Russian Maritime Activity and UK Response

Lord Mountevans Excerpts

Tuesday 28th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I certainly can do. First, I again pay tribute to the service that the noble Lord demonstrates through his activity in the reserves—it would be wrong not to do that.

I will deal with the projects one by one. AUKUS is a phenomenal project. The Government have just announced £9 billion of investment in Rolls-Royce to deliver the propulsion units for the nuclear-powered submarines. That relationship between the US, the UK and Australia is fundamental to the peace and security of the globe as we go forward. As far as we are concerned, pillar 1 is moving forward at pace. Issues may well arise with a project such as AUKUS, but they will be dealt with as necessary, and the AUKUS project moves at pace.

The pillar 2 aspects of that—the technology and development of other capabilities—are also moving along. Discussions are taking place about whether we move beyond the initial three countries to involve other countries. So, as an update to the noble Lord, I say that AUKUS is moving forward at pace.

On GCAP, which noble Lords know is the relationship between ourselves, Japan and Italy that aims to develop a sixth-generation fighter, I can say that that too is moving. Various treaties have been put in place and various commitments have been made to it. We will see a sixth-generation fighter produced by those three nations, which again will contribute to the defence and security of the globe.

Both those updates are not good news stories in terms of gloating and saying what a wonderful thing this is; but it is good to say—notwithstanding the noble Baroness’s challenge about money—that with both AUKUS and GCAP we have capabilities that are being developed that will secure our own country and alliances and enable us to stand up in the future for peace and security in Europe and beyond. As such, we should celebrate both of them.

[Lord Mountevans (CB)]

Perhaps I might come back to the homeland issues first raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and indeed by the Minister. Are the Government satisfied that business and commerce, particularly the City and energy sectors, are taking all the precautions they can to protect these critical national assets? What are the Government doing to co-ordinate the preparations?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

On the first point, like the Government and like defence industries, companies and businesses will have to look again at how much priority they give to that: that is an important point. Whether it is a telecommunications company or an energy company, it is responsible for the protection of much of its infrastructure. In terms of the co-ordination that the noble Lord asked about, that is something that I have asked about as well. If we are calling on businesses to do this, energy companies to do that, the defence industry to do this and the Foreign Office do that, that requires perhaps greater co-ordination across government. As we meet the challenges and threats as they change in the future, it may be that government needs to look at the co-ordinating mechanisms it has to ensure that they are as up to date as they need to be.

Undersea Internet Cables

Lord Mountevans Excerpts

Thursday 16th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. The Government’s position with respect to China, as I have said on many occasions, is to co-operate, to compete and to challenge. Those are the three strands of the policy. The Ministry of Defence will challenge China, where appropriate or necessary, to ensure that the international rules-based order is protected, whether that is to do with critical underwater infrastructure or with other areas in the world where the rights of navigation and free passage are threatened. The Ministry of Defence is responsible for that, not alone but with our allies, and we will challenge China where necessary to ensure that the international rules-based order is protected.

[Lord Mountevans (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Rogan (UUP)]

My Lords, how are we dealing with the threat to transatlantic undersea cables from hostile actors? Around 75% of the cables in the northern hemisphere pass through or near Irish sea waters. However, in a recent response to me on the Floor of this House, the noble Lord, Lord Vallance, seemed to suggest that the task of protecting these cables is carried out by a single ship which, with respect, does not sound remotely credible. As an esteemed Defence Minister, can the noble Lord advise me of what arrangements are actually in place to safeguard these cables serving the British Isles and how much of the bill is being paid by the Irish Government?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

A lot of action is taking place. I have pointed to the work of the Joint Expeditionary Force that has taken place, and we have mentioned the maritime assets that have been deployed to protect infrastructure. We have seen the announcement of Operation Nordic Warden, which is another JEF initiative and is run from Northwood. We are applying artificial intelligence to some of the information that comes into there to predict the ships that may threaten those undersea cables. Alongside that, Secretary-General Rutte of NATO recently announced Baltic Sentry. There is a lot of work going on to deal with this. Do we have to give it greater priority? Of course we do. Ten years ago, we were not talking about the threat to undersea cables in the way that we are now. It is another way in which the threats to this country are changing and transforming. The defence of our realm needs to change and transform to meet those threats, which is what we are seeking to do.

