Licensing Act 2003 (Liaison Committee Report)
(1 year, 6 months ago)
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Baroness McIntosh of Pickering
That the Grand Committee takes note of the Report from the Liaison Committee The Licensing Act 2003: post-legislative scrutiny Follow-up report (2nd Report, HL Paper 39).
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
My Lords, I am grateful for the opportunity to debate this report and I thank all who will be contributing this afternoon, especially my noble friend the Minister. I look forward to noble Lords’ contributions to the debate.
It was an honour to chair the original inquiry and serve with such distinguished colleagues on the committee. This was a timely opportunity to review the Licensing Act 2003, which transformed the legal regime governing the sale of alcohol, replacing licensing provisions across 10 statutes and unifying them in one Act. The Act liberalised alcohol licensing and transferred authority for licensing from the judicial system to local authorities, establishing licensing committees to make decisions on enforcing the provisions of the Act.
I declare my interests in the register as the non-executive chair of the National Proof of Age Standards Scheme—PASSCO CIC—and as a non-practising member of the Faculty of Advocates.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
I thank all those who made this inquiry possible, especially the members of the Liaison Committee, who kindly agreed to a follow-up report on our original inquiry. I also thank our original clerk, Michael Collon; our specialist adviser, Sarah Clover; and all the committee staff on our follow-up inquiry, including Christopher Clarke, Heather Fuller, Philippa Tudor and Hannah Murdoch. I express our gratitude to the witnesses for their extremely helpful evidence.
The report focuses on specific areas: the co-ordination of licensing and planning systems; the agent of change principle; training; access to licensed premises for disabled people; the night-time economy; the pricing and taxation of alcohol; the sale of alcohol airside at airports; application systems; and the national database for personal licence holders. The work of the committee straddled two principal departments: the Home Office and what is now the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. We are grateful to the Ministers of those departments for engaging with us.
Although it was not focusing on the impact of Covid-19 on licensed premises, the committee was mindful from the evidence that it heard of the effects of Covid on the hospitality sector and the night-time economy.
The Government responded to our follow-up report in November 2022. I must express a degree of disappointment that they were unable to support many of our conclusions and recommendations, particularly with regard to co-ordinating licensing and planning systems and the agent of change principle, but also on disabled access. The committee recommended that the existing law be amended to require that an application for a premises licence should be accompanied by a disabled access and facilities statement. I ask my noble friend the Minister for a progress report on both this aspect and the review to Part M of the building regulations, as well as on the timescale for finalising and implementing any changes. In particular, will the provisions be extended to the accessibility of existing premises? Also, following the welcome appointment of the disability and access ambassador, has there been any significant change to access?
I also press my noble friend to confirm whether a national working group relating to the night-time economy has been established, as the Government promised, to look at reducing alcohol-related offending. If so, who sits on it, and where can information on it be found?
On training, the Government undertook to discuss with training providers whether additional signposting could be included in the Section 182 guidance and to continue to support efforts to ensure that all those involved in licensing work are trained accordingly. Can my noble friend update us on progress, and, equally, on the rollout for training for police licensing officers?
Regarding the sale of alcohol airside, the Government rejected the committee’s request to review its decision not to proceed with licensing airside within three years. Given the potential toxic mix of excessive alcohol consumption and air rage, will my noble friend revisit this decision?
It is highly recommended that the Government do a formal review of the impact of minimum unit pricing across Scotland and Wales.
UKHospitality has made some powerful comments regarding the late-night levy regulations being repealed and supports the committee recommendations that the Government should consult with industry and interested parties on the efficacy of the levy, suggesting that these powers be removed unless meaningful benefits are identified.
When do the Government expect to publish their response to the recent consultation under the Policing and Crime Act 2017?
The Institute of Licensing has called for the agent of change principle to be adopted into the Section 182 guidance to ensure that licensing guidance reflects the National Planning Policy Framework. In the debate on the levelling-up Bill on Monday 24 April, the Minister, my noble friend Lady Scott, said in response to an amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Henig, the noble Lord, Lord Foster, who is present today, and me, that
“the Government agree that co-ordination between the planning and licensing regimes is crucial to protect those businesses in practice. This is why in December 2022 the Home Office published a revised version of its guidance, made under Section 182 of the Licensing Act 2003, cross-referencing the relevant section of the National Planning Policy Framework for the first time”.
The passage that I quote now is the most significant. Crucially, she went on to say:
“we will make sure that our policy results in better protections for these businesses and delivers on the agent of change principle in practice … the Government’s policies embed the agent of change principle and … we will continue to make sure it is reflected in planning and licensing decisions in future”.—[Official Report, 24/4/23; col. 995.]
I raise this as the sense and meaning of that passage is not entirely clear from either the levelling-up Bill or my noble friend Lady Scott’s comments. Any clarification would be appreciated. Do my noble friend’s comments indicate that the Government might bring forward an amendment to the levelling-up Bill in this regard? That would be most welcome.
There are three other issues relating to the agent of change principle. The first is inadequacy of policy. The agent of change principle is found only in policy, in the National Planning Policy Framework and, since December 2022, in the Secretary of State’s Section 182 licensing guidance, both in identical terms:
“Planning policies and decisions should ensure that new development can be integrated effectively with existing businesses and community facilities (such as places of worship, pubs, music venues and sports clubs)”,
et cetera.
