Railways Bill

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Monday 13th July 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill]

That the Railways Bill be committed to a Grand Committee and that it be an instruction to the Grand Committee that they consider the bill in the following order:

Clauses 1 to 11, Schedule 1, Clause 12, Schedule 2, Clauses 13 to 91, Schedule 3, Clauses 92 to 96, Schedule 4, Clauses 97 to 102, Title.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps we could have a bit more of an explanation from the Government as to why this Bill is being taken not on the Floor of the House but in Grand Committee. This is a major piece of legislation which affects every rail user up and down the country. It was first announced in the first King’s Speech of this Session and, unusually, repeated in the second King’s Speech, so it is not as if it is something new. This was supposed to be a priority. It is a priority which is taking a long time to deliver. It has incredibly important consequences and should be discussed not in Committee but on the Floor of the House. Perhaps the Minister will explain why the Government want to take this Bill into Committee rather than deal with it on the Floor of the House, as we usually do with most of the controversial pieces of legislation before your Lordships’ House.

Drink-Driving

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Wednesday 1st July 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, the number of drink-driving convictions is falling, which is very welcome news. But the number of drug-related driving offences is on the increase, which is very concerning indeed. In 2015, the law was changed to make it easier to get prosecutions. I think there is still a lack of understanding in the general public of the danger of drug-driving. Will the Government look at whether they are doing sufficient to highlight this as a very serious crime?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The noble Lord is absolutely right: drug-driving is, as he said, on the increase. We are consulting on better detection of drug-driving, because it is a complex issue: there are many different sorts of drugs and not all the methods of testing will currently stand up in court. But he is absolutely right and we are on the case for this. We publicise the huge dangers of doing it, but we need to get through the operational and forensic challenges of detecting different sorts of drugs through alternative forensic testing procedures, including oral fluids, saliva and sweat.

HS2 Ltd: Consultants

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Monday 22nd June 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The noble and learned Lord needs to look at the Benches across from me, because phase 2a of HS2, which would have run from Handsacre to Crewe and then on to Manchester, was cancelled peremptorily by one of the previous Conservative Prime Ministers at virtually no notice and without some of the consequences being either foreseen or requested afterwards. This Government are keeping the land that has already been purchased, and we are thinking carefully about what needs to be done north of Birmingham to Crewe and to Manchester.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, first and foremost, as some who uses the railway line from St Pancras to Derby, I say to the Minister that everyone shares the thoughts of the Government, and I am sure the Minister will come to the House as soon as he has any interim information on what the Rail Accident Investigation Branch reveals.

As far as HS2 is concerned, the Minister is absolutely right to say that it is more about capacity than speed, as has always been the case. However, there is no doubt that there is a huge number of lessons to be learned about how these contracts are dealt with, from some of the things that have gone terribly wrong. Bearing in mind reports in the Times last week about how much more infrastructure costs in this country than in the rest of Europe, will the Government look at those reports in detail and see what lessons can be learned?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I have the greatest respect for the noble Lord and his knowledge, and I know that he travels regularly on the Midland Main Line. I am sure that I will be standing here as soon as there are some concrete facts on the accident.

The noble Lord is right: the reports suggest that we certainly do not build major projects very cheaply. I say to him—I hope he is familiar with this anyway—that we can do large projects. The Transpennine Route Upgrade—which nobody talks about, which will cost at least £13 billion to £14 billion and is in hand now on a railway that is operating every day—is on time and on budget. It is worth reflecting that the claims that this country can no longer do these things are not correct. We can do them, but they need to be thought about and planned properly—you do not start the job until you know what you are buying—and then managed cleverly by people who know what they are doing, in partnership with contractors. The result will be that we will show that we can do a big project on the railway in the north of England.

King’s Speech

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Wednesday 20th May 2026 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill) (Lab)]

My Lords, it is an honour to be closing today’s debate on behalf of His Majesty’s Government. I extend my thanks to His Majesty for his gracious Speech and to all noble Lords for their thoughtful contributions, except perhaps for the last one, which I shall mostly ignore.

I begin by echoing what my noble friend Lady Merron said in her admirable opening speech. She set out clearly and concisely the scope of the Government’s programme for the second Session in the areas of health, housing and transport. I am grateful to her not only for her clarity but for being a valued friend and colleague, as is the Minister for Housing, Communities and Local Government here on the Front Bench.

