Police: Junior Cadet Schemes

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Monday 11th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bailey of Paddington]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to support junior police cadet schemes.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Hanson of Flint) (Lab)]

The Government recognise the value of volunteer police cadet programmes and the role they play in supporting young people and their communities. The annual Lord Ferrers Awards ceremony is organised by the Home Office to recognise the efforts of volunteer police cadets and other volunteers for their local communities. However, the management of police forces’ volunteer police cadet programme schemes is the responsibility of chief constables and police and crime commissioners.

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

Given that the relationship between young people and the Met police is at such a low ebb and that police cadets have a positive impact on community relations and young people’s safety, what assurances can the Minister give the House that funding police cadets remains a priority for the Government?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

As I just mentioned, police cadet funding is the responsibility of the police and crime commissioner and chief constable in each local area. There is no direct funding from this Government, nor was there from the previous Government over the last 14 years. However, we take very seriously the need to support police cadets; we have a safer streets mission proposing a Young Futures programme to help establish local prevention partnerships, with local interventions to help young people who might be brought into violence get involved in preventive activity. The noble Lord raises an extremely important point.

[Lord Hogan-Howe (CB)]

My Lords, I support the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Bailey, about the strength and benefit of volunteer cadets. I appreciate the Minister’s point that these are down to local decisions, but would it be worth the Home Office considering some kind of target for the number of cadets, as sometimes this can get lost when there are other priorities? About one in five goes on to become a police officer or member of police staff, and about one in three in London is from a minority community. They get contact with a lot of people and families who might otherwise not have contact with the Met police. They are worth supporting, but a target may help.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

The noble Lord makes a valuable point; I re-emphasise that we are trying to give discretion to local forces, chief constables and PCCs to determine their priorities. It is a valuable tool, which involves some people going on to the police. The vast majority do not, but they are still engrained in community support, prevention work and, as the noble Lord mentioned, understanding the role of the police. However, I hope he understands why I cannot really agree to his point about targets.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, in supporting my noble friend Lord Bailey, I suggest that it might be a good idea to encourage individuals to join the special constabulary, as I once did, because that is a good way of getting people to look to the regular police force as a career. It would also be a good idea to pay special constables, as we do retained firemen and members of the TA.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I agree with the noble Earl that—

[Noble Lords]

Viscount!

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am still getting used to this. I agree wholeheartedly about special constables. When I was last Police Minister 14 and a half years ago, there were 15,505 special constables in the United Kingdom; today, there are 6,118. It is certainly something that we wish to look at and encourage because they play a full role, but the last 14 years’ decline is not down to me.

[Baroness Doocey (LD)]

My Lords, the Met said that its decision on cadets was driven by resource challenges, but part of this problem is that all police forces are spending vast amounts of their time doing the work of other agencies, because the other agencies cannot cope with the demand. I am talking about, for example, looking after children who are in a dreadful state because they have been taken away from care. Does the Minister agree that before the situation gets out of control, we ought to sit down and come to an agreement about exactly what it is we want our police to do, and follow that up with a fundamental review of how the police are structured and resourced?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Baroness for those comments. She will know that one of the manifesto commitments of this incoming Government was to look at how we could improve neighbourhood policing as one major thrust on this, looking at a very local, community-based effort based on local requirements to get some engagement with the police—this goes back to the points made by the noble Lord earlier in his supplementary question. This will ensure that we can focus on the community response to policing issues. We are looking at all sorts of issues now regarding the reform of policing. When the police Bill comes before this House and the House of Commons later in this Session, there will be an opportunity to discuss some of the reforms that we are trying to make.

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

My Lords, the last Government met their manifesto pledge to recruit another 20,000 police officers. Does the Minister agree that to build on that record of success, it would be useful to improve the conversion rate of police cadets into recruited police officers? What steps will he take to do that?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I welcome the noble Lord to his new responsibilities. On behalf of myself and my team, I ask him to pass on my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Sharpe of Epsom, for the work that he did. He was very welcoming to me in my first four months in this House; I will try to be welcoming to the noble Lord as well.

The noble Lord says that the last Government met their objectives of recruiting 20,000 police officers. That happened after a reduction of 20,000 from when I was Police Minister in 2010, and it happened under the Liberal Democrat-Conservative coalition. Only latterly did the Government recognise the folly of that cut and slowly build those forces back up to their right size now. I agree with him that it would be very good to try to encourage police cadets to join the force. We want to build on the neighbourhood policing model, but I think it is a bit disingenuous on his first outing at the Dispatch Box to claim 20,000 new officers, when this number in fact replaced officers cut by his Government.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I declare my interest in that it was—I think—54 years ago that I was a volunteer police cadet.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

I would be grateful if the Minister, in expressing his commitment both to volunteer police cadets but also to the voluntary roles of special constables, could consider whether there is in fact a role for the Home Office generally in promoting these schemes—of course, not abrogating the specific responsibilities of a chief constable or a police and crime commissioner, but I think it is something the Home Office could run a national scheme about.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for his question. I find it impossible to believe that that was 54 years ago; he must have been a very young man at the time. He makes a very valuable point. We agree on the importance of the youth cadets, which is why Earl Ferrers, a former Home Office Minister, instituted the scheme to welcome and recognise good cadets. I presented the Lord Ferrers Awards with the Earl in 2009; he was very proud of the awards and should get credit for them. The Home Office wishes to continue that scheme and that recognition and will do all it can to encourage people to play their role as youth cadets, special constables and, indeed, proper constables.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, almost parallel to the police cadets is the Combined Cadet Force, which is particularly relevant to the military services; it faces very similar problems. Given what the Minister just referred to, will he look at some of the constituent parts of the police cadets schemes to make them more successful? At the same time, one should open that up a little more broadly to look at the rather similar problems that the Combined Cadet Force is having.

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

It is slightly outside my scope of responsibility, but I give credit to the noble Lord for the fact that the RAF, Army and Navy cadets are all very valuable. Only this weekend, we saw them marching and playing a full role in Remembrance services across the United Kingdom. It is an important point, and I will refer his comments to the appropriate Defence Minister to recognise his strength of feeling.

[Lord Paddick (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. The Minister says how supportive he is of volunteer cadets and how powerless the Home Office is in doing anything about them because of police and crime commissioners. Is it not time to review the system of police and crime commissioners to enable the Government to achieve what they want with police services?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am afraid that is a no for the noble Lord.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not the case that, after 14 years of cuts from the Tories and the Liberals, we now find ourselves having to rebuild the police force? Does the Minister think that the Opposition should apologise for 13 years of cuts and take the blame for the problems that we have with our police service?

[Lord Hanson of Flint (Lab)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for his questions. I am very proud of the fact that, when I was the Police Minister, we had the largest number of police officers on the beat in the country ever in the history of policing. That was eroded through decisions taken by the coalition Government. It was slowly built back up to its current level by the post-coalition Government, but they still cannot get away from the fact that they were responsible for a reduction in policing. Latterly that was recognised, which is to be welcomed. I want to build on that with our new neighbourhood policing model over our time in office.