The policy is inadequate because it is ambiguous. Currently, the language makes it clear that the policy is necessarily vague in order to be flexible in various circumstances. Terms such as “effectively”, “unreasonable” and “suitable” present challenges for all parties and decision-makers as they attempt to define what the precise meaning should be in any given case. Developers are likely to be in a superior position to argue their case than the existing businesses, who may not have a seat at the negotiating table at all.
In the amendment that we tabled in Committee, we attempted to ensure that statutory provisions will be defined so as to reduce this ambiguity. The proposed amendment sets out concrete expectations, such as the mandatory preparation of noise reports where existing businesses are identified.
The second reason for addressing this inadequacy of policy relates to planning balance. As in any policy area, a balance must be reached between competing interests. Planning and licensing policies compete with each other in a balancing exercise—literally called the “planning balance” in the NPPF. The decision-maker must place weight on the competing policies on a case- by-case basis.
Finally, this should be mandatory. Existing businesses may not even be aware that a planning application that potentially affects them has been made to the local planning authority. Local planning authorities are very dependent on consultees drawing relevant matters to their attention. Decision-makers may be unaware of any “unreasonable restrictions” that might be placed on existing businesses as a result of the decision that they are about to make. Therefore, in my view, this amendment is key to the future agent of change being properly understood and applied.
In conclusion, I return to one of our key recommendations: co-ordination between licensing and planning systems. May I press my noble friend the Minister to clarify what changes have been implemented to improve the co-ordination of these systems?
I am delighted to recommend this report to the Committee and beg to move.
Lord Foster of Bath (LD)
My Lords, I suspect that very few of us would doubt the merit of the decision that was made to introduce special Select Committees and ensure that some carry out post-legislative scrutiny. It is equally welcome that, from time to time, the Liaison Committee conducts a follow-up inquiry. I had the opportunity to serve on both the 2017 special committee that reviewed the 2003 Licensing Act and the Liaison Committee in its follow-up work, which reported last year. Both were extremely ably chaired by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering.
As we have already heard, the committee concluded that a radical, comprehensive overhaul of the Act was needed, with the work of licensing committees being taken over by planning committees and appeals going to the Planning Inspectorate rather than to magistrates. The committee made a large number of recommendations, which included: better training of councillors engaged in licensing activities; increased safeguards in relation to the extra powers given to the police; the use of taxation and pricing measures to control excessive consumption; a reconsideration of measures such as early morning restriction orders and late night levies; and bringing the sale of alcohol airside within the ambit of licensing legislation. I want to concentrate my remarks on just two of the other recommendations that we made: greater co-ordination between the planning and licensing functions of local authorities; and measures to embed the agent of change principle into planning legislation, guidance and practice more effectively.
In terms of co-ordination between planning and licensing, the Select Committee recommended:
“Sections 6–10 of the Licensing Act 2003 should be amended to transfer the functions of local authority licensing committees and sub-committees to the planning committees”,
and we suggested that there should be trials of this in pilot areas. When the new regime was being designed at the turn of the century, local authority planning committees were in full control of nearly all aspects of land use other than licensing. The committee concluded that it was—and, frankly, remains—a mystery why, when control of land use for the sale of alcohol was being considered, it was thought necessary to set up committees with different constitutions and powers. The result is absurdities like applications for new pubs receiving planning permission but not alcohol licences, or vice versa, sometimes on the grounds that the noise anticipated would be excessive in a residential area for planning purposes but not for licensing purposes.
The committee’s proposal would have resolved those absurdities. Responding to the Select Committee’s report, the Government acknowledged that there was a problem, saying that they
“recognise that coordination between systems is inconsistent and could be improved in many areas”.
However, as we have sadly heard, the Government have ruled out even trials of our proposals. I will suggest to the Minister two other reasons why the Government should reconsider.
The first is quite simple. As the noble Baroness has already said, planning policies compete with each other but also with licensing policies. Decision-makers must weigh up competing policies—both planning and licensing—on a case-by-case basis. Surely the Minister agrees that managing that balance is best done by a single decision-making body.
The second argument relates to current problems within planning decision-making. The planning process is frequently blamed for a shortfall in the provision of new housing. It is taking longer and longer to approve even planning permission for home extensions. Last year, for example, more than 100,000 such applications took more than eight weeks to reach a decision. It would be easy to blame local planning authorities but LGA research shows that, faced with reductions in funding, 305 of the 343 planning departments are operating at a deficit. As a result, they have significant staff shortages. A quarter of planning authorities do not even have a head of planning reporting directly to a council chief executive. England’s chief planning officer, Joanna Averley, acknowledged this recently, saying that there are
“not enough planners coming into local government”.
She added that the Government do not have the funds to pay for more.
It is plain that a major amendment to the planning process will have to come sooner rather than later. The amalgamation of planning and licensing through economies of scale would go some way towards helping the problems I have described. Does the Minister accept that this would be the time to include reform of the licensing process so that the task is given to planning committees, as the Select Committee first recommended six years ago?
