Ukraine

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 13th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the unlawful and illegal invasion of Ukraine was carried out following an intention not to invade by such people as Lavrov and Putin, and it now continues with the world watching. It is good to see that allies are providing munitions, particularly precision long-distance artillery. Can the Minister—who I have to say is an excellent Minister—give the House an assurance that such critical support will continue until every Russian invader is removed from Ukraine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Lord for his kind words. On the issue of Ukraine, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, summed it up very well. We stand united with Ukraine; it is right that Ukraine leads the efforts in terms of any discussions, including those on peace. We, as an ally, partner and constructive friend, stand strong in our support on humanitarian issues, on the economy and on the military. We stand with Ukraine in every sense. I wish to record the broad range of support across your Lordships’ House —indeed, across both Houses—in support of this central and key objective.

Aiden Aslin and Shaun Pinner

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I am sure the noble Baroness will appreciate that I am not going to comment on the specifics, particularly in the sensitive situation which currently applies to the detainees. I can assure her that we are looking at all elements of their detention. It is important that those representations for their early release are made through Ukraine. That is the position of our Government, but I cannot go further than that.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree with me that the values displayed by the Russian Government in connection with this Question, and also with yesterday’s bombing at the shopping centre, display an indication that this is a conflict that we cannot allow Ukraine to lose?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord. That is why we have been absolutely at one—and I appreciate the position of Her Majesty’s Opposition in this regard—in staying strong in our position on helping Ukraine with humanitarian support, diplomatic efforts and economic reconstruction, as well as military support for the fight. This is a war Russia started. Russia should stop the war and stop it now.

Xinjiang Internment Camps: Shoot-to-Kill Policy

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 25th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first of all I pay tribute to my noble friend’s persistent focus on this particular issue. On the issue he raises about the Human Rights Council, every country that stands for election to the Human Rights Council, and is present in its 47 members, needs to demonstrate a strong human rights record domestically. There is now precedent established within the UN, but removing a particular country from a particular UN body is never easy. However, what I would say to my noble friend is that the fact that China persists and seeks to campaign for continued membership of the Human Rights Council also provides a huge opportunity—notwithstanding the fact that its human rights record is deplorable—for us to raise issues with it quite directly, and also demonstrate and showcase the consistent abuse that takes place, particularly against the Uighur community.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, these horrific matters have been raised many times in your Lordships’ House. There is clear evidence of genocide, forced organ harvesting and other human rights abuses, clearly recorded by Sir Geoffrey Nice. We did not act decisively enough when Putin seized Crimea eight years ago and went on to commit murder in Salisbury, and we saw the consequences. Could the Minister say what further action the UK will take, in conjunction with democratic partners, to call China to account, or will history simply repeat itself with the invasion of Taiwan?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are certainly working with our partners. As I am sure the noble Lord acknowledges, we have acted to hold to account senior officials and organisations who are responsible for egregious abuse of human rights within Xinjiang. That said, we keep policy constantly under review and it remains very much on the table. We will continue to work in co-ordination with our partners in that respect.

Ukraine

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 30th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with the noble Lord’s final statement. On his earlier point about the appointment of Sir Howard Morrison, of course someone of his calibre is much welcomed; he has great insight and will bring great expertise. I have received the noble Lord’s letter about arranging further meetings; I cannot guarantee Karim Khan’s schedule, but I assure the noble Lord that we are working closely with him. In the division of responsibilities, the Deputy Prime Minister and Justice Secretary is leading the engagement on how we can best support his mission, but I will certainly mention it to Karim that, next time he is planning to be in London, we should arrange an appropriate briefing.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is aware that, in any conflict, it is useful to get into the mind of your opponent. That is extremely difficult with Putin, as we know, but he has previous; he has committed crimes, not just oppressing his own people in Russia, but in this country—Alexander Litvinenko and the Salisbury poisonings. A couple of weeks ago, I had lunch with Professor Michael Borschevsky, who is a renowned student of Russia because his wife was murdered by Putin’s FSB over 20 years ago. Professor Borschevsky came to this country and now has a British passport. We had a very interesting lunch at which he produced this article, which I want to share with the House for important reasons.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

There is a question coming. The important thing is that this moved me so much that I asked him to translate it into English, so that I could share it with your Lordships at some point. This was written by Alexander Litvinenko over 20 years ago. In effect, he was signing his own death warrant. He said:

“When the whole world was chasing Bin Laden and saving itself from global terrorism, another monster, similar to Hitler, ripened by blood behind the Kremlin walls. If not stopped early, this maniac could bring civilisation to yet another world massacre in which furnace millions and millions of human lives could perish.”