As my noble friend Lady Merron was in relation to health, I am immensely proud of the progress this Government have made in laying the foundations for better public services, particularly in transport. Transport and the railway have been my life’s work, so it is a privilege to be part of the biggest transformation of the railway in over 30 years. We have also enabled a quiet revolution in bus service provision through the Bus Services Act and opened real opportunity for British innovation with the Sustainable Aviation Fuel Act. I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions on these Acts.

I was wondering yesterday and the day before how my noble friends closing these debates would cope with so many varied contributions, and now I have to do the same. I will do my best, but I am reassured that noble Lords who have spoken with such knowledge and passion will raise all their points in the passage of the Bills that are in the King’s Speech.

Before I talk about the Bills themselves, I will address a variety of other matters raised by noble Lords today. I start with the noble Lord, Lord Butler, who spoke widely and wisely, particularly about the Civil Service. I am delighted that he commended the new Cabinet Secretary and his views on impartiality are, of course, supported. The noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, spoke about the peerage removal Bill. We will take careful note of what he said tonight and when he speaks on the Bill itself.

My noble friend Lord Jordan spoke about accidents and, while I cannot say that we will take up his argument about an approach across government, he can rest assured that individual parts of government take this subject extremely seriously. My noble friend Lady Jones of Whitchurch spoke widely about the huge desirability of industrial harmony through dialogue and partnership. I echo that and, in terms of the progress on the railway towards Great British Railways, we will pursue it, and I am pleased that she welcomed the new arrangements in social care.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb and Lady Young of Old Scone, raised the absence of the environment from the subjects for debate. I cannot account for that, but this Government are very serious about this subject. Let me give three examples: the pursuit of net zero, the vigorous action by my noble friend Lady Hayman of Ullock on farming and the environment, and the pursuit of more freight by rail are all individual examples of the Government’s care about the environment in the future. I will ask my noble friend Lady Hayman to write to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, further on that subject.

My noble friend Lady Linforth raised clean air in public spaces for kids. Again, I defer to my noble friend Lady Hayman of Ullock on that subject.

The noble Lord, Lord Robathan, made a wide-ranging speech on various subjects. He raised antisemitism, and I cannot believe that he cannot see a very strong response from this Government to the recent outrages to the Jewish community.

The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, spoke passionately about food standards. The Government thank her for her work in this area. I therefore hope that I have covered most of the subjects raised that do not really appear to be covered by the main subjects of this debate today.

Moving to health, this Government have already taken serious action on waiting lists. They are down by half a million and the number of people waiting less than 18 weeks for planned care is now at 65.3%, up from 59%. Ambulances responding to strokes and heart attacks are arriving 5 minutes faster compared to last year and we are meeting our manifesto commitment to recruit an additional 8,500 mental health staff, three years early. That is a foundation which we are not yet satisfied with, but it is a reasonable start.

The objectives of the NHS Bill have been debated in many contributions today. My noble friends Lady Nargund and Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick both fully supported the Bill. Others took a view that care needed to be taken about how this huge change, the abolition of NHS England, should be done—in particular, the noble Baronesses, Lady Shawcross-Wolfson and Lady Bray. We also note the important points made by the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, on this subject. It is a large step, and this Government are committed to doing it wisely, carefully and properly.

My noble friend Lord Babudu and the noble Baroness, Lady Shawcross-Wolfson, talked about prevention, which is important and one of the principal features of the Government’s policy. The noble Lord, Lord Kamall, and the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, talked about the connections between health and place. As it happens, the Secretary of State for Health in the other place is making a major speech on this tomorrow.

There was a lot of discussion about the single patient record, data security, careful use and comprehensiveness. The noble Baronesses, Lady Bray, Lady Tyler and Lady Walmsley, the noble Lord, Lord Patel—who was particularly helpful—and my noble friends Lady Pitkeathley and Lady Nargund all supported it. We listened with interest to the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, on the experience of Northern Ireland. My noble friend Lord Davies talked about the particular circumstances about Palantir. We are reviewing the federated data platform contract in advance of the break point. The single patient record is different: it will be supplied through contracts with multiple suppliers with no single supplier dominating. No decisions have been made about who those will be.

My noble friend Lady Donaghy and the noble Lord, Lord Black of Brentwood, talked about osteoporosis and the fracture liaison services. The Government are committed to rolling out fracture liaison services everywhere by 2030, and my noble friend Lady Merron is well prepared to respond to any new issues in that respect.