Another example illustrating the potential confusion between planning and licensing is in respect of the agent of change principle; I hope that my comments here will complement those of the noble Baroness. Put simply, the agent of change principle ensures that a new development must shoulder responsibility for compliance when situated near, for example, an existing music venue. Similarly, if a music venue opens in an existing residential area, the new venue would be responsible for complying with residential requirements such as enhanced sound-proofing.
Members of the Select Committee were pleased that the Government agreed with our recommendation that the agent of change principle should be reflected in both the National Planning Policy Framework and Section 182 guidance. This has now happened. However, the Liaison Committee heard that the principle is inadequate as it stands and does not sufficiently explain the duties of all parties involved. It needs to go further to protect licensed premises and local residents in our changing high streets. Indeed, coupled with the lack of consistency between the planning and licensing systems, the current arrangements are still not guaranteeing the protection of live venues.
In a recent debate on the levelling up Bill, I cited two examples—the Night & Day Café in Manchester and the Jago in Dalston—both of which have both been served with noise abatement notices as a result of complaints from residents of newly developed properties in their vicinities. Fortunately, the Jago prevailed at appeal and the noise abatement notice was withdrawn by the council. For Night & Day, however, the appeal has still not been resolved after lengthy delays.
Under the present arrangements, the agent of change principle is not covered by legislation; it is only in policy, with language that has proved vague. How do decision-makers interpret words such as “effectively”, “unreasonable” or “suitable”? How do they balance the agent of change principle against, for example, the urgent need for more housing? How do existing businesses know well enough in advance about new developments that may have an impact on them?
To resolve such issues, the Liaison Committee recommended that:
“The Government should review the ‘Agent of Change’ principle, strengthen it, and consider incorporating it into current planning reforms in the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill”.
The Government did not disagree; and they also pointed to the then upcoming Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill as a vehicle to address these concerns.
As we have heard, in Committee, the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, moved an amendment, which I strongly supported, which would have incorporated the agent of change principle into law for licensing and other purposes. The amendment would have helped the Government achieve what they agreed was needed: greater clarity about what was expected of councils and businesses. However, the Minister responding, the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Bybrook, claimed that the amendment was not needed and gave the reasons we have already heard. She said that
“we will make sure that our policy results in better protections for these businesses and delivers on the agent of change principle in practice”.—[Official Report, 24/4/23; col. 995.]
But there are currently no such relevant changes proposed in the Bill. So I repeat the question asked by the noble Baroness: can the Minister explain exactly how the Government intend to achieve both the recommendations of the Liaison Committee and, more importantly, their own promise?
I began by welcoming special Select Committee and Liaison Committee follow-up reports. Frankly, it would be even more welcome if the Government paid greater attention to their work and proposals.
Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to take part in this debate. In doing so, I declare my technology interests. I congratulate my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering, all members of the committee and, indeed, all the staff of the House who worked to produce this and the original report.
Does my noble friend the Minister agree that, ultimately, if planning decisions were predicated on the concept of inclusive by design and if licensing decisions had an access statement attached to them, that could transform this whole process, not just for disabled people but for all people?
I will talk about digital ID and inclusion, and make some points on timing. Does the Minister agree that, once licences are issued, given the significant proportion of the difficulties that sometimes emerge, particularly where alcohol licences are involved, an effective system of digital ID would be such a positive force for good in this space? It would not be centralised but controlled by the individual, deciding what credentials to give, at what point and for what purpose. That would make such a difference to so many of the problems with that particular type of licensed venue.
I turn to inclusion, and inclusion by design. There is a recommendation in this report, which is also taken from the special inquiry report from the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, which suggests, rightly, attaching an access statement to any licence. This seems to make complete sense. Does the Minister agree?
Although it has taken some time to get this debate, it offers the opportunity to have a bit of a curtain-raiser for some of the issues yet to come in the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Foster, and my noble friend Lady McIntosh rightly raised a number of issues. Does the Minister agree that there are issues at the heart of the Bill that could be resolved by having an inclusive by design amendment accepted when it comes to planning, which would run through the entirety of the Bill? Many changes were made by the Business and Planning Act 2020 when we were in the midst of the Covid emergency. Many of those measures brought in in those emergency times are now set to be made permanent by virtue of the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill.
I will mention one example to make my point. Under the Bill, the consultation time for pavement licences for cafés or other venues is currently proposed to be cut from 28 days to 14 days. Does my noble friend the Minister really believe that there is a need to take a fortnight out of that consultation process? Potentially, this would be a prima facie breach of the public sector equality duty, as it is likely that it would adversely impact disabled people, who often need increased time to have the consultation in different formats and to be made aware of the consultation. Can it be right to put in the Bill measures which were introduced for a specific purpose at a specific time and seek to make them permanent?
In conclusion, as has already been said, there is a clear need to tidy up the real issue between planning and licensing. If we could enable the system to be inclusive by design, with venues’ access requirements clearly being reviewed at the time of the licence application, it would benefit the venues. There would be a financial benefit, and it would benefit patrons. It would benefit not just disabled people or older people but all people. Communities, our cities and our country made better—would not my noble friend the Minister want to get right behind that?
