House of Lords (Hereditary Peers) Bill

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 11th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My lords, I congratulate my noble friend Lord Brady, who was so welcoming to us in his 1922 Committee meetings a few years ago. I wish the noble Baroness, Lady Quin, the very best in her well-earned retirement.

I oppose this Bill and support the right of hereditary Peers to remain in this House. I am not a hereditary Peer. However, I just attended the Hanukkah party, which a number of Peers also attended, where I bumped into the Chief Rabbi and mentioned that I was to speak in this debate. He reminded me that, as a Levi, I can trace patrilineality and lineage back some 4,000 years —so I have some skin in the game, though it did not give me any right to sit anywhere, I am afraid.

I have been looking at the history of the House and how we got to be here. The position is not as clear as I had thought. The concept of hereditary Peers can be traced to Saxon times, although Parliament did not really come into being until the 12th century. It was Henry II who first convened a court of bishops, earls and barons, and it was from 1254 that we can determine that Parliaments were held, but only to advise the monarch. Hereditary Peers as we understand them emerged in Edward I’s reign, with no right to legislate. The Lords spiritual predate the Lords temporal in that regard. It was from Henry VII’s time that hereditaries had the right to sit. We are talking about dispensing with 800 years of history.

During the civil war, the Commons determined that the House of Lords was “useless and dangerous”, but we survived its instincts to abolish us, and subsequent monarchs helped fashion us. Even in the First World War, in 1917, there was the Bryce committee, which came up with plans much more radical than those in front of us today. However, they were dismissed, because wise heads realised their limitations. Since then, we have seen lots of papers, discussions and proposals, but generally we have stayed as we are because, as the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, has explained, the current system works, and we get the work done and deliver.

My concern is that these proposals will neuter the effectiveness of our House and I hope the Minister, when she returns to her place, will consider the situation as I see it. Many life Peers are, frankly, so focused on entering this House that once they enter it, they are so satisfied with their title that they regard as the crowning of their career or their community service that they do not realise that there is work to be done. They do not want to work; they are too tired to work; they do not want to exert themselves. Hereditaries, on the other hand, already have a title, by definition. They do not have to push to get one. They do not regard a title as the end in itself—I am in danger of agreeing with the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, on this point; they push only because they want to serve. They want to be in this House to enable them to carry out duties. So we have a body of people who appreciate that being a Member of this House is to serve, to attend, to take office and to contribute.

I would far rather a Bill which excludes those who do not contribute, as many have said. I often ask Peers and friends, “If you had the choice between the title and the opportunity to work here, which would you choose?”. I know which I would choose. In many ways, the appointment of life Peers is random, not necessarily best in class. So meanwhile, let us not object to the only group of people who really are independent from anyone political when they are selected, who want to do the job properly and, if I may say so, represent a part of our very rich history and culture which defines who we are.

I want to end with something that Lord Acton—the man who pointed out that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely—said when he was talking about the transition from feudal law to the current law:

“The one thing that saved England from the fate of other countries was not her insular position, nor the independent spirit nor the magnanimity of her people … but only the consistent, uninventive, stupid fidelity to that political system which originally belonged to all the nations that traverse the ordeal of feudalism”.


By “stupid fidelity”, Acton refers to our steadfast, uncreative adherence to our political institutions and the gradual development of constitutional liberty over time, despite the complexities and imperfections in the system. He is warning us to pay attention to the importance of tradition and continuity in preserving political liberty.

Middle East

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Tuesday 29th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I hear what the noble Lord has said. We of course condemned outright the passing of this legislation, but we have not seen it implemented yet. That is why we are taking all steps to ensure that the Israeli Government know not only the United Kingdom’s position but that of all our allies. That is why the Foreign Secretary joined with others including Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Japan and the Republic of Korea to make a joint statement making this position absolutely clear. We are calling on the Israeli Government not to implement this legislation and to ensure that UNRWA can continue to fulfil its responsibilities under its UN mandate to support humanitarian assistance. We will make that known as strongly as possible.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My Lords, a number of noble Lords went on a parliamentary trip to Kerem Shalom, and we saw for ourselves the much-needed and vital aid that was not able to be delivered. The lorries were piled up on the Gaza side. Much of that aid has been stolen under the nose of UNRWA by Hamas, to be sold on the black market thereafter. Does the Minister agree with me that UNRWA is responsible for less than 13% of all aid in Gaza? As the noble Lord, Lord Clarke, has indicated, there are other routes for delivery. UNRWA is not fit for purpose. The Hamas leaders Fatah Sharif Abu Al-Amin, who was killed in Lebanon, and Mohammad Abu Itiwi, who was also killed, were both members of UNRWA, which UNRWA recognised.