My noble friend Lord Winston talked about egg freezing. I am singularly unqualified to deal with this subject in any practical way, but my noble friend Lady Merron has listened very carefully to everything he said and has committed herself to write to him.

Similarly, the noble Lord, Lord Mott, spoke about cancer and maternity services. My noble friend Lady Merron listened to that carefully too and is acting on it already. Lastly, the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, talked about his Bromley-by-Bow experience—as a matter of coincidence, he has shown me around that very thing—and it is an obvious long-term experience for government to take an interest in.

On health and local government, the first thing to say is on the Social Housing Bill. The Government believe that everyone deserves to live in a decent, safe, secure and affordable home. The Bill will provide much- needed social housing stock, give affordable housing providers the clarity and confidence they need to build more social homes, and better protect tenants who are victims of domestic abuse by providing them with greater security and stability. The Bill delivers on the manifesto commitments to prioritise the building of new social rented homes and to better protect our existing stock.

A number of noble Lords supported the concept of the Bill, but, unsurprisingly, there was some criticism of it. I can tell the noble Baroness, Lady Eaton, that the proportion of people in rented accommodation is stable and has been since 2013-14. There has been a 3% increase in available homes in quarter 1 of 2026, and buy-to-let loans have increased by 14% in a year. Therefore it is not evident that there is a reduction. The noble Lord, Lord Bailey of Paddington, talked about stamp duty but did not explain where the £11 billion that it would cost to abolish it would come from. The Government are working with the Mayor of London on an emergency housing package to enable rapid delivery of what London needs.

The noble Lords, Lord Young of Cookham, Lord Best and Lord Truscott, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Shah and Lady Watkins, commented on various aspects of leasehold reform. I am confident that, when the Bill comes forward, they will have much to say during its passage. The Government believe the Bill is moving in the right direction to deal with what a number of noble Lords this evening have described variously, up to scandalous. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chelmsford is right that people are entitled to a home and that young people are entitled to have the certainty of knowing where they are going to live. There are powerful arguments for housing reform and I hope that she is convinced that the Government will move in the right direction.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, referred to social housing. My noble friend remarked that the £39 billion that the Government have allocated to that subject will certainly help provide it. She also referred to SME builders. The £16 billion National Housing Bank, started on 1 April, includes provision for financial support and loans for SMEs in the housing market.

The noble Lord, Lord Best, spoke powerfully about all aspects of the Bills that are being brought forward. I am sure he will make valuable contributions to the discussion of them when they arrive.

I move on to the four transport Bills. The Railways Bill will deliver on the Government’s manifesto. I was enormously encouraged by hearing from the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, who all of us with any connection with the railways admire and respect. As somebody who was there when the railways were nationalised in 1948, he has pretty good experience of what is going on. He is right that running railways is a job for railway people. The intention of this Bill is not, as it is wrongly characterised, to give any more powers to the Secretary of State—both the Secretary of State and I want less power—because the railway deserves to be run by people who understand how to make it work better, which is what passengers want.

I have the greatest respect for the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin. However, we are not starting from where he would like us to be but from where are at the moment. The railway needs an injection of vigour to get better reliability, drive up patronage and drive down costs. That has been seriously absent in the railway post Covid, even though it is run by allegedly vigorous private sector operators.

My noble friends Lady Dacres and Lady Wilcox talked about the benefits of transport investment. They are right that transport is not an end in itself. Transport is the means by which you create growth, jobs and homes. The noble Baroness, Lady Dacres, talked about the Bakerloo line extension to Lewisham. It is up to the Mayor of London to make the case and I know that he will do so. She talked about long-term finance. This Government have given that mayor the first long-term financial settlement for some considerable time, so that he can both spend the money better and decide where it should go.

My noble friend Lady Wilcox talked about it in terms of Wales. This Government have put over £400 million of railway investment into Wales, creating new stations in south Wales and better services in north Wales. That is an example of working together to create benefits throughout Great Britain. I am very pleased to join my noble friend Lord Faulkner of Worcester in congratulating the Talyllyn Railway on its 75th anniversary in preservation—it was the world’s first preserved railway—which is great. He also talked more substantively about encouraging freight, which the Government are extraordinarily keen to do. Freight will form a part of the Railways Bill and a commitment will be made to freight growth in the railway. He also referred to the new service between Bristol and Oxford. That is an example, post Covid, of getting towards the new era and working collaboratively to produce new services. I am sure that Great British Railways will produce more of them.