[Lord Mountevans (CB)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

My Lords, the principal response to this threat in the Baltic is coming from NATO. May I press the Minister a little further on the contribution that United Kingdom naval assets are making to that endeavour? In particular, the planned multi-role support ship was always intended to be an important contributor to that. May I ask for a report on progress on that important new addition to the fleet?

Defence Programmes Developments

Lord Mountevans Excerpts

Monday 25th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

First, we recognised the sensitivities around the deletion of Watchkeeper and they were a consideration. In terms of operations, the decisions around decommissioning were made in a way that would not compromise operations. The chiefs were clear to us that operations would not be compromised by any of the decommissioning taking place.

The point about the national armaments director is an extremely important one. The national armaments director is to give greater strength to the idea that we need to rebuild our arms industry and ensure that the stockpiles we have are of sufficient size to meet the threats of the future. In doing that, the relationship with the defence industry—whether the primes or the smaller companies—will be important. The important point is that it is not to be something that is in the interests of the shareholders but something that we need to discuss, which is that it is to be in the national interest and in the interests of our international alliances. That is what is important to us all. We have to have an armaments director which drives forward an arms industry which gives us the weapons and stockpiles we need.

In answer to the point from the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, I have not seen the Financial Times article with respect to the European defence industrial strategy, but that is certainly something we have been discussing with our European friends.

[Lord Mountevans (CB)]

My Lords, in concluding his remarks the Minister pointed to the need to be prepared for future threats. The United Kingdom has extensive infrastructure within the contiguous exclusive economic zone around these islands, be that oil and gas pipelines, gas and electricity interconnectors, or the vital undersea cables that are so important for the City and the two-thirds of financial services and professional business activity conducted outside London. Britain’s leading industry is very vulnerable. In view of the events last week in the Baltic and the fact that there are three warships around this possibly offending Chinese vessel down off the Skagerrak, and the continuing grey zone activity of Russian vessels around our coast and this vital infrastructure, is the Minister content that we have it adequately protected for the future and for today?

Defence Spending

Lord Mountevans Excerpts

Thursday 31st October 2024 Grand Committee

[Lord Mountevans (CB)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, on securing this important and timely debate. The Chancellor’s announcement yesterday in the Budget of an additional £2.9 billion for the Armed Forces, for all that it is most welcome, does not represent an adequate investment in our forces, their people and their equipment. The additional payments that seem to have become a feature of recent defence financing represent sticking plasters rather than a serious attempt to bring the forces to the level that is required in the current international and geopolitical condition.

Of course we all realise and welcome that the much respected noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, is currently leading the strategic defence review, but my concern is that cost will be the key decider of how much money and resource is allocated, like small boys laying out their pocket money on the shop counter to see what sweets they can afford. Money is tight at this time, but the nation and especially the Government need to rethink priorities. With a changing world order and greatly increased threats, we desperately need to reprioritise. Defence is a long-term issue, particularly in the fast-changing world that we inhabit. It is simply not possible to make up lost ground over a short period. We are seeing that now, following— I regret to say—the neglect of the Armed Forces and our defences since the so-called peace dividend following the end of the Cold War. We and the democracies in general took our eye off the ball. We now have seriously and rapidly to address our weaknesses. Most other NATO countries are doing this.

I strongly recommend an increase to 3% of national income to be allocated to defence, as proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, and the famous Chief of the Defence Staff from the RAF. The vast majority of our countrymen wish to be a force for good, to be able to defend the nation and to play our full part in NATO as well as, on occasion, further afield. But the Secretary of State recently admitted on a Politico podcast that the Armed Forces are not ready to fight in a war and must do more to act as a deterrent against future aggression. He added that the forces would need to become more effective if the UK had to go to war.

It is not just for our Armed Forces to try harder and work smarter. There is a chronic need for resourcing adequately. For example, the defence-industrial base needs consistent government policy and time, due to the fact that the base has been allowed to shrink so profoundly over recent decades. It requires time for the base to be expanded, and then outputs will be swifter and more lethal.

Noble Lords will be aware of the questions around American support for NATO, especially if the Republican candidate were to succeed in the US presidential election next week. More generally, it has to be faced that attention in the United States is turning towards the Indo-Pacific. Europe will be expected to take greater responsibility for its own defence.

