Health: Local Healthwatch Funding

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Wednesday 19th March 2014 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the report from Healthwatch England that £10 million of the £43.5 million allocated for local Healthwatch in 2013–14 has not been used for its intended purpose.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe) (Con)]

The Government have made no assessment. We welcome transparency in funding for local Healthwatch—something we called for in response to the Francis inquiry report—and Healthwatch England’s findings are a helpful contribution to that. We remain of the view that local authorities are best placed to decide local funding arrangements based on local needs and priorities, which is why the funding made available to them is not ring-fenced for a specific purpose.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

So the noble Earl is telling the House that £10 million—almost a quarter of the money that his department allocated for local Healthwatch—has disappeared midway through the Department for Communities and Local Government to local government and not reached local Healthwatch. Was that not predictable and predicted? Why do the Government not now recognise that providing a local voice for the users of the health service is critical to the development of the health service and ensure that the funds are channelled through Healthwatch England for it to commission local services? If they cannot do that because it would require legislation, perhaps the Government could publish an indicative statement of what each local authority ought to be spending on local Healthwatch.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I would say that it is not the role of the Government to dictate what local authorities should be doing. It is up to local authorities to make judgments about what are the needs and priorities of their areas. I would also say that there cannot really be any direct comparison between the money made available by central government and the funding provided to local Healthwatch. It is not the case that £10 million has somehow disappeared. It is, rather, that councils have made local funding decisions which mean that £33.5 million was invested in local Healthwatch last year. What matters here is the transparency. That is what we very much welcome. It enables local Healthwatch to hold local authorities to account for their funding decisions and thereby, perhaps, influence them to give them a bit more money if that is required.

NHS: Clinical Commissioning Groups

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Wednesday 27th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

There are two elements to consider here. One is the target allocation, which is what NHS England is currently working on, and the other is the actual allocation—the money given to individual areas. The task for NHS England will be to decide how quickly or slowly to move from current allocations to the target. The key will be not to destabilise any NHS area in that process.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

I do not think the noble Earl answered my noble friend Lord Hunt’s Question about the discussions that have taken place between the Government and NHS England on this topic. Will he tell us what steer the Government have given on these matters?

[Earl Howe]

We give no steer. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, the principles on which NHS England should operate are clearly of concern to Ministers—namely, equal access for equal need, the need to take account of health inequalities in an area, and not destabilising the NHS. We also believe that NHS England should be transparent in whatever it does. Those are legitimate concerns for Ministers, but we do not seek to steer NHS England in any particular direction.

NHS: Clinical Commissioning Groups’ Funding of Treatment

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Tuesday 12th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

They can appeal to the clinical commissioning group itself in the first instance under what is known as an individual funding request. That request has to be considered rationally and transparently. If the request is turned down, the reasons must be published.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, 55 years ago—

[Baroness Wall of New Barnet (Lab)]

My Lords, as chair of one of the many trusts that are in financial difficulty—

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

I suggest that we hear from my noble friend Lord Harris.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, 55 years ago, I had my tonsils removed on the National Health Service. Had that not taken place and I now needed that procedure as an adult, according to figures from the Royal College of Surgeons I would be extremely unlikely to have them removed in the area in which I live—Haringey—but 22 times more likely to have the same procedure carried out in the Isle of Wight. Can the Minister explain why this Government’s arrangements facilitate that extraordinary postcode lottery, which means that there is no equity of treatment across the National Health Service?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, what the noble Lord calls the postcode lottery is, as he knows, nothing new. That is why Sir Bruce Keogh, the medical director of the NHS, has commissioned a project to engage professional bodies, particularly the Royal College of Surgeons, to develop clinical commissioning guidance, in particular, where there is unwarranted variation in the rates of elective surgical intervention. They are currently looking at 28 common types of surgical intervention with more topics under development, and commissioning guidance will ensue from that work stream.

Health: Local Healthwatch Organisations

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Tuesday 5th November 2013 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the number of local Healthwatch bodies whose budgets are less than the amount that has been allocated to the relevant local authorities for that purpose.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have made no assessment. We believe that local areas are best placed to make funding decisions to ensure that local needs and circumstances are best taken into account. In total, we have provided £43.5 million to local authorities for funding Healthwatch this year. We believe that transparency on funding is important. We will be requiring each local Healthwatch to publish the funding it receives from local government in its annual report.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for that response. I am, however, amazed that he says that he has no direct information on this matter. Is he aware that at least 23 local Healthwatch organisations have budgets lower than those of their predecessor organisation and that one of them—the one covering the Mid Staffordshire area—has a budget 19% lower than its predecessor LINk organisation? Are the Government nonchalant about how this money is being spent and about how patients are to be represented at a local level because they want to ensure that there is no vociferous view from patients about the scandalous way in which local health services are deteriorating as a result of both the top-down reorganisation that this Government have imposed and the real-terms cuts in budgets that have taken place?

