Chagos Islands
Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts(2 months, 2 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, said, there have been changes of Government in the US and Mauritius. I take this opportunity to congratulate both President-elect Trump and the new Prime Minister, Dr Ramgoolam, in Mauritius, on their election victories. Changes of Government are an inevitable part of negotiations with fellow democracies. We have also had a change of Government in this country since these negotiations began. This is the conclusion of a few years’ worth of negotiation—11 to 13 rounds of negotiation took place under the previous Government. We were aware that this could happen, and we are working closely with our allies, in both the US and Mauritius, on making sure that everyone is comfortable with the deal and the treaty. We have no reason to think that this is not the case at this stage.
On engagement with Chagossians, it was not possible for them to be party to these negotiations because they took place between Governments. I regret what happened to the Chagossians in the past—it was over 50 years ago, but that in no way diminishes the pain and hurt that they will have experienced. I accept that Chagossians will be concerned about the arrangements reached. We have prioritised the security of the US-UK military facility on Diego Garcia. People can disagree with that and can say that prioritising security was the wrong thing to do, but that is what the Government have chosen on behalf of the people of the United Kingdom, because we think that was in the best interests of the UK. There are arrangements in the deal to allow Chagossians to visit and return, and some Chagossians will be able to take advantage of that.
The treaty will be published as soon as it has been finalised with the Mauritian Government, and there will be a process for Members of this House and the Commons to debate it.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
Given that there was no public information from the previous Government—of whom the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, was a member—about any of the 11 rounds of negotiations that took place, does the Minister agree that two points of principle should be adhered to now? First, for the treaty approval process, nothing should be done on behalf of the Chagossians without their involvement, and Parliament should have an ability to vote on the treaty proactively, rather than the limited process under the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act. Secondly, unlike what Nigel Farage or Kemi Badenoch might suggest, British foreign policy should be formed and set by us, not Donald Trump.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My understanding is that the process will be the usual one for agreeing these treaties. We need to be careful about the use of the word “consultation”, because there will be an opportunity to listen to the views of Chagossian communities and to understand that there is more than one view among them about this deal. It would be wrong to give the impression that there would be an opportunity to have a treaty changed in light of Chagossian voices. We can all have a view on that, and some of us might wish that it could be otherwise, but when we are dealing with a matter of security like this in the Indian Ocean, and with a treaty between two Governments, it is far better if we are up front and honest about what will be possible during that process.
BBC World Service
Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts(2 months, 2 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
It is vital that we maintain the independent position the BBC has, so that it makes its own decisions. However, this Government want to refresh the approach to soft power. We are establishing a soft power council, in which I hope the World Service will take part. From my point of view, it is absolutely legitimate for the Government to say that we are worried about these circumstances in these places and to share our understanding of situations around the world, and it is for the BBC to tell us to back off and to make its own decisions. My aim is to have a collaborative, respectful relationship with the BBC, preserving at all times its independence and ability to make its own choices.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, I agree with the comments the Minister just made and thank the Leader for her response to me two weeks ago, when I raised concerns about World Service cuts in Lebanon. Does the Minister share my concern that, although the BBC World Service is critical for supporting civil society in many conflict areas, the more recent government development cuts of £2 billion—a reduction from 0.58% of GNI to 0.5%—could put at risk the very kind of programmes that support civil society resilience in many conflict areas? I welcome the extra support for the BBC World Service, but will the Minister make sure that there are not cuts elsewhere to programmes that support civil society in these critical vulnerable areas?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
We are reviewing development spend, as noble Lords would expect. We do not have the luxury of limitless funds to spend. We are spending a lot of our development money on housing people who arrive here in the UK for 12 months after their arrival. We need to get that spend down so that we can spend it much more wisely on preventing conflict, educating women and girls, supporting freedom of religion and belief, and all the other really positive, important work that we want to do in country. That is our aim.
West Papua
Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts(2 months, 2 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
This is very much a bipartisan issue, and so it should always be. The Government will be making announcements about trade envoys and others, I hope very soon.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, has the Minister been briefed on the Human Rights Watch report from September, which recommended that the Indonesian Government unconditionally release West Papua and other detainees in exercise of their fundamental political rights, and specifically for the new Indonesian Government, just formed, to permit UN human rights monitors to visit West Papua? This would honour a commitment that the previous Indonesian Government gave in 2018 but that has yet to be honoured. Have His Majesty’s Government specifically asked for that latter point with the new Administration?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
We support the work of the UN Commission on Human Rights in this regard. As the noble Lord suggests, this was raised in recent dialogue with Indonesian political representatives.