The high-speed rail Bill described in the gracious Speech is currently headed the High Speed Rail (Crewe-Manchester) Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Moylan, is right that it was put forward by the previous Government. However, since the previous Government summarily cancelled phase 2a of HS2 between Birmingham and Manchester, the Bill has languished. It is now being reactivated because, contrary to what he said, the Government are funding Northern Powerhouse Rail. In fact, this is the first plan for railways for the north of England that is properly funded. Part of that Bill is necessary to create the new line between Manchester and Liverpool.

In the meantime, the trans-Pennine upgrade, which is funded and in delivery on time and on budget, will improve connectivity across the Pennines. On improvements east of the Pennines, the railways in Yorkshire will come sooner because they do not need new railways. There is a credible plan for the whole of Northern Powerhouse Rail. I am very happy to take the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, through the plans to describe precisely what they are. They are funded and there is a considerable amount of money in this spending review to move forward with them.

My noble friend Lord Berkeley and the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, referred to HS2. The Secretary of State for Transport in the other place made a Statement about HS2 yesterday. It is a scandal. I am sure that my noble friend Lord Berkeley can be satisfied that he did tell us that it would cost a lot of money. But I am not sure he told us that the thing had been hideously mismanaged by a series of Governments and management boards of HS2. That is the lesson to be learned: not to not do these schemes but to do them properly. The trans-Pennine upgrade is one example of a scheme that is being done properly and on time.

It is not true that Britain cannot do these things. What is true, as the review recently set out, is that you should be slow to start these projects, decide what they are and then be quick to build them. This one was the other way around. The specification was obviously done by zealots. Part of it is incapable of being delivered because it is so technically advanced. That was wrong when it started and we are having to put it right now.

The highway financing Bill is not a bureaucratic Bill, contrary to what the noble Lord, Lord Robathan, said. It is a perfectly decent proposition about how to fund the Lower Thames Crossing and other future major road schemes. The noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, is right that there has to be genuine value for money for taxpayers. We are not proposing to do anything at all like Thames Water, for very obvious reasons, and there is absolutely no doubt that during the passage of the Bill we will debate why the regulated asset base is right for this class, as the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, pointed out.

The noble Lord, Lord Moylan, is right to say that the civil aviation Bill, which has a number of powers, including much better powers for consumers, replaces EU legislation. He has pointed out to me on numerous occasions recently in dealing with statutory instruments that the powers to do that run out very shortly, and this Bill is necessary to replace them. We will debate to what extent it is desirable or necessary to have the Civil Aviation Authority making some of the rules when we get there. The Government’s view is that it is quite reasonable to delegate some of these powers to a competent authority, leaving some others to the authority of the Secretary of State.

I am very pleased that the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, raised micromobility. This House has debated micromobility, e-scooters and the like a number of times in the last nearly two years now. Although it did not feature in the gracious Speech, it is our intention to consult before the end of this year on what we will do about micromobility. The noble Baroness knows the range of different sorts of regulations there are throughout Europe. We have shared that information with her, and indeed I hope with others in your Lordships’ House. If we have not, I am very happy to share it. There is a huge divergence of views about how to regulate these things, so we need to properly consult on them before we get there.

The noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, referred to the draft taxi and private hire Bill, which was in the gracious Speech. I take this opportunity to pay tribute to her for our collaboration to make the relevant part of the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Act serve the immediate purpose of better regulation of taxi and private hire out-of-area working. That really is not enough, so this draft Bill, which will need a lot of discussion because circumstances vary throughout the United Kingdom, is absolutely necessary.

I am tempted to respond to the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, on a couple of his points because, well, why not? He referred to the £2 fare cap, but what he did not say is that the previous Government instituted it but did not fund it much past the election date—

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

How has Andy Burnham managed to fund it, then, in Manchester alone?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The process by which bus franchising was established in Manchester was absolutely tortuous, although he was enabled to do it. The purpose of the bus services Bill is to make it easier to do, but the results are spectacularly good.