[Earl Howe]

No, my Lords. As the report from Robert Francis identified, the patient voice has to be at the heart of the health and care system, and Healthwatch plays a crucial role in supporting that as the new consumer champion for health and social care. It is very easy to get fixated on the amount of money that is going into Healthwatch. One additional consideration could be the investment that a local authority may be making in other areas to ensure that the voice of service users and the public is heard—for example, through the voluntary and community sector. Surely what matters are the outcomes that are achieved for service users and the quality of those services.

Emergency Services: Paramedics

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Wednesday 15th May 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the London Ambulance Service has advised that the article in the Sunday Times was slightly misleading, in that the two members of staff who attended that particular patient were student paramedics in their third and final year of training and so were sufficiently qualified to work unsupervised. It is inaccurate to call them “unqualified”. The issue in this case was that, despite their qualifications and experience, the crew did not act in accordance with their training or the procedures that were laid down. That has been acknowledged by the London Ambulance Service, which has said that it believes that the failings are not reflective of the hundreds of ambulance staff who provide a high level of patient care to Londoners every day.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, the Minister has suggested that, on the issue raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner of Parkes, it is really down to the management of ambulance trusts to make all those decisions. There is widespread concern around the country about the delays in ambulances reaching emergency cases. For example, I am told that the police now find that they are the first responders and end up having to take people to hospital. Is this a problem with the management of ambulance trusts or is it about the level of resources being made available by commissioners for emergency services and ambulance services?

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord is quite right that certain areas of the country have seen unacceptable delays in ambulance response times—I am aware of two trusts in that regard. However, this is not an issue around a lack of trained paramedics. Projections by the Centre for Workforce Intelligence show that there is a secure supply of paramedics until 2016. The College of Paramedics has stated that training posts on courses are always filled and, currently, 900 ambulance technicians are training to become paramedics. We are seeing an increase in paramedic numbers, which is encouraging.

Health and Social Care Act

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I intend to meet some of the royal colleges, and I have met one already. I do not feel that a full-scale consultation is appropriate because the Government’s policy has not changed. It is the wording of the regulations that has given rise to anxiety. I therefore think that, having taken on board, as I hope I have, all the concerns that have been raised, a clarification of the regulations is all that is necessary and there is no need to consult on the policy yet again.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, is it not the case that the Government have form on producing regulations that are virtually incomprehensible as far as the lay reader is concerned, particularly in respect of these health service changes? We had the incident with Healthwatch only a few weeks ago. Even though there is a short timescale, is it therefore not imperative that there is proper consultation to make sure that whatever emerges reflects the very fine and helpful words that the Minister has given us this afternoon? Will he also tell us whether Ministers ever read these draft regulations before they are laid before the House?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, it is my intention to issue an invitation to noble Lords to join me in a meeting so that we can discuss these matters. I am very happy to do that over the coming days. The answer to the second question is yes. We read these regulations in conjunction with the Explanatory Memorandum and the line-by-line interpretation that we have also published in this case which make it crystal clear that these regulations do no more and no less than reflect the law and the Government’s policy. However, others have chosen to misinterpret the regulations, and that was something that I could not predict.

NHS: Private Companies

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I can tell my noble friend that the Government intend to lay these regulations shortly.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, it is gratifying that the private sector will be expected to pay corporation tax. However, can the Minister tell us how the private sector will make an appropriate and proper contribution to meet the needs of a full and broad range of training within the NHS, given that in some instances it will not be providing a full range of services?

NHS Bodies and Local Authorities (Partnership Arrangements, Care Trusts, Public Health and Local Healthwatch) Regulations 2012

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Tuesday 5th February 2013 Lords Chamber

I conclude with the issue on which I started: public perception, understanding, and confidence in the independence of local Healthwatch. We need local Healthwatch bodies that everyone can rely on to be genuine patient representatives. I am afraid that these regulations, as presently worded, will fail to deliver that.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, I am becoming increasingly of the view that the Government have mis-sold the concept of Healthwatch. When we first started on this long journey and the Health and Social Care Bill was coming before Parliament, the Government promised that we would get an effective patient-user voice. They promised that we would have a coherent structure. They promised that Healthwatch would ensure that patients’ interests and the voice of users would be heard centrally in the new NHS structures. But that is not what we are getting.