Journalists Detained or Killed Overseas
Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts(2 months, 2 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, the situation in Juba, South Sudan, requires the kind of reporting and free media that the Minister states, and I agree with her very strongly. However, in Sudan, with the world’s greatest humanitarian crisis and the conflict going on, there is scant reporting and still very brave journalists who are under very considerable threat. The Disasters Emergency Committee has told me that it is not willing to open a humanitarian appeal for Sudan because of the lack of public awareness of the Sudanese crisis. Will the Government support UK-based media and those who are seeking to allow the public to understand that the world’s greatest humanitarian crisis is going on? Those who are responsible for asking the public for support are not being asked.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I was not aware that the DEC took that view. I will look into that, following the noble Lord’s question. It is clearly right that journalists should be able to report from situations that they feel we need to know about, and we respect their freedom to do that and support it. I assure journalists who wish to report from Sudan that they will have the support of the British Government in doing their job.
China: Human Rights and Sanctions
Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts(3 months ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
That is quite an easy one because my colleague, Minister Catherine West, has met Jimmy’s family on several occasions, both in opposition and since being appointed as a Minister. I also recall from reading the transcript of the Commons exchanges yesterday that the Foreign Secretary did indeed commit to meeting Sebastien Lai.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, the Foreign Secretary said yesterday in the House of Commons
“this Government will set a long-term, consistent and strategic approach to China”.
That would be welcome. He went on, however, to criticise the previous Government in 2015 for what they termed a “golden era” of their relationship with China. Have the Government committed in their strategic audit of their relations with China, which I support, to include all the preferential trading agreements the UK has offered China? This includes financial services, where Chinese state enterprises which have some element of involvement in human rights abuses may be involved in preferential market access to British financial services. Will that review be public?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am grateful to the noble Lord for his support for the China audit. I think the most helpful thing I can say at this point is that the audit will be thorough and cross-government; the whole of Whitehall and all departments will be included in that audit.
Ukraine: North Korean Troops
Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts(3 months, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The noble and gallant Lord is correct, and that is what we will have. We have gone over this ground very many times, but it is always worth repeating that the defence of Ukraine is the defence of Europe. The consequence of the West doing anything other than showing the resolve that the noble and gallant Lord recommends would be to send a deeply worrying message that we fail to stand up to aggressors such as Putin. That must never, ever be something we can tolerate. We stand united in this House, in the country and with our allies.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, part of the pernicious relationship between North Korea and Russia is the supply of military equipment, but the disturbing BRICS summit, which many of our trading allies are currently attending with Putin, means that there are too many countries supplying component parts that can be channelled through North Korea and end up being used on the battlefields of Ukraine against our ally. Will the Minister ask the Office of Trade Sanctions Implementation—a new development that we welcome —to be proactive in ensuring that component parts for military equipment from our trading allies do not end up in Ukraine, and to look at widening our trade sanctions?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
Our sanctions regime and the legislation that surrounds it apply to any UK entity, be that in the UK or worldwide, as the noble Lord knows. We will speak to anyone we need to, using any appropriate channels, to try to dissuade others from supplying Russia through whatever means. All anybody supplying Russia with munitions, troops or anything else serves to do, whether they are an ally of ours or not, is prolong this illegal war and the suffering of the people of Ukraine.
Iran (Sanctions) (Amendment) Regulations 2024
Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts(3 months, 1 week ago)
Grand CommitteeRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for outlining these measures, which I support. I will make an appeal and ask two specific questions, on which I would be very happy if she writes to me rather than responding today.
I agree with everything the Minister said about the role of Iran in the Middle East and its relationship with Russia. My appeal is that we broaden our interests to include Sudan. We know that many of the drones in Sudan have been sourced from Iran. It is the world’s biggest humanitarian crisis at the moment. External actors are providing munitions despite there being no justification at all for any external munitions to be used on civilians in Sudan. I would be grateful if the Minister could write to me with the Government’s assessment of what is currently being used in the conflict in Sudan from external sources, specifically with regard to Iran.
I turn to my questions. First, I absolutely support the prohibition on equipment, but I noticed—if I read the measures correctly—an exemption for the personal property of someone travelling. Does that include designs? Do His Majesty’s Government have any concerns about UK interest in the design of these munitions, not just the provision of equipment to manufacture them? Again, I do not necessarily expect the Minister to outline that today.