Lord Smith of Hindhead (Con)
My Lords, I am pleased to be able to make a contribution to this take-note debate and regret that I was unable to participate in the earlier debate on this subject. I declare my interests as CEO of the Association of Conservative Clubs, which comprises some 750 affiliated private members’ social clubs throughout the UK, and as chairman of Best Bar None, a national accreditation scheme that works with the Home Office, the alcohol industry, the police and local authorities, with the aim of encouraging a safer, more responsible alcohol-related leisure environment by helping to reduce crime, disorder and underage sales. I had the honour to serve on the Licensing Act Select Committee under the chairmanship of my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering, and as a member of the Liaison Committee at the time when that committee requested a follow-up on the Select Committee’s report in January 2019.
I believe the agent of change principle and the recommendations being made have merit. The industry certainly benefited from planning working with licensing during the pandemic—for example, with pavement seating, as my noble friend Lord Holmes has just mentioned. Whether this topic is, however, currently paramount on the hospitality industry’s wish list is perhaps doubtful, with so many other more pressing concerns. I will therefore concentrate my comments on some of the other matters within the report.
I am happy to support the need for better and more consistent training of local government officers and councillors to ensure that those sitting on the licensing subcommittees are adequately trained in the subject of licensing. The industry spends millions of pounds training its staff each year, and organisations such as the British Institute of Innkeeping, Pubwatch and the Institute of Licensing devote much of their time and resources to this field. Best Bar None has grown from 40 schemes pre Covid to 59 active schemes today, including airport schemes. In addition, it now has over 2,000 individual premises in the process of receiving accreditation through its central scheme. Best Bar None has invested in new technology to take the accreditation process online, enabling schemes to more easily monitor how their premises are doing, as well as providing tailored reports for each venue.
My reason for mentioning this is to highlight the differences between those who are tasked with operating under the Licensing Act and those tasked with enforcing it. If a person wants to run a pub or bar, they must be trained and qualified to hold a personal licence. The same does not apply to the person granting the premises licence to the property. To me, that seems counterintuitive and is a matter which could be very easily resolved without having to create something from scratch.
The irony is that sales of alcohol in the off-trade—supermarkets—overtook the sale of alcohol from the on-trade—pubs and clubs—some four years ago. The price of drinks in bars is too high for most people to get drunk and pre-loading with cheaper drinks bought for consumption from the off-trade, where training and supervision are almost non-existent, is where many of the problems occur. The late-night levy effectively remains a form of additional taxation on some businesses which operate during the evenings and night time. The fact that, since its creation in 2011, only a handful of the 350 local authorities in England and Wales have introduced a late-night levy, while others have issued consultations on it but not subsequently introduced it, continues to make me wonder why the levy has been kept—particularly as councils are obliged to spend their 30% of the late-night levy share on matters tackling alcohol-related services connected to the management of the night-time economy, whereas the police have no obligation to spend their 70% on any such measures, but can spend it on anything of their choosing. I am pleased therefore that this topic is being looked at again in detail.
The introduction of minimum-unit pricing in Scotland and Wales has proved to have no discernible beneficial effect on problem drinking, as many of us suspected, but has had the effect of making alcohol more expensive to those on low incomes. I hope this experiment will dissuade any plans for a similar scheme ever to be introduced elsewhere.
Of course, overconsumption of alcohol is unhealthy, but our modern-day temperance movement needs to start acknowledging that most people have common sense and just enjoy a modest drink. In moderation, alcohol plays an important and beneficial role in the nation’s life. A society that socialises together is a stronger society. For many people, drinking provides, and has always provided, social cohesion.
We know that per capita alcohol consumption has fallen. Alcohol-related crime is down, while the number of young people consuming alcohol is down significantly and has been falling since 2004. The UK today drinks less alcohol than 16 other European nations, according to the World Health Organization. I simply ask my noble friend the Minister to always bear in mind that licensing legislation should remain concerned solely with licensing management and never become an attempt at social engineering.
Baroness Walmsley (LD)
My Lords, as with many policy areas, there are complex issues to consider when devising public policy on alcohol licensing. In devising licensing regulations, the Government must take into account the balance between the well-being of people who wish to drink alcohol in moderation in a public place and those who live nearby licensed premises, against the danger that high levels of alcohol consumption can lead to criminal activity, road accidents and domestic violence, and, indeed, costs to the health service and the police. Add to this the needs of businesses that serve alcohol as part of their legitimate business model and you have a complex picture.
It is the complexity of the decisions that need to be made at a local level that led the Select Committee to urge the Government to take action to ensure greater co-ordination between the planning and licensing functions of local authorities. This evening, this Committee has heard a passionate explanation from my noble friend Lord Foster of the reasons the committee came to that conclusion. They also recommended better training for councillors engaged in making these complex decisions so that they can adequately take all these factors into account and make decisions that are right for their local area, along with a mechanism to ensure the required co-ordination.
It is disappointing that, in the Government’s response, they appear to believe that nothing further needs to be done in this respect. Instead, we got a litany of the actions the Government are taking to provide treatment for those who abuse alcohol, with serious consequences for themselves and those around them. This is shutting the door after the horse has bolted. However, I am hearing from colleagues serving on local councils that the availability of such services has been much reduced in the last few years. The funding comes from the public health grant, which has been halved. You cannot make a loaf without flour, and the Government are expecting local authorities to do too much with too little.