I spent 12 years as director of the national statutory body representing patients’ interests in the NHS and I learnt a number of things during that experience, one of which was that however well argued or well informed the case made on behalf of the users of services in the National Health Service might be, it is not automatically listened to. The powerful vested interests within health militate against that. Let us be clear: there is a power imbalance between the user and the provider of the health service. There is an imbalance in information and in what they can do. For the voice of the users to become as central as repeated government policy has said it should be, that voice has to be substantial and loud. That means that the bodies representing the interests of users have to be able to make waves. They have to make people listen and, on occasion, they have to be a nuisance. That is why, when the Bill was going through Parliament, we asked repeatedly in your Lordships’ House whether Healthwatch would be able to campaign in the interests of the users of the service that they were representing.

We asked in Committee, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, assured us that users would be able to campaign. We asked again on Report, and again the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, assured us that that would be the case—Healthwatch would be able to campaign in support of the interests of local health service users. As is widely known, I defer to no one in my respect for the noble Baroness, Lady Northover. To mis-speak once may be regarded as a misfortune; to mis-speak twice begins to look like carelessness. Either the noble Baroness was being extremely careless—repeatedly, both in Committee and on Report—or policy has changed. Despite the intent that these would be vibrant, effective, campaigning voices on behalf of patients, somewhere along the line someone in the Department of Health took a decision and said, “No, we mustn’t allow them to have any sort of effectiveness whatever. They mustn’t be allowed to make waves; they mustn’t be allowed to cause trouble; they mustn’t be allowed to be a nuisance”, because that is what the regulations do.

What are we to make of Regulation 36(1)(a)(ii)? It is unequivocal. Healthwatch will not be allowed to do anything that promotes or opposes changes in,

“the policy adopted by any governmental or public authority in relation to any matter”.

I find it difficult to know what a local Healthwatch organisation will say about the change in the organisation of, say, diabetes services in a particular area that will not be “in relation to any matter”, or determined by a “public authority” or a “policy adopted by” a public authority, so the local Healthwatch cannot object or campaign against it.

I am sure that in trying to defend the extraordinary wording that is placed before us tonight the Minister will try to tell us that paragraph (2) makes it all right. I am aware that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, is with us, so I hesitate to say that it seems to be a lot of legal gobbledegook. Apparently it will be all right if it,

“can reasonably be regarded as incidental to other activities, which a person might reasonably consider to be activities carried on for the benefit of the community in England”—

and—

“those other activities cannot reasonably be regarded as incidental to activities of the descriptions prescribed in paragraph (1)”—

which is the bit I read out.

That is very clear. I am sure that all the guidance that can emerge from the Department of Health in the future will make it clearer still. But even if you take that as trying to mitigate a blanket effect of forbidding any campaigning that might conceivably be regarded as a,

“policy adopted by … any … public authority on any matter”,

what does it actually mean? What is incidental to other activities? It is not incidental to other activities to say that the reorganisation of diabetes clinics in a particular area is inappropriate. That is what the Healthwatch organisation is there to say on behalf of local users; it is not incidental to something else that it should be doing. What is this meant to mean?

Healthwatch England, all of three hours ago, sent us its comments on the regulations. It said that they could have been worded more appropriately. There is an understatement. I wonder what it really meant. I do not think that the question is one of more appropriate wording. I wonder how much room for manoeuvre Healthwatch England had—given how independent we know that its structure enables it to be—to say what it really thought about the nonsense of the wording. It did feel strongly enough to tell us that it hoped that future regulation in statutory instruments might get it right. That is very interesting.

The definition of an institution that is a political campaigning organisation is any person carrying on or proposing to carry on activities to promote or oppose changes in any law applicable in the United Kingdom. Healthwatch England, by the definition in these regulations, is a politically campaigning organisation. Therefore, no local Healthwatch organisation will be allowed to act in support of a policy that has emerged from the national body representing patients.

I am sure that, however malign the intent was of those who drafted these regulations and of the Ministers who instructed them to do so, they did not mean them to be quite so destructive. I do not know who writes these things. I do not know what they are trying to achieve. However, we should be clear that there will not be one point of contact so that a local Healthwatch would know where to go to be given clear and consistent guidance, because the structure that the Government are creating is fragmented. Each local authority will commission an organisation to provide local Healthwatch services. Individually, around the country, people will try to interpret what the regulations mean—yet they are virtually incapable of being sensibly interpreted.