That was very telling for me. In the light of the descriptions that I have outlined and that we know about, will the Minister give further assurance that he and the Government will act to make sure that war crimes are duly brought to account and the persons responsible punished?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the short answer to the noble Lord’s second question is yes. I have already indicated how we are working closely with the ICC. On the noble Lord’s earlier point about opposition within Russia, I agree with his assessment: we have seen what Mr Putin is doing with opposition in his own country, not least the horrendous treatment of Alexei Navalny and his move to a high-security prison. Obviously, our thoughts and prayers are with him and his family, but it underlines Putin’s view of opposition in his own country.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 27th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as ever, the noble and learned Baroness puts forward a practical solution. However, she will know better than me the specific issues around the legality and sensitivity of ongoing legal proceedings. For me to comment any further would not be appropriate.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, having watched this cruel saga play out over the years, it is obvious that the Iranian regime—or the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, to be more accurate—is playing mind games with a British citizen who is being used as a political pawn. Does the Minister agree that this matter must be completely divorced from any financial debt that may or may not have been incurred by different Governments of the day? If the UK Government accept liability in principle, surely the matter can now be settled amicably without either side losing face and the torture of a mother and her family can be brought to an end.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord articulates the position very clearly; we should not focus on seeking to join the two issues. We do not believe that there is any reason for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe to be detained in Iran, which is why we continue to implore the Iranians to ensure her early release and continue to campaign on that very principle.

Iran: British-Iranian Prisoners

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Monday 7th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have not seen the statement, so I will write to the noble Lord on the specifics of his question. I assure him that we continue to make the case through multilateral engagement as well as directly with Iran about the well-being and, ultimately, the early release of all hostages.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, having watched this cruel saga play out over the years, it becomes obvious that the Revolutionary Guard are playing mind games with a British citizen who is being used as a political pawn. This matter must be divorced from any procedural or historical debt that may or may not have been incurred by different Governments. If the UK accepts the debt liability in principle, surely the matter can now be settled amicably without either side losing face, and the torture of a mother and her family can be brought to an end.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, as I have already said, on the issue of the debt, we continue to explore options to resolve this case at the earliest opportunity, but that is all that I can say at this point.

Russia: Alexei Navalny

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 22nd April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, it was particularly interesting to hear the Russian Ambassador on UK media saying that Russia would do its utmost to ensure that that would not happen. On the specifics of the earlier question, I acknowledge that all the questions I get from the noble Lord, Lord Collins, are extremely good and challenging and that is the way it should be. I alluded to the fact that we have taken specific actions, including the review of tier 1. In pointing to the future, I have said that there will be specific legislation and when that is timetabled I will, of course, share that with my noble friend and your Lordships’ House.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, the mistreatment of Alexei Navalny on what appear to be trumped up charges ironically mirrors the treatment of Mr Magnitsky himself, after whom the sanctions are named, and could end with the same result. Resolute and firm action is required in conjunction with our many democratic allies throughout the world. Can the Minister confirm that such discussions are taking place and that the message is given to Russia in no uncertain terms that such behaviour has consequences?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord and assure him that such discussions are taking place. We have seen co-ordination through the OSCE, work through the G7 and today at NATO there was a statement on a related subject: the expulsions by the Czech Republic of the Russian diplomats implicated in actions there. The individuals identified by the Czech Republic are the very same ones who carried out the Salisbury attack, so there is a lot of co-ordination.

Let us not forget that it is not just the international community. We have seen protests in 100 cities across Russia. The protests continue to be suppressed. We also need to stand up for the people of Russia: they are also asking for Alexei Navalny to be released. It is about time the Russians listened not only to the international community but to their own citizens.

