Future of Seaside Towns

Lord Griffiths of Burry Port Excerpts

Monday 1st July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, I cannot possibly concur with the idea that those on the Front Benches opposite look in the slightest bit bored; they have shown an alarming interest in everything that has happened up to now—I say that only because I am going to get my blows in in a moment and I want to soften them up. I am truly grateful that this offbeat subject—for it is not central to the thinking of government at this time or in the public domain—has been brought before us in this focused way and for the wide variety of contributions that have added to the interest of the occasion, with many of them being made by members of the committee. Having been born by the sea, I am delighted that the seaside has commanded this level of report and recommendation.

However, I have been struggling for some kind of controlling idea—something that will allow us to pull all these heterogenous things together. When it is the northern powerhouse, we can strategise; we can have the high-speed train going up and the major cities that we want to bring together. We have some idea of gravitas, critical mass, economic goals and so on. We have a strategic idea that allows us to do our thinking. However, when it comes to the scattering of all these seaside communities right around the coast, it is much harder to create a picture of them. The formula-based approach has been referred to more than once, which I guess is what it has to be. Each one will raise its own questions, offer its own possibilities and demand its own attention. I can see things happening only in that sort of way.

Even when we have recognised the difficulty of having a controlling concept, we must then look at the fact that it is not just a question of getting people to come to the seaside for two weeks in August again like it used to be, or even tarting up what was once nicely done and has now fallen into desuetude; it is multifaceted, and the factors will vary place by place.

Certainly, one aspect of this integrated picture that I see for each place will involve transport and broadband. That is mentioned very clearly in the report. I cannot see how there can be a solution to the problems of seaside towns that does not give attention to adequate transport links. I taught in a place called Lampeter, and they shut the railway line—doubtless this Beeching stuff—the minute after I had taken the last train; I could not get home again afterwards. It undoubtedly caused a number of townships to wither away out there in Cardiganshire.

So transport is key and we have to find a way to look at each place and say how the needs of that place are served from the transport point of view. There will be various solutions according to the township, and the same with broadband. It ought to be possible for start-ups to happen in these distant places just as easily as at the Old Street roundabout if broadband is good. My daughter runs a very competent consultative business from the south of France with her computer. Before that she did it in Cambodia, and before that she did it in London. It is the same business—on her lap, at her kitchen table—and she has clients all over the world. So I cannot see why Whitley Bay cannot do the same—or, if I may add my voice to the Blackpool chorus, Blackpool either. They are fundamental, it seems to me, and they are adequately presented in the report.

Similarly, housing has been eloquently attested to by the noble Lord, Lord Best, whom we hear on this subject from time to time, as have health and education. My noble friend Lady Bakewell talked about human capital, about educational needs and skilling people. I had a few remarks to make about the arts, but she said it all so I will not, except that I would like to include in my remarks the fact that Cleveland has a wonderful pier. Shame on her that she did not mention it. Piers are an extraordinary characteristic of our seaside towns that make each one different from every other one. All in all, I would say that we have a collection of seaside towns to rival anywhere in the world. All those aspects are important, as are the private and public financing and support for these things. It is not one or the other; it is both.

It is marvellous that a committee of this House can bring the noble Lords, Lord Smith and Lord McNally, together in what sounds like an abiding friendship, seeing the world in the same way. If all those aspects are important—and all are mentioned in the report—and if it is difficult to have a controlling idea to hold all that stuff together, we can only pity the Government as they try to respond to all this in a coherent way. I think that there is a lot of good will in the response, but it would perhaps have taken a chapter per town to respond in a way that would have satisfied us. So I do not think that the Minister should have come here expecting to have an easy ride tonight, because he is attempting a very difficult task.

So much for all that. I have to say that I have been confused by all the different initiatives: the Coastal Communities Alliance; the Coastal Culture Network; Creative People and Places; this, that and the other. I do not know how they all work together—I do not know whether they do all work together. I do not know how they outbid one another or compete with one another, or what we can pull from them. Or is it that, as one contributor to this debate said, if they get help from this, it is at the expense of losing something from that?

I was not able, from reading all this stuff, to build my picture. Possibly in my remarks noble Lords are sensing the disaggregation that is the result of my failure to master the brief—but Blackpool certainly stood up and asked to be counted. I do not want to repeat points, but perhaps the Minister would answer the question about the Civil Service jobs in the centre of Blackpool and the Ministry of Justice possibly relocating the courts. If those buildings and operations stand in the way of a potential coherent response to the needs of Blackpool, we should have a response to those questions.