Is the Minister aware that 70% of local authority funding has to be dedicated to mandatory services such as children in care, elderly people who are reliant on public funding for their care, and residential care for people with physical and learning difficulties? This means that non-mandatory services, such as drug and alcohol services and others, have had to be cut. In light of all this, what progress have the Government made on the sincere recommendation of the committee for better training of councillors and co-ordination between planning and licensing?
Although licensed premises play an important role in what is called the night-time economy and keeping town centres alive, and indeed provide a lot of jobs, particularly for young people, it is the public services that bear the costs when things go wrong. One area where things have gone wrong recently is in the behaviour of people who have been drinking to excess before boarding an aircraft. There have been a number of cases where airline staff have had to delay a flight or detain or remove a passenger to avoid not just annoyance but actual danger to other passengers. It might avoid the need for this if the sale of alcohol airside was brought within the ambit of the licensing regulations. Will the Government please reconsider their intention not to act on this?
Most licensees are responsible people and carry out their business in the interests of customers and their community, but there are some who do not. The committee recommended that any future national database of licence holders should include records of refused, suspended or revoked licences to avoid such people getting licences elsewhere unless they change their ways. Will the Government ensure this happens?
About a third of the victims of domestic violence claim that the perpetrator was under the influence of alcohol when the attack occurred. This suggests that licensees have a great responsibility to stop serving someone who has clearly had enough. I understand how difficult that is, not only to make the judgment itself but to take action and ban the person, who will undoubtedly object loudly. Is the ability of the licensee to take such difficult decisions taken into account when considering renewal of his or her licence? Is there any co-ordination between the local police, who may have to deal with offenders, and the local licensing authority? The police will know which premises are the culprits, since they will often have to deal with the consequences. Are they sufficiently well trained for this duty? On the matter of alcohol-related offending, the government response promised “a National Working Group” to reduce such offending, share good practice, trail innovative solutions and ensure that “existing licensing powers” are applied in full. Can the Minister say who sits on the working group, to whom it answers and when it will report?
As we know, there has been a large increase in the amount of alcohol bought from supermarkets—we just heard that from the noble Lord, Lord Smith—especially during the pandemic. This brings us to recommendations about the use of taxation to control excess consumption. Following years of resistance, the Government have taken welcome action on high-alcohol white cider, because of its use by alcohol abusers. However, there is more to do. I welcome the Government’s commitment to review the new alcohol duties after three years but ask the Minister what further action they plan to take—for example, by reviewing the effect of minimum unit pricing in Scotland and Wales. In doing so, will they always bear in mind the needs of those licensed businesses which serve alcohol to moderate drinkers with or without a meal? They are legitimate businesses and their profits are already under a great deal of pressure.
The temporary pavement licensing scheme is to be made permanent through the levelling-up Bill. That is all very well—we all like a drink in the open air when the weather is fine—but what do local authorities get out of this extension of the premises of commercial businesses into the pavement area which they own and have a duty to clean? Will the bars pay a fee or increased business rates for the privilege of extending premises from which they make money? Local authorities are desperate for cash; might it not be a good idea to help them out a bit here?
I support what the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, said about the danger of obstructions on the pavement to people with disabilities, particularly visually impaired people. I recently had to speak to the manager of my local Co-op, in the interests of local visually impaired people, about no less than four large free-standing advertisements on the pavement outside the shop.
I turn to access. Recently, a former colleague put a photograph on her Facebook page of her disabled husband in his wheelchair outside a new local restaurant. Unfortunately, there was no way he could get inside. She went in to ask the manager what arrangements they had made for disabled customers, and they had not made any. I got the impression that he was not too polite either. I am sure that this is not typical of managers of licensed premises and I realise that some premises might be difficult to make accessible, but they will lose customers if they do not adapt. It is quite wrong that they do not make every effort. I would like to see an access and facilities statement as a requirement in licence applications and renewals. Can the Minister say what progress has been made on the review of Part M of the building regulations regarding access if, as they say, the Licensing Act is “not the appropriate vehicle”?
Finally, the committee recommended that the late-night levy should be reviewed in consultation with the trade and the local community. It says that it is a blanket measure that may not be appropriate everywhere. When will the Government respond to this recommendation? As I understand it, they have not done so yet.
Licensed premises contribute a good deal to local economies, provide jobs and allow us all to go out, relax and enjoy ourselves—all of us, not just those with working legs. I am a great believer in a bit of joy, so I hope the Minister in responding to this debate will have inclusive joy for everyone in mind.
Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, on her report. Many of my questions will echo those she set out in opening this short debate. I do not really have any interests to declare, other than that I served on the licensing committee of a local authority many years ago and that I sit, and have in the past heard licensing appeals, as a magistrate, although that is a very rare occurrence. Nevertheless, I recognise the expertise demonstrated in this short debate.
Clearly, the inquiry did not focus on the impact of Covid-19 on licensing, but it is fair to say that its impact on our hospitality sector and licensed premises has been profound. The adaptions that were made to ensure people could enjoy licensed entertainment safely during the pandemic have acted as a reminder of the importance of this sector to our everyday lives. It is also important that we get things right in minimising alcohol-related harms while supporting a vibrant night-time economy.
