COP 29: United Kingdom Delegation
Lord Robathan Excerpts(3 days, 19 hours ago)
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Lord Robathan
To ask His Majesty’s Government how many people were in the United Kingdom delegation to COP 29 in Baku, what work they did, and what was the total cost of attendance including air fares.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
My Lords, the UK’s COP 29 delegation is smaller than that for COP 28, but our delegation is planned to ensure a productive summit that will progress UK strategic outcomes. The carbon footprint of this travel is outstripped by the benefits of delivering this agenda. As well as Ministers, diplomats, thematic experts and negotiators, overall UK attendance at COP includes businesses, arm’s-length bodies, devolved Administrations, those from Crown dependencies and overseas territories, parliamentarians and external event speakers from businesses and civil society. Because COP 29 is still ongoing, it is not possible to provide a final number of participants or a cost of attendance.
Lord Robathan (Con)
I thank the Minister for her Answer, although it did not really increase the sum total of human knowledge. My understanding is that the delegation was 470 strong, which is over four times the size of the French delegation and larger than the American delegation—the size of a small army battalion, actually. Can the Minister now confirm whether that is the number? What were they doing? What did they achieve? How much did it cost? She says that she cannot tell us, but she can give us a guess. And what was the carbon footprint?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The noble Lord, with respect, might wish to retable this in a couple of weeks when COP has actually concluded. At the moment, although we know how many people we have accredited, we do not know how many of those attended, how many attended in person or for how long they attended. We will obviously be able to provide full information, which I am sure he will enjoy reading, once COP concludes, but we are not in a position to do that today.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the noble Lord, Lord Robathan, has scored an own goal with his Question? Although the Labour Government sent fewer to COP 29 than the Tory Government sent to COP 28—
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)
No, it was not in Glasgow; it was in Dubai. That is two own goals—that is better than England. The fact that our delegation was led by the Prime Minister, unlike under the previous Government, shows the real importance that we give to climate change.
Ukraine: North Korean Troops
Lord Robathan Excerpts(1 month ago)
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Lord Robathan
To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they regard the deployment of North Korean troops to Ukraine as an escalation of the conflict by Russia.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
My Lords, it is highly likely that the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea has begun to send troops to Russia. This is a deeply concerning development that risks prolonging the war and augments DPRK’s already significant support to Russia, including munitions and arms that are being used by Russia in its illegal war against Ukraine. This further illustrates Russia’s growing reliance on third-country support and the deepening military co-operation between Russia and DPRK, which has security implications for Europe, the Indo-Pacific and the wider world.
Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, I doubt anybody in NATO would wish to see a shooting war with Russia, far less, God forbid, a nuclear conflict. The aggressor, Putin, threatens the West throughout with dire consequences unknown if there is any escalation of the war, yet he is now apparently bringing in thousands of North Korean troops to assist him, from an ally in the axis of evil. Putin is already waging war against the West. In the UK, Litvinenko was murdered 18 years ago, we had the Salisbury poisonings and only last month we had the warning from Ken McCallum of MI5 about Putin’s intention to disrupt British life. Will the Minister please go back to her colleagues in the department so that we can further assist Ukraine in defeating the aggressor? In particular, will she lobby for allowing Storm Shadow missiles and other weaponry to be used for attacks on Russia, because the best way to maintain peace in Europe is to defeat the aggressor, Putin?
Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)
Before my noble friend responds, this is called Question Time for a reason. We want short, sharp questions.
Ukraine
Lord Robathan Excerpts(2 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
As the noble Lord can imagine, our sanctions team has never been busier. We have sanctioned over 2,000 individuals. For very good reason, we are determined to tackle illegal money laundering and kleptocracy across the world wherever we find it and we will take whatever action we need to within the UK’s legal framework.
Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, does the Minister not agree that we should not accept the red lines laid down by the aggressor, Putin? His red line is apparently NATO weapons being used against Russia. Hold on; he is the aggressor. Should not we, the US and others say that Storm Shadow missiles would be of great value to the Ukrainians in fighting and winning this war? We should press the US to allow us to give them to them.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My Lords, we could not be clearer in our support for Ukraine. We provide a huge amount of support and weaponry to Ukraine, which is consistent with the approach of our key allies. That situation will not change.