I have not been watching the clock. My time is up. I should say that my noble friends Lady Merron and Lady Taylor have listened carefully to the whole debate, as I have, and they will be as well placed as I am to take forward all the issues raised by noble Lords. The gracious Speech marks the next phase in our plan to deliver national renewal across housing, health and transport. This Government are putting better public services first. We have promised to do what these Bills set out and we will do that.

Rail Infrastructure Resilience: Storms and Floods

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Thursday 19th March 2026 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

My Lords, first, I wish the Minister a happy birthday. As we have been discussing, extreme weather is our new reality, leading to the Tarka line, which links Barnstaple to Exeter in the south-west, already being closed for 24 days this year as a result of the recent storms. Will the Government commit to increased investment to help our railways adapt to the new climate and to keep passengers moving, whatever the weather?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her good wishes. There have been quite a lot of birthdays in my life so far. The Tarka line is part of what was the Southern route around the northern edge of Dartmoor. The highest rainfall ever in the south-west of England closed the line for a long period of time simply because the bridges had to be inspected to make sure that they were safe for traffic. There was a terrible accident some 40 years ago in Wales, when a bridge collapsed due to erosion after a storm. I can reassure the noble Baroness that Network Rail is looking at some advanced sensor technology in order not to have to wait for rivers to subside sufficiently for divers to inspect the foundations of bridges. That is a fairly modest expenditure, and I think it will help the resilience of the lines to Barnstaple and Okehampton.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, what progress is being made on doing some of this resilience work outside just bank holidays and weekends? A programme was set in place by the previous chairman of Network Rail to ensure that this work is done at other times of the year. Is that still being undertaken, and what progress has been made on that front?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I think the previous chairman of Network Rail recalls one of the previous Secretaries of State telling him to do something like that—and, as an obedient public servant, that chairman went off and did it. The lines north of Exeter to which the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, referred are, rather unfortunately, closing for two weeks in just a few days’ time. They are being closed in the winter season, when use is less, although it will still be inconvenient, precisely because it is cheaper and much more efficient—and the work gets done better—to do large-scale track renewal and maintenance of drainage and other structures. That cannot be done everywhere but, where it can be done, the noble Lord is absolutely right that the railways should do more of it. The co-ordination that will come from Great British Railways will enable more of that sort of work to be done.

Public Transport: Remote Communities

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Monday 9th February 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I am surprised that the noble Baroness is not aware that the local transport funding formula does recognise rural areas. We had extensive discussions, as the noble Baroness will recognise, in the then Bus Services Bill, and, indeed, the Government, compared with previous Governments, have chosen, rightly, to fund every English transport authority in a way that was not done previously.

It is hard to see quite how bus services permeate some very remote places, but the noble Baroness will also know that there are some demand-responsive schemes—transport and others—which are eligible for subsidy. In the English devolution Bill, we are a couple of days from discussing taxi and private hire vehicles, which also form part of the transport solution in those areas.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

Will the Minister look at the role that the Community Transport Association can play? I believe that it can play a vital and important role, particularly in remote country areas, usually with small charities. In the past, the Department for Transport—I cannot remember exactly when—set up a special grant so that those charities could apply directly to get new community buses, which makes a direct impact and does a great deal of good work, particularly in remote rural areas.

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The noble Lord is absolutely right. Community transport is a very elegant way of solving some of these issues. I am glad he cannot remember when that funding was established, because I cannot either. It might even have been when the noble Lord was the Transport Secretary himself. But his point is well taken: community transport is a good answer in those circumstances, and I echo his point that it should be well regarded and we should look at it in those circumstances.

Number Plates Intended to Defeat Enforcement Cameras

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Thursday 22nd January 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

That is a very good point. The legality of number plates is checked during MoT inspection, but my understanding is that many of those who use false number plates have a proper set for the MoT or other examination and an illegal set which they then change afterwards.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, bearing in mind that the Question relates to enforcement cameras, would the Minister like to inform the House as to the reliability of those cameras, bearing in mind the recent story about Highways England failing to monitor them correctly?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I refer the noble Lord to Hansard for yesterday, when we discussed precisely that issue at Questions.

