Cyber Security and Resilience (Network and Information Systems) Bill

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 3rd September 2026 Grand Committee

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, having exchanged some gestures with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, I think it is me next. I am pleased to support this amendment, which I have cosigned, and I very much agree with everything that the noble Lord, Lord Markham, said.

My remarks will principally have China in mind. China is not the only repressive regime, of course, but certain examples come to mind. Take, for example, the political prisoners in Hong Kong, such as Jimmy Lai and Joshua Wong, who was in the news recently when he was outrageously imprisoned, on so-called national security grounds, for democratic expression and protest. There are many other such examples, of course. There are also concerns about electroshock weapons being demonstrated inside the Chinese embassy here, and we recently saw a considerable eight-year sentence under our National Security Act for the manager of the Hong Kong Economic and Trade Office in the UK because of attempts at repression in the UK. So there are problems of justice—or, rather, injustice—in Hong Kong and China, but the tentacles of repression are very much reaching into this country, particularly for the Hong Kong diaspora.

We have seen other examples, such as Interpol red notices being misused, so there is a great concern that requests for digital information sharing that have a nefarious purpose could be made by authoritarian states under the Bill. We have had examples in Hong Kong of residential surveillance and holding individuals incommunicado for up to six months, without access to a lawyer or family, which amount to enforced disappearance and increase the risk of torture. We have the lack of judicial independence, as the noble Lord, Lord Markham, mentioned, which explicitly prevents a fair trial, particularly in so-called national security cases. The treatment of imprisoned activists undermines any semblance of a fair trial. There are concerns about the admission of evidence obtained through torture in Chinese courts, which includes Hong Kong. The situation in prisons is intolerable. I understand that Jimmy Lai is being held in conditions where he is practically boiling in the heat of his cell. Anyway, this gives the Committee an illustration of everything that I think noble Lords are already aware of.

I understand that, under the Extradition Act, co-operation between the UK and Hong Kong authorities is permitted on a case-by-case ad hoc basis; if that is incorrect, I would accept correction. But if, under the Bill, NIS data—including sensitive information such as IP addresses, digital fingerprints and user-level logs from digital service providers—could increase the risk of extradition to a country without a bilateral treaty with the UK then that could trigger special extradition arrangements, bypassing traditional human rights safeguards. We are on a slightly uncertain basis of extradition to Hong Kong, into which the Bill could add another element, so there are no permanent safeguards against extradition to Hong Kong and this data sharing could serve as an intelligence-gathering tool, which facilitates that process by providing the evidence which then justifies the filing of an ad hoc extradition request. So we could increase the likelihood of an ad hoc extradition request, which would make it more difficult for the British authorities.

Of course, we all know that many of the diaspora in the UK are living in fear of their lives—not just fear for their safety but for their lives, with bounties on their heads. We are also aware of all the cyber attacks that we understand are being launched from a Chinese direction. This NIS data could help to identify the architecture of the UK’s critical systems and choke points. It could also assist with the harassment of dissidents and human rights defenders living in the UK.

For all these reasons, I very much support the amendment. As the noble Lord, Lord Markham, said, if the Government believe that there are institutional drafting problems then it is incumbent on them—if they agree with us that there is a danger in this zone of sharing data with a repressive regime, and I cannot see how they would not—to come up with something which fits the existing parameters but prevents opening the door to assisting repression. That would certainly be against any values in this country.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I will briefly follow the noble Lord, Lord Markham, and the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, in supporting this amendment. The noble Lord, Lord Alton, who is the architect of the amendment—indeed, of many amendments relating to China and human rights—unfortunately cannot be here, but both the noble Lord, Lord Markham, and the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, explained eloquently why this is important, particularly the focus on China.

Over the years, British Governments of all colours have had a very ambiguous policy towards China. On the one hand, in terms of trade and the economy, it is crucial. On the other, we have to admit that Chinese repression and China’s appalling human rights record mean that the Government need to tread very carefully in their relationships with China.

My interest in this came from the problems, particularly in Xinjiang province, with enforced organ harvesting of dissidents and followers of Falun Gong. When we say “forced organ harvesting”, we essentially mean that prisoners are killed so that their organs may be taken and sold, in essence, on an international market. China makes billions of pounds from this appalling practice.

Over the years, the noble Lord, Lord Alton, has chipped away, legislatively, at a number of pieces of legislation to, in essence, preclude British companies from supplying China with goods, medicines or chemicals that could then possibly be used for organ harvesting. There are a number of pieces of legislation where this happens. Obviously, this Bill is different, but I note the argument that the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and the noble Lord, Lord Markham, made about why we should have special provisions for fair trials and the release of information to authoritarian countries.