Secondly, on the provision or export of goods to third countries that relay trade to Iran, I hope the Government have a response to what could be a particularly easy circumvention of these measures if our trade is with a broker country. We know that much of the equipment being used has multiple components from many sources; I would be grateful if the Government have a response on that. Notwithstanding those questions, I support these measures.
Lord Callanan (Con)
I thank the Minister for her kind introduction to this subject. We also fully support these regulations on drones, broader drone technology, financial services, funds and brokering services related to other items of strategic concern; of course, they are one piece of a much larger jigsaw. The Minister commented on the impact of Iran in our previous debate on Russian aggression in Ukraine.
Both the other noble Lords who have spoken outlined graphically how actively and malevolently Iran is undermining the international order through its support for Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis. While it is tempting to think that these are faraway conflicts, any action by the Houthis in the Gulf has the potential to undermine international shipments of oil, gas and other important commodities, which can affect the economy and well-being of this country. Therefore, it is right that we are targeting further the Iranian regime. We fully support these sanctions.
I lend my support to the point made by my noble friend on the proscription of the IRGC. It is strange that so many Conservative Ministers and MPs were in favour of proscription but never managed to get it through the Foreign Office bureaucracy and now so many Labour Ministers and MP who were previously in favour of proscriptions also do not manage to get it through the FCDO bureaucracy. It makes you wonder whether “Yes Minister” was a commentary or a documentary indicating the true state of affairs with the standing bureaucracy in this country. I know that this is difficult, but political will must win over bureaucratic will. I hope that the Minister can influence the Foreign Secretary to return to his previous views and hers and those of her ministerial colleagues and finally proscribe the IRGC. That would meet with widespread support across both Houses of Parliament and from me and many of my noble friends.
We support the sanctions and hope that the Government have success in implementing them.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My Lords, I again thank noble Lords for their contributions and support for these measures.
On the IRGC, I note the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, about the frustrations of political life and government. That is all I will say on that line of inquiry. We have already sanctioned the IRGC in its entirety. The separate list of terrorist organisation proscriptions is, as noble Lords know, kept actively under review. We do not routinely comment on whether an organisation is or is not under consideration for proscription. I will leave that there for today.
The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, makes an important point on Sudan. I will write to him about Sudan, but I point out that when sanctions are applied to Iran, they will affect Iran’s ability to supply Sudan as much as it would Russia. That will be the intention. On the issue of personal property, we have in minds such things as laptops, phones and other personal items. It would be restricted to that. It is right to flag this issue, and we are aware of it, but we felt it was important to include it.
This will apply to UK entities and individuals overseas and anyone who is in the UK. It will not apply any more widely than that. This is how the UK organises its sanctions, as the noble Lord knows. I know that he has long had a very keen interest in the issue of secondary sanctions and how we might engage with them. That is the situation as embodied in these regulations and with regard to the UK’s policy towards sanctions more generally. If I have missed a point there, which I think I may have done, the noble Lord must feel free to come back and help me out.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
It might be my ignorance about how this operates, as it may well be covered elsewhere. I understand that there will be a prohibition on exporting this equipment, but I am not sure that any of it has end-use certificate requirements. Therefore, how will we know if we are sending it to another country which then immediately ships it to Iran? How is that covered?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I will hopefully improve my note-taking as we go on with this. Brokers would be specifically in breach of sanctions were they to facilitate or knowingly support in any way something ending up with Iran. I hope that helps the noble Lord. If he needs any further information, I would be happy to speak to him about it.
These measures represent a step forward in our capability to restrict Iran’s proliferation of advanced conventional weapons, which continue to fuel conflict in the Middle East and support Russia in its illegal war in Ukraine. The UK Government are firmly committed to using sanctions to hold the Iranian regime to account for its malign activities in the UK and elsewhere. I beg to move.
Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2024
Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts(3 months, 1 week ago)
Grand CommitteeRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
I am grateful for the Minister outlining in clear terms the Government’s position on the wider aspects of the sanctions enforcements. I support this measure. I spoke on the previous regulations on 19 July 2023, when I raised the issue that the Law Society had brought to our attention. It has subsequently had follow-up communications saying that this permanent solution is preferable, and I therefore support it.
