Defending Democracy Taskforce

Debate between Lord Murray of Blidworth and Lord Hanson of Flint

Monday 6th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

Again, I hope I can assure my noble friend that the Government take the issue of deepfakes, AI and misrepresentation extremely seriously. We will be looking at that as part of the task-force remit. There are also powers within the Online Safety Act, and we are certainly reflecting on the points mentioned by my noble friend because it is important that we have integrity in our elections. People need to understand what that integrity means. It does not mean deepfakes purporting to be somebody or something they are not.

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, we are told that the Defending Democracy Taskforce will report in due course. Can the Minister guarantee to us that that report will be provided in good time for the May elections?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

It is a continuing process and, as the noble Lord will know, the task force was established when his Government were in office and continues now. It is an ongoing process; we are looking at this and will produce lessons whenever they are forthcoming. In relation to the local elections in May, we have extended Operation Bridger, which gives support, if required, to Members of Parliament and Members of this House and key individuals who face elections in May. That operation, Operation Ford, is available to give support to individuals who face election at any time when parliamentary elections are not forthcoming.

Windrush Compensation Scheme

Debate between Lord Murray of Blidworth and Lord Hanson of Flint

Thursday 19th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I second my noble friend’s welcome for Christmas and new year—in fact, I third his welcome, because I think we are all ready for that break in due course.

He mentioned the contribution of many people who came to this country from our Commonwealth partners abroad, and who have contributed to building the Britain that I grew up in. It is important that we recognise their contribution. People from both the Sikh community and the Windrush community have helped make the Britain that I am proud of, and I wish them well. I cannot commit to a statue today, but I note his representations and will certainly reflect on them. We hope that, however it is done, the recognition will be made.

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, when I was the Minister responsible for the Windrush compensation scheme, some of the best of the Home Office’s staff worked for it. It is a very impressive team based in Sheffield, and I recommend that the Minister visits its office and sees its work. On that basis, I also welcome the decision to have a single point of contact; I was keen to try to achieve that, so I am very glad that they have managed to do it. What is the current average time for processing a new claim to the Windrush compensation scheme?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Lord has got me there—if he allows me, I will reflect on that. Before I go on the welcome Christmas and new year break, I will make a telephone call to Sheffield and encourage the team to inform him, via me, of that delay in due course. I hope that, between us, we can have a very merry new year and resolve these issues for the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, and the others who deserve that recognition and resolution.

Guns Manufactured by 3D Printers

Debate between Lord Murray of Blidworth and Lord Hanson of Flint

Tuesday 10th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am not aware that the Government are relying on a Private Member’s Bill. There is a Private Member’s Bill coming forward, but it is not a Government-sponsored Bill; it is being undertaken by a Back-Bencher in the House of Commons. We will reflect on that legislation, look at what is needed and make sure that, if there are loopholes, we tie them up. Ultimately, legislation is there to say that firearms are illegal, and there are severe penalties for the ownership and distribution of those illegal firearms. If there are gaps in the legislation along the lines that noble Lords have mentioned, we will review that in due course next year.

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, noble Lords have heard the strong view of the House, from the noble Lords, Lord Harris and Lord Hogan-Howe, among others, that there is a gap in the criminal canon for the downloading of software to make 3D-printed firearms. Clearly, it would be appropriate for the Home Office immediately to launch a consultation on making it an offence to download the software to create 3D-printed firearms. Will the Minister commit to initiating such a consultation immediately?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I will take that as a representation to the Government about their proposals for next year. The Government are exploring all legislative options to criminalise the possession and supply of 3D-printed firearms templates. We are looking at that now; I hope the noble Lord will have patience in this matter.

Police Act 1997 (Authorisations to Interfere with Property: Relevant Offence) Regulations 2025

Debate between Lord Murray of Blidworth and Lord Hanson of Flint

Tuesday 10th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, we welcome and support both these orders. The first statutory instrument adds offences under the National Security Act to the list of relevant offences in the Police Act 1997, enabling the use of counter-drone powers by police and other authorised officials. This means they will have the power to use counter-drone technology and to take action against unmanned aircraft or drones which are being operated in an area around a prohibited place or a cordoned area without authorisation.