More widely, if the US is to continue to regard the UK as a key ally, we must maintain the fabric and capabilities of our Armed Forces. If not, they will regard us differently, as having less value as an ally. Having left the EU, Britain has to reinvent itself and find a new role. The alternative is that we be regarded as a small country facing many challenges. It is important that we remain a strong contributor to the rules-based order and world peace.

Strong and effective Armed Forces are an arm of foreign policy and an asset to the UK as we shape our new role in the world post Brexit. The success of the Joint Expeditionary Force is an excellent example of where our Armed Forces can play a highly positive role. The JEF can be regarded as essentially a British initiative. The Swedes and the Finns found that they work well with other JEF participants—all NATO members, of course. The equipment was compatible, and the people liked and trusted each other. A good chemistry had been established so that, when Putin commenced his illegal war on Ukraine, generating great alarm in the Baltic, it felt natural for these two highly respected nations, Sweden and Finland, to join NATO.

The UK is also of course a key participant in the AUKUS deal. UK defence has played a role in strengthening peace prospects in the Indo-Pacific. I believe we can be very hopeful that this important co-operation project will give courage to south-east Asian and other Indo-Pacific nations that they can be part of a response to a bullying China. The GCAP agreement is similarly a positive development in alerting those facing challenge that we recognise their situation.

Some 40% of Russian state expenditure is now on the military. Should Russia be successful in Ukraine, many analysts feel that Putin will be emboldened to embark on further military action in Europe. As noted by the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, it is significant that prominent among NATO states with the highest proportion of national income spent on defence are Baltic countries bordering on Russia. If Britain continues to respond to the risks and challenges inadequately, it would all come back to haunt us.

There is never enough money for welfare payments. Would the Minister like to comment?

Strategic Defence Review

Lord Mountevans Excerpts

Wednesday 9th October 2024 Grand Committee

[Lord Mountevans (CB)]

My Lords, we all agree that the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, is a highly suitable chairman for this review. He is also a man with knowledge of commercial shipping and strategic industry, so I begin on a wider note.

Yesterday, I attended a major commercial shipping conference organised by the UK Chamber of Shipping at the Westminster conference centre. It is significant to report that among commercial shipping people there is, of course, much heightened awareness of the threat internationally to ships, crews and cargoes. British fleets, and other what might be called rules-based order fleets, are increasingly aware of the extent to which they may have to rely on the potential protection and general support of the Royal Navy and associated NATO fleets, as well as the Royal Navy’s partners around the world. I believe that it is important that this sentiment is reported back to your Lordships’ House, particularly in this debate.

International trade is the lifeblood of the UK economy and nation. There is great appreciation for the men and women of the Royal Navy and all that they do to protect trade and what we commonly refer to as the rules-based order. There is likely to be an increasing need for this support, but my principal intention in speaking is to highlight the vulnerabilities and risks that exist for the United Kingdom’s economy in what might be termed coastal infrastructure.

The UK’s coastline exceeds 7,700 miles and embraces some 120 ports. These are vital for the supply of food, medicines, raw materials and more to the nation, as well as for facilitating exports. However, the nation’s exclusive economic zone—an area of almost 300,000 square miles—contains a hotchpotch of marine infra- structure, which is also critical to the nation. I begin with the underwater cables that connect the City of London and the nation’s financial services with New York. This is Britain’s most successful industry and vital to the economy. The volume of daily data and digital traffic is too great to be communicated via satellite, so it is carried by around 60 undersea cables. If only a few of these were damaged, the impact would be enormous: around $10 trillion of business a day is reckoned to be transacted through them.

All this represents a profound vulnerability at a time of increasing and overt actions by malign actors, some of them state actors, including Russia. There is growing awareness of this vulnerability in the City of London, where I served as Lord Mayor in 2016. After a long career in shipping in the City, I now regard myself as more of a West End boy, contributing where I can in your Lordships’ House. As may be imagined, however, I retain close connection with the City of London Corporation and certain sectors. There is growing awareness in certain quarters of the risks that are posed to the nation’s marine infrastructure. In this House, we very properly declare our interests. Perhaps I can say at this stage that a group of senior City practitioners and others with highly relevant experience and expertise are forming a group to look at these and other vulnerabilities to ensure that they are noted, understood and, wherever possible, addressed. I have been invited to chair the group, which I am honoured to do unless I can find some other unfortunate.