Human Rights Update

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 23rd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

On my noble friend’s second point, I have already acknowledged the important work that has been done in both Houses in this respect. The Government’s amendment reflects those sentiments quite specifically, and I am sure that there will be further debates in your Lordships’ House on that. In thanking my noble friend for her remarks, in terms of the next steps on building alliances, there is a major area that we need to work on, and that is the lack of condemnation of what we have seen in Xinjiang among the Muslim countries of the world—the Islamic countries. Therein lies a challenge for all of us within the existing alliance, to ensure that we strengthen our partnerships with the OIC, and other specifically bilateral ties, to ensure that we see Muslim countries speaking out against the suffering of over 1 million Muslims in China.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome the repeat of the Statement and the Government’s positive move to apply Magnitsky sanctions to principal actors, but I note that there was no reference to genocide, even though there is credible evidence of systematic repression, imprisonment, gang rape, torture, forced sterilisation and the suppression of the Uighur language and culture. Does the Minister agree that putting all this horrific treatment together surely amounts to genocide by any definition, whether it be a moral, political or legal question? Could he tell the House why the Government fail to call it out as such by name?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

On the specific definition of genocide, my response and those of other Ministers are well documented. But I recognise the description that the noble Lord gave us all of the situation in Xinjiang, and I stand by the fact that the human rights abuses that we have seen, and which he described, are why we are acting with partners today.

Hong Kong: Electoral Reforms

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 11th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already indicated, we are in constant contact with our partners, whether it is the Five Eyes partners that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred to, our colleagues within the European Union, or other allies for calling out the continuing suppression of democracy in Hong Kong. We are in very close contact with all of them. This includes action that we have taken at the UN and, specifically, working with close allies on the Human Rights Council, such as Germany and others. That will continue to be the case. However, the issue is for China to take a long, hard look at itself. It is not standing by international agreements that it has signed. It needs to reflect very carefully, because we are seeing the continuing suppression of democracy in Hong Kong, but we are working with partners to ensure that we call it out as regularly as we can.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, as the noble Lord stated, democracy is being stifled in Hong Kong. As a guarantor of the joint declaration, the UK has a legal and moral duty to stand up for the people there. China should be continuously called out for this egregious breach of international law. Does the Minister agree with me that the true patriots in Hong Kong are those who support the joint declaration, and that, surely, Magnitsky sanctions are now inevitable?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord when he rightly describes those who stand up as true patriots who stand up for freedom, democracy and the will of the people. I have already addressed the issue of sanctions; as I said, it is one of the tools available to us, and we are leaving all the tools very much on the table.

Burma: Military Coup

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Tuesday 2nd February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I congratulate the Minister on his robust response to the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Alton. This outrage is rightly condemned and the world should unite in calling it out. Is there any point in raising this assault on democracy in the Security Council, as has been said, given the lukewarm response so far from China and Russia? Listening to the reports of the overthrow of this democratically elected Government in Burma, the reason given was that the election last November was rigged. I racked my brains to remember when I had last heard this reason and, of course, I recalled that in the United States, the symbolic seat of power was attacked. Does the Minister share the thought that, facing a clear defeat, the tactic of alleging a fraudulent election comes straight from the playbook of the former President of the United States in exactly the same month of 2020?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I shall not comment on all the questions raised by the noble Lord. I agree with him, but I also believe that it is important we have a UN Security Council debate on this.

Alexei Navalny

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 21st January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, in the interest of time, I totally agree with my noble friend, and we will work closely with Germany and France in that respect.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, the Russian Federation has failed to respond to the overwhelming evidence that it poisoned the opposition leader using Novichok, for which of course it has previous form. Addressing the EU last year, Alexei Navalny said that sanctions should target the money of the oligarchs who hold Putin’s assets. This lack of adherence to a rules-based international order has gone on for too long. Does the Minister agree now that there should be direct consequences, as suggested by Mr Navalny, for this outrageous breach of all the norms of civilised states, all of which is compounded by the subsequent arrest and jailing of Mr Navalny on his return to his own country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, suffice to say that I agree with the noble Lord. I add that we have already taken quite specific actions, both through multilateral organisations such as the OPCW and specifically on issues of sanctions related directly to the Novichok poisoning of Mr Navalny. We will continue to work with partners and see what further steps we can take. As those come to bear, I will of course share them with your Lordships’ House.

China: Uighur Internment Camps

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 23rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already said, as well as raising this internationally, we are raising concerns bilaterally and directly, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has done, with the Chinese Foreign Secretary and State Councillor. We are also raising this through multilateral fora, through the third committee at the UN and the Human Rights Council. On the specific definition of genocide, the noble Baroness is aware of the Government’s position that this is something for tribunals or judicial authorities to assess.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, China has shown a callous disregard for the human rights of minority ethnic groups over a number of years. The evidence is now clearly overwhelming. Does the Minister not agree that the time is now right to instigate Magnitsky sanctions against those who perpetrate these indefensible wrongs against their own citizens? Words are clearly ineffective—this is time for decisive action.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already said, I cannot speculate on future designations, but I am pleased that we have now initiated, through my right honourable friend’s efforts, a formal procedure through the Global Human Rights Sanctions Regime, to ensure that those who abuse human rights are held to account.

