Great British Railways

Lord Palmer Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord that staff are absolutely key. We have some very hard-working staff across the system. We need to ensure that those staff are in place to serve passengers where they are absolutely needed. It is the case there are some very outdated workforce practices within the railway system, which need to be upgraded so that we can offer a modern, seven day a week service. However, I say to the noble Lord that it is about simplification of the system, not nationalisation.

[Lord Palmer (CB)]

My Lords, I have been travelling up and down the east coast main line for 71 years, and I would like to place on record how incredibly helpful, polite and nice all the staff are, whether it be actually in Scotland or in England. They deserve a serious clap on the back.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I completely agree with the noble Lord.

Drones: Consultation

Lord Palmer Excerpts

Tuesday 29th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sugg]

The noble Lord is quite right; it is a challenge. We have brought in laws governing the use of drones within airport exclusion zones and across the country. It is against the law to fly your drone above 400 feet, but the noble Lord is right to point out that this is a complex issue.

[Lord Palmer (CB)]

My Lords, when are these committees hoping to report? Will they do so to her department or to Parliament as a whole?

[Baroness Sugg]

The airspace modernisation programme is under way and the process will take a number of years. We have not modernised our airspace for over 50 years, and doing so will bring a lot of benefits to the users of our airspace and the communities living around airports. We will ensure that the House is kept updated as plans develop.

Railways: East Coast Main Line

Lord Palmer Excerpts

Tuesday 13th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, I will certainly look at that in more detail. We are working closely with Transport for the North to understand the priorities of the north and where best to invest. We are committed to improving journeys on the trans-Pennine route. We are bringing in state-of-the-art trains, longer carriages and more frequent services to give passengers the services they want. We are going further. We plan to spend around £3 billion to upgrade the key route between Manchester, Leeds and York to give passengers faster and more reliable journeys.

[Lord Palmer (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that reaching yet another impasse is very worrying for all of the staff who work on the east coast main line? They have now had about half a dozen different employers, and it is very demoralising for them.

[Baroness Sugg]

My Lords, of course I understand the position of the staff. It is important that they have confidence in their jobs, and that is why we are looking through two options for the continuation of services up to 2020, and why, from 2020, we will be introducing the new public/private partnership.

Transport: North East of England

Lord Palmer Excerpts

Thursday 20th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. We both use all of these transport routes ourselves. In the election in 1992 she did considerably better than I did in votes cast. The day that Gateshead becomes a Conservative seat I suspect is still, sadly, a long time away. She makes some important points. She asked, first, about the A1. As she is aware, work on the A1 north of Ellingham schemes are due to start in 2018. Construction of the scheme to dual the A1 between Morpeth and Ellingham is due to start in 2019-20. Phase 2 of the Tyne and Wear Metro reinvigoration programme is currently being supported with a capital grant of £317 million. We are currently in discussions with Nexus regarding its proposals for new rolling stock for the Metro on the Ashington to Newcastle line. I am aware that this is a priority of Northumberland County Council and we are currently in discussions with it about the best method of achieving it.

[Lord Palmer (CB)]

I welcome very much the mention of the A1, but for the past 40 years successive Governments have agreed that the remaining 61% of the undualled A1 ought to dualled. Why has that not happened?

[Lord Callanan]

As someone who travels on it regularly, I can assure the noble Lord that I share his frustration. This Government have the largest programme of transport investment since Victorian times. Clearly, money is always difficult, but as I said, we are starting on the programme. I know that the Member of Parliament for Berwick-upon-Tweed is definitely on the case—particularly on my case—and is making this point with great vigour. We will get on with it as quickly as possible.

Roads: Drink-drive Limit

Lord Palmer Excerpts

Thursday 17th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend is quite right, and evidence suggests that the programme that the Government currently undertake—emphasising the importance of education—through the THINK! campaign that I alluded to, which is now celebrating more than three decades of implementation, has resulted in responsible attitudes towards drinking and driving. Of course, the general advice is, if you have a drink, resist driving and make alternative arrangements. Before reviewing anything, we need to look at the evidence base. When you look at our record here in England and Wales compared to the rest of Europe, we actually have one of the best road safety records in the whole of the continent.

