Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [HL]

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 11th December 2024 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Holmes of Richmond]

52: After Clause 2, insert the following new Clause—
“Review of product regulations and supply chains(1) On the day on which this Act is passed, the Secretary of State must initiate a review of all product regulations and standards as they pertain to supply chains.(2) The review must assess how product regulations align with the principles of traceability, transparency and trust.(3) The review must recommend a new supply chain standard to take into account factors including the supply chain of a product’s—(a) environmental impact;(b) transparency and traceability, in real time, of products, financial, trade and legal documents.”

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to take part in today’s Committee proceedings on the Bill. In doing so, I declare my interests as set out in the register, not least my technology interests; in particular, I have advised and socially recruited for an AI business.

In moving Amendment 52, I shall speak also to Amendments 53 and 79 in my name. These may seem disparate and interestingly grouped together, but they have three things largely in common. There are three of them, I wrote them all and, most importantly, they are all underpinned by the potential of having a golden thread of inclusion and innovation running right though them.

On Amendment 52, I am looking for the Government to consider a metrology standard around supply chains, which are notoriously opaque. If you try to go beyond even one step back in any supply chain, things start to get a bit fuzzy. As a result of the technologies now available to us, however, there is the potential to unite in real time physical goods, legal documentation, financial documentation and all customs documents. More than that, there is the potential to link all the environmental factors, not just of that supply chain but of the goods and services involved in it, right from the point when they were brought into being. This is another example of the extraordinary power of the new technologies and what the data that underpins them can bring in driving economic as well as social benefits, while under- pinning environmental benefits as a consequence. What is the Government’s position on how we could look at developing such a standard for the supply chain, which would be beneficial not just in each specific supply chain—for all those businesses and entities involved—but right across our society and economy?

Amendment 53 looks at large language models—the foundational models that have had so much publicity and focus, not least in the last two years. As with Amendment 52, I suggest the development of a standard around LLMs and consider the achievement of that standard to enable access to the UK market and economy. Again, that would be beneficial to consumer and citizen, and social, economic and, yes, environmental benefits could all flow from it. It is important to consider not only the economic and environmental costs of developing those foundational models but their usage, every time somebody asks one of these models—we all know their names—a query about those costs. All that would be worth considering in the development of a standard. On the specifics of some of the data used in the development and training of those models, we should look at the IP and copyright issues and consider the legislation and whether the LLMs would fall into the category of an article for the purposes of the copyright Act.

I should be interested in the Minister’s view on the specifics within that amendment and the benefit that could be gained from the development and work—even if a standard was not the final output—to be done around these models, and the levels of understanding and public awareness that could flow from such a piece of work.

Amendment 79 suggests the development of a standard: inclusive by design, or IBD. Be one young, old, a disabled person, or somebody from any socio- economic group, geography or city, putting IBD in a product benefits everybody by the very nature of that inclusion. There are two parts to this. First, all new products should be developed and deployed as inclusive by design. That should be self-evident and relatively straightforward to bring about. Secondly, and perhaps as important, largely because it is less discussed, there is what happens when a product has previously been inclusive and accessible but then, as a result of a change, an update or a new product rollout, becomes inaccessible and exclusionary.

It is probably best to draw this out through example. Consider the card readers that we all use to pay for goods. For many years, they were inclusive to me as a blind person and to all members of society, not least through the simplest elements of raised keys and a dot on the “5” key. I would know exactly where that was and I, inclusively and independently, could put my PIN into the card machine. Then we saw the rollout of completely flat-screen card payment machines. They are not inclusive or accessible, and of no use to me and millions of people up and down the country who, prior to that product rollout, could have inclusively, independently and—crucially in this context—secretly made their payments. What option is there now, if presented with a flat screen machine? Should one whisper, sotto voce, “4982”? That is not my PIN number. Even if it were, the paucity of funds in the account renders it worthless for noble Lords to remember. Or should I give my card to a friend or ask the person in the store to make the payment under those terms?

None of that is inclusive, independent, secret or in any sense dignified for a citizen in 21st century Britain. Amendment 79 is all about looking into the development of a standard, inclusive by design. Imagine what we could do right across our society and economy. Think about the debate, discourse and discussion, and the positive input that the development of this standard could have across this country, and then connecting right around the world. Such a positive piece of work could drive benefits, business, economic opportunities and social inclusion. It would be good for citizens, business, innovators, investment and our country.