I fully take the point from the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, who, like the noble Lord, Lord Markham, referred back to the debates in the other place and the difficulty of drafting. I hope that the Government might be prepared to talk, particularly to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, about whether we can find a way forward here.

Draft Statutory Guidance on the Meaning of “Significant Influence or Control”

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd December 2025 Lords Chamber

My third point is that the wish of the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, to see clarity, precision and predictability greater than is offered by this guidance is wholly admirable, but it is, with great respect, completely unrealistic. I always admire the skill and effort of the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, but I have to say that on this occasion he is quite clearly offside.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I am also in football paradise because my club, Birmingham City, after 30 years actually has very decent owners. Seeing the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, reminds me that Birmingham beat Arsenal in the League Cup in 2011, as he may well recall.

The noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, has raised an important issue, essentially about definitions, but I just want to ask him: why a fatal Motion? Only a handful of fatal Motions have ever been passed by your Lordships’ House. I listened very carefully and I do not think he gave one justification for a fatal Motion. I do not know whether he is allowed to come in again, but it would be helpful to this debate to know what on earth this is about.

[Baroness Debbonaire (Lab)]

My Lords, I will speak very briefly. My interest in this matter is in the Football Governance Act itself, and less in football. I have no football club interest whatever to declare. I just want to ask: what is the noble Lord trying to achieve here? There are all sorts of people in both Houses who seem terribly keen on stopping the football regulator getting on with what they are supposed to be getting on with. This Bill originated in the Tory party prior to the general election, and it was picked up willingly by the Labour Party while we were in opposition. I was the leader of that team at the time: I pushed for it to be in our manifesto and I am absolutely delighted that it is there. There is an excellent chair of the regulator in David Kogan, who has the respect of all sides of football and is uniquely well qualified in his knowledge of both broadcasting and football. All we need here is for the regulator to be allowed to get on with the job. It is my understanding that it is doing so at great speed, in the interests of football clubs.

The noble Lord refers to specifics. Surely, he wants those football clubs to survive and thrive. That is what this regulator is about and what this party wants to see: is the game of football surviving and thriving up and down all quarters and parts of the country? That is what the football regulator was set up to ensure and I really hope that the noble Lord is not trying to stand in the way of progress.

Broadband: Social Tariffs

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Tuesday 31st January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

As I have said, the industry is responding, with a number of operators providing low-cost social tariffs for people who want them. We think that a voluntary, market-led approach is the quickest way to provide fast internet connection to everybody, and we are very grateful for the industry’s co-operation.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, can the Minister come back to the question raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Altmann? It appears that some government departments will accept payments only if they are made online, thereby excluding millions of people from engagement. What are the Government going to do to be more inclusive?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, I will discuss that with colleagues in other departments who are responsible for that particular aspect.

Youth Sport Trust Report

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Tuesday 11th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that during the Covid pandemic, it is estimated that over 200 swimming pools were closed, never to reopen? Given the impact on young people’s ability to swim, can he assure me that in the latest round of cuts that the Treasury is insisting that Whitehall embark upon to enable the ludicrous mini-Budget to develop he will protect children’s sports facilities?

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My department is having a number of conversations, particularly on the issue that the noble Lord raises, but also on understanding the challenges of rising energy prices and those that the sector faces. In September, the Government announced an energy bill relief scheme offering support, and during the pandemic the Government prioritised physical activity, providing £1 billion of financial support to sport and leisure. We will continue to review that to make sure that we are targeting that support as effectively as possible.

English Football: Independent Regulator

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Monday 25th April 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I cannot speak for the Lords spiritual, but I know that their prayers will be ecumenically directed. The noble Lord makes an important point. As with the application of the review to other sports, there are lessons to be learned for football internationally and elsewhere in the United Kingdom. We are discussing this with individual teams and with sports bodies.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that one of the problems with the Football League is that it never seems to have enough resources to conduct a proper fitness test on prospective owners and directors of football clubs? I realise that the Statement is yet to come. Is this issue being taken seriously enough to ensure that the regulator will have sufficient resources to do an effective job?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

As I said, the current tests for owners and directors do not go far enough in assessing the suitability for ownership of clubs. My honourable friend will set out more detail, following the recommendations made in Tracey Crouch’s fan-led review. I hope that the noble Lord will forgive me if I do not anticipate what he will say.