South Western Railway

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Thursday 20th November 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

Although it might be possible to agree with my noble friend, on this occasion that is not correct. The old South Western trains have been at the end of their lives for some five years. Indeed, I found when I arrived there an extraordinary plan to spend £25 million trying to resuscitate rusty trains to keep them in service because the new ones have been in the sidings for five years. That is a fault not of the rolling stock companies but of management and the previous Government.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, under the system of franchising, should a franchise fail, the Government would have the opportunity to put in an operator of last resort. Who is the operator of last resort now?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The noble Lord is familiar with that system; indeed, in his Government’s time, four franchises were already in public ownership as a consequence of that. By and large, they are doing better now than they were under the previous regime. You do not need an operator of last resort if you have management committed to a long-term future of the railway which satisfies passengers and freight.

Rail Fares

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Thursday 18th September 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The noble Baroness is right that people are very uncertain about buying tickets and do not trust that they are getting the best value. The fares system has grown like Topsy over the last 30-odd years. There are 50 million fares in the British railway system and, in order to eat the elephant, we have to do it in pieces. We are starting; nobody has previously started. The noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, once said to me that he had tried to do it as Secretary of State and the system had not allowed him to make the progress he had hoped for. We are making progress, but it will take time. Meanwhile, the Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Act has enabled train operations to come back into public ownership. The noble Baroness will know, because she met the managing director of South Western Railway, that he inherited a fleet of 90 trains, 84 of which were in sidings. Today, 21 of them are in service. I think that that is progress.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister rightly pointed to my complete failure as Secretary of State for Transport. However, will he reassure us that in the brave new world he is promising for the railways, where the Treasury will be totally onside with everything he wants to do, he will manage to see a simplified rail fare system? When people say “simplified”, what they usually want is a cheaper rail system. What does he think the chances are when he is controller of Railways UK and the Treasury is the chairman?

Passenger Standards Authority

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Tuesday 11th February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I cannot easily find that number my noble friend refers to. But it is true that, for example, the failure to resolve the wages issues with the principal trade unions led to the most prolonged national dispute in railway history and cost the taxpayer and the customers about £800 million.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

Can the Minister just remind the House—I am sure he knows the figure—what the passenger numbers were before privatisation and what they were just before the outbreak of Covid? What was the rise in passenger numbers over that time?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I am sure that if I cannot remember, the noble Lord will be able to. But he is right: roughly, the numbers doubled, and they did so because at the time of privatisation there was a huge amount of white space in the timetable. It is an acknowledged fact that the early years of privatisation in particular produced more trains and a better train service, partly because the old British Rail was starved of investment. But we are not dealing with a railway in that position now; we are dealing with a railway that does not have the numbers or the revenue it had before Covid but still has all the costs.

Airport Expansion

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Monday 3rd February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

An expansion of Heathrow will be of benefit to the entire UK, not just London and the south-east. A recent analysis suggested that over half the benefits would in fact be in the rest of the UK and not in the south-east of England.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, in welcoming the Government’s announcement that they are considering a third runway, may I ask the Minister what their attitude will be to airports outside London expanding? Does he think the expansion of Heathrow will at all put in danger the expansion of regional airports?

Shadow Great British Railways: Chair Appointment

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Tuesday 12th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

Fares on the railway are so complicated that even the people who sell them do not understand them. Some of them look absurdly expensive; some are very cheap. It is very possible to sit in a carriage where nearly everybody has paid a different fare for the same journey. The passengers wholeheartedly dislike it. One of the reasons for public ownership of the railways is to get commercial sense back into a sensible fares and ticketing system, which will attract passengers to the network.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

But, my Lords, does the Minister accept that, on some occasions, it is necessary for the Government to appoint people without a competitive process—as I did in the Minister’s case when I appointed him as the chairman of Network Rail? I expected him to be solely the success that he was and to bring a political neutrality, which we see today and which he carries well in his present role.

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

Of course, I congratulate the noble Lord on his previous appointment, which seemed to last nine years, so you might judge it successful. I think that the present appointment will be equally successful—somebody with an excellent transport background who understands the politics and economics of large conurbations and will make a real difference, improving the railway in the short term before we get the substantive Bill in the longer term.

Newly Qualified Young Drivers

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Monday 11th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend. I am afraid I am already one of those people who is subject to the more rigorous requirements; as a vocational licence holder over the age of 70, I have to have a medical every year. The current driving licence arrangements take into account the risks that an individual poses to road safety. They are designed to be fair and proportionate to all drivers who remain fit and competent to drive, regardless of age.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

Will the Government, while acknowledging that there may be a case for a graduated driving licence, also look at the issues which cause most of the accidents on our roads and perhaps look again at the penalties that are there for using the phone while driving?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for that thought, and of course he has great experience in this matter. The Government are very conscious of the principal reasons for fatalities and serious injuries, and I will certainly take away the thought that we should look further at driving while using a mobile phone, but the existing penalties for this and their enforcement are very stringent.