It is clear from this report and the government response that we still have some way to go. Ensuring that our licensing and planning systems work well together despite what the Government describe as differing objectives seems to be something that should be worked on further; this should include effective local authority training on licensing that improves outcomes. Training for police officers on licensing and issues impacting the night-time economy has also been welcomed by the Government, who must play their role in ensuring that this training package is introduced as soon as possible and regularly reviewed to ensure that it complies with regulations.
The Government stated in their response to the report that they were establishing a national working group to bring together policing and licensing partners with a focus on police-led interventions to reduce alcohol-related offending. What progress has been made on setting up this working group?
The report also highlights clear shortcomings in equality of access to licensed premises. The Government have noted the legal routes available when premises do not comply with equalities law. It also points out that the EHRC has a role in monitoring how the Act is being complied with in particular sectors and can take action where it is considered necessary. Does the Minister feel that cultural change needs to be encouraged—by this, I mean greater acceptance and encouragement of people with disabilities attending licensed premises? If so, how will the Government work to support bringing about such change to ensure that, rather than taking action against premises that do not comply, we are encouraging premises to comply because it would be in their own interests?
The report mentions the late-night levy and issues with its current application. The Government recently consulted on the late-night levy with the consultation period ending around six weeks ago. Do they yet have a timetable for their response?
Finally, the Government did not provide a full response to the committee’s recommendations on a national database of personal licence holders. Has there been any progress on this since the Government’s response was published in November? The report covers a large number of issues within licensing and our night-time economy, not all of which I have covered.
Although most people drink alcohol in a sensible, responsible way, it is clear that there are persistent problems with the way some people behave because they drink too much. We hope that by implementing these small changes this harm can be minimised. I conclude by endorsing the sentiments laid out by the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Hindhead, about managing alcohol because the vast majority of people enjoy a drink and going out with friends and it is very much a cornerstone of the way many people live their lives. Nevertheless, this is an opportunity which I hope the Government will fully embrace when implementing these changes.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Sharpe of Epsom) (Con)
My Lords, I start by congratulating my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering on securing this important debate. I am very well aware of her long-standing interest in this topic. I also thank all noble Lords who have participated for their contributions. I echo the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, in agreeing with my noble friend Lord Smith that the vast majority of people enjoy responsible drinking, and I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, that I often drink with great joy and will do very soon, I hope.
The Government recognise that the majority of people drink responsibly and enjoy alcohol as part of socialising, as has been noted, but we also recognise the significant contribution that the alcohol industry makes to the economy and the job market, as all noble Lords mentioned.
Despite some encouraging trends, we know that the harms associated with alcohol remain too high. Appropriate regulation is therefore essential. We believe that the Licensing Act sets out a clear and effective national framework for regulating licensable activities, while allowing considerable local autonomy. It strikes the right balance between providing safeguards to prevent nuisance, crime and disorder, while recognising the important contribution that licensed premises make to thriving night-time economies. Having said all that, we keep the Act under review to ensure that the regime remains fit for purpose and meets emerging challenges. We work closely with licensing practitioners and the alcohol industry to achieve this.
As your Lordships are aware, in 2017 a House of Lords Select Committee carried out post-legislative scrutiny of the Act. Last year the House of Lords Liaison Committee carried out further scrutiny, so I offer my thanks to everyone involved in that work. The Government have carefully considered the recommendations that the Liaison Committee made in its detailed and thoughtful report last year, and I will update your Lordships on work that the Government have been doing in connection with the reports.
Since the publication of the original report in 2017, the Government have worked to reinforce expectations that licensing and planning should work effectively together. The then Minister for Crime and Policing wrote to licensing authorities to reinforce this expectation. We held workshops and published a revision of the Section 182 guidance, making mention of the relationship between licensing and planning systems. I will come back to both of those things.
In response to the Select Committee’s original recommendation to extend all provisions of the Licensing Act 2003 to airside premises, the Government held a call for evidence, because we of course agree that disruptive incidents caused by excessive alcohol consumption at airports or on aeroplanes are unacceptable. However, as noted in the Government’s response to the call for evidence published in December 2021, the information and evidence submitted did not make a compelling case for extending the provisions. We therefore do not intend to revisit that decision. We were impressed with the information provided following the call for evidence on the voluntary measures already under way by airside premises and airport authorities.
The Liaison Committee expressed concern that removing the GOV.UK licence application system without a replacement system being in place would cause significant difficulties. The Government agree. Your Lordships will be pleased to know that the Cabinet Office has extended the provision of the licensing service for two years, until the end of March 2025. The Government Digital Service will continue to support the online licensing service during this period and is working closely with government departments with an interest in this service. It is exploring options for a long-term solution that meets the needs of licensing authorities and users. At the same time, it is exploring options for a register of licence holders.
I will get into some of the specific points that have been raised, with perhaps a little more detail on one or two of the things that I have already mentioned. With regard to co-ordination between licensing and planning, the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill will, as has been noted, modernise our planning system and put local people in charge of it, so that it delivers more of what communities want. The Government acknowledge that co-ordination between planning and licensing is important. Planning authorities are involved in licensing applications in their role as a responsible authority under the Licensing Act, but the systems are separate and have different objectives and approaches. The powers are there to enable planning and licensing to work together to support the needs and aspirations of local communities. We do not intend to introduce an additional mechanism.