Of course, there is an answer to this. Ministers could decide, having listened, not to press on with the regulations. They could say that they should be withdrawn. There are two good reasons why they should do that. First, the regulations are appallingly drafted and in practice unworkable—and will be unworkable when they are interpreted in several hundred different ways around the country. The second good reason is that tomorrow we will hear the report on Mid Staffordshire. I suspect that one of the strongest lessons that will emerge from the report is the need for strong, local representation of the interests of local users of the health service. That means strong and effective local Healthwatch organisations. These regulations will not give us strong and effective local Healthwatch organisations, so if the Government are serious in whatever they say in response to tomorrow’s Francis report, they ought to withdraw the regulations tonight and come forward with sensible regulations that will give us the sort of local Healthwatch organisations that the country needs.

--- Later in debate ---

Noble Lords and others have read Regulation 36 and have concluded that it is incomprehensible or unworkable—or, indeed, both. In fact, Regulation 36 does something very simple. In plain terms, it says that a local Healthwatch can campaign and can speak out as part and parcel of its role as the local consumer voice. In other words, it can campaign on things that are directly connected to what local people are concerned about, based, as I have said, on robust evidence, and where the changes being campaigned on are inspired and supported by local people. Such campaigns might, or might not, have a political flavour to them. To take the example given by the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, a local Healthwatch could campaign as vociferously as it liked on the reorganisation of a diabetes service. What a local Healthwatch cannot do is conduct campaigns of a political nature where such campaigns are not connected to what local people are saying or thinking, that are not evidence-based, and that do not carry a credible degree of local support. Nor can a local Healthwatch make such campaigning its main raison d’être. Campaigning on any issue has to flow seamlessly from the local Healthwatch’s main activity, which is to act as the voice of local people and to make that voice count towards improving health and care services.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

The noble Earl has been extraordinarily helpful in telling us what Regulation 36 is meant to mean. My first question is: why does it not say that, as opposed to producing a formulation? Your Lordships are used to this sort of stuff. If every noble Lord who has spoken in this debate apart from the noble Earl has found it difficult to follow, I find it difficult to see how people around the country are going to be able to interpret this with the clarity with which the noble Earl has provided us.

Secondly, the noble Earl then said what local Healthwatch organisations can do. He said that they can campaign provided it is evidence-based and draws upon the opinions of local people. Who is to decide that? Is it, for example, the local authority, which might not like the campaign that is being mounted? Is it then going to say, “Well, you are not actually speaking on behalf of the communities you claim to be”?

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord’s first point is a fair one. I was coming on to address it as it is quite clear that at least part of the wording of these regulations has seemed complicated and unfathomable to many noble Lords. I have to acknowledge that that is the case.

To address the noble Lord’s other point, we are talking about the difference between being a genuine voice for local people and simply being an adjunct of a political party. Local Healthwatch organisations should not be swayed or influenced by the activities of any political party. They must act independently. The only influence that matters to them is that of local patients and the public in seeking ways to improve the quality of care for people.

In that sense, the regulations tie down a local Healthwatch no more and no less than any other social enterprise. The wording of the regulations has been constructed in a very similar manner to the wording applied to other social enterprises in regulations. Regulations 36(1) and (2), against which so many missiles have been hurled this evening, are designed simply to reflect the standard community benefit test.

Care Quality Commission (Healthwatch England Committee) Regulations 2012

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Wednesday 21st November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jolly]

My Lords, I will not speak at length this evening and will speak mainly of the issue of the independence of Healthwatch England. I was at the launch of Healthwatch England and met some of the members of the committee. As the noble Lord said, many come from wide and relevant backgrounds, and they were really enthusiastic about the task in hand. They represent all regions of the UK, disabilities and gender. I understand that the full committee is now appointed.

There is an undoubted need for a patient watchdog, as we have heard. Many hours were spent in debate in this Chamber, in Committee and on Report, on the Health and Social Care Bill to try to mould it as best as possible to achieve that. During that debate, some of us carried out a campaign with Ministers outside the Chamber as well as inside, but there was no acknowledgement that the siting of Healthwatch England as a committee within the Care Quality Commission would cause concern. Indeed, it was said that the connection would be beneficial to the process and result in improved channels of communication.

Those arguments are now past, and Healthwatch England is now constituted, but the secondary legislation we are discussing today is silent on the issue of independence. We are left to wonder whether that is a missed opportunity or a deliberate omission. I always look on the bright side, so let us assume that it is a missed opportunity.