I look forward to the Minister’s response. I hope it will be seen as a positive piece of work that could easily be picked up and rolled out by the Government. I very much look forward to the debate. I beg to move.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, I always like the opportunity to hear my noble friend Lord Holmes because his amendments mostly very much appeal to me. Today’s Amendment 79, to which he has just spoken so eloquently, certainly appeals to me, and I just wanted to add a few words.

I am responsible, for my sins, for the Parking Act 1989, which I am sure noble Lords will spend a lot of time reviewing and considering. The nature of that Act was for the first time to allow parking to take place in this country in a way that did not exclusively require the use of cash. We were slightly ahead of the game at the time, because I think we had only Barclaycards and not telephone exchanges that you could ring into to park your car. All these things have come about because of that simple Act.

I share the frustrations of my noble friend Lord Holmes when we look at how so many things nowadays are developments of such initiatives but without taking into account the great importance of trying to be as broad as possible in their appeal and use. A good example of that was given by my noble friend. There are many machines—I know he has expressed his frustration before about cash machines—and other products, in the general sense, that cannot be accessed by people with disabilities, or where there is insufficient explanation of how they can be implemented. I very much support his ideas about inclusive by design and see no reason why, in the 21st century, we cannot be more enlightened about this. It seems unnecessary for it to have to be raised in this way regularly in legislation that we pass in Parliament, but here we have a marvellous opportunity for the Government—the Minister is looking very excited about this prospect—to introduce, in a legitimate area of the Bill, something that will really make lives much better for those with disabilities through product development. I very much support Amendment 79.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

I thank all noble Lords who took part in this interesting debate, and the Minister for his response. Clearly, there is still a long way to go when it comes to an inclusive experience, inclusive products and inclusive services—and, thus, a sense of living in communities and cities, and in a country, that are inclusive by design.

I thank the Minister for his response. I would not be averse to a letter; it is always nice to receive one. Christmas cards are also possible at this festive time. I will certainly look carefully at Hansard, but I fancy that we may well return to “inclusive by design” on Report. For the time being, I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 52.

Amendment 52 withdrawn.

Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [HL]

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 25th November 2024 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Holmes of Richmond]

14: Clause 1, page 2, line 6, after “item” insert “, and includes production reliant on software or artificial intelligence”

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to take part in this second day of Committee on the Bill, and a pleasure to speak on this group of amendments. I will move Amendment 14 in my name and speak also to Amendments 54, 75 to 78 and 99 to 101. In doing so, I declare my interests, not least my technology interests, as set out in the register, in particular as an adviser to Socially Recruited, an AI company.

The purpose of these amendments is to bring greater clarity to consumers, citizens and indeed our whole society and economy when it comes to the interaction of AI across so many sectors of our lives, not least in product production, deployment and use. Each amendment has a specific focus. When taken as a suite, they would make a significant difference to citizens’ and consumers’ understanding of where AI has been used in the production of a product or is inherent to the deployment and use of that product—which can only be a positive thing.

Amendment 14 seeks to amend the definition of “production” to highlight where AI has been involved in the production process. As with the previous group of amendments, I could just as easily have drafted an amendment expanding the definition of “product”, because it seems that, with the Bill as drafted, we have a product regulation regime and a production of product regime that do not really fit the economy, society and methods of production we now have across our daily experience.

I will give another example. We have had doorbells and out-of-control vacuum cleaners, potentially. Now let me give you the Minister’s fridge. After a hard day in Committee, the Minister returns home and takes out a lovely piece of soft cheese. Unfortunately, because the AI involved in that fridge has decided, for whatever reason—we know not—to increase the temperature in the fridge to 25 degrees, the Minister becomes very ill as a result of his midnight snack. How does the Bill help the Minister in his travails? The fridge is clearly a product and would be covered, but in no sense can the safety, operation and use of the fridge be of any benefit in the set of circumstances that resulted from AI acting in the way it did. That is what Amendment 14 is all about and I look forward to the Minister’s response on how the Bill could be amended to give better protection, certainty and understanding where AI is involved in the production of products, and indeed in the products themselves.

