Sentencing Council Guidelines

Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers Excerpts

Wednesday 19th March 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question and for his generosity and kindness to me many years ago in helping me get going when I first started recruiting people from prison. When we had those conversations many years ago, the prison population was much lower than it is today. That is why we have established the review on sentencing being carried out by David Gauke. We await his report, which will be published in the spring.

[Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers (CB)]

My Lords, in my relative youth I used to chair the Sentencing Guidelines Council, the predecessor of the Sentencing Council. From the Library this morning I obtained a publication that I believe emanates from the Sentencing Council, which includes the guidelines. There then follows the comment:

“Courts should refer to the Equal Treatment Bench Book for more guidance on how to ensure fair treatment and avoid disparity of outcomes for different groups”.


Does the Minister consider that valuable guidance?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

The Equal Treatment Bench Book was written by judges, for judges. I am very clear that everybody should be treated equally in the eyes of the law.

Data (Use and Access) Bill [HL]

Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers Excerpts

3rd reading
Wednesday 5th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, I support everything that the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, has just said. Any of us who have ever acted as lawyers for women who have been exposed to this kind of conduct will know the suffering that ensues from it. The arguments placed before the House by the noble Baroness, Lady Owen, are absolutely right. The court has to have wider discretion on sentencing, because sometimes it will be, as the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, has said, that multiples of this will have been done and to many different women. It will be there on the internet for all to see, causing incredible mental anguish and pain.

I have just come from a Select Committee where we have been hearing evidence about transnational repression. We have just heard from a woman working for BBC Persian, who had the experience of photographs being turned into deepfake pornography and sent to her daughter’s school. I ask you to imagine the implications of that being circulated, to your own child’s detriment. That is the way in which these things work. I emphasise that there is no example of reasonable cause that could be imagined that could justify it—there really is not. It is very important that we all recognise that.

There will be people—let us imagine Mr Andrew Tate appearing in court for an offence of this kind, were he to do it—who will say that the world should see the beauty of women’s genitalia and admire the great beauty of women as they submit themselves to men. Do we really want the time of the courts to be taken up with that kind of nonsense—because it will be? It will be said to be about trying to inform and educate people about sexual intimacy and sexual matters. All manner of nonsense, presented as reasonable excuse, will be put before the courts—that is what will happen. I urge the court—sorry, I am going into lawyer mode. I urge the House, rather, to see the seriousness of this and that this is a moment where we should be taking a stand and saying no.

The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, raised three issues: sentencing and the options available to judges; the issue of reasonable excuse; and recognising that the prosecution authorities will not pursue a case against a child who has somehow stumbled upon a way of doing this. Very careful decisions will be made about people who have not got mental capacity. If we do not take a firm stance on this now, it will be used and abused in terrible ways, to the detriment particularly of women.

[Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers (CB)]

I simply want to endorse, but not repeat, the propositions of law advanced by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

I will do exactly the same. It is extremely important that magistrates should have the power to imprison as well as to fine.

Prison Capacities

Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers Excerpts

Thursday 12th September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers (CB)]

My Lords, the crisis in prison capacity results from the fact that the prison population of England and Wales has more than doubled over the last 30 years, and this trend is expected to continue. Why? A large part of the answer is that the length of prison sentences has been steadily growing over the same period. Indeed, the sentences imposed today are about twice as long as they were when I started out at the Bar; they are far longer than those imposed in the rest of Europe and, indeed, in Northern Ireland.

Sentencing laws have long provided that a prison sentence should be for the shortest term commensurate with the seriousness of the offence, but successive Governments have not been content to leave it to the judges to apply this test. They have introduced legislation requiring judges to impose higher sentences for offences considered to be of particular concern to the public. These have not been necessary for the purposes of deterrence, rehabilitation or protection of the public. They have usually been imposed to cater for a perceived public demand for greater punishment, but this has come with a cost: over £50,000 a year for each man in custody.

It makes no sense to spend such sums on increasing punishment when they would be better spent on rehabilitation and other measures to prevent reoffending. Doubling sentences has brought no benefit to the criminal justice system; it has led to the crisis that confronts the Prison Service today. Will the Minister seek to persuade the Government to consider the merits of reversing the trend rather than building more prisons?