As has already been noted by noble Lords, we have seen an exponential increase in the use of drones in crime. It makes perfect sense to empower the police to tackle this rising threat. It is consistent with the evolving threat reflected in the debates on the National Security Act, which passed through this House last year.

I turn to the draft National Security Act 2023 (Consequential Amendment of Primary Legislation) Regulations 2025, which are also supported on this side of the House. As the Minister explained, this is a consequential amendment to the Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Act 2019. One can understand how these incidents occur, and it is clearly appropriate to make the order that is sought.

The National Security Act was a landmark achievement for the previous Conservative Government and passed with a good measure of parliamentary support across both this House and the other place. It reflected the evolving national security threat that our country faces. It places Britain at the forefront of efforts to protect our citizens, businesses, institutions and defence establishments from the ever-changing threats posed by hostile actors, cyber threats and covert intelligence measures. The only question I have for the Minister is: when does he estimate that the National Security Act will be fully in force?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful for the contributions from His Majesty’s Official Opposition and the Liberal Democrat Benches. I am grateful for the Opposition’s support for both orders, which are relatively straightforward and, I hope, totally uncontroversial. I hope that this House today, as well as the House of Commons in due course, will support them.

I will start with the extremely important and valid points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Doocey. The first relates to the potential for individuals not to know about a site or for the site sensitivity not to be obvious. The Government have considered that, where appropriate, steps should be taken to ensure that all prohibited places are clearly signposted for the benefit of the public. They will remain discretionary for a time, because it will not always be appropriate or practical for security reasons, but the prohibited places offences under the National Security Act 2023 take account of this. Whether or not signage is in place depends on the circumstances, and that would then determine whether or not an offence has been committed. For most places, signage is in place. There will be a limited number of places where there is no signage—but, again, it is not appropriate, even today, to talk about what types of prohibited places they may be, for reasons that are obvious.

The National Security Act 2023 protects our most sensitive sites against activity, which is why we welcomed it when it was introduced by the previous Government. Section 7 of the Act sets out what the prohibited places are, including certain Crown land in the UK, the sovereign base areas, defence establishments, and areas for the defence of a foreign state or the extraction of material for UK defence purposes, as well as sites owned or controlled by the UK intelligence services and used for their functions. Such prohibited places are inherently sensitive and therefore may be at risk. An offence might be committed under Section 5 if a person carries out unauthorised conduct in relation to that prohibited place. As has been mentioned, there would be a defence under legislation for that.

The noble Baroness asked, quite rightly, who has the responsibility of dealing with unidentified drones around these sites. The police forces play a major initial part in protecting UK defence sites from drone misuse, but responsibility for that misuse will depend on the site and its specific circumstances. The Home Office is trying to support the development of the national police counter-drone capability, which has taken place over the last five years. The SI provides greater assurances and outlines circumstances where action can be taken in relation to cordoned-off drone areas.

The noble Baroness specifically mentioned Chinese matériel. The National Police Chiefs’ Council is looking at, and collaborating with, military partners and other state drone operators to make sure that we align security standards. That means that we are looking at a national procurement framework that includes drones as part of this, and we are engaging with police forces to ensure that the suppliers added to the framework meet the required security standards.

Again, that will determine whether drones of any particular provenance are allowed to be used by UK police forces and others. That security assessment will, I hope, reassure the noble Baroness.

The final question, from the noble Lord, was about the full implementation of the National Security Act. I have to say to him: when parliamentary time allows and when government decisions have been taken. I will inform him when that moment is due to arrive.