Similarly, that theme continues through Amendment 54. I believe that, if we are to have greater clarity and consistency, it would be helpful for the Government to undertake a review of all product legislation and regulation, both to see how it would deal with all the issues, opportunities and challenges around artificial intelligence and to assess all that statute and regulatory framework’s ability to look at competency in addressing AI, in terms of how it is operating and having an impact on so many people’s lives because of the products in which it is already embedded, whose use it is part of and which it controls. Oftentimes, it has an impact on people without them even knowing that AI is in the mix. I look forward to the Minister’s response on this potential review.

Amendments 75 to 78 look at labelling. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, for signing Amendment 75; similarly, I should have thanked the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, for co-signing Amendment 14. If consumers are to have greater understanding of the products they are buying, it would seem helpful for there to be labelling of that product—simple labelling stating that AI was involved in the production of the product and/or is involved in the product. By this, I mean not only a simple label to alert consumers if that is the case but a QR code with far more detail so that all consumers can be aware of the AI elements of a product’s production, particularly in terms of its power usage, water usage and compute usage. Clause 5 of my Artificial Intelligence (Regulation) Bill, to which the Minister in opposition gave full-throated support, covers a number of these issues. I am interested in the Minister’s response to the concept of labelling around product where AI has been involved in the production of a product or is involved in its use.

Amendment 76 goes specifically to the music industry, where artificial intelligence itself has created music products. Again, to my mind, this should be labelled so that consumers know how music has come into being—that is, if it is simply AI-generated with no human involvement.

Amendment 77 offers a statutory option for the Minister to consider amending the Consumer Rights Act 2015, which would give far greater clarity to musicians—indeed, to all creatives across our economy and our society. The current situation is that many creatives find themselves on the wrong end of AI usage of their creative works, with no respect, no consent and no remuneration.

Amendment 78 moves us on and takes us into the areas of likeness and other elements of our personal IP. If AI products take such IP rights, this is not currently covered. I am interested in the Minister’s response as to how we can give our creative community greater clarity, greater comfort and greater support—and, through such labelling and statutory amendment, give far greater legislative cover not just to musicians but to all of our creatives, right across our society and our economy.

Amendments 99 to 101 look at potentially developing new metrology standards for AI data centres and search. Again, they cover these recurrent themes of consumer knowledge, consumer understanding and clarity around what is involved in AI-created products and products with AI in them. It is unlikely that many people who conduct an AI search or query, particularly on the new generative AI models, know the impact of every search in terms of its power usage, its water usage and its compute usage. Similarly, how many of us consider the water usage and compute power of what might seem like a more heritage search—that is, how much is involved in each and every one of those searches? Does the Minister agree that it would be helpful for the Government to undertake a programme of consultation to see whether new metrology standards could be developed? This would be helpful for consumers, businesses and developers in delivering clarity around what is involved in these new product creations.

--- Later in debate ---

I agree with noble Lords that the growth of digital products and AI is one of the most fundamental policy challenges facing the Government today—all Governments, for that matter. This Bill ensures that the risks AI might bring out in physical products can effectively be covered by our suite of product and metrology regulations. I have, I hope, explained how this Bill seeks to allow product regulation to take account of digital products and AI without setting itself up as the regulator of those things. Consequently, I ask the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I thank everybody who took part in this debate and the Minister for his response. I am convinced that there will be a number of issues to discuss between Committee and Report—certainly to return to when we reach Report—but, for now, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 14 withdrawn.

Computer Systems: Independent Testing

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Monday 12th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

Regrettably, the noble Lord is wrong. We set up a multistakeholder group of systems owners, law enforcement, cybersecurity companies and prosecutors—a systems access group—to specifically consider the proposal of statutory defences. Six meetings were held between May 2023 and October 2023. Unfortunately, there is a lack of consensus among those participants and the cybersecurity industry, and with law enforcement and prosecutors, on whether there is a need for statutory defences and on what is considered to be legitimate activity. That lack of consensus proves the point that careful thought is needed in this area.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my technology interests as set out in the register. Does my noble friend agree that it is time that a statute which is 34 years old, was introduced when only 0.5% of us were online and which 91% of cyber professionals say is damaging to the UK cyber industry, was updated to enable our fantastic cyber professionals and to increase growth and productivity in the UK?