On a positive note, I agree with the Minister’s last statement about our mutual desire for peace in the region. In that respect, what are the Government doing to facilitate a new civil government in Gaza? That is the only way forward for the area.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

This Government, like the previous Government, are taking a consistent approach to UNRWA. It is an essential body that can deliver aid into Gaza, and we have released £21 million to do just that. Failure to ensure that UNRWA can continue its work will lead only to greater harm and damage to civilians, so we are absolutely committed.

In terms of the future, the important thing to remember, which we have all stressed, is that the future of the Palestinians and of the Occupied Territories is a matter for the Palestinians to sort out. We will, of course, give every possible support to the authorities, particularly the Palestinian Authority, to ensure that there is a sustainable future for the eventual Palestinian state under a two-state solution.

Israel and Gaza

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Monday 23rd October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness makes three challenging contributions. It is not the case that every part of aid offered and sent is used for the purposes it ought to be. That cannot be the case, sadly, in what is effectively a terrorist-controlled entity. What we can do, working with the agencies and the UN, using them as conduits, is to ensure that as much as possible goes to the support of the people. I gave some figures in response to the noble Lord, Lord Hannay. The fact that some aid has in the past been stolen and misapplied, and may be in the future, surely does not absolve us of the moral duty to seek to assist those in danger and those who are in need.

On the noble Baroness’s second point on the security of Israel, it is obvious that there can be no diplomatic two-state solution while Israel feels that it does not have the basic security of the right to survive that any people and nation have.

Thirdly, having not strayed into trying to direct broadcasters, I will not try to direct universities. However, all in authority need to have a care that their campuses are not misused or penetrated by malign organisations. Every student, in that glorious nobility of youth, should realise that treating others with respect is one of the most wonderful aspects of the human condition. If the story that the noble Baroness told is true, it is appalling and I hope that it is not replicated elsewhere.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend of how much the Jewish community appreciates the words of the Prime Minister, the leader of the Opposition and other Members of Parliament today. We have appreciated the messages of support we have received from not just non-Jewish but Muslim members of the public, and not just non-Jewish but Muslim Members of this House, who reached out to us. In this country, dialogue exists between moderate Jewish and Muslim people, and that is to be encouraged and welcomed.

The Prime Minister specifically said:

“let me be clear: there is no scenario where Hamas can be allowed to control Gaza or any part of the Palestinian territories”.

As the noble Lord, Lord Newby, predicted—correctly, I am sure—there will almost certainly be a ground invasion of Gaza. Innocent lives will almost certainly be lost, and conscript soldiers will be injured and killed. Does my noble friend agree that it is now up to all of us to prepare the ground for what is ahead? We have to explain why electricity and, in particular, fuel are being withheld, and why every inch of aid, while it must be supplied, has to be examined when it goes through the crossing to ensure that what is in those lorries is not capable of being misused. We have to explain why a ceasefire is not possible at this time. An enormous task is ahead of us, and it is all very well to say these fine words now, but we will repeat them time and again over the next few weeks.

[Lord True (Con)]

I agree with a great deal that my noble friend said, and I echo his words about the support that has come from all communities and across parties. There will be difficult and sad times, and Israel has the right to defend itself. We need to cherish not only the Jewish community but the Muslim community, because I believe that so many Muslims—my daughter-in-law is one—will recoil with horror and outrage at the thought of people crying “God is great” while they are butchering babies.

University of Bristol: Jewish Students

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Wednesday 24th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

The noble Lord is right to say that providers have a duty of care to students, which the Government expect them to take very seriously. All registered higher education providers, including the University of Bristol, are subject to ongoing conditions of registration with the Office for Students, which is responsible for ensuring compliance with them. In addition, students can notify the Office for Students of any issues that they think may be of regulatory interest to it, and the OfS has provided a guide for students to support them in that process.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con) [V]]

In a Written Answer to my noble friend Lord Austin last week, my noble friend the Minister said:

“All higher education providers should discharge their responsibilities fully and have robust policies and procedures in place to comply with the law”.


