European Council

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Monday 18th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I can only repeat what I said last week: the Cabinet is united and we are looking forward to a very constructive discussion tomorrow.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

[Lord Liddle (Lab)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

No, I am afraid I do not, because we have all pledged that there will be no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach]

My Lords, I am sorry, but I did give the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, the next go and the Lib Dems after that. We will then hear from the Conservative Benches.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, the Statement says that the Government will propose that our free trade with the EU should continue as now. Do the Government fear that the Eurocrats will be arrogant enough to refuse this offer which, as I have mentioned before, would be much more in EU exporters’ collective interest than it would be in ours because, if we are all forced back to the WTO, they will pay us some £13 billion in extra tariffs and our exporters will pay them about £5 billion? Can the Government assure your Lordships that they will hold firm on this offer, enlisting, if necessary, the support of EU exporters? Going further, why should our free trade together not continue indefinitely? Would that not also be quite helpful with the Irish border problem?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid I do not agree with the noble Lord. The fact that we have got to where we are shows that there is willingness on both sides to work together to make sure that we have a good outcome for both the EU and the UK. I look forward and expect that we will continue the phase 2 negotiations, including around the details of the implementation period, in the constructive manner we have seen so far.

Brexit Negotiations

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Monday 11th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We have agreed a number of important principles that will apply as to how we arrive at valuations in due course. These will ensure that the process is fair to the UK. As we leave and pay off our commitments, there will be significant sums left to spend on our priorities and a precise schedule of payments will be agreed in the second phase.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, when we come to negotiate our future trading relationship, why do the Government not say that we will be generous and offer continuing free trade? That is, after all, much more in their exporters’ interest than it is in ours. I say this because, as the excellent Civitas analyses show, there are about 6 million jobs in the EU exporting to us and we have about 3.5 million jobs exporting to them. If the Eurocrats are selfish enough to force us to the WTO conditions instead, their exporters will pay us some £13 billion in new tariffs, whereas we will pay them only about £5 billion. As to what cash we should pay them, surely we should leave that to the very end of the negotiation, and its amount should depend on whether they have tried to mess around with the City of London in the meantime.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We are committed to seeking continuity in our current trade and investment relationships, including those covered by EU FTAs and other preferential trading arrangements. We are working to agree arrangements with those partner countries to replicate, as far as possible, the effects of these agreements.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 21st February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, before my noble friend sits down—

[Noble Lords]

No!

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

He is still standing up.

[Noble Lords]

Order!

[Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)]

My Lords, we have a well-prepared speakers list giving everybody an opportunity to speak in turn. It is right and proper that we proceed with the order of business as it is before us.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

“Masters unfair to Molesworth!”

Informal European Council

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I was not in the room when President Trump and the Prime Minister had a conversation, I cannot give the noble Baroness a verbatim account. However, I can tell her what the Prime Minister has told us: that President Trump confirmed that he was 100% behind NATO. I believe that he nodded and agreed with that when he was standing at his podium. However, I am afraid that I was not there any more than she was.

As I have said, I cannot say any more about the situation regarding the status of EU nationals. We have been very clear that this is a priority for us and that we want to come to an agreement as quickly as possible. However, we also have to respect the position of our EU partners. We will try to address this issue very quickly. The Prime Minister has been extremely clear, as have I and all my Front Bench colleagues, that we hugely value the contribution of EU citizens here, and that this is a priority for us.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, further to that point, the Statement says that the general view was that mutual recognition should take place. Which of the 27 member states do not agree with that? Is it not rather depressing that the Prime Minister has already made weeks ago an offer of mutual recognition for their 3.5 million-plus people living here and our 1.2 million people living there? Is it not very disappointing that they have not already agreed that? On the question of NATO, could the noble Baroness tell us which of the EU nations are actually refusing to pay their 2% of GDP? Is not President Trump quite right in insisting that they should?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, we believe there is good will on all sides to look at the status of both EU nationals in the UK and UK nationals in member states. We consider this a priority. We believe it is something on which we will have very constructive early discussions with our European partners. We have also said in relation to NATO—the Prime Minister discussed this over lunch—that we want to encourage other European leaders to deliver on their commitment to spend 2% of their GDP on defence. We believe that a number of European countries are actively considering that and will be looking to do it in due course.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I said in the Statement, the Prime Minister discussed with our European partners the need to engage patiently and constructively with America as a friend and ally—an ally that has helped guarantee the longest period of peace Europe has known. Certainly we are and remain close partners on trade and security of defence. Also, as friends, where we have differences we need to be honest about them.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

Can I follow up the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, and repeat a question that I have put to the Government many times since 1999? Does it matter if the European Union falls apart and the democratic nations of Europe go back to their own currencies, freely trading together and supporting NATO together and so on? What is the point of the European Union now? Why do we need it at all? Should we not be very grateful if it falls apart?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We are clear that we want to see a strong Europe and we want to have a strong partnership and relationship with Europe, but we will do it as a global and independent Britain.