Police Officers: Recruitment

Debate between Lord Murray of Blidworth and Lord Hanson of Flint

Tuesday 10th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth]

To ask His Majesty’s Government (1) what steps they are taking to recruit 13,000 additional police officers, and (2) what assessment they have made of the impact of a proposed reduction of Metropolitan Police officer numbers on this commitment.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Hanson of Flint) (Lab)]

As part of our safer streets mission, the Government will restore neighbourhood policing by putting police back on the beat, with 13,000 additional police officers, police community support officers and special constables in neighbourhood policing roles across England and Wales, including in London. Last week, the Prime Minister announced a £100 million fund which will be made available in 2025-26 to support the initial delivery of the 13,000 additional neighbourhood police and details of delivery for the coming year will be confirmed at the provisional police funding settlement later this month.

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, the media report that the Metropolitan Police is going to cut 2,300 officers and 400 staff next year because of a £450 million funding shortfall. This clearly will be devastating for the service. Does the Minister agree that the Government will therefore struggle to hit their target of 13,000 new police officers? Does this news put the Government’s mission-led strategy at risk?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The Government’s target of 13,000 police, police and community support officers and special constables will be met to ensure an increase in neighbourhood policing by the end of this Parliament. We have put the funding of £100 million in place next year to ensure that resource is in place to meet that initial mission which we will complete and be judged on by the end of this Parliament. The police settlement has not yet been determined. It will be announced next week, before Christmas. It will be consulted on between Christmas and January and it will be a matter for approval by Parliament by February. As yet, much of the discussion is speculation. I simply say to the noble Lord that his record still needs scrutiny and he needs to remember that his Government reduced police officer numbers by 20,000, reduced the number of PCSOs from over 16,000 to 8,000 and reduced the number of special constables from 20,000 to 8,500 in the course of their term of office. We will meet our targets. We will meet our mission statement and he will judge us on that.

Asylum Seekers: Hotel Accommodation

Debate between Lord Murray of Blidworth and Lord Hanson of Flint

Monday 25th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, there were 213 hotels in use by the Home Office at the time of the election; there are now 220. That is an increase of seven which have opened under this Government, notwithstanding the commitment in the Labour manifesto to “end hotel use”. When does the Minister envisage reducing the number of hotels again and when does he envisage ending the use of hotels, as his party promised?

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Hanson of Flint) (Lab)]

The Government have closed 14 hotels since July; there have been additions, so there is a net increase of seven hotels. The key point that the Government are trying to undertake—I know that the noble Lord will know this—is to reset the agenda on this issue. That means putting money into a secure command at sea to ensure that we do not have those small boats coming in the first place; speeding up asylum claims; encouraging deportations of those who do not have a right to be here; and looking at the long-term issues of hotel accommodation.

In answer to the noble Lord’s question, it remains the Government’s ambition to exit hotels as soon as possible, because he left us with a bill of £8 million per day and with £700 million of expenditure on a Rwanda scheme that sent four people to Rwanda, all voluntarily. We inherited a scheme that would have cost billions of pounds and would not have deterred or stopped the use of hotels. We need to speed up asylum accommodation. We will do that and, at the appropriate time, exit hotels and save the taxpayer resource by doing so.

Non-crime Hate Incidents

Debate between Lord Murray of Blidworth and Lord Hanson of Flint

Tuesday 19th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, this week the Prime Minister urged the police to concentrate on what matters most to their communities rather than being drawn into investing resources in tackling non-crime hate incidents. What steps does the Minister plan to take to send the pendulum back towards investigating real crime?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

How about the half a billion pounds that was announced today by the Home Secretary? How about the focus on neighbourhood policing, with 13,000 police officers? How about the record levels of investment in policing, which were cut under the Government in which the noble Lord served? How about getting back to the levels of police officers that existed when I was Police Minister in 2009-10? That might help to deal with some of the issues the noble Lord addresses. He knows the serious issues that this Government have pledged to address.

Small Boat Crossings

Debate between Lord Murray of Blidworth and Lord Hanson of Flint

Wednesday 13th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister for Border Security and Asylum in the other place failed to say whether the Labour Party would honour its manifesto commitment and not open any more asylum hotels. This weekend in Altrincham, we saw a new hotel repurposed, with many local people angry with this decision. Does the Minister share their concern? Does he agree that this breaches the Labour Party’s manifesto commitment?