So will he or the Universities Minister now write to universities who employ the academics who signed a letter of support for Professor Miller of Bristol University, asking them what action they are taking in respect of those academics, who appear to be supporting Professor Miller’s anti-Semitism, as defined by the aforementioned IHRA?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

Universities and other providers are independent institutions, responsible for their own staffing decisions and for meeting their duties under the law, regarding both freedom of expression and equality. However, the Government have been clear that we expect universities to be at the forefront of tackling anti-Semitism and ensuring that they provide a welcoming experience for all students. That is why my right honourable friend the Education Secretary wrote to providers, encouraging them to adopt the IHRA definition, as a result of which, I am pleased to say, more than 50 additional institutions have done so.

Financial Services Bill

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 8th March 2021 Grand Committee

In October, the Treasury correctly stated that it was not possible to fully enable cashback without a purchase because of barriers from the European Union, not least the PSD. Well, that barrier has now gone. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that it would be a real boost for individuals, businesses and communities if cashback without a purchase could be enabled—for all those individuals who need, rely on and trust cash, and all those businesses that could have an additional strand by being able to offer this service? It may well be the case that cash is no longer king. It is certainly very much the case that cash still has currency. Does my noble friend agree—and does he agree that this amendment needs serious consideration between now and Report?

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I shall speak on Amendment 135 in my name, although I find myself in agreement, as is so frequently the case, with the noble Lords, Lord Tunnicliffe and Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, on their amendments, and, of course, with my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond, who very kindly served as my warm-up act for my amendment. With such unanimity, let me explain what this is about.

At Second Reading, the Minister might have read that I raised two issues of concern. The first was that FOS and the FCA had been overzealous and overreached themselves. As a result, they had destroyed a segment of the financial services industry, namely the SIPP industry. I was disappointed that there did not seem to be anything in this Bill dealing with that, but I am pleased to say that I have had constructive meetings with the City Minister, John Glen, and representatives of the FCA and FOS and there are further meetings ahead. I accept that this matter will not be in this Bill, but perhaps it will be dealt with at a later stage elsewhere.

The second matter that I raised was about a situation in which FOS and the FCA were not doing enough to protect consumer interests, and I had an idea that might enable them so to do. As the Minister here today was not at Second Reading, I will just remind him of the reason why I have raised this. In the summer, I received a letter in the post with a credit card in my name, which was very nice except that I had not applied for it. It arrived unsolicited. I did not think too much of it, but a few days later—in those halcyon days of last summer when one could go outdoors and talk to one’s neighbours—a neighbour mentioned to me that they had seen some slightly unsavoury-looking individual rummaging through my letterbox at the front gate. I managed to put two and two together and worked out what had happened. Someone had found my home address and date of birth—which is not difficult, I am sorry to say, because they are available at Companies House; I have since changed that, but it is generally true. Then clearly he applied for a credit card in my name and was rummaging around in the letterbox to find it and to find the PIN, which followed in the post a few days later. It was clearly an unsatisfactory situation.

I contacted people in the company concerned, which I shall not name on this occasion, and complained that it was odd that they had sent me a credit card that I had not requested. I invited them to explain why and perhaps to change their procedures. They replied that they were sorry to hear it, but as I had not lost any money, there was nothing that they could do, or chose to do. Eventually, after a few letters and emails, they sent me a form to use to complain to FOS. I could not resist, of course, so I put a complaint into FOS—and it took FOS six months to reply to the complaint. After six months, a very well-crafted letter arrived from FOS, explaining to me that it could not help me because I was not actually a customer of the credit card company concerned. I was a potential customer of the credit card company concerned, and under the FCA handbook—the FCA instructs FOS—it has no power to deal with situations in respect of potential customers.

There were audible gasps of horror at Second Reading when I explained the situation, and my noble friend Lord Agnew agreed to write to me because he, too, was surprised. He wrote to me on 9 February and said:

“As you set out in your speech, the FCA is responsible for setting the rules for what complaints the FOS are able to consider. These rules do not allow FOS to consider a complaint from someone who is not a customer or potential customer of a firm. Extending eligibility to make a complaint to the FOS about a firm that they are not a customer or a potential customer of would be a very significant expansion of the FOS’s remit, which could result in delays to other complaints being resolved. However, the FOS are able to consider complaints from people who are being pursued for a debt that is not theirs following an identity theft. Therefore, had the attempted identity theft you experienced resulted in losses, then the FOS would have been able to consider a complaint from you.”