I do not think I have seen it said anywhere, but this report concerns England, does it not? The devolved Governments look after their own stuff, so I am going to introduce something which I may need special pleading for. I sat next to the noble Lord, Lord McNally, on the tube and he told me about Fleetwood and the visit he made there. He said that Burry Port is held up by the people of Fleetwood as an example of what can be done. I could not resist the opportunity to say that in this debate.

Burry Port shares many characteristics with Berwick. When I grew up in a brickyard, my neighbours on one side were the smelting companies—zinc, copper, lead and silver—there was a soap factory on the other and there were power stations in front of and behind me. There were endless rows of trucks taking anthracite coal to the docks, where the gantry cranes would load the coastal shipping to all parts of the British Isles. If I were brought up in the same place now, I could see the fishing boat-bobbing sea—it is 200 yards from where I grew up. My dear friends, for anybody who has not been to Burry Port, may that be the one thing you take away from this debate.

Also in that far-flung part of the British Isles, with perhaps more coastline than any other, are Cardiganshire, Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire. There is also that wonderful educational institution that I have just fallen in love with: the University of Wales Trinity Saint David, which has campuses in Swansea, Lampeter and Carmarthen and incorporates working relationships with further education, skilling people to be beauticians, farmers or craftsmen as well as taking degrees and higher degrees.

Unless we move innovatively towards those co-ordinated and multifaceted responses to these terrible problems of the modern age, which refuse to be captured and defined, we do not have a chance. The seaside towns of our country are a challenge to us. They are an essential characteristic of who and what we are; each demands to be looked at in its own right and we will do ourselves a great service in the eyes of our fellow countrypeople and the world if we can find a solution that brings beauty back to those places that are now faded and speak more of yesterday than today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I thank the noble Baroness, but I was not saying that in the hope of getting an invitation. It is most kind. If I am able to come, I will be there—and if any other invitations are forthcoming, I will look at them in the same positive spirit. I apologise to any towns that may be offended by my missing their coastal arts festivals. I was aware that there are festivals in other parts of the country, such as Whitby and Brighton, although perhaps they are not as all-encompassing as those of Cheltenham, Chalke Valley and so on.

I have already referred to a point where I am not in total agreement with the noble Lord, Lord Best. He quite fairly said, though, that we have been taking action against rogue landlords: bad landlords are now subject to the Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Act. That was the Karen Buck legislation, which was taken forward with government support and all-party approval. I will ask officials to look at the specific point he made about Blackpool. I can see the challenge, there, if it takes in areas that are perhaps wealthier, such as Lytham.

The noble Lord, Lord Knight, referred to Fergus’s school reunion—or non-school reunion, as it turned out. As somebody who has holidayed in Weymouth, I was a little surprised—but perhaps I have been seeing it in warm weather, which always makes a difference. When I was there for a few days last summer, the harbour area seemed to be full of young people. I made use of the walk along the disused railway that goes down to Portland Bill, and the place seemed to be thriving; but obviously, I have seen only a snapshot. Perhaps I will have a chance for a longer chat with the noble Lord. I agree with his points about education and the importance of skills. It occurred to me that we do not do enough in this country on the transferability of credits, when compared with the USA—or, indeed, credits for work, which make a difference too. There is perhaps more to be done there. I agree with the noble Lord about the importance of a place-based approach.

The noble Lord, Lord Beith, is a great advocate for his home town, which he represented, along with other towns, for so long. He is quite right that this is not just about tourism. He talked about the lack of a university in Berwick, which is certainly true. There are no perfect parallels, but it occurs to me that it may be worth looking at the university in Falmouth, which operates partly alongside the University of Exeter. It has been a university since 2012 and has really made a big difference to Falmouth. I will be there later this week when I go down to Cornwall. The noble Lord is also right about the issues of remoteness, hospitals and so on.

My noble friend Lady Wyld spoke once again about Blackpool and, indeed, Fleetwood. She made a point which is really important—that what we should be doing is looking at doers, not the done-to. I think that is the governmental approach: it is the approach on neighbourhood planning, and we should be carrying that forward here. Governments should be enabling: they should be setting a framework and providing finance to people locally who are trusted—and then we should step back. There may be occasions when things go wrong, but they are going wrong with people who are expert and know what they are doing locally, and I think that that is important. We should be empowering, not micromanaging.

The noble Lord, Lord Pendry, spoke about Broadstairs and Ramsgate—a somewhat remote part of Kent, although Broadstairs has Dickens connections, so some ideas may already have been taken up locally there. He talked about the challenge of overseas travel, which certainly made a difference to the traditional seaside holidays that we can probably all remember from our younger days. Now we are much more widely travelled in Europe, which has made a big difference to the normal holiday—although people do go for long weekends, particularly in the winter months. We need to look at that particular point. The noble Lord, Lord Pendry, also raised the issue of a Cabinet post for tourism. It is well above my pay grade to opine on that, especially at the moment, but I will take the point back: I can see that it was a serious and valid one.