Judicial Independence

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Wednesday 7th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, it is the turn of the Cross Benches.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, I think that I can only repeat what my noble and learned friend said earlier; we have the utmost faith in the judiciary and will continue to do so.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, do the Government agree that it is an insult to the British people to suggest that they do not understand the rule of law? Is not the truth underlying this Question that those who do not like the referendum result are trying to use the law to overturn it?

[Lord Henley]

My Lords, the noble Lord is tempting me to comment on things that it would not be appropriate for me to comment on.

Brexit: Article 50

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

Let me try to cut to the chase for the benefit of the noble Lord. What happened as a result of the EU referendum was that the people of the United Kingdom delivered an instruction, and that instruction was to leave the EU. Quite simply, the first part of the process, the necessary key that needs to be put into the ignition to start that journey, is triggering Article 50. That is what the Government propose to do.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, has been attempting to get in. He will have a short question, then we will try to get a couple more questions in.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, I am most grateful. Is not the founding idea behind the European Union precisely that it should have to deal not with unreliable national democracies and parliaments, but with only their Governments? Why should this change now for Brexit, upon which our sovereign people have spoken?

[Baroness Goldie]

My Lords, I can only reiterate what I have already said. The most important and overriding feature about all this is the voice of the electorate. The electorate has spoken and the Government have an obligation to attend to the will of the electorate.

Brexit: Trade

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Tuesday 1st November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Mobarik]

I am sorry, but I only half-heard that question, first, because of the enthusiasm of my noble friends behind me but also because of the length of the question or questions. Perhaps the noble Lord would pick out one question and then I will answer.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

[Lord Deben (Con)]

What estimate has my noble friend made of the value of the additional trade that would be available to the United Kingdom through a free trade agreement or agreement under very special arrangements with Australia that is not now available to us as a member of the world’s largest trading community, the European Union?

[Baroness Mobarik]

I do not have figures for what might happen. All I can say is that we currently have about £10 billion worth of trade in goods and services with Australia. We are in the fortunate position of having the same legal system, the same language and the same culture, which are all positive factors in negotiating a free trade agreement further to enhance what we already have.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

[Lord Harrison (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister give an example of the elements of trade—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, has been trying to get in on a number of occasions, so we will go to him and then to the Labour Benches.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

I am most grateful, my Lords. Further to the penetrating question from my noble friend Lord Forsyth, could I ask the Government whether they are aware—

[A noble Lord]

Noble friend?

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

Are the Government aware that the aggregate GDP of the countries with which the EU has managed to sign trade agreements is a mere $7 trillion, but that four much smaller economies than ours, Chile, Korea, Singapore and Switzerland, have signed agreements with an average GDP value of $42 trillion each—or six times more than the EU? Does this not suggest that the United Kingdom, as the world’s fifth largest economy, will be able to do very much better on its own than when it is shackled to the failing EU?

European Union and Canada: Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Thursday 27th October 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Mobarik]

We want the best deal for the whole of the United Kingdom. The UK is a unique case. We want to negotiate something bespoke, but that is not to say that we are not looking at every single region of the United Kingdom to see what is best for it.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

Brexit: Horizon 2020 and Erasmus

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Thursday 7th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lawson of Blaby (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

[Lord Kinnock (Lab)]

My Lords—

Outcome of the EU Referendum

Lord Pearson of Rannoch Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

As for as the legal process for exiting the European Union, triggering Article 50 is the only legal process for us to follow. It will clearly be led by another Prime Minister, but I am sure that we as a nation will want to do it responsibly. The noble Lord asks about the repeal of the 1972 Act. That would not occur at this stage, because it would be contrary to our wanting to exit from the European Union in a responsible manner. As for his question about the single market, yes, my understanding is that if we were to remain in the single market, it would require free movement of people.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords—

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

As my noble friend knows, he and I were on different sides of the argument during the campaign, but I absolutely agree that the decision has been made, it must be respected and it should be implemented.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords, do the Government agree that it would help to calm the markets and help our informal and later formal negotiations if our negotiators show now and clearly that they understand the difference between the single market and free trade? They should explain that we are in an irresistible position to maintain our free trade, which is what our businesses really need, because there are more than 2 million jobs, principally in Germany and France, making and selling things to us than we have making and selling things to them. That applies particularly to the motor trade, where we have been threatened with a 10% tariff, but for every car we sell them they sell us 2.4 cars and they own 64% of our domestic market. Can we make the distinction between the single market and free trade and decide that it is free trade we want to keep, so that it is the French and German industries that will keep their politicians in Brussels and elsewhere under control in this vital area?

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The noble Lord is taking us into a stage which we are not currently at in asking about what we might want to negotiate, so that is something on which I cannot offer any detailed comment at this time.

I am very grateful to everybody, and I think we are about to move on to the next business.