Brexit: Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Thursday 6th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My Lords, as many of your Lordships might be aware, I voted for Brexit in 2016. I did so despite all my family and pretty much all my business colleagues and my colleagues at Conservative central headquarters voting remain. I am normally pretty loyal to our party’s leadership, most of whom at that time were very close friends, but I could not vote remain in 2016 out of long-held views and convictions primarily relating to sovereignty and a belief that this country is better off as a truly independent state.

It was not a happy time. Referendums pose a challenge to representative democracies: how does a simple yes-or-no question, such as whether to remain in the EU, survive contact with the reality of negotiation, legislation and practical implementation? It is more challenging still when the result was as narrow as the Brexit vote, the result of which must be respected, as must the narrowness of the win.

I believe that the answer to reconciling this web of contradictions is the Brexit deal that we now have in front of us from the Prime Minister. As someone in business who daily advises a range of UK-based businesses, I believe the Prime Minister’s deal to be an acceptable result, born of trying to take a general mandate through these complexities. It delivers Brexit: the UK will no longer be a member of the EU. Nor can it be said to be Brexit in name only, as some critics claim. We will get control of our borders and our laws, and will stop paying anything like the amounts we have been paying into the EU budget, so the promises made to the electorate will be honoured.

So why does this deal seem to attract so little support among all parliamentarians? For those remainers who say that this is just a worse version of the status quo, I simply remind them that the status quo is not available. The British people voted to leave, and leave we will. The worst thing the UK could do is to reject the referendum result and force people to vote again. Have your Lordships forgotten the trauma we went through as a country in 2016? I certainly have not. It is exactly this patronising philosophy that voters do not know what is best for them which now sees the EU itself battling a crisis of democracy and legitimacy. We may well see the consequences of this attitude in the 2019 European elections.

While of course I do not want a no deal, it must be foolish to close this off right now, as we dramatically reduce our negotiating leverage if the EU sees that we are not prepared to go down that route as a last resort. I urge the Opposition Front Bench and some well-meaning but misguided friends in my own party, on the Cross Benches and in other parties, not to tie our hands behind our back. Only a few days ago a number of us were debating the Financial Services (Implementation of Legislation) Bill in this Chamber precisely because we need our negotiators to have in our armoury the option of being prepared for no deal, which I repeat is not by any means ideal or preferred by me.

For those who argue that Theresa May’s deal fails to realise the full potential and opportunity of Brexit, I say that while this may be true in the immediate term, the benefits will still come. Hard-line leavers seem to prefer the sequence of chaos and uncertainty followed by opportunity. I fear that too many people just cannot afford that short-term loss. This deal delivers certainty and stability followed then by the opportunity we all seek. The future Brexit opportunity is still open for us to seize, but without this deal manufacturers employing hundreds of thousands of people will immediately take steps to move out of the UK. I know this because I have talked to them directly.

Sceptics will still say that this locks us into an EU-like agreement forever, but it quite clearly does not. It is in neither side’s interest that the withdrawal agreement become a permanent arrangement. That is why the much-quoted phrase that the EU and the UK have a binding obligation to use their “best endeavours” to agree a future arrangement that supersedes the backstop should find favour with both cynics and the faithful. Far from being the worst of both worlds, I argue that it is the opposite. This deal provides stability and certainty now, which answers the stock economic argument of remainers, and gives a credible promise of Brexit dividends on trade still to come, as they will according to the stock arguments of leavers.

A referendum would lead to more chaos, and those advocating that we stay in will have to clarify what will happen to the rebate, to the offer to Cameron on immigration concessions, to the EU army and to myriad issues which would be totally unacceptable to 17 million people.

The sadness right now is that this deal is so close to being acceptable by so many more people. It is beyond me to understand why the EU does not make some small but important offers of change at this 11th hour to avoid a backstop that nobody wants. This would seal the deal. The fact that it cannot or will not do so reinforces the fears of many that, sadly, it is not going to be a good long-term partner for us.