The underwater cables are just a part of this highly developed and extensive network of infrastructure systems that benefit and protect our nation. Energy is critical for the nation’s success and security. There is the web of pipelines that connect oil and gas fields to the mainland, and there are gas and electricity interconnectors that link the UK with other countries, notably Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, France and Denmark. Most visibly, there is the growing number of offshore wind turbines around our coasts. They are much in evidence already, but my understanding is that what can be seen now is a mere 10% of what will be in place when the current programme of installations is complete.

At a time when a major land war is being fought in Europe and there is increasing grey zone activity, including from state actors, it is vital that this critical and extensive marine infrastructure is protected in all ways possible. The nation’s resilience becomes ever more important, not least given the moves to just-in-time delivery of so many materials and products. It is valid to ask which entities have ownership and control of the assets and infrastructure and have responsibility for their maintenance and servicing. The cables are fundamental to the operation of the City of London and one of the world’s leading financial centres, while the energy-related assets are equally fundamental to the functioning of industry, the economy and society. Can the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, confirm that this vital national infrastructure, with all the vulnerabilities that it carries, including, but not limited to, physical damage and cyberattack, is prominent in his priorities?

We should not forget that the UK’s EEZ, if the Crown dependencies and overseas territories are included, amounts to some 2.62 million square miles. Can the noble Lord confirm that they will also be within the scope of the review?

I turn to other key considerations. We need to develop and grow a skilled labour supply capable of staffing our industries and energy base, and indeed our shipyards and Armed Forces. There is a need to go beyond the simple contract price when awarding government contracts and look instead at whole-of-life costs and the multiplier impacts of contracts awarded in the UK. Defence is everybody’s business. As the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, noted earlier, we require a national effort on this and need to develop a strategy for engaging with the general public.

AUKUS

Lord Mountevans Excerpts

Thursday 29th February 2024 Grand Committee

[Lord Mountevans (CB)]

My Lords, I join in congratulating the noble Lord, Lord Risby, on sponsoring this important and timely debate. AUKUS is an agreement of the greatest significance, a very high-tech defence project within the non-proliferation framework. It is also a significant opportunity for Australia, Britain and the United States for employment and the development of leading-edge technology.

From all that we hear, things in general are proceeding well, but it is still very early days for AUKUS. My understanding is that there has been solid progress on where the project needs to go, but there remains a great deal of detail to be decided. I want to look at some detail on the workings between the partners.

The three countries are close allies, but there is a need for vigilance so that the opportunities and benefits are shared equally. The United States has a particular strength—an admirable strength—in defence technology. This is a very good thing. But there is a risk, and a very real one, that the tech opportunities will be taken by the United States at the expense of Australia and Britain. What steps are the Government taking to ensure that Britain and Australia benefit appropriately, as envisaged in what I believe to be the spirit and intent of the agreement? We need to be confident that the benefits are mutual.

It is intended that the UK and Australia also grow and enhance their technological, business and academic bases. The protection of IP is essential for the development of our industrial, academic and research bases. It is also vital for Britain and Australia to maintain and grow employment, especially under pillar 1. We also need to be vigilant to ensure that Britain does not end by losing skills, not least experienced Royal Navy engineers, to our very good Australian friends.

In a project of this scale and importance, it is essential that what might be termed a common information infrastructure is established, especially for the delivery of pillar 2 capabilities. We are assured that an advanced capabilities forum is in the process of being established as an essential vehicle for the exchange of information between government and industry trilaterally.

For Britain and Australia, negotiations to gain approval under the US International Traffic in Arms Regulations regime—ITAR—as outlined by the noble Baroness, Lady Stuart, could inadvertently handicap broader UK exports outside of the AUKUS partners. Discussions with ITAR must be carefully handled, and with great attention.

A final point: the three nations are close allies and very good friends. The behaviour between them over the next 20 years and more will be critical to the success of AUKUS. Given its long-term nature, it is necessary to bear in mind that there will be elections in each country, very likely at different times, as pointed out by the noble Lord, Lord Risby. There is a need for great tact and understanding between the partners. What thoughts does the Minister have has on this serious requirement?