Israel and Gaza
Lord Robathan Excerpts(6 months, 1 week ago)
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Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)
What I would say to the noble Baroness is that the last time I was asked to make a political declaration outside our normal process of reviewing arms export licences, and to simply say that we would not sell any more arms to Israel, just a few days later Iran attacked Israel with a hail of over 140 cruise missiles. That position of acting outside our normal processes would have been completely wrong.
Let me answer very directly on the ICC’s announcement yesterday. I do not believe for one moment that seeking these warrants will help get the hostages out, help get aid in, or help deliver a sustainable ceasefire. As we have said from the outset, because Israel is not a signatory to the Rome statute, and because Palestine is not yet recognised as a state, we do not think that the court has jurisdiction in this area.
I would go beyond that and say that, frankly, this is mistaken in terms of position, timing and effect. To draw a moral equivalence between the Hamas leadership and the democratically elected leader of Israel is just plain wrong. It is not just Britain saying that; countries all over Europe and the world are saying that.
On timing, I point out to your Lordships’ House that the ICC was about to embark on a visit to Israel, which some of us had helped to arrange, and at the last minute decided to cancel that visit and simply go ahead with its announcement. It is not normally for the ICC to think about the effect, but as it clearly thought about the timing, maybe it should also think about the effect. As I have said, it will not help get the hostages out, and it probably makes change in Israel less likely.
Lord Robathan (Con)
I am very pleased with what my noble friend has just said. Does he also agree that if we and the rest of the West were to suspend arms sales, it would allow Hamas to regroup and return to the destructive and ghastly behaviour we witnessed on 7 October?
Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)
I thank my noble friend for that question. Britain and America are obviously in completely different situations in terms of arms exports to Israel. Our exports are less than 1% of the total, so not a meaningful amount, whereas the United States is a far bigger provider. As I said, I think acting outside our proper processes and guidelines —we have a process of going through Israel’s commitment, capability and compliance with the rules laid out in our export criteria—would not be the right thing to, for the reasons I have given.
Foreign Affairs
Lord Robathan Excerpts(8 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, it is a genuine pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Deech; I agree with her about a great many things, including what she has just said. I am also pleased to see my noble friend Lord Cameron, the Foreign Secretary, in his place. It is rather too late for me to welcome him here, but I welcome somebody of his stature representing the United Kingdom abroad.
Perforce, I will be brief. I would like to give the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, my support in his dissection of the integrated review refresh of last year. I also say to my noble friend Lady Goldie, who is not in her place, that, as the most reverend Primate the Archbishop knows, there is more rejoicing in heaven over a sinner who repenteth as she has done over defence spending. It is a pity she did not say that when she was a Minister, but I will upbraid her for it in person.
I will touch briefly on three current conflicts; first, Ukraine, about which a great deal has been said. This war in Europe is the most serious for nearly 80 years. The war is a mixture of World War I attrition and 21st-century high-tech drones and the like. I congratulate Boris Johnson—I do not often—who was of course a great school friend of my noble friend the Foreign Secretary. I also congratulate the UK Government on their steadfast support for Ukraine in the last two years, but we must continue to do this and do more. Are we pressing our allies, particularly France, Germany and the United States, to do more? They must do more, not sit on their hands and say, “It is all very good but a bit difficult”. This war affects global security and prosperity. The United States, Europe, Africa and India all need to understand that.
Our munitions have been extremely welcome and invaluable, but now they are totally depleted for our use or Ukraine’s. Is my noble friend pressing for a dramatic increase in industrial production, to move away from the mindset of the peace dividend? My noble friend may say that defence is not his brief, but he will be listened to, and he will know well the dictum of von Clausewitz in “Vom Kriege”, or “On War” for those who do not speak German:
“War is the continuation of policy with other means”—
and for foreign policy with defence, I suggest.