[Lord Palmer (CB)]

My Lords, I very much take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Vinson. I live 10 miles into Scotland myself and I was in fact breathalysed at 10.30 am the other day. Much to everybody’s amazement, I did in fact pass. But is it not madness that there is a different limit in Scotland from that in England and Wales?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am glad to hear that the noble Lord passed the test. I think that the important issue is that there are certain powers that have been devolved and, in that respect, the Scottish Government took a decision to lower the limit. As I have said already, we are looking at the evidence produced from the lowering of that limit but, at the current time, there are no plans to review the limit in England and Wales.

Transport: London Bridge Station

Lord Palmer Excerpts

Tuesday 13th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer]

As your Lordships know, I am always happy to meet on these issues, so that is something that I shall be glad to try to accommodate. Whether we need to do so in two phases or one is not entirely clear but I hope that we can discuss this matter. The underlying issue of congestion on the railways is obviously behind many of the problems that we face. This massive set of improvements around the London Bridge area, costing about £1.5 billion, will play an absolutely key role in removing one of the major bottlenecks in the system, even though it will take several years to achieve that.

[Lord Palmer (CB)]

My Lords, are not the fiasco at London Bridge, and indeed the chaos at Finsbury Park—I was caught up in it after Christmas—and Paddington, a very good cause to renationalise everything to do with our railways?

[Baroness Kramer]

I point out to your Lordships that quite a number of the problems that have occurred have been National Rail problems, which is the one part of the system that we directly own. One of the lessons that I have learnt from watching all the problems that have been taking place—they are inexcusable and must be dealt with—is that the rail network is complex and that there is a need to make sure that it is in manageable sections which, although they have to work together, are totally driven around their primary responsibility.

Infrastructure Bill [HL]

Lord Palmer Excerpts

Monday 3rd November 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Palmer (CB)]

My Lords, I fully support this amendment. The happiest moments of my week are when I get a kiss from all the onboard staff on the east coast line on Thursday lunchtime. It is incredibly important to realise that we have had two failed privatisations on the east coast line. Even at this last stage, very late in the day, I hope and pray the Government will not denationalise the east coast line. In my view—and I spend an enormous amount of my life on the east coast line—it would be absolutely mad, especially bearing in mind the two failed franchise bids.

[Lord Judd (Lab)]

My Lords, I spend a great deal of my time on the west coast line. All I can say is that when for one reason or other I use the east coast, I look at it with some envy. It is a very successful operation. I cannot believe that this is happening for any reason other than ideological commitment. That is a daft way to run an essential national public service. Pragmatism is the order of the day.

My noble friend Lord Berkeley referred to what is happening with Eurostar. I find it extraordinarily irresponsible that a railway system of that kind, which is so basic to the strength of our economy and well-being—the European market, whether we are in the Common Market or not, is so crucial to our economic success—should be handed away from public accountability and control. That is a basic lifeline. Of course this is happening in other industries as well. When I read of the Chinese coming in on certain strategic areas, I begin to wonder where on earth our economic policies tie up with our strategic analysis of the world in which we live.

The great thing to remember—my noble friend Lord Berkeley referred to this too—is that when public companies on the European mainland take the opportunity to provide public services in this country, they do so in a context in which in their own countries this is not seen as an ideological test of purity but a matter of pragmatism: what makes sense to be practically and pragmatically in the public sector and what makes sense in the private sector. In that context, they have been highly successful.

I personally favour—and I find myself cheered to realise that the majority of public opinion seems to be in that direction—a completely publicly owned rail system within this country because it is so crucial to our economy and every other matter. I also think it has a good deal to do with the morale of those working on it. If they feel they are actually providing a public service, and get a professional pride from providing a public service rather that simply providing profits, that has an impact and some significance.