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My noble friend raises some good points and, as I said, the Government are considering the right way to do that. If I talk about some of the difficulties, it might illustrate this point to the House. Amending legislation to enable cybersecurity activities involves accessing computer systems, and the data is complex. This needs a lot of thought. We would need to establish what constitutes legitimate cybersecurity activity and the boundaries of such activity. We would need to consider who should be allowed to undertake such activity, where the professional standards would need to be complied with and what reporting or oversight would be needed. We cannot make changes that would prevent law enforcement agencies and prosecutors investigating and prosecuting those who commit cybercrimes. It is right to consider this carefully and that is what we are doing.

Equipment Theft (Prevention) Bill

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 19th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I rise briefly in support of the Bill. I congratulate my noble friend Lord Blencathra on the thorough and clear manner in which he introduced it, taking us through all its provisions. It has to be a positive Bill with respect to the equipment and kit that so many often small businesses and individuals rely on; to make that equipment more difficult to steal and more difficult to sell is clearly a positive thing. The Bill brings support to our rural communities and the countryside and, through that, to our country. I support it and I wish it a swift, positive passage on to the statute book

Licensing Act 2003 (Liaison Committee Report)

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Grand Committee

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to take part in this debate. In doing so, I declare my technology interests. I congratulate my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering, all members of the committee and, indeed, all the staff of the House who worked to produce this and the original report.

Does my noble friend the Minister agree that, ultimately, if planning decisions were predicated on the concept of inclusive by design and if licensing decisions had an access statement attached to them, that could transform this whole process, not just for disabled people but for all people?

I will talk about digital ID and inclusion, and make some points on timing. Does the Minister agree that, once licences are issued, given the significant proportion of the difficulties that sometimes emerge, particularly where alcohol licences are involved, an effective system of digital ID would be such a positive force for good in this space? It would not be centralised but controlled by the individual, deciding what credentials to give, at what point and for what purpose. That would make such a difference to so many of the problems with that particular type of licensed venue.

I turn to inclusion, and inclusion by design. There is a recommendation in this report, which is also taken from the special inquiry report from the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, which suggests, rightly, attaching an access statement to any licence. This seems to make complete sense. Does the Minister agree?

Although it has taken some time to get this debate, it offers the opportunity to have a bit of a curtain-raiser for some of the issues yet to come in the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Foster, and my noble friend Lady McIntosh rightly raised a number of issues. Does the Minister agree that there are issues at the heart of the Bill that could be resolved by having an inclusive by design amendment accepted when it comes to planning, which would run through the entirety of the Bill? Many changes were made by the Business and Planning Act 2020 when we were in the midst of the Covid emergency. Many of those measures brought in in those emergency times are now set to be made permanent by virtue of the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill.

I will mention one example to make my point. Under the Bill, the consultation time for pavement licences for cafés or other venues is currently proposed to be cut from 28 days to 14 days. Does my noble friend the Minister really believe that there is a need to take a fortnight out of that consultation process? Potentially, this would be a prima facie breach of the public sector equality duty, as it is likely that it would adversely impact disabled people, who often need increased time to have the consultation in different formats and to be made aware of the consultation. Can it be right to put in the Bill measures which were introduced for a specific purpose at a specific time and seek to make them permanent?

In conclusion, as has already been said, there is a clear need to tidy up the real issue between planning and licensing. If we could enable the system to be inclusive by design, with venues’ access requirements clearly being reviewed at the time of the licence application, it would benefit the venues. There would be a financial benefit, and it would benefit patrons. It would benefit not just disabled people or older people but all people. Communities, our cities and our country made better—would not my noble friend the Minister want to get right behind that?

Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Report stage & Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 13th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bull (CB)]

I rise principally in support of Amendments 12 and 13. My strong preference would be for these straightforward amendments, which would prevent all use of children and vulnerable adults in the way the Bill proposes to allow. If the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham, presses this, I shall vote with him. If the House cannot align behind this absolute position, I shall support Amendment 24, so effectively argued by the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron.

