. Members wish that the same was true of us, too.

I have said to the House before that I did not enter Parliament to make members of the armed forces redundant, especially when we are asking them to do so much in Afghanistan, as we are now. However, we inherited a massive black hole in the Department’s budget, as has now been accepted by the Labour party. That was unsustainable, and something needed to be done and quickly. The strategic defence and security review of October 2010—the first in 13 years—set the requirement for the future. It included removing out-of-date capabilities and it made room to ensure that we can afford those capabilities needed for the future. The second and final tranche of redundancies for the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force will conclude in June. The Army will conduct a further tranche and detailed planning is being undertaken. Believe me, this is a painful process that none of us enjoys. As was clearly stated by my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox) when he was Defence Secretary, no one currently serving in Afghanistan or on notice to deploy will be made redundant unless they have asked, and are subsequently selected, to be included in the list.

The Government published, in December 2011, the interim report on the armed forces covenant, to which the hon. Lady referred, and I urge the whole House to read it. It was an interim report because the covenant had been in existence for only a few months, and therefore we could not have a whole year’s report. “Transition” is covered in chapter 10, as is “Housing after Service”. The Minister for Housing and Local Government, my right hon. Friend the Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps), has recently consulted local authorities on how former service personnel are managed on the local authority housing list. He will announce the findings of that consultation in due course.

On 21 March, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor announced three new measures to help service personnel. On housing, an extra £100 million has been made available to improve service accommodation. In addition, a much-welcomed doubling in the funding available for families’ welfare while their loved one is away will allow units to fund activities beyond those already announced. It underlines our commitment to those who serve with such selfless devotion to duty, safe in the knowledge that we are looking after their families while they are away.

[Mrs Glindon]

May I refer the Minister back to the figures that I mentioned in my speech? If the £100 million will not be devalued, does that mean that the three-year freeze will be reduced to a two-year freeze so that that £47 million will not be lost?

[Mr Robathan]

We are continuing to refurbish bathrooms and kitchens, for instance, but we are not doing the wholesale modernisation as that has been stopped by the freeze. That £100 million will go towards improvements and the modernisations that will go forward, but there is a freeze. There is a freeze for one simple reason: to quote the Chief Secretary to the Treasury in the previous Government, “there is no money”. It is no good saying that we should spend more when we do not have any money.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Robathan and Mary Glindon

Monday 20th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Robathan]

It should happen speedily. The problem is that this is a responsibility across Government and led, I believe, by the Cabinet Office. We want it announced swiftly and we want it to take place swiftly so that we can understand the rules. I am sorry that I can only give this answer, but I think that everyone will be glad to know that I am not responsible for it.

[Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)]

When members of the armed forces are facing a two-year pay freeze and 20,000 are losing their jobs, how can the Secretary of State justify bonuses, some of five figures, to senior officers in the MOD civil service?

Arctic Convoy Veterans Medal

Debate between Lord Robathan and Mary Glindon

Tuesday 6th December 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mr Robathan]

No, I will not.

The intention post-war was not to cover everyone with medals. Medals in the UK mean something, and we pay tribute to the people in the Public Gallery who are showing the medals that they won through risk and rigour. My hon. Friend the Member for Gosport mentioned the USSR. Authoritarian regimes and dictators, such a Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein, often throw medals around. North Korean generals are covered with medal ribbons. We have traditionally taken the view in this country—hon. Members may disagree—that medals will be awarded only for campaigns that show risk and rigour.

[Mrs Glindon]

Veterans who hold the Russian Arctic medal may think the Minister’s comment about regimes that give away medals is disparaging. I hope that he recognises that. Under Winston Churchill, the Government discouraged the award of the Russian medal, but the fact that it was given and that the brave men who received it were recognised should be mirrored in this country. I should be pleased if he made a different comment from the one that he made earlier.

[Mr Robathan]

I apologise if my comment was taken in the wrong way. That was not the intention. I am not sure when the Russian medal was given to our veterans, but I believe that it was after 1990. There are not many Soviet survivors from the second world war, but generals in the Soviet army were covered in medals, which is not the tradition in this country. That is the point I was trying to make.