The noble Lord, Lord Mawson, also referred to the doers and not the done-to, and the importance of the Government being enablers. He referred to Skegness, Butlins and the seasonal nature of much of the work. I agree that that is a challenge that we have got to deal with: it has got to be fundamental to the way we take this forward. The noble Lord talked about Ferryside in Wales; I am sorry to spoil the point about Burry Port being such a success, but I should say that, although the Coastal Communities Fund is a national fund, the parts of it that apply to Wales are administered not from here but from Cardiff, just as they would be administered from Edinburgh in Scotland. He said, “Trust them and back them”, and I quite agree.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner of Worcester. I found myself in almost total agreement with him, as I often do, about Beecham. When one is asked about who one would invite to a dinner party, I often think that I would ask Lord Beecham just to find out what possessed him to come up with his cuts.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port]

Sorry?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

I am sorry; I meant Dr Beeching. It was a Freudian slip. The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, is not in that category; I exempt him. It was Dr Beeching who came up with the 1961 report.

I agree with the point about the Whitby service. Last year, I got to Whitby using public transport from Scarborough. It is an excellent town; I had the pleasure of going to Ayckbourn’s Stephen Joseph Theatre before getting the bus to Whitby, which took me through Robin Hood’s Bay. I then used the heritage line, which was also excellent. I agree that Whitby has been left without a valuable connection to the south. It is worth mentioning how good some of these heritage railways are, such as the line from Cromer and Sheringham to Holt; I think that the Swanage line and the Paignton line, which goes via Greenway House—Agatha Christie’s home and a National Trust property—on the way to Kingswear, were also referred to. They do a lot of good.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, mentioned the heritage railways and Whitby; I congratulate him on not being steeped in blood like everybody else because he was there objecting. He also talked about chambers of commerce, which I will certainly feed into the system. I think that they may be involved with some LEPs anyway, but it is a point worth emphasising. I agree with him on the importance of the voluntary sector and programmes such as “Heartbeat” in providing tourism opportunities. Some £1.8 billion of public money has been put into Digital UK’s superfast broadband programme; I am sure that the shared prosperity fund will look at this issue as well.

The noble Lord, Lord Lennie, referred to the position in Whitley Bay and asked about the Big Local. That is funded not by the Government but by the Big Lottery Fund. It is clearly worth while but if the problem continues, that is a matter for the fund. Again, I went to Whitley Bay not long ago on a trip to Tynemouth. I got there by public transport, which was not too difficult; the metro system was pretty excellent.

The noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, made a plea for ports. Of course, some ports are successful; not all are in decline. I know that Felixstowe and Tilbury, which is inland—not inland, but on the river—are massively successful. Again, public transport to Tilbury is pretty good but I take the noble Baroness’s point. Newhaven is covered by an enterprise zone, which provides an opportunity for particular policy advantages. I think she mentioned Whitehaven, which does not benefit particularly from tourism. It is good that we do not think only about tourist resorts; I thank her for that point.

The noble Baroness, Lady Valentine, spoke about Blackpool and “The Lion and Albert”. From memory, I do not think it ended well for Albert, but we want it to end well for Blackpool. The housing zone is certainly something to look at; the town deal for Blackpool is being looked at. I cannot make any promises about that but I can say that Blackpool is a challenge that the Government take very seriously. It is close to all our hearts; we all know Blackpool, which is uniquely British and certainly worth saving.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shutt, for what he said about VisitBritain. It committed £40 million to the Discover England Fund, whose projects often concern coastal destinations, between 2016 and 2020 so, in its defence, it does quite a lot. We have also spent money on US connections to D-day and the “Mayflower”. I think the noble Lord referred to Mrs May; she holidays in this country, as he will know, on which she is to be congratulated.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, for what he said. I agree that we perhaps need a theme although, as we have seen, this is a wide-ranging area involving a great deal of different policy. I will check on the justice courts in Blackpool. It is a valid point that I will chase up. This is multifaceted. We need to consider the changes there have been in society and carry them forward. We all want the same thing. However, this is multifaceted and I will endeavour in the letter to fill in any gaps.

I thank noble Lords for a valuable debate, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, who has helped pull it together.

Ford in Bridgend

Lord Griffiths of Burry Port Excerpts

Monday 10th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, we are grateful to the Minister for repeating what is by any standards a desultory Statement. It seemed odd from where I was sitting to hear those words coming from his mouth in particular; they seem so mealy-mouthed. After all, 1,700 people are without work and communities will be ravaged. For all the task forces, which are starting from scratch since this has all happened so suddenly, there will be a huge period of thinking and reflecting. Some of the initiatives announced in the Statement pertain to the whole of the UK, and there is little for us to rejoice about in their specific application to Wales.