On Gaza and the Middle East, the UK has again been steadfast. It is a dreadful, possibly intractable situation. I cannot think of anybody who is not very concerned, to put it mildly, about the death of many civilians in Gaza, but Hamas could end this war tomorrow if it gave up the hostages and stopped attacking Israel. Perhaps we could then allow for a more peaceful, long-term solution to emerge, probably based on a two-state solution in which Hamas disappears, along with the illegal settlements in the West Bank and some of the ultra-Orthodox pressure on the Government. Perhaps we would get more reasonable—or moderate, shall we say —Governments in both Palestine and Israel.
Finally, on the situation in Yemen with Iran and the Houthis, the prosperity of the world is under threat. It is disappointing to see so few countries defending the shipping routes in the Gulf. My noble friend Lord Ahmad spoke of international responses, but as I understand it, the only response has been from the United States, helped by us with one ship. We need much more than that to defend the shipping lanes in the Gulf.
Moving on, perhaps I may quote a predecessor of my noble friend the Foreign Secretary from some 30 years ago, Lord Hurd, who said that we punch above our weight in foreign affairs, and President Theodore Roosevelt, who said some 100 years ago, in a much better- known quotation:
“Speak softly and carry a big stick”.
We spent the defence peace dividend several times over and we have no big stick left. Our allies know this, and the United States and NATO say it. As I speak, we are reducing our defence in terms of numbers of troops, numbers of ships and numbers of aircraft. I heard the Chancellor of the Exchequer say recently that he wants to dramatically increase defence spending over the next 15 years. That is not good enough; our needs are now.
I support the Conservative Government. I have supported my party. I have been loyal—mostly—through thick and thin over 32 years; quite a lot of it has been rather thin, to be honest. I do not believe that a Government led by the Opposition would do any better, but I say to my noble friend the Foreign Secretary that our interests, our society, our values and our security are all threatened. We must spend more on defence, because the first duty of government is, as always, the defence of the realm.
Children in Gaza
Lord Robathan Excerpts(9 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)
The noble Baroness asks a number of questions. The case she raises is completely tragic, and what is happening in Gaza is tragic. We want an end to this suffering and killing. Let me make this point: we want to turn the pause we are calling for into a ceasefire, by making sure the conditions are right for getting a stop in the fighting to mean a permanent ceasefire. The way to do that is by fulfilling a number of conditions. In our view, you have to get the Hamas leaders out of Gaza—otherwise, any ceasefire will not last because the problem will still be there. You have to dismantle the operation of terrorist attacks. You have to have a new Palestinian Authority Government in place. You have to give the Palestinian people a political horizon to a better future and a two-state solution. Crucially, you have to release all the hostages—and do that very quickly.
The noble Baroness asks whether we challenge the Israeli Government over individual episodes. Yes, we absolutely do. I have done that personally with them, for instance, over a building that was bombed that had UK medics and other charities in it. We will continue to do that as part of the very important process that we go through to judge whether they are in compliance with international humanitarian law.
Lord Robathan (Con)
Is my noble friend aware of any moves by Hamas to protect the children of Gaza, for instance by releasing all the hostages, as he just mentioned, or stopping attacks on Israel and the leaders fleeing to the Gulf? Is he aware of any such moves? I agree with everything he said.
Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)
My noble friend makes a very good point. It is worth remembering that on 7 October, 29 children were killed by Hamas and 39 children were taken hostage and remain hostages today. It is right that we in this House keep asking what else Israel should do, but at the very same time we should also say what Hamas should do, which is to lay down its weapons and stop right now. It could stop this fight immediately.
Israel and Gaza
Lord Robathan Excerpts(10 months, 1 week ago)
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Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)
What I meant when I said that was simply that I worry about these things. It is my job to worry. The Foreign Office has a job, which is to look at the legal advice and work out whether Israel is committed to, and capable of complying with, international humanitarian law, and then, based on that judgment, we have to take a series of actions, including looking at things like export licences. We always urge Israel to obey international humanitarian law, and it is important that we do so.
Lord Robathan (Con)
Is it not the case that there would be an immediate ceasefire tomorrow if Hamas were to release the hostages and lay down its weapons, and if the criminals who did atrocities on 7 October were to go and join their leaders in luxury hotels in the Gulf?
Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)
My noble friend makes a good point, which is that Hamas could end this tomorrow by saying that it was going to lay down its weapons or leave. Everyone is aware that we want a sustainable ceasefire. That means Hamas not in power and not able to launch rockets and terror, and we have said we want to see an immediate pause so we can get aid in and hostages out. However, in many ways, the very best outcome would be to see whether we could convert that immediate pause for aid and hostages into a sustainable ceasefire without further hostilities. But for that to happen, a series of other things would have to happen: there would have to be immediate negotiations to release all the hostages, the Hamas leadership would have to leave Gaza, and we would have to be clear that there was no more danger of rocket and terror attacks on Israel. We would have to put together something based on the Palestinian Authority, backed by other Palestinians, going back into Gaza. In many ways, that would be the best outcome, but if we call now for an immediate ceasefire with no further fighting when Hamas is still in power, still launching rockets and still capable of launching terror attacks, not only would we not have a sustainable ceasefire and peace but we would have no hope of the thing that I think many in this House would like to see, which is a two-state solution.
Israel-Hamas War: Diplomacy
Lord Robathan Excerpts(11 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, should Hamas release all the hostages and lay down its weapons, and should the terrorists who perpetrated the appalling atrocities on 7 October flee to the Gulf to live in luxury hotels with their leaders, would there not be an immediate ceasefire? Peace might be able to come. We could then decide some long-term political future for the Palestinians and the Israelis.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that as a first step, as I have said, the hostages must be released. It is a no-brainer, as far as I am concerned. Those people were taken, so that will be a vital first step. The other issue to recognise is that we have proscribed Hamas as a terrorist group. It is for Hamas to choose its pathway. Does it want to put down weapons and talk peace? Then say so and put that offer on the table. I alluded earlier to being in Qatar. We are seized of ensuring that, in every country, we deliver the vital messages to those who have influence over Hamas. Given the priority of releasing the hostages and bringing a cessation to the violence we are seeing, Hamas needs to lay down its weapons and say that it no longer wishes to continue to attack Israeli interests.
Gaza: Humanitarian Situation
Lord Robathan Excerpts(11 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Russia: Sanctions
Lord Robathan Excerpts(1 year, 2 months ago)
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Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, the right reverend Prelate talked about the impact of sanctions. I can share with him that sanctions are having a direct impact. On revenues alone, they have left Russia’s budget in deficit, rather than the surplus that the Russian Government themselves predicted for 2022. Russia has suffered an annual deficit of £47 billion, the second highest of the post-Soviet era. Russia’s energy revenues fell 47% in the first half of this year. At the same time, global oil prices are lower. Less immediately visible, but more importantly in the long-term, more than 1,000 foreign businesses have left Russia, along with thousands of high-skilled workers. More continues to be done, as we co-ordinate and work with other countries. Particularly notable recently is that Armenia, Turkey and Kazakhstan have taken action on the issue of supply chains, which the right reverend Prelate raised. That kind of co-ordination is important if we are going to make these sanctions work across the piece.
Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)
My Lords, we will let my noble friend ask his question and then we will go over to the noble Lord, Lord Sahota.
Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, on targeted sanctions, the oligarchs who make up the inner circle around Putin, and the huge number of people who have property here, have almost invariably made their money by nefarious means—they must have done, because 30 years ago there was no private capital in Russia. Could my noble friend the Minister give us an update on how many oligarchs are having their property—and whatever else—put into suspension so that we can confiscate and use it to rebuild Ukraine?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
I agree with my noble friend that we all want—I think I speak for the whole House—to get Russia to pay for its war on Ukraine. At the time of the invasion, the UK sanctioned 129 oligarchs who have a combined net worth of around £145 billion. As I said earlier, we have frozen £18 billion-worth of Russian assets under the regime. The UK has also set up specialist agencies in the NCA and, as I said earlier, we are working with key partners. Legal hurdles need to be addressed, but we are not doing that alone—other partner countries are also looking to allow those assets, now that they are frozen, to be moved across. Ultimately, when the war ends, we can use the money from those assets in the reconstruction of Ukraine.