We know that the chief executive officer of the CQC holds the budget for Healthwatch England. What safeguards are in place to ensure that the money is not used to support core Care Quality Commission business or, indeed, to prevent the board of the Care Quality Commission, of which the chair of Healthwatch England herself is a member, saying that the way that the Healthwatch England committee wanted to spend the allocation was not as it thought fit?

If so, where does that put both the Care Quality Commission and Healthwatch England—and, indeed, the confidence of the public in their watchdog—if a future chair of Healthwatch England goes native or a chair of the Care Quality Commission becomes overbearing? That is a reflection not on personalities or individuals but on roles and responsibilities. Both current incumbents of those positions have assured me that that could never happen, but we all know of instances where what seemed perfectly good appointments change the way that they work over time. Working arrangements honoured under one regime may not carry over to a successor.

I commend the work that Anna Bradley has done thus far in setting up the organisation and her commitment and understanding of the role. She has said:

“We will be accountable to Parliament not the CQC ... We will work with the CQC as strategic partners. Guarding that independence will be a very important aspect of my job and the committee’s job”.

As I said, Anna Bradley sits on the Care Quality Commission board as part of her role and is appointed directly by the Health Secretary. She is adamant that the patients’ champion will be fully independent from the regulator.

A set of arrangements has been developed to safeguard the independence of Healthwatch England, whose budget—£3 million in 2012-13—is determined by the Department of Health. Healthwatch England will have full editorial independence over its publications; its committee will set its own priorities; and the chair will appoint the committee, ensuring that a majority are not Care Quality Commission commissioners, and oversee the work of Healthwatch England’s director, its senior officer. Any disputes between the Care Quality Commission and Healthwatch should be resolved through “open and frank discussion”, with the Department of Health responsible for resolving any intractable issues.

The Government’s intention was clear about the independence of Healthwatch England when the Bill was being debated, and it is to be regretted that that did not find its way into legislation or this secondary regulation. This organisation will be closely watched. Its relationships with partners are clearly defined in legislation. Its first chair has been absolutely explicit about its independence very early in her appointment, with the clear support of both the CEO and the chair of the hosting organisation, the Care Quality Commission.

I want Healthwatch England and local Healthwatch to succeed. We owe that to all patients across the country. With all the changes working their way through the NHS and the care system—it is essential that, despite its name, we should not forget that Healthwatch watches after health and care—it is imperative that it is working as efficiently as possible to its agenda, not that of the many stakeholders. For the sake of the public, those in receipt of care, it must succeed.

I would welcome reassurance from my noble friend that the lack of regulation or independence will not impede Healthwatch England’s independent operation and an indication of how that can be guaranteed.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, I am pleased to have the opportunity to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, on this Prayer. She has highlighted the weakness in the Government’s position. I am confident that the people who have set up Healthwatch England are of good will and that they intend and wish it to work; that Anna Bradley will be an excellent person as chair of Healthwatch England; that the outgoing chair of the Care Quality Commission is committed to making it work; and that the chief executive of the Care Quality Commission is committed to making it work. I even believe that Ministers in the Department of Health are committed to making it work.

The problem is that we are provided with a framework of regulation which does not guarantee that in future. One or two appointments down the road, with a new leadership of the Care Quality Commission and, perhaps, with different Ministers at the Department of Health, how will those things be ensured, especially if budgets remain tight and Healthwatch England starts to be effective and makes criticisms which are difficult for Ministers—or, worse still, in this context, for the Care Quality Commission? That is when those problems may arise.

That is why, when the Bill was passing through this House, there was so much concern about the importance of independence for the Healthwatch structure. My concern is that, given that the legislation has passed, this is a wasted opportunity to make it stronger.

One of the lessons that is expected to come from the Mid-Staffs inquiry relates to independence. The report is expected to identify the systemic failure of organisations to focus primarily on the needs of the patients of that hospital. Because each was looking at its own area, nobody was taking the step back to say, “How does this work from the point of view of patients?”. That is where Healthwatch should come in and be influential: to cut through the complicated organisational structures which the Health and Social Care Act has bequeathed to the NHS. That is why the simple issue of how it preserves its independence is so vital.