My noble friend Lady McIntosh made very considered and useful points, particularly regarding agents of change, but these relate to planning rather than the Licensing Act, which is the regime under discussion today. Our response, to both the original report and the subsequent follow-up, has set out our commitment to working with partners to support efforts to improve how these systems work together on the ground. We continue to do that, building on our previous workshops and the clear expectations set out by previous Ministers in this regard. I will obviously share the detailed points my noble friend has made with the relevant department. As she will be aware, the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill, as I have said, will modernise our planning system and put local people in charge, so I will certainly take back the points that have been made on that.
I think the word “ambiguity” was used with regard to words such as “effective” and “unreasonable”. As signalled by the December 2022 consultation on reforms to national planning policy, the Government will undertake a full consultation on a revised National Planning Policy Framework and proposals for national development management policies once the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill has completed its passage through Parliament. The Government agree, as I have said, that co-ordination between the planning and licensing regimes is crucial to protect these businesses in practice. That is why, in December 2022, the Home Office published a revised version of the guidance under Section 182—which I have already referred to—of the Licensing Act 2003, cross-referencing the relevant section of the National Planning Policy Framework for the first time. Combined with our wider changes in the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill, we will make sure that our policy results in better protections for affected businesses and delivers on the agent of change principle in practice.
As regards planning balance, we recognise that raising awareness of this principle, how it can be applied and how it should work in practice are vital in ensuring that the two systems work together at a local level. We will therefore continue to work together with key partners and experts in this area and will continue to hold detailed discussions with them in a workshop setting in June. These discussions will inform what more we can do to further strengthen the licensing guidance, as well as asking practitioners directly what they would find helpful from us.
To go back to the words “effective”, “suitable”, and “unreasonable” being potentially ambiguous, these terms appear frequently in legislation and accompanying guidance. Obviously, circumstances will be different in every case; no law could precisely prescribe what should or must happen in every case. It is for Parliament to legislate to set out the principles, which are applied very much on a case-by-case basis.
My noble friend Lord Smith and others referred to the late-night levy. I am very pleased to say that the Government have delivered their commitment to consult on the level of late-night levy to be applied to late-night refreshment premises. The majority of respondents to the consultation were in favour of local authorities having the option to offer a 30% reduction to late night refreshment providers that qualify for small business rate relief. This reduction is already available in relation to premises that supply alcohol for consumption on the premises.
Now that the consultation is complete, we plan to commence the wider changes made via the Policing and Crime Act 2017 intended to make the levy more flexible for local areas, fairer to business and more transparent. We will continue to collect data on the number of areas introducing a levy via the alcohol and late-night refreshment statistical bulletin.
The night-time economy is obviously incredibly important to the nation and to a number of businesses, but we also continue to take action to improve the safety of women at night, tackle drink-spiking in licensed premises and work with partners to reduce incidents of violence in the night-time economy. To support that work further, we are working with policing and licensing partners to reduce alcohol-related offending in the night-time economy, focusing on sharing good practice, exploring innovative approaches and maximising the use of existing licensing powers.
This leads neatly on to the subject of training, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, and my noble friends Lady McIntosh and Lord Smith. Obviously, we recognise the importance of training for those involved in licensing work at every level. We continue to work closely with the Institute of Licensing and the Local Government Association to ensure that training resources are used widely and consistently, and to explore whether any additional signposting could be included in the Section 182 guidance. I am pleased to say that we will be holding a joint workshop on this issue in June, as I have already mentioned.
The police contribute to licensing decisions and can object to licence applications. In addition, the National Police Chiefs’ Council—the NPCC—remains committed to delivering a training package to all police licensing officers to improve standards and deliver a consistent approach. The NPCC lead for alcohol licensing and harm reduction, Deputy Chief Constable Scott Green of West Midlands Police, is overseeing this programme of work, working with Home Office officials, policing partners and representatives of the hospitality industry to ensure that the training meets the standards of all interested parties.
Noble Lords—among others, my noble friend Lord Holmes, the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby—have brought up the subject of access to licensed premises for disabled people. The Licensing Act regulates the sale of alcohol and should not be used to control other aspects of licensed premises as this is outside the scope of the licensing regime. The Equality Act 2010 already provides robust protections for disabled people who may encounter difficulties in accessing licensed premises.
Pubs, bars and restaurants are under a duty to make reasonable adjustments to enable disabled customers to use their premises and facilities. It is not, however, consistent with how the Equality Act is intended to work for it to set specific accessibility standards for particular industries, nor would such arrangements be workable for obvious reasons. However, we have committed to reviewing Part M of the Building Regulations. As part of our review, we have commissioned research to support it; we will publish this in due course.
I say to the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, and the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, that I would hope that all premises would strive to be as inclusive as possible. I would certainly take that into account when making personal decisions on where to visit, as I am sure the vast majority of responsible drinkers would.