King’s Speech

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Wednesday 15th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mountevans (CB)]

I join in welcoming the noble Earl and in thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, for her outstanding service. I join in celebrating the continuation of the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, on the Government Bench, and I congratulate the noble Lords, Lord Roberts and Lord Young, on their excellent maiden speeches.

Addressing foreign relations first, I make a plea for increased attention to Latin America—nobody has mentioned this—a region that typically in recent years has not gained the attention and resources it deserves. I declare my unremunerated interest as honorary president of Canning House. There is so much good will for the UK in South America and central America. These are countries typically enjoying higher growth rates than the UK, and in the meantime China is all over them like the proverbial cheap suit. The recent signature of the UK-central America association agreement has been warmly greeted by our central American friends, and we should be delighted by the flow of important delegations and visitors from the signatory countries. This is an opportunity we should grasp.

On international relationships and defence, in an increasingly contested world, Britain strives to be a force for good. The Government are to be congratulated on much that they have accomplished, but I think we can all recognise that additional investment is required now in defence. A key factor today is what might be called warning time. In the 2010 defence review, and I think the 2015 iteration, the belief was that Britain would have enough warning time to prepare in a conflict. In the last 18 months, we can see that this is no longer a valid assumption, if it ever was. Today, malign action could come out of an almost clear sky.

Putin’s annexation of Crimea was unexpected, and then we wanted to believe that he would not attack Ukraine, but he did. And now, to everyone’s surprise, Hamas has attacked Israel, with devastating consequences. We can all wonder if Putin had any input in this very calculated attack. We can be sure Iran did. We can see that major threats and attacks can come very rapidly—no 10-year preparation. We must be fully prepared with the right numbers of regulars and reserves, adequate kit and proper hardware for our gallant Armed Forces.

With the threat from China and Russia—and jointly in the far north—not forgetting threats to underwater infrastructure as well as to seaways, this is a maritime era. I say this as an honorary Royal Naval officer with an entire career in maritime. But we must also be prepared for land engagement in Europe, potentially in the Baltic, where Finland and hopefully Sweden will shortly be members of NATO. The Baltic becomes a choke point for Russian access to the North Sea and to the Atlantic, with the Black Sea also a potential choke point via the Bosphorus. Russia may see ocean access for its ships only in the far north and in the Pacific. We must urgently look at land forces.

Our reserves are now part of what is called the total force—with a revolving door—but what then of back-up? How does the Minister see back-up? In the stellar debate of the noble Lord, Lord Soames, a few weeks ago, the noble Lord, Lord Lancaster, had just returned from Poland where they were to increase their reserves by 100,000. Our reserve strength is around 30,000. We should do everything we can to increase the reserves.

My final point is of the utmost importance. For me, a real elephant in the room is the state of the union. Going back over centuries, the Scots and the Irish have made enormous contributions to Britain’s, Europe’s and international defence. Not enough of us are engaged in convincing those of our splendid Scots and gallant Irish friends who may seek independence rather than the benefits of a United Kingdom. We should embrace them more directly rather than standing back for fear of offending them. Scotland and Ireland are of the utmost importance for many reasons, including their remarkable contribution to our Armed Forces manpower, the role of Scotland in our warship construction, the array of ports across both Scotland and Northern Ireland as a base for the nuclear deterrent but also for access to the North Sea and the far north. A dismembered kingdom would not have the diplomatic voice or heft of a United Kingdom.

Armed Forces

Lord Mountevans Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mountevans (CB)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Soames, on securing this debate and on so excellently setting the scene in his introductory remarks. I also declare my interest as an honorary captain in the Royal Naval Reserve.

I very much associate myself with most of what has been said by the other speakers, especially on the level of defence spending, the need for urgent action and the critical importance of reserves. I support the comments of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Richards, on the critical importance of a strong and growing economy.

Previous speakers have done an excellent job of highlighting the important contribution and needs of the armed services; I might add their value and importance in diplomacy. The Joint Expeditionary Force was an outstanding success, which played a part in the decision of Sweden and Finland to join NATO—a major development. Britain played a significant role here and in the AUKUS agreement with Australia and the US. Both were of great diplomatic value, demonstrating an outward-looking United Kingdom at a time when we had left the EU.