This is indeed a dark day. Since the 1980s and 1990s, when traditional industries folded up—with such great consequence to Wales, as the Minister will know—it is what has been happening down the M4 corridor that in many ways has kept the economy buoyant, brought hope and replaced those traditional heavy industries that have now gone.

We must just express our deep sadness and perhaps scratch our heads a little. After all, Bridgend manufactured 620,000 engines in 2017—one every 30 seconds. The plant makes a total of five different engines to support the production of seven Ford models. These engines are exported to Germany, Spain, Russia, the USA, China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Thailand and Mexico. Bridgend also makes V6 and V8 engines for the Jaguar XJ, XF and XK. I must apologise to the House: the recent removal of cataracts from my eyes places the reading of a document at this distance in no man’s land. With glasses I cannot see it, and without glasses I cannot see it. For all that, I want simply to say that the output from Bridgend has been considerable. Undertakings were given only recently that led people to suppose and hope that there would be better days ahead. All the activities that depend on the car industry will be similarly affected.

I think we will hear from all sides of the House some bewilderment at the blanket statement that this cannot be put down to Brexit. It seems to me that the uncertainty that has been created by this long and tedious process that Members all over the House have felt to be so damaging will bring sadness of its own kind. In Securing Wales’ Future, a White Paper from the Welsh Government that appeared within a year of the referendum in collaboration with Plaid Cymru and the Labour Party in Cardiff, emphasis was placed on maintaining and preserving work opportunities and conditions, on setting ways of achieving all that and on the necessity of maintaining confidence in the jobs market.

The uncertainty has clearly had its part to play. Ford has blamed global challenges for its decision, but, as highlighted by numerous manufacturers, falling diesel sales and the impact of a potential hard Brexit are creating a perfect storm for the sector. Today’s figures, we are told, are evidence of the vast cost and upheaval Brexit uncertainty has already wrought on UK automotive manufacturing businesses and workers—not just in Bridgend, but in other places, too. Prolonged instability has done untold damage. The Secretary of State for Wales has just recently endorsed the candidature of Boris Johnson for the leadership of the Conservative Party and our eventual new Prime Minister. No clearer exponent of a hard Brexit exists than he. Consequently, faced by the increasingly likely and to be feared hard Brexit, we will not see conditions improve or create what from this side of the House we have constantly asked for—better workers’ rights, greater security in the field of work and support for communities centred on industries such as the car industry.

This is, as I began by saying, a desultory Statement about a very sad situation. We are not convinced that the Secretary of State or Her Majesty’s Government have done all that they can, and we seek reassurances from the Minister that these task forces that have been put in place and this commitment to the future will benefit Wales as much as any other part of the United Kingdom. We were sold the promise that we would lose nothing in our economy as a result of leaving Europe, that our economy would remain buoyant and that the support from Westminster to Cardiff would not see us lose a single penny. Here is the mood music created by this sad closure impending in Bridgend. We can only regret it and ask Her Majesty’s Government to rise above the conflicts among their own numbers that currently mark this moment in their history and give greater attention to the needs of workers and communities in Wales and the United Kingdom at large.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, I draw attention to the interests in my name in the register and thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. I commend the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, notwithstanding his optical challenges, for his very eloquent statement. I associate myself with almost everything he said; I will not attempt to repeat it, but the loss of the Ford Bridgend plant is huge. It is not just the 1,700 workers; it is the whole community—the subcontractors and the infrastructure that supports that factory. I agree with the GMB’s assessment that this is a disaster, not just for that area but for the UK car industry.

Following on from the final point of the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, could the Minister tell us what talks Her Majesty’s Government had with Ford in the lead-up to this announcement? What help were they able to offer Ford, which in the end proved not to be enough? How far did the Government go to prevent this happening? They had fair warning. In April, Ford warned that it would reconsider its UK investments if MPs could not agree a Brexit deal that offers a smooth departure from the EU. This really points up that Brexit is absolutely a factor in this Statement, notwithstanding the point that the Secretary of State has made. It is also another dagger in the side of the industrial strategy.

For the avoidance of doubt, can the Minister update your Lordships’ House on how the Government are getting on with negotiating the smooth exit strategy that Ford and the rest of the car industry need? How many meetings have been had in Brussels since the extension of the exit date? How many times has the Prime Minister met with anybody in Brussels to bring forward a new proposal to Parliament? Indeed, when might Parliament expect a new proposal to deliver the smooth exit that business says it needs as a minimum level? The Minister may plead that this is above his pay grade—modestly, I would suggest—but this, above all issues, is front and centre in all the decisions that his department, BEIS and all the other departments in this country and Wales are dominated by. It must be dominating his waking hours. I hope he has an answer to the question: how are you getting on with the negotiations?