I will raise a separate issue that the noble Lord, Lord Alton, spoke to me about—I think he spoke to the Minister prior to the Committee—concerning shipping insurance. I checked Hansard and, on 1 February 2022, I raised a question about this in a debate on one of our early Russia sanctions. The Minister’s colleague, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, heard us raise the continuing concerns in Grand Committee last week. I understand that this has also been raised in a letter today from the right honourable Sir Iain Duncan Smith, the chair of the all-party group on Magnitsky sanctions and reparation, regarding the concerns of 12 vessels that it alleges are continuing to receive insurance via the UK. I hope the Minister might reply on this, although I do not necessarily expect her to give the Government’s response to a letter that was sent to the Foreign Secretary today. But we have an important debate in the Chamber on Friday, so an update from the Government, if possible—written to Members of the Committee and also placed in the Library—would be of assistance to us in our debate on Friday. With that, I support the Government’s moves on these sanctions.
Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, I too can be brief. These are of course updates and clarifications of sanctions introduced by the previous Government. We were grateful for the support of the Opposition then and, on behalf of the Opposition now, I offer my full support for the changes that the Minister announced. It is important that we maintain the principle of unity across the parties in support of these sanctions and of Ukraine, taking action wherever possible to restrict Russia and its activities across the world. We need to be mindful of the big role that the City of London plays across the world in legal, financial and professional services. Some UK companies are undoubtedly involved in helping the Russians to circumvent these sanctions. We fully support the strictest clampdown on these activities. We should be very proud of these industries, but they should be used for right, not for helping Russia in this regard.
Following the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, I offer my support for the letter from Sir Iain Duncan Smith to the Foreign Secretary. We support these sanctions but ask the Government to look again at what more can be done to clamp down on the shadow fleet of tankers that Russia is using to spread its oil and gas around the world. As the noble Lord said, I do not expect the Minister to reply now to a letter that was sent only today and probably has not been received yet, but I hope that the Government can bear this in mind and can possibly give us an answer on Friday. We fully support these sanctions.
Somaliland
Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts(3 months, 3 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
Well, I am very pleased to provide consistency in the Government’s approach. The UK needs to tread carefully in the Horn of Africa in regard to this, given the situation that the noble Lord has just described. We have strong links; we have a permanent diplomatic presence in Somaliland. But my sense is that it would not be the right thing to do for stability in the wider region to wade in and take such an action at this time.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, given that Ethiopia has recognised Somaliland in return for Red Sea access, and Egypt has signed a military and security defence arrangement with Somalia, and with Ethiopian troops currently in Somalia, I believe caution is justified. The UK was the lead funder for the African Union peacekeeping mission in this area in Somalia against Al-Shabaab. Is it not in the UK’s key strategic interests that we restore the funding for the new mission, whose mandate will be renewed at the end of this year, to ensure that Al-Shabaab does not benefit from the tension and standoff between Somaliland, Somalia, Ethiopia and Egypt?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am grateful to the noble Lord for reminding us just how complex this situation is. We have to keep in mind where Ethiopia, Egypt, Somalia and Eritrea are—this is somewhere where you do not take rash decisions. We are committed to making sure that the fight to combat Al-Shabaab is taken forward and we will play our role in that, as the noble Lord would expect.
British Indian Ocean Territory: Negotiations
Lord Purvis of Tweed Excerpts(3 months, 3 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, the transfer of the British Indian Ocean Territory to Mauritius is a shameful day for our country. My noble friend Lord Blencathra, president of the Conservative Friends of Overseas Territories, wrote in the Daily Telegraph that this deal is “shoddy and short-sighted”,
“ignores the interests and wishes of the Chagossian people”,
has caused concern among the other overseas territories, and has
“learnt none of the lessons from Hong Kong”.
I could put it no better than my noble friend, and I echo his sentiments. Moreover, this transfer will cost the British taxpayer money and will threaten our national security. It is essential that Parliament has a vote on this matter.
On Monday, the Foreign Secretary said in the House of Commons that a Bill will be put to Parliament on this matter. However, later, in questioning, the Foreign Secretary seemed to suggest that this was a matter which did not need to be scrutinised by Parliament. After that, the noble Baroness said yesterday, during responses to an Oral Question, that there would be a treaty and amendable primary legislation on this deal. Therefore, does the noble Baroness agree that this is a matter for parliamentarians to debate? Can she confirm that noble Lords will have the opportunity to scrutinise and vote on such legislation before any final decision is made?