The noble Lord, Lord Holmes, asked about the consultation period for licensing applications. This is being discussed as part of the levelling up Bill. There is obviously a balance to be struck between ensuring the appropriate time for consultation and helping the licensed sector. Of course, the licensed sector has suffered greatly during the pandemic, as has been noted. It is still in somewhat straitened circumstances.
Regarding minimum unit pricing, after the publication of the 2012 strategy, the then Government carried out a consultation on minimum unit pricing. The evidence was not conclusive. However, Members will be aware that MUP was the subject of a lengthy court case before subsequently being introduced in Scotland and, later, in Wales. The Government are keen to see the full findings from the formal evaluation by the Scottish Government, which we are expecting in June. We will consider those findings and report back in due course. I believe that that is the five year anniversary of the minimum unit pricing experiment in Scotland.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, pointed out, we need to be very careful with things of this sort. It seems to me, from a common-sense point of view, that this sort of process could very easily end up being a tax on the poor, which I am sure we would all rather avoid.
On wider issues, the Government are working on tackling alcohol-related harms. Preventing these requires a sustained commitment from government, local authorities, the police, health partners and businesses. There is no easy answer to tackling alcohol-related harms: all parts of the system have to work together, including early identification and intervention, treatment access and criminal justice powers. We have an ambitious programme of work in train across departments to tackle these harms.
My noble friend Lord Holmes asked about digital ID. There are currently no plans to introduce digital age verification for alcohol sales, but we are exploring what is permissible within the Licensing Act and whether the legislation should be amended. We also plan to consult on this over the next few months.
Alcohol is a recognised driver of crime, as has been noted by all noble Lords, and can adversely impact individuals, communities and services. We have seen some encouraging trends over the last few years. For example, members of the public perceiving people being drunk or rowdy as a problem in their local area nearly halved between 2009-10 and 2019-20.
Despite a reduction in alcohol-related violence over the last decade, around four in 10 violent incidents are alcohol related. This is also the case in around a third of domestic violence incidents. When thinking about their latest incident of serious sexual assault experienced, 39% of victims believed the perpetrator to be under the influence of alcohol. This increased to 49% when the incident occurred between strangers.
Work is of course under way across government to tackle alcohol-related crime. As I have said, we have focussed on equipping the police and local authorities with the right powers to take effective action. We continue to take action to improve the safety of women at night, tackle drink spiking in licensed premises and work with partners to reduce these incidents in the night-time economy.
The noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, asked about the new group on alcohol-related crime and homicide, which brings together the police and other key players. It has been established and has already held its first meeting. Beyond that, I am afraid that I do not have very much information. As and when I find more, I will make sure to share it with him.
I think that I have answered all the questions. Again, I thank my noble friend for securing this debate and all noble Lords who have contributed. We all agree that there is more to do, but I hope that I have provided reassurance that progress is being made to address the recommendations in the report and that some of the work has already concluded. The Government recognise the importance of these issues. I look forward to continued engagement and discussion on them.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)
I am grateful to everyone for their contributions, particularly my noble friend for his full response. It seems as though we have had a lot of consultations and workshops, but my noble friend will have picked up, in the mood of the Grand Committee, that we are calling for action.
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Foster, for emphasising the importance of the Select Committees and the follow-up reports of the Liaison Committee, because, particularly in this instance, they were timely reviews of the Licensing Act.
My noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond spoke very powerfully on disabled access, as did others. I think every contributor mentioned it. It is unfortunate that we have not yet achieved this; an application for a premises license is still not accompanied by a disabled access and facilities statement. It is the mood of the Committee that that should take place.
Also, the Minister referred to the review under Part M of the building regulations, but he did not actually say whether it will be extended to the accessibility of existing premises. I would be grateful, if there is an opportunity, for him to confirm that in a letter following this. My noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond also pointed out that reducing the deadline to two weeks for the licensing of premises is weakening the ability of vulnerable and disabled people to respond.
The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, asked what is in it for local authorities too. I think I remember reading somewhere that there might be an additional fee, but I am not at liberty to say that, so perhaps my noble friend the Minister could reply on that point—although I realise that it is a different department to his own.
All speakers mentioned the training, so we will obviously follow that very closely. The Minister referred to the working group which is being set up. As all speakers, I think, said they were interested in that, a signpost as to where it is would be very helpful indeed.
I am very mindful that young people’s contribution to this economy is huge. I say that having started off my working life as a waitress and my student life as a part-time barmaid—with disastrous results; I do not think I was destined to be full time. As the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, said, we are all very mindful of the fact that, during Covid, there was huge disruption there.
My noble friend Lord Smith mentioned the role of working clubs, and I am delighted to be an honorary president of Pickering Conservative club. Others, such as the Royal British Legion club, play a fantastic role in this regard, particularly in rural communities. I hope that we have strengthened the will of both the Home Office and the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities in this regard.
There was a real appetite in this debate for the agent of change principle to be enshrined on a statutory basis. We had some expert advice from the Institute of Licensing from two very powerful witnesses, so, if we achieve nothing else, we should achieve a statutory basis for that. I hope that there is still time for my noble friend Lady Scott to bring such an amendment forward. I am grateful for having the opportunity to rehearse these arguments again, and I commend the Motion.