Taiwan

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 17th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate is right to raise the importance of a peaceful discussion on the issue of Taiwan between people on both sides of the Taiwan Strait. I agree with him. Increasingly we have seen human rights issues where China is concerned, and I have spoken on that from the Dispatch Box. Our relationship with China is a strategic one, but that does not prevent us from calling out human rights abuses when they occur.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that any representations that the UK makes in relation to the violation of Taiwan’s airspace by the PRC exemplify the unnecessary weakening of the UK’s authority and soft power brought about by the Government’s cavalier attitude to the admitted breach of international law by their introduction of the internal market Bill, which seeks to alter the provisions of the withdrawal agreement entered into with the European Union and signed by the Prime Minister?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s latter point, I think my right honourable friend the Prime Minister clarified the intent behind the internal market Bill. On the substance of the noble Lord’s question in general, we continue to defend the rights of people around the world, including those in China, where human rights abuses occur and where there are international agreements, as we have talked about before. On the agreements between China and the United Kingdom on Hong Kong, we will continue to lobby to ensure that “one country, two systems” is sustained going forward.

China

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 22nd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point about collaboration and working with China on the issues that matter. Clearly, China has a role to play on the pandemic, as it does on climate change. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has said, this is a global pandemic that needs us all to work together for the common good.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, in considering Magnitsky sanctions against individuals of the Chinese Communist Party, will Her Majesty’s Government take into account the judgment of the China tribunal in March this year, chaired by Sir Geoffrey Nice QC, that the abhorrent forced harvesting of organs from Falun Gong prisoners has been perpetrated for years throughout China on a significant scale and that medical testing on detained Uighur prisoners could allow them to become an organ bank?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the Government have received Sir Geoffrey Nice’s report and I met him a little while ago specifically to discuss it. We will continue to review the content of such reports. What I have seen and what we have assessed reveal a very concerning and deep-rooted challenge regarding organ harvesting. We have raised this issue with the World Health Organization to ensure that it is raised with the Chinese. However, it remains as yet unconvinced that the evidence supports such action.

Global Human Rights Sanctions Regime

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 8th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the initial designations that we made, mention has been made of our trading relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, yet we did not shy away from sanctioning individuals from that country.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I too pay tribute to Bill Browder. I thank the Minister for presenting the Statement and, through him, commend the actions of the Foreign Secretary who has achieved his lengthy campaign to target laser-like those who torture, murder, disfigure and maim fellow human beings in the quest of power, corruption and cruelty. Will the Minister, who I know is committed to the same pursuit of human rights, assure the House yet again that Communist Party actors in China will be included in future additions to the list of those sanctioned? Will he also commit to applying sufficient resources to the tracing and tracking of ill-gotten assets in these cases?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s final point, it is appropriate that the governance of such a scheme has the support it requires to make it effective. While I have already made a Statement on my opinion and the Government’s view on what is happening in China and Hong Kong, it is not appropriate to speculate on future designations.

On the noble Lord’s earlier point about the role of my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has played, I know that this has been a priority for him for a long time. Indeed, it was very much cross-party in the other place when it was initiated. I pay tribute to his personal efforts and have certainly seen since his appointment as Foreign Secretary the personal priority and effort he has put behind ensuring that the promise we made in our manifesto has come to life—today it has.

Hong Kong National Security Legislation

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 2nd July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

China, Chinese culture, Chinese people and Chinese business have played an important role globally and will continue to do so. Our challenge is not with the Chinese people but with the Administration in Beijing, and we will continue to make that case very forcefully. China continues to make important contributions. We have always welcomed Chinese students to the UK, and I believe that that has been a positive thing for both countries.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for presenting the Statement. As the Chinese Communist Party breaches international law by putting an end to freedom and democracy in Hong Kong, together with its harvesting of human organs from political prisoners and the sterilising of Uighur Muslim women in China, will the Minister give a further assurance to the House of serious consequences for the leaders of the Chinese Communist Party, perhaps eventually by using the Magnitsky legislation? Does this not put the final seal on the involvement of Huawei in the development of 5G mobile technology in the UK?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we will continue on all fronts to look at the human rights situation in China with respect to the points that he has raised. I have seen directly through diplomatic engagement that China does take notice of the international statements that we make through the UN system and the concerns that we raise bilaterally, and we will continue to do so. On the Huawei issue specifically, I know that colleagues in the digital department will respond in due course, but our position has always been clear: we want to protect our networks, and appropriate security measures are in place to do just that.