Given that the Government have stated that they will pay money to Mauritius under the deal, this is a matter that also concerns the British taxpayer. Yesterday, in response to a question from my noble friend Lady Sugg, the Minister stated that His Majesty’s Government never disclose the cost of sovereign military bases. A little scrutiny via a well-known internet search engine proves this statement not to be entirely accurate. For example, the Ministry of Defence has disclosed that for the sovereign military bases in Cyprus it costs £256 million a year to manage those facilities. Can the Minister give us some indication as to whether this deal will cost the taxpayer an equivalent sum of money?
In addition, yesterday, in the Daily Telegraph, an FCDO spokesman said that there would be
“UK funding to support Chagossian communities in Mauritius”.
If that statement is correct, surely the Minister should be able to disclose the cost, as presumably that money would be international aid and not under the Ministry of Defence’s remit. Can the Minister clarify this point, tell us who is correct, and perhaps tell the House how much that part of the deal will cost the British taxpayer?
This is the second great betrayal of the Chagossian people under a Labour Government. In 1967, Harold Wilson’s Government forcibly evicted the Chagossian people from their homes. Now, in 2024, the Chagossians, who have had no say in these negotiations, have been handed over to a foreign power that is in many ways very different from their culture and lifestyles. The Minister said yesterday that the Chagossian people would have
“the right to visit Diego Garcia”—[Official Report, 8/10/24; col. 1909.]
under this agreement. Can she confirm exactly how this would take place without compromising the military base and whether our allies in the US are aware of the commitment that she gave?
Chagossian Voices, which represents the Chagossian community in the UK and elsewhere, has said that Chagossians have been “consistently and deliberately ignored” and now feel “powerless and voiceless”. Peter Lamb, the Labour MP for Crawley, said that the decision was “very disappointing”, as Chagossians had been “let down again”. He said that, in the past 16 years, he had not heard “a single voice” in his local community saying that they wanted the islands to go to Mauritius. Can the Minister explain on what grounds this decision has been taken? Can she also explain whether this was a decision taken under international law and in what respect it reflects the self-determination of the Chagossian people?
We live in a world that is more dangerous than ever. There is war in Europe and the situation in the Middle East is escalating. This House knows all too well what threats the Chinese state poses to British democracy. Can the Minister tell us why this important and strategic British territory has been handed over to an ally of China? I am sure the House will agree that the noble Lord, Lord West of Spithead, who I am pleased to see in his place, is one of the most respected Labour voices on defence in this place. He wrote for Policy Exchange that
“the Chinese are pushing Mauritius to claim Diego Garcia and that China wants access to and control of the port and airfield facilities”.
This would be clearly unacceptable and would violate British interests.
Given that there was no pressing need to conclude this deal, why was it suddenly rushed through? The Government have said that there will be a 99-year lease on the base in Diego Garcia, with a right of renewal. Is this an absolute right to renew the lease or a right to request a renewal of the lease? Those are two very different things.
In summary, this agreement damages our national security, it does not fulfil the wishes of the Chagossian people and it will come at potentially great cost to the taxpayer. The Government still have many questions to answer on this shoddy deal and the Minister can be assured that we will return to it.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, these Benches believe that the UK has a very special responsibility for the overseas territories and the people who live within them. There should be a fundamental principle that nothing should be decided about them without them. Their participation, and ultimately their consent, is of the greatest importance. I hope that the Minister will agree with that.
It has been interesting to see this suddenly becoming a highly party-political issue. The overseas territories and their sovereignty were not part of a negotiating mandate with the European Union after Brexit, for example. The noble Lord, Lord Callanan, was the Minister at the time. When it came to consideration for the overseas territories and their sovereignty in our key relationship with the European Union, the Falkland Islands were excluded. That has meant that they have been paying £15 million in tariffs to land fishing, critical for not only the economy but the sustainability and the sovereignty of the islands. Therefore, some vessels from the Falkland Islands have to be flagged as Spanish in order to access the single market, something that my party leader, Sir Ed Davey, challenged the Prime Minister on. I hope that we can correct this as a result of the previous Government’s omission with the OTs.
On Gibraltar, the prospect of the EU frontier force, FRONTEX, being at the border entry point into the United Kingdom is a result of the previous Government not including sovereignty of the OTs as part of a negotiation mandate. Both the Falkland Islands Government and the Gibraltar Government warned the previous Government of the consequences, and now this Government have to correct those errors.