Our actions and clear thinking in support of Ukraine have gained us considerable admiration among close friends and others who are not so committed. This is Britain in an outward-facing role. Britain’s support for open seas and the presence of the Royal Navy are important not only for Britain as a trading and maritime nation but for all trading nations.

More can be said about the contribution of the services to our national well-being beyond defence. We have not said a lot about their contribution to humanitarian aid in times of weather or health emergencies. Their skills and training are of benefit to wider society, as is their innovation in science and technology. I believe that more can be done to bring across expertise and knowledge gained in the military into civilian life and the wider economy.

We have heard about procurement mistakes, but mention has not been made of the export benefit that Britain gains from every delivered F35 jet, where 15% of equipment value accrues to the United Kingdom. The AUKUS project will be based on the British next-generation submarine. I also draw attention to the sale of the design of the Type 26 frigate being built in Australia and Canada, as well as the Type 32 being built in Poland.

In concluding, I want to make the case for a whole-of-society approach to defence and the support of our armed services. When I was coming up to my year as Lord Mayor of London, one of my predecessors, the late Sir Roger Gifford, told a reservist audience that defence is everyone’s business. Of course he was right, and I have never forgotten his words. As we have heard, not all of society is properly conscious of our Armed Forces and their needs. Most of us here had parents who were in the war, and people had uncles, neighbours and so on who were in the services, so they were connected to the services and knew a great deal about them. This is not the case now, with our smaller services. What steps can the Government take to increase public understanding of the role and importance of the armed services?

Defence: Support Ships and Type 32 Frigates

Lord Mountevans Excerpts

Tuesday 20th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

That is a matter for the palace. However, I am sure that if His Majesty were to review the fleet, it would be very positively received.

[Lord Mountevans (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister has made some excellent points in defence of our wonderful Royal Navy. However, the impressive response of Ukraine in the current conflict demonstrates the rapidly changing nature of warfare and the growing importance of agility and flexibility. The Royal Navy is working hard to maximise these latest technologies, including AI. Does the Minister agree that the Type 32 frigate addresses all those developing priorities?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

The Type 32 is conceived as an agile, resilient and capable ship. However, I point out to the noble Lord that we have already, for example, upgraded Type 45s with the Sea Viper Evolution programme and upgraded Type 23s with the Naval Strike Missile in partnership with the Norwegians—the first ship will be ready by the end of the year. In addition, the initial Sonar Type 2150 ships have already been upgraded. We are constantly reviewing how we can keep our fleet swift, agile and effective.

AUKUS Defence Partnership

Lord Mountevans Excerpts

Thursday 16th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

If the SRO had these powers, I would be tempted to bring him into this Chamber to address some of the interrogatories.

I indicated to the noble Lord, Lord Lee, that Astute was accompanied by significant problems but, as I said earlier, boat 7—that is “Agamemnon”—will be the final in class. Boat 6 is still at build stage—that is “Agincourt”—but the other five are now operative, so I think we have a perfectly healthy situation.

The noble Lord is right that, as has already been indicated in the Chamber, a very robust assessment will need to be kept on this programme. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Fox, it is not a question of embarrassment and falling down on the job but that, with three eyes focused on what we are trying to deliver, there is a third leg to the protections of that robust surveillance of the contract. I am sure that the senior responsible owner will be in place for a meaningful period. As the noble Lord, Lord West, is aware, my Secretary of State is very conscious of, and vigilant about, ensuring that where these major procurement projects are under way, he knows first-hand what is happening. He will be watching this like a hawk.

[Lord Mountevans (CB)]

My Lords, the importance of the sea lanes and underwater cables is widely known, and submarines are very valuable in this domain. It is well acknowledged that the latest generation of Russian submarines are a great deal better than what they have had in the past. Can the Minister say anything about the nature of the co-operation on this occasion and further co-operation with the United States, bringing together all the experience and expertise of the US Navy and the Royal Navy in this domain? How will it affect the design of the new AUKUS submarines?

[Baroness Goldie (Con)]

I am not an engineer or a naval technical expert on ship build, but I would say that he is quite right. There is now a repository of skills and experience that will contribute greatly to how this type of submarine is designed. It has already been established, because it is now being known as SSN-AUKUS, that it takes us a step further than where we originally thought that we would be with a successor to Astute. Those aggregated skills are very important, and I am sure that they will be put to very valuable effect in determining the final design of the submarine.