I have heard nothing in previous stages of the Bill to convince me to drop my fundamental opposition to the use of children as covert intelligence sources, and certainly nothing to persuade me that this further expansion of their use in authorised criminal activities should be allowed. Encouraging children into criminality to serve the ends of the law stands in direct opposition to what should always be our priority, which is to extract children and other vulnerable people from situations and relationships that promote criminality. It also contravenes existing child protection laws, including the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. As the noble Lord, Lord Young, said in his as ever excellent speech, they make it clear that a child’s best interests must be a primary consideration in all decisions regarding that child. As the helpful joint briefing that many of us received from Just for Kids Law, Justice and the Children’s Rights Alliance for England points out, if a parent were knowingly to place a child in a dangerous, criminal situation, the law would rightly take action to remove that child to a place of safety. Yet that is exactly what the Bill authorises the law to do.

We also know, as the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, so forcefully reminded us, that the children most likely to be recruited as covert sources are already among the most vulnerable, at risk of being targeted by criminal gangs and more likely to come from disadvantaged backgrounds, to live in deprived areas, to have fewer opportunities and to have suffered from trauma, substance misuse, mental health issues and learning disabilities. These children need the law to protect them, not to exploit them.

Nor have I heard anything to persuade me that the value of children’s covert activities would be such that it overrides these moral concerns. In fact, there is good evidence to the contrary—that teenagers are not particularly effective covert sources, because of the status of their neurological development. As the brain develops into adulthood, the connections between the rational and emotional parts of the brain grow stronger and more effective. But in teenagers, this process is still under way, and adolescents process information with the part that deals with emotion. That is why teenagers are more likely to act not on the basis of reason but on instinct; it is why they are more likely to engage in risky behaviour and less likely to consider the consequences of their actions.

Added to this, most young people involved in gangs and drug supply are themselves regular users, often because they need to fit in with a prevailing drug culture. Drug use also impacts on brain development, delaying further the development in the connections between the logical and emotional parts of their brains. So alongside the moral question of whether it can ever be right to encourage children into situations of criminality, we have to set an equally serious consideration about the accuracy, consistency and completeness of any information they are likely to provide. In this case, as in so many, the end result does not justify the means.

Amendment 13 would prohibit granting of criminal conduct authorisation to vulnerable individuals, victims of modern slavery or trafficking. I have raised at previous stages the concern of Anti-Slavery International: people who have been trafficked or enslaved are unlikely to be able to give informed consent, because of the experiences of manipulation and control they have endured and the long-term psychological implications of this on their ability to take independent decisions. This amendment would give vulnerable and already traumatised people the protection that they deserve. Alongside this, however, I would welcome a commitment from the Minister to address the omission from the code of practice of any reference to mental capacity and the specific issues to be taken into account when dealing with individuals with impaired decision-making capacity.

The Government’s own Amendment 26 seeks to introduce safeguards to the granting of criminal conduct authorisations to children used as CHIS. However, as we have heard—I shall not repeat the reasons—this amendment falls short of addressing the concerns expressed by this House. It largely reiterates existing safeguards and still fails to ensure that 16 to 17 year-olds and vulnerable adults have access to an appropriate adult at all meetings.

Amendment 24 would place protection for children, victims of modern slavery or trafficking and vulnerable adults on a statutory footing. These are some of the most vulnerable people in our society. Their protection needs to be enshrined in law and, if the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, decides to divide the House, I will be voting with her.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I support Amendment 12 in the name of my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham. It is clear, coherent and consistent. It seems to me that my noble friend’s parliamentary career from the outset has been marked out by two great skills. First, he has the ability of get to the essence of the issue in front of him at the time. His second—and greater—skill is the ability to see where things are going, not least in the near and mid future. In his excellent opening speech, he demonstrated both skills perfectly.

I urge him to press Amendment 12 to a Division. A majority of noble Lords have spoken in favour of it. It is a matter of testing the opinion of the House on what is right, rather than what may fit with a particular day’s parliamentary arithmetic. I cannot improve on any of his words in his introduction, save to say that I agree with every last detail, and I urge him, as have a majority of other noble Lords, to press his amendment to a vote.

[Lord Russell of Liverpool (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 24. I am grateful to my noble friend Lady Kidron for taking the lead on this amendment, to Stella Creasy for working with us so effectively from another place, and to a wide range of parliamentarians across all parties in both Houses.