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Hanson of Flint) (Lab)]

I am grateful for the question. No, it does not breach the Labour Party’s manifesto commitment. As the noble Lord will know, we do not comment routinely—as did his Government—on the location or content of particular asylum hostels. But he will know that this Government are resolutely committed to restarting the asylum process and to saving an estimated £7 billion for the taxpayer in doing so. We are going to deliver a major uplift in returns, and we have already returned people. We will scrap the Rwanda scheme, which the noble Lord was an architect of. We will save several million pounds in doing that and we will put that towards speeding up asylum claims and ensure that we put this matter back on track. We will revisit the Labour manifesto in due course, but I give him a firm “no” in answer to his question today.

Immigration and Nationality (Fees) (Amendment) Order 2024

Debate between Lord Murray of Blidworth and Lord Hanson of Flint

Monday 11th November 2024 Grand Committee

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome this amendment order, which proposes to adjust the fees in relation to certain immigration and nationality services, and in particular the English language qualification process. It is one of the features of the complexities of the system that these kinds of situations arise, and I am not going to be critical of the Home Office for laying an amendment order in these circumstances. It is obviously right that the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee has picked up on a perception that Explanatory Notes did not set out in enough detail the purpose of the instrument. Perhaps the Minister could let us know whether it is proposed to provide revised Explanatory Notes and, if so, when. Perhaps he could also reassure the Committee on the quality of Explanatory Notes, which I know officials in the Home Office strive hard to ensure are accurate and detailed. I am sure that the Minister will take back to the department the message that crystal clarity is required in Explanatory Notes.

Of course, the fees structure is essential in maintaining a secure system of immigration control, and indeed provides an element of being self-funding. That, of course, itself achieves the kind of immigration system that we wish to see and strengthens British immigration policy. Therefore, I welcome the order and would be grateful for an answer in relation to Explanatory Notes.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful to both opposition Front Benches for their comments. I find myself in the genuinely strange position of moving an order to rectify something that happened when we were nowhere near the legislation that is being rectified. I hope that both opposition Front Benches will recognise the fact that my honourable friend Seema Malhotra bringing forward this order in the Commons and me doing so in in the Lords are attempting to rectify an issue that was spotted prior to the general election, which would have been brought forward had the general election not been held in July.

I genuinely cannot say with any certainty why the fees for the services were not regulated when they were first set out. The rules relate to the historic nature of the issue and potential changes in a complex interaction of regulations at the time. I do not know why that happened but I am grateful that previous Ministers, with the advice of civil servants who have reviewed this as part of the procurement exercise that commenced earlier this year, have noticed a gap and therefore have asked Ministers to sign off the measures that will close that gap. Minister Malhotra, who is the lead Minister for this area in the Commons, and myself as the responsible Minister here in this House, have both agreed to take this order through accordingly.

I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, that there are no issues on the quality of the education and training provided under the orders. I am not aware of a slew of complaints about the fee levels in the past. This is simply an order to rectify what was seen to be an illegality. The Committee should welcome that and understand that that is why this order is being brought forward.

The regulations are being laid at the earliest opportunity to begin the process of rectifying the issue that has been identified. I want to assure this Committee that structures and processes are in place to ensure that the fees for new visa routes and requirements are captured in the immigration and nationality fees regulations when associated changes are made to the Immigration Rules. As has been mentioned, we are hoping to bring forward at an early opportunity, we hope before Christmas, the revised fee structure to rectify where we are currently. That will, I hope, set those fees on a proper legal footing and rectify the challenges that we have had to date.

Again, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, mentioned the sharing of information between Administrations. I find that hard. I was in Parliament in 2008. I was in the Ministry of Justice then, not the Home Office, but to be honest with her, I cannot really answer on what happened in 2008 in the Home Office with this order and its background at that time. I can simply say to her again that it is unusual for previous Administrations’ paperwork to be passed to a subsequent Administration. It did not happen in 2010 and it is not happening now. I can ask questions of officials and get good responses about issues but there is not an automatic assumption of access to previous papers. That might be something to be considered but that is a far greater sandwich display than we have before us today, if I may put it that way.