Railways: East Coast Main Line

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 8th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure my noble friend has heard that loud and clear, and perhaps the ability to move your Lordships’ Chamber for a day away is a challenge that my noble friend might well take up.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, when I first came to this House 17 years ago, the franchise was held by GNER? I remember regularly dining for breakfast on Craster kippers from Northumbria. Could the Minister use his undoubted influence to bring that menu back?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I forever regard contributions from your Lordships’ House as an education in history and in rail history in particular. I shall certainly take that back and suggest to my honourable friend the Rail Minister that he puts that on his to-do list.

Roads: Drink-drive Limit

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Thursday 17th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am glad to hear that the noble Lord passed the test. I think that the important issue is that there are certain powers that have been devolved and, in that respect, the Scottish Government took a decision to lower the limit. As I have said already, we are looking at the evidence produced from the lowering of that limit but, at the current time, there are no plans to review the limit in England and Wales.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl)]

Does the Minister agree that the rollout of drug-detection devices on the roadside illustrates the amount of misuse of recreational drugs and the danger that this can bring to innocent road users, whether they be cyclists, motorists or, indeed, pedestrians?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right to point out that new drug-driving laws have been introduced. The statistics show that, in 2014, there were about 850 prosecutions. On current estimates, that will rise to about 7,000 by the end of this year. A mixture of measures have been introduced ensuring that laws have been reviewed, education has been increased and enforcement has been applied to ensure that, when someone is found to be over the drink-driving or drug-driving limit, the correct penalties are imposed.

Police Federation (Amendment) Regulations 2015

Debate between Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate and Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon

Wednesday 15th July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Perhaps the reason why there was some confusion on my part is that that is how it works now. There is no change. The noble Lord is perhaps pursuing a line that is actually currently the way it works. Perhaps I can move on, given the lateness of the hour, and answer some of the other questions. I assure him once again that if there is anything I have missed, I will seek to write to cover those points.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, also asked whether an officer could still receive benefit if they choose not to pay a subscription, and whether it was in the gift of the federation to decide whether it supports non-paying members. Prior to this arrangement, it was possible for an officer to withhold payment of their subscription, and as a result they were entitled only to a limited number of benefits, dictated entirely by the federation. It is entirely in the gift of the federation to determine what benefits it would provide to members who opt out of paying subscriptions.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, said that the PFEW is unique, in that members can access services as soon as they opt in. Yes, the PFEW is unique and police officers cannot join a union. As I said in my main contribution, the PFEW is the only organisation they can join in the rank and file and it is absolutely right that police officers, who do a unique job, have arrangements that give them access to strong representation.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked what the reference to “each new member” meant in new Regulation 4A(b). The reference is to a new member of the police force, not to a new member of the PFEW. The noble Lord asked other questions and I will seek to review the comments that have been made.

The Government of course value the incredible contribution that police officers up and down the country make and the vital role they fulfil. The relationship between the Home Office and the police remains very strong. It is a constructive relationship, and as I have said on several occasions this evening, it is the Government’s view that it is important for the Police Federation to earn the confidence of officers in order to make the best use of members’ subscriptions and represent them with transparency and integrity. The changes made by the Police Federation (Amendment) Regulations 2015 will assist in that.

The noble Lord Mackenzie asked about the recent PFEW survey and evidence that government policy is leading to low morale among officers. I assure him and all noble Lords that the Government are determined to ensure that policing remains a rewarding, professional and respected career, and our reforms are certainly seeking to achieve just that. Part of that is ensuring that the Police Federation represents its members with both integrity and transparency. I have already spoken about the Government’s strong support for our police forces.

We believe that the changes made by the Police Federation (Amendment) Regulations 2015 will assist the federation in ultimately regaining the trust of its members and indeed the public.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate]

Before the Minister sits down, will he confirm that similar provisions do not apply to the Police Superintendents’ Association, which was established at exactly the same time in 1919? Will he also confirm that the Ministry of Defence Police Federation has a specific provision in its rules that says it will not provide assistance for people who join the organisation for any incident that applied prior to joining, which is exactly the opposite of what is going to apply to the national Police Federation?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure that the noble Lord is well versed in what he has just quoted. In terms of confirming what he just said, I will write to him.