Railway 200

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Thursday 31st October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

The Leamside line is one of many projects—I have already had a question about the Midlands Rail Hub—that are part of the review commissioned by the Secretary of State for Transport. We need to allocate the funding we have for railways in the best possible way. The comprehensive review she has commissioned will seek to do just that.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the department’s contribution to the 200-year anniversary. Will the Minister acknowledge that we have seen massive growth on the railways over the past 20 years, with passenger journeys going up from 700 million to 1.8 billion before the Covid pandemic? What is the Government’s plan to see them continue to grow? That growth has been brought about by bringing in the private sector.

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

We all recognise the growth in passenger traffic on the railways in the past 20 years. There are many reasons for it. Sadly, post Covid, the railway has less patronage than it did and certainly less income than it did, so the Government’s proposals for a reformed railway have to address the issues on the railway as they are now, not what happened in the past.

HS2: Purchased Land

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for his supplementary question. As reported by the National Audit Office, by March 2024 £2.3 billion had been spent on phase 2 which, as he says, was cancelled by the previous Government. No property on the hastily cancelled phase 2a has yet been disposed of. The Government are carefully considering what to do. He will know as I do that railway infrastructure lasts 150 or more years, so the right thing is to have a considered long-term plan for the benefit of the economic growth, jobs and housing in this country.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, nobody knows better than the Minister the importance of capacity as far as that rail line is concerned—particularly the capacity from Handsacre to Crewe, the legislation for which has already gone through this House. Is there a time limit on that legislation, as there sometimes is on planning permissions, or does that legislation stand good for a Government who wish to concern themselves seriously with a capacity that is so vital on our railways, if we are to shift freight from road to rail?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his question, and I recognise, as he does, the capacity limitations of the west coast main line north of Handsacre. There is a time limit; I cannot offhand say what it is, but I can certainly write to the noble Lord. The Government intend to work out what to do and to say what they will do before any expiry of those powers.

HS2

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Tuesday 23rd July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

We will review the National Audit Office’s report, which is a report on the status of the project as it was left under the previous Government. We will have to do that before setting out more detailed plans. Personally, I am aware of the disparity in seats created by the present planned service pattern on HS2 following the cancellation of phase 2a. We will have more to say about that in the future.

In respect of the Barnett formula, heavy rail is reserved in Wales, so any heavy rail scheme that the department delivers should always be classified as England and Wales when applying the Barnett formula. That includes HS2. It is a different situation in Scotland and Northern Ireland. The Scottish Government and Northern Ireland Executive, under their devolved policy areas, do therefore receive Barnett-based funding. This is consistent with the funding arrangements for all other policy areas reserved in Wales but devolved in Scotland and Northern Ireland. That said, due to use of departmental comparability factors in the Barnett formula at spending reviews, the Welsh Government have received a significant uplift in their Barnett-based funding due to the UK Government’s spending on HS2.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

The Government are committed to building HS2 up to Handsacre. Is the Minister satisfied that there is sufficient capacity beyond Handsacre up to Crewe, given what the new line will deliver to the country, and will he bear this in mind in his review?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin, for his knowledge of the geography of the national railway network; I am aware of it myself. We will certainly have to bear that in mind with the review of the project as it now stands.

Mail Carriage by Rail

Debate between Lord McLoughlin and Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill

Monday 22nd July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

In congratulating and welcoming the Minister to his place—a man who will probably be giving advice to his civil servants rather than the other way around—I would like to ask him about the long-term plans for freight on the railways. What extra measures does he envisage taking, bearing in mind the serious capacity issues that have just been referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Grocott?

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I welcome the comments from the noble Lord, Lord McLoughlin. It is important that rail freight increases, but the noble Lord is correct in referring to capacity problems on some parts of the network. There are two things to do. First, historically the freight companies have a number of paths that they do not use and never have done, which are getting in the way of running more passenger trains. Secondly, in return, the Government’s emphasis on the carriage of more freight by rail demands us to look carefully at the capacity of the railway and facilitate the paths that are needed for modern freight, particularly containers and bulk aggregates, in order that traffic can increase.