I note and take the noble Baroness’s point. However, we have to reflect on the fact that this measure is brought forward as a joint enterprise between two Administrations handing over a baton to rectify a particular problem identified previously, which this Administration are now taking forward.

Both noble Lords asked about the Explanatory Memorandum. Again, it is important to recognise that it was not the best Explanatory Memorandum in place. It is what it is now. The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, asked about a review. For the Home Office, and for other departments, given the view of statutory instruments and the importance of SIs to both Houses of Parliament, the new Government have asked for a Minister to be appointed in each department with oversight of the statutory instrument process. I am that Minister now in the Home Office, and I have to look at, clear and be held to account for the SIs that come through any part of the Home Office department. They will have to be cleared and signed by myself. That does not guarantee—because we are all human—that something that I see and clear is going to be perfect. But I hope it gives oversight to that process, which we have not had before. The Leader of the House of Commons, Lucy Powell MP, has been clear that both Houses of Parliament need to up their game on the Explanatory Memoranda, the oversight and the accountability of SIs to both Houses. Four months into the job, I ask the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, to give me space but to hold me to account in due course, as I know she will, on the performance on SIs particularly.

If there are further points that I have missed, I will reflect on them with colleagues and respond in writing, certainly to the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton. I hope that we can agree this order today and rectify the gap that has been identified. I look forward to bringing forward future SIs to continue that process in relation to the meat of this order.

Police: Junior Cadet Schemes

Debate between Lord Murray of Blidworth and Lord Hanson of Flint

Monday 11th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, the last Government met their manifesto pledge to recruit another 20,000 police officers. Does the Minister agree that to build on that record of success, it would be useful to improve the conversion rate of police cadets into recruited police officers? What steps will he take to do that?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I welcome the noble Lord to his new responsibilities. On behalf of myself and my team, I ask him to pass on my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Sharpe of Epsom, for the work that he did. He was very welcoming to me in my first four months in this House; I will try to be welcoming to the noble Lord as well.

The noble Lord says that the last Government met their objectives of recruiting 20,000 police officers. That happened after a reduction of 20,000 from when I was Police Minister in 2010, and it happened under the Liberal Democrat-Conservative coalition. Only latterly did the Government recognise the folly of that cut and slowly build those forces back up to their right size now. I agree with him that it would be very good to try to encourage police cadets to join the force. We want to build on the neighbourhood policing model, but I think it is a bit disingenuous on his first outing at the Dispatch Box to claim 20,000 new officers, when this number in fact replaced officers cut by his Government.

EU Settlement Scheme

Debate between Lord Murray of Blidworth and Lord Hanson of Flint

Thursday 24th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The Government have been aware of both the court cases and the challenges that have taken place—that happened under the previous Government. We believe that we are now legally meeting the obligations of High Court judgments and of the status scheme that was implemented following the withdrawal agreement. However, obviously we keep that under review. We are also aware of the challenges mentioned by the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, on digitisation and we are working through to, I hope, meet our obligations to those citizens who have a right now to live, work and indeed in some cases vote in this United Kingdom.

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister will have discovered that, among his officials, one of the most efficient teams is that which deals with the EU settlement scheme. To what extent are the Government committed to retaining the status review unit, which we set up under the last Government to ensure that those who had obtained EU settled status by deception or had not otherwise met the requirements were dealt with in the appropriate way?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I hear what the noble Lord has said, and although that is not directly my responsibility within the Home Office, I will refer that to my colleague who works in the House of Commons and who has direct responsibility for this area. However, I hope I can reassure the noble Lord by saying that there have been 8.1 million applications to June of this year, 7.9 million applications have been concluded, and the overall refusal rate is only around 9%. Very often, those are for reasons which this House will accept: due to criminal records or criminal behaviour. So, I hope the scheme is working well. We need to monitor it, it will be ever-changing, and I will certainly take back the points that the noble Lord made.