However, we have to recognise the current situation and that translating plebiscites into practical policy is always a matter of compromise. That is what this deal is, and that is why I support the Motion.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 31st January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

My Lords, it is a privilege to speak in what has been described as a historic debate on a technical Bill. In the time I have, I will constrain myself to addressing just a few points.

The first concerns the referendum vote. I noted with interest the passage of the Bill in the other place and the remarks by the shadow Brexit Secretary, repeating demands for a meaningful vote on the Brexit deal. I simply draw attention to the meaningful vote we had already in June 2016. It is now the job of Parliament to scrutinise, not to oppose this necessary legislation. Whether one voted to leave or remain, reconciling the result with a position that leaves the UK not in control of its borders, courts and fiscal contributions to the EU would feel very jarring. This applies as much to Parliament seeking to thwart Brexit by voting down the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill, as it does to those siren voices now calling for a second referendum. As my noble friend Lord Astor said, the people have spoken and it is the job of this House and the other place to make it work as smoothly as possible. If the shadow Brexit Secretary wishes to continue his search for meaning, then he should look no further than improving this Bill.



I commend some of what the chairman of the Brexit committee has to say, particularly as he reminds us that this legislation is necessary. We must pay heed to the Constitution Committee, which describes the Bill as deeply flawed. We must seek to improve it to the committee’s satisfaction where we can.



As this is a technical Bill, I offer some technical observations. In the other place, MPs raised the uncomfortable question of pre-exit disputes, many of which arose several years ago and which may now not go to the ECJ. In my opinion, they clearly ought to, as they arose under the old regime. The Francovich principle, which has been raised in this House before, has been removed from the Bill. I hope my noble friend the Minister will reconsider this. I am aware of instances where it would lead to a very unfair result and deprive genuine claimants of going to the EU court. I am happy to brief the Minister on this if required.

I turn to a particular area of interest of mine—financial services. In the other place much of the debate was about the use, or overuse, of delegated powers—the so-called Henry VIII clause. I must take issue with much of what was said. Lamenting the use of delegated powers is a common tool in all opposition toolboxes. When they have run out of points of principle, they resort to points of process. Leaving that aside, much of the criticism was largely fallacious. As the EU committee set out, in financial services in particular, EU laws follow the Lamfalussy framework. Reading the debate in the other place, it is almost as if many want even the lowest level of content included in UK primary legislation. Yet, as the Investment Association has pointed out, in financial services, at least, much of EU law is better handled here by the regulator, not to circumvent democracy but for reasons of efficacy and practicality. It is simply about appropriate levels of detail. As the renowned EU legal expert Simon Gleeson pointed out to the EU Committee,

“the Bill will perpetuate one of the main defects of the current EU position, namely that too much detail is in legislation and is difficult to update”.

There may well be much to be improved in this Bill, but cramming it full of regulatory issues better handled in secondary legislation and regulatory guidance and enforcement should not be part of that process.

I add my voice to those who have warned against a second referendum. I appreciate that its advocates are saying “not now” but they are pushing us down a very dangerous road. If the EU detected that there would be a second referendum, can your Lordships imagine its negotiating position? It would make an agreement that much harder. Is that the agenda of those calling for a second referendum? I hope not, and that those who might be talking down our negotiating position recognise that. There is no real prospect of holding a referendum without causing huge anguish and pain all over again between friends, parties and even families up and down the country in what would inevitably be a difficult campaign full of bias and hate. As Brenda of Bristol famously said: “What? Not another one!”.

Careers Education

Lord Leigh of Hurley Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

The committee that the noble Baroness chaired on social mobility was incredibly important. It covered a topic close to my heart and to that of all noble Lords in this House in ensuring that people from all backgrounds have the opportunity to fulfil their potential and have great awareness and understanding of the various routes available to them in achieving their potential. That is why we as a Government are doing so much to try to improve the careers guidance, not just in schools but, as the noble Baroness says, to strengthen the dialogue and connection between schools and local employment and businesses in school areas.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

Could my noble friend tell the House what role she sees for employers in inspiring young people in careers? I declare an interest as an employer.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

Employers should play a big part in inspiring young people and see that as an important part of their responsibility. That is why we have invested so much in creating opportunities for apprenticeships and how we want to see employers playing their part not just in providing those apprenticeships but in making sure that, in schools, students and pupils understand what is needed for them to be successful in the world of work.