I thought that the situation was bad last term, but that stasis is nothing compared to what we are seeing now. The PM, as we know, has stepped down and the Government have gone into a sabbatical of self-immolation—if you want to see what setting fire to yourself looks like, just look at what Michael Gove managed over the weekend—while Britain’s advanced manufacturing is crying out for stability and direction. In the words of the SMMT’s chief executive:

“This ongoing uncertainty is corrosive, both on the operations … and on their reputation”.


That is another reason why Brexit is causing this to happen. The reason Ford pulled out is that it is losing confidence in the UK trading environment.

Of course, it is not just automotive. A recent paper from the Royal Economic Society finds that the confusion following Brexit has caused an output loss—a cut in GDP—of 1.7% to 2.5% up to the end of 2018. Today’s announcement of a drop in GDP of 0.4% in one month is a shocking reminder, but we should not be surprised. We were warned. In fact, the ERG’s favourite economist, Patrick Minford, explained some time ago that a no-deal Brexit would see manufacturers go the same way as the coal industry. That prediction is now being priced into every industrial and commercial decision made today, and it is the workers of Bridgend who are falling foul of that today.

In the FT, the Business Secretary is quoted as saying in this context that there are “grounds for optimism”. I am sure the Minister will agree with his colleague, because Ministers have to agree with Secretaries of State, so could he please answer just this one question, if none of the others. On this rainy day, what are the grounds for optimism for the workers of Ford Bridgend?

Religious Intolerance and Prejudice

Lord Griffiths of Burry Port Excerpts

Wednesday 17th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, I can only concur with those words of the noble Lord, Lord Cormack. I thank the Minister for honouring the pledge that significant time would be made available for the debate—and, indeed, for his opening remarks, which set out the stall admirably and pointed to a number of government initiatives that we must all welcome, although we shall also want to keep an eye on them to make sure that they are doing what they are supposed to.

I admit that I stand here in some difficulty. It was refreshing to hear a different point of view from the Conservative Benches, which mitigated my sense of inadequacy as the Labour spokesman in view of the nature of the debate, especially as it concerns anti-Semitism. I have been devastated, to be honest, by the speeches of my noble friends Lord Kestenbaum and Lord Triesman. I pay them tribute for having been so frank with us, although that does not help me with my sense of devastation. We have reached a truly parlous state when esteemed Members of this House feel it necessary to speak in that way.

I have loved the Labour Party all my life: I have been a member of it for longer than I have been a Christian, for example. It was the Labour Party of the post-Second World War years that gave me all my life chances, and I have stood by the Labour Party through thick and thin—through the 1980s and all the rest. When I was a boy my Member of Parliament was Jim Griffiths, deputy leader of the Labour Party, who brought in four of the six Acts of Parliament—on national assistance, family allowances, injuries at work and national insurance—that put the welfare state on to our statute book, but who has been forgotten by everybody. So I have it in my blood, and I do not find it easy to give voice to my feelings in the light of the comments that we have heard. I am glad we have heard them; I am glad the debate has offered us the opportunity to share opinions in this way—but comfortable I am not.

I am very grateful that we began with my noble friend Lord Hain, in view of what I have just said, who reminded us that we must set this debate within his view that the toxic attacks on Jewish, Muslim and black people—I take the point of the noble Lord, Lord Singh, that we must be careful to be more inclusive when we mention those who are on the receiving end of prejudice and discrimination—represent a broad canvas. We have tended, inevitably, to focus on anti-Semitism and there is a properness about that, but we must remember that it is a very pernicious kind of racism, set, at the moment, in a context where racism in various mutations is doing damage across the field.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, reminded my noble friend Lord Hain of his seniority in these matters, and of the longer period during which he could say that he too had never seen a situation quite like this one. The noble and learned Lord went on to ask how we could identify the powerful forces that are at work beneath the epiphenomena. That is really where I would like to concentrate. Indeed, I think it was the noble Lord, Lord Singh, who came nearest to where all my thoughts were as I prepared for this debate. It is true that those conferences and symposia, those seminars that you go to, full of blandishments and fine words unrelated to causes, are about ephemeral and marginal issues. I am so pleased to hear that said. I would not have had the courage to say it, but I am delighted to have the courage to echo it. We must find a way to get to the core of the things we need to discuss together, the things beneath all the things that happen on the surface.