As my noble friend Lady Kidron said in her comprehensive introductory speech, we are dealing with children, a point made forcefully just now by my noble friend Lady Bull—children, physically and mentally; children often abused, vulnerable, confused and frightened; children whose moral compass and sense of what is normal and of what is right and wrong may be tragically awry. Whatever they may have done, and whatever they may have become involved in, they are still children in statute, in international charter and in conscience. They need and deserve protection.

I pay tribute to the Minister, to her colleagues, and in particular to her friend James Brokenshire, who was mentioned on Monday and is in all our thoughts—I reiterate on behalf, I suspect, of everybody speaking today our best wishes for his speedy recovery—to the Bill team, and to the different individuals she has linked many of us up with to deepen our understanding of this complex background. She has made clear from the start that she understands our concerns, is sympathetic in principle and is keen to find ways to build in additional safeguards that will protect the child but also, very importantly, will build greater trust both within and without Parliament. Government Amendment 26 is not a bad start but, for the reasons stated eloquently by my noble friend Lady Kidron and others, I fear it is not good enough. A slightly enhanced re-emphasis of the status quo is not going to make a material difference to these children.

I entirely support the spirit behind Amendment 24 and I am grateful that the Government, even if they feel unable to accept it today, have acknowledged that our concerns are genuine and that there may be further work to be done before the Bill becomes law. In addition to what is stated in Amendment 24, I would like to place on the record four additional ways in which safe- guards and processes might be enhanced and improved. I have already shared these with the Minister. First, I ask the Government to consider involving IPCO from the very inception of the authorisation of a child deployment. I share the confidence of my noble friend Lord Anderson in the capacity of IPCO to oversee these highly sensitive issues, and I suspect that IPCO itself would be broadly receptive to this idea and that it could undertake this using its current resources. This would mean that, with child deployments, IPCO would be being proactive, not primarily reactive.

Secondly, for children in care who may become child CHIS, how can we enable the relevant social worker to be appropriately involved? There are many cases where the social worker is unable to do so for a variety of reasons, personal, organisational or legal, and we have work to do to ensure that there are always effective substitutes to hand. Thirdly, can we commit to a comprehensive audit and review process at the end of every child deployment to assess what went well, what went less well, what we learned and what we are going to do about it? Lastly, do we not have a duty of care to follow up with ex-child CHIS to monitor their welfare, to help and guide as necessary, and to measure the effects, if any, of their experience during deployments? This would truly be putting the interests of the child at the centre of the process and would acknowledge our responsibility to help them ensure a successful transition to adulthood.

I commend Amendment 24 to the House. I applaud the Government for being in listening mode and I urge all noble Lords to agree to this amendment, to send a clear message that we have more to do but that we intend to work with and not against the Government to achieve this.

Port Examination Codes of Practice and National Security Determinations Guidance Regulations 2020

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Friday 10th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for the clear and comprehensive manner in which she introduced the regulations, as is always her style; she has a great knack of making the complex comprehensible. Like other noble Lords, I will comment on the retention of biometrics. Can my noble friend say how much of a compromise position the five-year mark was, and how strong the evidence and arguments were for having a longer period—potentially, as the noble Lord, Lord Mann, suggested, 15 years?

Secondly, on the question of ports and the UK border, I think it would be fair to say that, in many ways, we do not have a porous border but a partial border. Can the Minister tell us what number of ports of all types are currently, to all intents and purposes, unpersonned in this respect? What percentage of the overall number of ports is this, and how many different levels of coverage are there from, say, an unpersonned port all the way through to what one might expect at the highest level at, say, London’s Heathrow Airport?

As a number of noble Lords have commented, if the Minister’s department were to make the case for greater coverage at all ports, I think that would get a good deal of support from all parties across Parliament.