When the Bill was going through Parliament, the noble Earl held a meeting to discuss how Healthwatch England should work. He made the point that there would be valuable synergies from Healthwatch England being located within the Care Quality Commission. He did not stress, but it was clearly part of the equation, that there would also be some useful cost savings associated with that. The cost savings could be achieved in a whole variety of ways. It would be possible to have an agency agreement whereby some of the back office functions were provided by the Care Quality Commission or any of the plethora of structures that the Health and Social Care Act has bequeathed to the NHS. Similarly, because the duty of co-operation exists, you would hope that those synergies could be activated without the need for the Healthwatch organisation to be subservient to the Care Quality Commission. It would have been possible in these regulations to create a structure which, while preserving the general framework of the Act, would ensure that there was independence.

If we look at the regulations that we have before us, we see a number of flaws. First and foremost, for example, is the size of the Healthwatch England committee. Potentially, this will be a committee of as few as six members. I appreciate that in the initial instance it is larger than that, because people of goodwill are trying to make this structure work. However, in three, four or five years’ time there may not quite be the same atmosphere or there may be a feeling that the wings of Healthwatch England need to be clipped back. In any event, with six to 12 members it is going to be extremely difficult to ensure that there really is the geographical diversity that is necessary; the coverage of all the many major areas of special need that exist as far as health and social care is concerned; and proper recognition of ethnicity and gender within that. Again, the initial membership has provided a reasonable attempt to achieve that diversity, but where is the guarantee of that in the future?

I know there is a feeling that small boards work well. The noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, who is not in her place on this occasion, has talked to us glowingly about the value of having small, dynamic boards to run organisations but this is a different sort of organisation. It is supposed to be one that represents the generality of the interests of patients across the whole country and which derives its authority from what is happening in local Healthwatch organisations around the country—the 150-odd local organisations that will exist. It is therefore not appropriate to have a small board in such a case, as it is not the same sort of structure.

Then we have the rather strange arrangements for the appointment process. In the first instance, the chair of Healthwatch England has to get the approval of the chair of the Care Quality Commission before appointments can be made. The future arrangements are that the chair will make the appointments directly but let us be clear: the chair of Healthwatch England is a Secretary of State appointment and has the potential to be the poodle of the Department of Health. I have been in the position of being in charge of the organisation representing patients and I remember successive Secretaries of State, from two parties, making attacks on the organisation because we were being effective and raising issues that were uncomfortable.

Under those circumstances, can we be satisfied with a future arrangement whereby the Secretary of State solely makes the appointment of that individual, who then appoints all the other members of the Healthwatch England committee? In the initial stage, you have a double lock where the chair of the Care Quality Commission gets involved but in future you will have someone who might be appointed as a poodle or to muzzle the watchdog nature of Healthwatch England appointing individuals who are, no doubt, like-minded. That is why the arrangements are strange.

We then have the provision for suspending members, which is set out here. Presumably, the suspension is different from disqualification but the Secretary of State may dispense with the chair of Healthwatch England for a variety of reasons, which includes,

“failing to carry out those duties”.

Who is going to determine what those duties should be? Essentially, we are being told that the Secretary of State will decide what he or she thinks is appropriate for Healthwatch England to be carrying out. Again, the chair then has similar powers in respect of individual members. I make a specific request of the Minister: that in his reply he spells out absolutely that it will not be appropriate for either the chair or the members of Healthwatch England to be suspended from their membership if they are pursuing their interpretation of what is in the interests of patients and their organisations, and the people that they represent.

NHS: Accident and Emergency Services

Lord Harris of Haringey Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My noble friend makes some important points. As a general point, it is important to say that each ambulance service should plan to provide appropriate resources to meet local demand, because demand varies according to where you are in the country. Planning assumptions in meeting that demand should take into account the likelihood of severe traffic congestion. Plans of that kind may well include resources in addition to traditional ambulance provision, for example, using rapid response vehicles and motorbikes as well as utilising staff such as community paramedics or emergency care practitioners.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

My Lords, how many accident and emergency departments in London does the Minister expect to close in the next four years? If he does not know the answer, can he say who is responsible for that and how they are accountable for making a strategic judgment across London about the level of accident and emergency services?

[Earl Howe]

The premise behind the noble Lord’s question is that it is automatically worse to have fewer A and E departments in an area. I beg to disagree with that premise. In serious or complex cases, the noble Lord will know that patients need to access exactly the right care, so it is often better and safer for them to travel further to see specialists in major centres than to go to a local hospital. Although it may be closer, it may not have the right specialists, the right equipment or sufficient expertise in treating patients with their condition. The prime example of that has been stroke care in London, where 32 centres were reduced to, I think, eight and there has been a dramatic reduction in the number of deaths following admission.