It was a privilege for me, 20 years ago, to find some seed-corn money to set up a study centre in Cambridge, at that time between Christians and Jews. It has subsequently blossomed and has been patronised by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf. It is now called the Woolf Institute and it is for the three Abrahamic faiths. I feel proud to have been identified with the very beginnings of that. It does simply astonishing work but I must resist the temptation to just go on and expatiate about that, because there is one strand of its work that caught my attention. Woolf Institute specialists are brought in to advise the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Metropolitan Police, through anti-Semitism awareness courses. I feel I can draw some comfort from the fact that somebody is working systematically with these major agencies of our state—and other bodies to, I should say—to help people identify what lies under the surface, how to recognise it and how to understand why it is there.

I remember in the 1970s attending an anti-racism course. My wife and I had been living as the only two white people in a community of 250,000 black people. I had been living in those circumstances and felt that I was going to attend an anti-racism course so that people could tell me who the racists were, but I ended up coming away recognising the racism that was in me. That was a significant thing, and I would say the same thing about these anti-Semitism awareness courses. How can it be otherwise: a country such as ours, which has had a long imperial past, subjugating so many parts of the world to our rule and keeping the “race problem” at bay because it was all overseas, and yet germinating the seeds of attitudes towards those whom we governed? How could it be that embedded deep in our psyches is anything other than something that can flourish as a racial question of one kind or another? How can it be that I, as a Christian, can be part of a faith that, during the 2,000 years of its history, has significantly and continuously persecuted, stigmatised, marginalised or ghettoised the Jews? How could it be that I should be surprised to find within myself something that could become hateful and odious? The indigenous population has to understand that it may be germinating the problem, rather than focusing on minority groups as if, in some way, they are the problem. This is a generous way of looking at what is a very significant issue in our general social situation at the moment.

There is a vision of how religions might come together. It might include Sikhs and Hindus—although you will tell me afterwards whether it would or not. This vision is one I read and, although it is late, I hope your Lordships will forgive me if I read it. For me, it touches a possibility that, if religions were capable of the self-criticism needed, this could yield a fruitful outcome.

“The radical transcendence of God in the Hebrew Bible means nothing more nor less than that there is a difference between God and religion… Religion is the translation of God into a particular language and thus into the life of a group, a nation, a community of faith. In the course of history, God has spoken to mankind in many languages: through Judaism to Jews, Christianity to Christians, Islam to Muslims. Only such a God is truly transcendental—greater not only than the natural universe but also than the spiritual universe articulated in any single faith, any specific languages of human sensibility. How could a sacred text convey such an idea? It would declare that God is God of all humanity, but no single faith is or should be the faith of all humanity. Only such a narrative would lead us to see the presence of God in people of other faiths. Only such a worldview could reconcile the particularity of cultures with the universality of the human condition”.


I see in that a vista which will not be pleasing to those for whom their particular religion is their all in all. However, these are not my words; they are the words of one whose name has been quoted again and again in this debate—the noble Lord, Lord Sacks. He wrote them in a book called The Dignity of Difference. It might behove us to think about them very carefully.

The noble Baroness, Lady Warsi, mentioned dinner-table talk. The indigenous population is racist around the table all the time. I do not care about being or not being policed; it is just odious that, when we are on our own, we say things that we would be ashamed to say anywhere else. We have to admit it. Dinner-table talk is a bit the same as locker-room talk for another part of the Atlantic family.

We have a long way to go. The obstacles are great because, in the end, we are fighting against human nature, but the goals are worth while. Living together is an infinitely richer thing to dream about than going on fighting our corner in the way that we do.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths of Burry Port, for what he has just said. He will be a very difficult act to follow because of the transparent honesty and great insight of his contribution. This has universally been a very good debate. I shall try to do justice to the contributions that have been made. I first heard what a formidable preacher the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, was from my church. Now I know how formidable he is as a statesman. His was a very moving contribution.

I will try to deal with the various contributions that have been made under different headings. I will say once again, perhaps echoing the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, that this has been a good debate where the House came together, giving a clear message. I do not think that a great deal separates individuals who have made contributions in an important debate. Questions and issues have been raised, which I will try to deal with.