Covid-19: UK Border Health Measures

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Thursday 4th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, we will not have these measures in place for any longer than we need to, and, as I say, they will be the subject of regular review. Way back, between February and March, we had enhanced monitoring at the border because cases were low here. There was no point doing that when cases reached a high level. However, now that cases are back to a low level, this is the time to put these measures in place. However, I assure my noble friend that they will be regularly reviewed and that we do not want to keep them in place for any longer than we have to.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

I agree with comments from other noble Lords and congratulate the Minister on all the work she does for this House and for the country. What advice would she give to people who are thinking of a summer holiday abroad this year, and indeed to those who have already paid a deposit for a summer holiday? Should they go ahead and pay the balance and look forward to a lovely trip because these measures will be long gone before the start of the summer holidays?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I am one of those people who would like a summer holiday and do not know whether I will have one. As I say, we will regularly review the measures that we have in place. We want people to have a summer holiday and we want to unlock the country as soon as we possibly can. There would be nothing nicer than for us all to have a nice holiday at the end of July.

Equality Act 2010 (Amendment) (Disabled Access) Bill [HL]

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 24th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to support my noble friend Lord Blencathra at the Second Reading of this excellent, well-crafted and beautifully straightforward Bill. Legislation often asks Governments to take steps but in this instance that is exactly what it is doing. I ask the Minister: if not this step, what step will address this most simple and straightforward access issue?

On Black Friday, no matter how bad the bustle and crush is, how much blacker is it for those wheelchair users and other access-impaired people who cannot even access the stores to get to the bargains? I was fortunate to be on the board of the Disability Rights Commission in the early 2000s when many of the best features of the Disability Discrimination Act came into force, not least those related to access to goods and services. We knew at the time that this cuts across all of civic society—retail, leisure and religion. Tiny steps effectively deny people access to pay, play or pray.

Many of the arguments at the time of the passage of the DDA, and then when Part 3 came in in the early 2000s, were: “It’ll be too expensive” and, “We can’t possibly do this—businesses will fold”. As we have seen, almost a decade and a half later, no businesses actually folded as a result of the regulations and the legislation. Rather than seeing it in those terms, why not just flip it the other way round and see the positive economic boost that businesses can have if they are accessible to all members of society? I know that personally. I am not a wheelchair user but I have experienced what it is like to be denied access to supermarkets, restaurants and minicabs. I went to a restaurant a few years ago and the proprietor actually stood in the door to bar me entrance to the restaurant. He said in very straightforward terms: “We don’t serve dogs”. I said, “That’s okay—I don’t eat them”.

But there is a fundamental point behind this because, when you experience denial of access and discrimination, you do not experience it in a cerebral state, you feel it. You feel it in your heart and in your guts. It is to be denied fairness, with no dignity, no respect and no equality, just exclusion. That is the beauty of my noble friend’s Bill. It is not actually anything to do with steps, it is simply to do with inclusion. Why would a business or building not want to be inclusive for all members of society? Imagine: what could be simpler than taking this Bill right through the Lords and Commons, passing it and enabling that inclusion right across the United Kingdom? Tens of thousands of small steps would be removed, enabling access and economic activity. We are talking only about the removal of small steps. Actually, there is no “only”. It is just the removal of small steps. One small step for premises, one great leap for inclusion.

Immigration: International Students

Lord Holmes of Richmond Excerpts

Tuesday 10th October 2017 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Holmes of Richmond]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the Office for National Statistics’ Exit Check data released in August, whether they will consider the removal of international students from the net migration figures.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I refer to my interests in the register.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, the recent publication of exit checks data shows that our reforms since 2010 to tackle abuse in the education sector have worked. Net migration statistics are produced by the independent Office for National Statistics. There is no limit on the number of international students who can come to the UK. As long as students are compliant with Immigration Rules, they should make a very limited contribution to net migration numbers.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond]

My Lords, since 2010, the number of international students coming to the UK has fallen by 6%, while the global market has increased by 7%, with an estimated cost to the UK economy of £9 billion. Does my noble friend agree that this summer’s statistics clearly evidence that there is no material issue with international students overstaying their visas, as 97.4% stayed within those terms? Does she also agree that we need to get out the message, through the FCO, the British Council and all channels and good offices: “Students of the world, you are so welcome here—come study in the UK and be part of our future”?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I agree totally with the points that my noble friend makes. It is very pleasing to see that students are in a very compliant environment. To the year ending June 2017, there was a 9% increase in Russell group universities, and a 17% increase in all student visas granted for Chinese nationals. To bring up a point made in a previous Question, I mention that the proportion of Indian students coming to study in the UK at a higher education institute has increased from around 50% in 2010 to around 93% in the year ending June 2017.