If we are not to have that in the Bill—I hope we may have it at some stage—then it seems that this is a very effective damage limitation exercise. Nobody could accuse it of being doctrinaire politics because it accepts that the private sector will be there; it just says, is it not sensible? If the opportunity occurs, it makes pragmatic good sense and there is a rational way to undertake it, the public sector should be running part of the railway system. It would be a very good test of the comparative merits of both. I find the present situation ridiculous and I am alarmed that this kind of oversimplified thinking can dictate policy on something as vital to our economy as this.

Railways: Passenger Demand

Lord Palmer Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, we would be looking at something like 14 years of weekend closures, which is extraordinary disruption. That assumes a very aggressive construction schedule of two simultaneous schemes on each route at any one time. If it was done in a more usual pattern, there would be even more weekends of closures. The question of freight is a serious one, because the alternatives would not add a single additional freight path on the southern section of the west coast main line, whereas, by transferring long distance passengers to HS2, there is a possibility of up to 20 additional freight paths on that same congested set of lines.

[Lord Palmer (CB)]

Could the Minister explain why the Government are so keen to denationalise the east coast main line when it is performing so well and contributing so generously to Treasury funds? I declare an interest as a frequent traveller on that line.

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, I shall reply only briefly, because this wanders away from the topic of the Question. The important issue is that we need significant investment in the east coast main line. The Government and DOR have done an excellent job of stabilising the service; we look to the future and to investment and growth. That is why the Government are making the decision to move ahead with the franchise, to provide a far better and improved service in future.

Railways: Crossrail

Lord Palmer Excerpts

Wednesday 5th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right that the tunnel-boring machines were not made in the UK. Each one costs about £10 million, which is a relatively small proportion of the overall project. UK businesses have benefited from the award of 97% of the contracts in the Crossrail supply chain, with 58% of contracts awarded to SMEs and 43% awarded beyond London and the south-east.

[Lord Palmer]

My Lords, has the noble Earl’s department given any thought to whether Crossrail ought to be renamed, perhaps in honour of Her Majesty the Queen after 60 years of loyal service on the Throne?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, this is an issue for the Mayor, but it is a very interesting idea and something that we will consider. There are a number of examples of railway infrastructure being named after the monarch or royal events, such as the Victoria line, Victoria station and the Jubilee line.

Railways: East Coast Main Line

Lord Palmer Excerpts

Tuesday 4th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s first question, the short answer is no. During the three years to 2012, the Treasury received £411 million and £450 million from the east coast and west coast rail franchises respectively. This is completely separate from the money that the DfT paid to Virgin Trains as part of the revenue-based risk-sharing mechanism, which by its nature is variable, so the statement that my right honourable friend made is factually accurate. The bottom line is that the plans that we have set out will drive improvements to rail services and put passengers at the heart of a revitalised rail franchising system. It is also important to remember that rail franchises are not directly comparable.

It was never intended for the east coast main line to remain in the public sector. Indeed, when the then Secretary of State, the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, explained in this House in July 2009 the decision to bring the line into public control, he said:

“I do not believe that it would be in the public interest for us to have a nationalised train operating company indefinitely”.—[Official Report, 1/7/09; col. 232.]

[Lord Palmer]

My Lords, I must declare an interest, as the House of Lords pays an enormous amount of money to get me travelling from Berwick-upon-Tweed to here, and, indeed, my family spends an awful lot of money on buying their tickets. Since the east coast service is operating remarkably successfully and is working well, why is there this desperate need and hurry to denationalise it?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, many noble Lords have privately approached me and said how well the east coast franchise is working under DOR. However, we need a longer-term investment plan for the future. The Brown review finds that franchising is a fundamentally sound approach for securing the passenger railway services on which so many people rely. The Government remain committed to benefiting from private sector innovation and operational experience in their railways.