I will try to set the scene of this debate—rather curiously, at the end. Although it is quite true that there are some dreadful statistics on race crime, religious crime and hate crime in general, as we have seen this week, it is important to put it in context, that we are seeing a much better level of reporting. We can see that from the crime survey. These dreadful statistics was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, my noble friends Lord Pickles and Lord Gadhia, and the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria. The statistics are dreadful, but without minimising the massive challenges that exist, we are having success in upping the rate of reporting, such that the rate of reporting of hate crime appears to be higher than the average reporting of other crime. That is not to minimise the problem but to try to give some context to what we are talking about. It is still a deeply serious position, but I do not want people to think that it has suddenly taken off and escalated massively in the way that some reports in the media might suggest. That is not quite true, and it took me a while to grasp that, looking at all the documents. I can now see that although there have been increases, they are not as alarming as perhaps appears to be the case. What is undoubtedly true, as many noble Lords highlighted, is that most reported cases have certainly been aimed at Muslims—the vast majority—while others in the next category were aimed at the Jewish community, and at others such as the Sikh and Hindu communities, as well as at the Christian community. Religious hatred therefore involves all our communities, but clearly it is mostly in relation to Muslims, and then anti-Semitic hate crime.

I pay proper regard to my noble friend Lady Warsi and express my gratitude to her for the awesome work she has done and continues to do in this field, which is, quite rightly, massively valued in the community. She asked about the breakdown of the statistics in relation to religion; this happened for the first time this year, and I have been very keen that it should. The intention is to carry on with that, because it gives us a greater insight into what is happening.

The noble Lord, Lord Morrow, asked about the breakdown of the statistics, and in particular about the category of no religion. Part of this is that different forces seem to have been reporting in different ways, and I am trying to get to the bottom of that. The point was made, I think by the noble Lord, Lord Singh, that it is partly because other religious groups are attacked because some people may think, for example, that they are Muslim or Jewish when they are not. It is therefore a more complex picture then perhaps appears to be the case at first sight. However, I will write to the noble Lord, Lord Morrow, with a more detailed background on what is happening and will copy the letter to other noble Lords. I will do the same on the other, very germane point the noble Lord asked about the vulnerable places of worship scheme and the particular breakdown of the different places of religion. That is a good question, and although I have the figures, rather than go through them all and take time now—I could also talk about unsuccessful applications—I will cover that in a letter.

Many noble Lords focused on anti-Semitism. I was particularly grateful to my noble friend Lord Pickles, who highlighted what the noble Lord, Lord Sacks, said in the previous debate. This becomes a real problem and moves from the fringes to the centre of a political party when the party concerned does not have a lack of support as a consequence, and when there is vilification of those who seek to protest. Where it happens there is a perfect storm, and we are entering that territory.

Whatever other conclusions we take from the picture today, we are in a very serious position. This was highlighted by the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, by my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay and by the noble Lords, Lord Triesman and Lord Kestenbaum, in two very courageous speeches. The noble Lord, Lord Hain, also referred to this issue and spoke of Luciana Berger—I join him in saying she has done outstanding work; she was quite rightly recognised at the No2H8 Crime Awards, and my noble friend Lord Suri also referred to this.

The noble Lord, Lord Desai, said we have not always been a tolerant country and there is some truth in that. He cited the situation with Enoch Powell but he did not go on to mention something germane, which is the swift action that was taken by the leader of the Conservative Party—I was still at school but, from memory, we were in opposition—to dismiss him. It was an act of great political courage at a time when this issue might not have been regarded in quite the same way that it is now. That is perhaps a difference. All political leaders—particularly leaders of political parties, including my own—need to provide strong leadership and have to be very careful in the language they use.

The point has been made about the particular issue that confronts the Labour Party and I do not want to dwell on it. While I have not historically loved the Labour Party, I have always had the greatest of respect for a succession of leaders, many of whom have done great things for this country and would not have seen a situation like the one we have now. It is unthinkable that Harold Wilson, Jim Callaghan, Tony Blair or any leader, frankly, until the present one would have tolerated what has been happening. That is not to say there are not issues that confront the Conservative Party, but they do not go to the core of the leadership. It is unthinkable that anyone could make these sorts of accusations against the Prime Minister. While I accept there are membership issues and issues around the language some people use, I think there is a particular issue confronting the Labour Party and it has an effect on our nation.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port]

I am happy to be given this opportunity to say that, until quite recently, Boris Johnson was at the heart of the Conservative Party and embodied many of the negativities that we are talking about.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

One might say, “To a degree, Lord Copper”. I will not defend his use of language but I think the noble Lord would agree that the structural issue in the leadership of the Labour Party is different from that. I accept that there are issues that need addressing. They are being investigated in the party and I hope an appropriate conclusion will be reached.

If I may move on, the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, spoke about Holocaust denial, which is important, and important too in the context of genocide denial. My noble friend Lord Cormack spoke about the need for balance. I agree with that and about the importance of freedom of speech, and with much of what the most reverend Primate said about it, except that freedom of speech cannot exist in a vacuum. Nobody has the right to go into a crowded theatre and cry “Fire!” during a performance. That would be freedom of speech but there are laws to protect against it and I am sure that neither Voltaire nor Stephen Hawking would disagree with that. This has to be in the context that many people who fear greatly for the future of this country and their position in it are protected against some of the things happening in our country at the moment.