Loneliness Strategy

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I am very mindful that my right honourable friend the Chancellor has, in another place, been setting out the Spring Statement, the details of which I have not yet had a chance to acquaint myself with. From what I have seen, I know he is addressing the pressures on public finances and household budgets, including the point made by the right reverend Prelate.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I wish to follow up the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, on people with ME, and to include other long-term conditions. Does the Minister think it possible to give guidance to the new integrated care systems in the health service to develop a local strategy to deal specifically with the issue of loneliness for people with long-term conditions?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

Local councils, local health systems and voluntary and community sector organisations all have important roles to play in tackling loneliness. I will follow up the point made by the noble Lord, as I will the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, in relation to health.

Football Governance

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I advise the noble Lord to await the Government’s response to the fan-led review, in which we will deal with all its recommendations.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, will the noble Lord come back to ground ownership and the problems that have occurred when grounds have been sold off? The review recommended a golden share to be held by a community benefit society—in other words, supporters of the club—to have a veto, essentially, over such ground share sales in the future. Are the Government sympathetic to that?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I am afraid I cannot anticipate all the areas of the review to which we must respond, but I repeat that football has clearly proven unable in the past to reform itself and deliver the changes needed. It is clear that current oversight of the game is not up to solving the structural challenges and that action must be taken. That is why we welcome the review and will respond to it in detail.

Racism in English Cricket

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

Like my noble friend, I was impressed by the summary given by the noble Lord, Lord Patel of Bradford, of the work that he has undertaken since he became the chairman of Yorkshire County Cricket Club nine weeks ago. He outlined the many actions that are being taken, and I agree that these will have a wider application for other cricket clubs and other sports.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, has the Minister seen the reports that many county cricket clubs charge huge amounts of money for young players who have been identified as having particular skills to go into training programmes? He will know that there is a concern at the higher reaches of cricket that there is a dominance by pupils from public schools. Does he not think that the ECB needs to take action to make sure that these training programmes are open to everyone?

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, is right: there are many barriers which hold people back, and the Government are working with Sport England and other agencies to dismantle those barriers and make sure that everybody has the opportunity to participate in sport, whoever they are and wherever they come from. There is obviously work for the ECB to do, and lessons are being learnt in Yorkshire at the moment, but the noble Lord is right that these barriers go beyond matters of race.

Sport: Transgender Inclusion

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Tuesday 9th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

I strongly agree with the noble Lord and I am pleased to say that the sports councils’ work has followed that approach. The intention of their guidance is to encourage sports to think in innovative ways to ensure that nobody is left out. I am mindful that these exchanges will be followed by many people affected on a personal level, so I want everyone to hear very clearly that we want everybody to have every opportunity to enjoy, compete in and excel in sport.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, does not that mean that we should ensure that there is a way to have full, open and tolerant debate; and that those organisations that proselytise a “no debate” concept and accuse people who raise legitimate issues of being transphobic should desist? The Minister cannot instruct sports organisations what to do; he can encourage them to have courage to take on board what is in this guidance.

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

Again, I agree with the noble Lord about the importance of tolerant debate, such as we have in your Lordships’ House. As the sports councils say in their guidance:

“We hope to see sports bodies across the UK engaging in the conversation in a respectful way and develop policies in this area which help facilitate access for everyone to participate.”


A number of governing bodies have already said what they will do in the light of it, and we encourage others to look at it as well.

Choirs: Restrictions

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Wednesday 30th June 2021 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to review the guidance restricting the performance of indoor amateur choirs to no more than six people.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, I know that the restrictions on singing are frustrating to large numbers of amateur choirs and performance groups across the country. Following the move to step 3 of the road map on 17 May, non-professional groups of up to six people can now sing indoors, while multiple groups of 30 can sing outdoors. We will continue to keep guidance and restrictions under review. Further details of step 4 will be set out as soon as possible.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a supporter patron of the City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, which has more than 400 adults in its various amateur choirs. I can see no specific evidence to support the restriction on choirs. Indoor choirs are limited to six people, whereas last night at Wembley 40,000 people were singing, and the night before at Wimbledon the court was covered and people were cheering to the rafters. That apparently is allowed but indoor choirs, which can exercise proper social distancing, are not allowed. This is nonsense. The Government should reverse it immediately.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am sure the noble Lord is aware that the events to which he refers are part of the events research programme, and particular public health measures are taken for all those attending. The evidence is clear that, sadly, singing increases the risks of transmission. Hence, we have the guidance we have been given.