The noble Baroness, Lady Sugg, said yesterday that the issue of the Chagos Islands’ sovereignty was a non-starter. It apparently took 11 rounds of negotiations for the previous Government to decide that it was a non-starter before the general election. A cynic might think that the previous Government knew that there would have to be some tough decisions on the Falklands for fishing, Gibraltar for EU security and Chagos for international law and thought that this was probably best left to their successors in government.
The Minister said yesterday in response to my question that there was not one Chagossian voice. If that were the case, the need for their participation and consent in the process going forward is critical. The House is well aware of my views on the deficiencies of the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act on treaty ratification in previous times. Labour, in opposition, had supported calls for resolutions on potential treaty areas which were of concern for human rights. The previous Government resisted this; I welcome the U-turn of the Conservative Party in now calling for a resolution on a treaty. I tried 17 times to call for Motions on treaties, which were resisted by the previous Government, so I hope that there will be consensus on this.
Perhaps the Minister will respond to some specific points. First, how will the financing with regard to the Chagossians’ relocation work, and what will be the timetable? How will location and relocation mechanisms be put in place and over what timeframe? Finally, regarding the Minister’s reply to me yesterday on primary legislation, what is the extent of that legislation, and will the Government commit to ensuring that the Long Title is sufficiently flexible for there to be scrutiny of the wider impacts? Of course there are geopolitical impacts; therefore, the timing of this decision, the treaty and the legislation, linked with the strategic defence review, are critical, as well as the ability for Parliament to resolve that the voice of the Chagossians will be heard and that consent will be a critical part of it.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Purvis of Tweed and Lord Callanan, for their remarks. The noble Lord, Lord Callanan, asked me to clarify who is right—me or the Foreign Secretary. All I can say is that it certainly is not the noble Lord. I am surprised at the lack of background work that he has been able to do on this topic between yesterday and today, because a few things in his contribution were factually incorrect.
On the reaction of the Americans, President Biden has applauded the statement that we made; he calls the agreement “historic” and says that it
“secures the effective operation of the joint facility on Diego Garcia into the next century”.
I would rather take his assessment of the deal that we have just done than that of the noble Lord, Lord Callanan —with all respect.
On parliamentary scrutiny, as I tried to outline yesterday, but obviously in the context of a Question I perhaps could have gone further, there will be the CRaG process to which the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, referred. There will also be primary legislation, and this will be implementing legislation. I do not know what the Long Title of that legislation will be, but I take on board the comments from the noble Lord, Lord Purvis—but that will be to amend other legislation, which we need to do to implement the treaty. There will be an opportunity between signing and ratifying the treaty for both Houses to debate it.
On funding, we do not disclose the costs of bases overseas. One of the researchers of the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, has found that there are some costings from the MoD on the sovereign base in Cyprus. There are many costs of running a base, but we do not pay for the privilege of running the base in Cyprus—the noble Lord ought to know this. There are additional costs around facilities and other things that we will be able to share, including on the base in Diego Garcia, but the basing costs that we will pay to Mauritius are completely separate. We do not disclose them, and we will not be disclosing them.
The issue of China came up yesterday. I am very sad about this, because when we were in opposition, we took great pride in how we approached issues of foreign policy. There were opportunities to make mischief, but we stood shoulder to shoulder with the Government whenever we could, and it saddens me that in the context of a Conservative leadership contest the opportunity is taken to play fast and loose, to play political games, on some of these issues. Not every concern that is raised falls into that category, but unfortunately some of them have.
Mauritius is not, as some in the Conservative Party have suggested, in hoc to China. It is not part of the belt and road initiative; it is one of only two African countries not to be. It is an ally of India, and India too, as well as the African Union, has welcomed the clarity that this deal provides. The Foreign Secretary will make further announcements on the financial support for Chagossians, which noble Lords were quite right to ask about, when the treaty is signed. That is an important element; it is not about the treaty—it is something that the UK is deciding to do, because they have been shockingly treated for many decades. The sad truth—and this is not something that any of us in this Chamber will be pleased to know—is that those islands are uninhabited but for the military personnel, and in that situation the right to self-determination enjoyed by the Falkland Islanders and Gibraltarians is very different. The circumstances that have led to this are sad and shameful, but that is the situation in which we find ourselves today.
I am very happy to take any questions on this matter, but it is important that we stay focused on the primary purpose of this negotiation—that is, the same thing that drove the last Government to have 11 rounds of negotiation—which is to secure this base, which is really important for security in the Indian Ocean. That is the motivation; it is why we wanted to get the deal done, and it is why the Americans are so pleased that it has been done.