I too applaud the Church of England for adopting the definition of anti-Semitism, as many other institutions have done—our Government were the first in the world to do so. On Islamophobia, I applaud once again the work done by my noble friend Lady Warsi—Yorkshirewoman of the year, as announced by our Yorkshireman, my noble friend Lord Pickles. I seem to have had a rather Yorkshire day today, with a question on Yorkshire too. The noble Baroness is formidable and I am pleased about the work that the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Islamophobia has been doing on the definition. As I think she knows, I have refreshed the membership of what is currently the Anti-Muslim Hatred Working Group—a bit of a mouthful. It has a strong membership, well led by Akeela Ahmed. It will be looking at the definition of Islamophobia and, as it is revamped with new life injected into it, a proper budget and proper work schedule, it will be looking at different aspects of Islamophobia and how we can help in that regard.

That should not, however, be at the expense of neglecting other communities. We meet representatives of the Sikh community regularly, as I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Singh, would acknowledge. I accept that they too are subject to attacks and prejudice, and that must not be forgotten.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

The noble Baroness would, if she stood where I am, see that the next section of my response moves on to that, but I accept the concern she has expressed.

We have had good contributions from Members from across religions. We heard the Hindu position from my noble friend Lord Gadhia, and the Sikh position from the noble Lord, Lord Singh, and my noble friend Lord Suri. I accept what the leaders of these faith groups, Guru Nanak and Swami Vivekananda, have said about the importance of plurality, community and so on. The Zoroastrian community was, as always, ably represented by the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, and we heard a contribution on Roman Catholicism from my noble friend Lord Patten.

Before I talk about universities, I want to comment on the Holocaust memorial. I will not comment on the siting—this is perhaps not the time to do so. However, the case for the memorial is widely accepted and was put powerfully by my noble friends Lord Pickles and Lord Cormack and the noble Baroness, Lady Deech. I agree with her that this is not the sum total of what needs to be done; these issues are not solved by memorials alone. A lot will be affected and influenced by what goes in the Holocaust centre, which will deal also with genocides since the Holocaust.

Before I come on to what unites us, let me deal with the points made on universities. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, that the balance of freedom of expression and speech is not right in universities at the moment. It has improved under the current leadership, but I accept what she said about the need to involve the Union of Jewish Students and the need for the Department for Education to come forward on this issue. However, have no doubt, the Government are determined that there will be that freedom on campus. That is central to getting the balance that my noble friend Lord Cormack referred to. Here, we are in favour of some action.

What unites us? The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, talked about this being key, and it has to be. Let us take strength from the positive things that are happening in our communities—and a lot is happening, on interfaith in particular. When I first took on this job, I was stunned to find how much is happening. It surprised me and I am sure it would surprise noble Lords. I shall cover some examples in the letter, but I will give one or two examples now. At the Finsbury Park Mosque attack, just over a year ago—that was not the one I referred to earlier; I was referring to the Cricklewood mosque attack—the first people there to comfort their Muslim brothers and sisters were members of the Haredi Jewish community, who knew them well and who lived just down the road. That was surprising enough on its own, but it is an example of some of the strengths present in our communities. It is important that we do not lose sight of these things.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port]

I simply wanted to say that Jeremy Corbyn was among the first there on that occasion.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

That is perfectly true—he was there as the local MP—and, in fairness, I think Diane Abbott was there soon after, as was the Prime Minister. Political leadership is important, but that faith dimension is very important to note. But the noble Lord is absolutely right: he was there.

The same is true of the Manchester Arena attack, with communities coming together. In fact, there was interfaith activity after all of the attacks we have had, which is very important and signals what can, and often does, happen regularly—in difficult, and not so difficult, times. This often happens around food, dance, music and sport; coming together and becoming friends and allies.

Let me just say something about social media, which is a massive challenge, and which many noble Lords referred to—the noble Lords, Lord Triesman and Lord Desai, and my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay all referred to it. I was very interested in talking to HOPE not hate and, like the noble Lord, Lord Hain, I pay tribute to the work it does, as well as to Kick It Out and Show Racism the Red Card. They all do great work. I was interested in what it said about the massive amount of damage that can be done by a few lone wolves, often sitting in a bedsit, sending out this stuff on social media. The ability to tackle that, acting nationally, locally and globally, is a real challenge. Some organisations such as Google are doing good work, but others need to step up to the plate somewhat more. It is a real challenge and, again, we are trying to deal with that across parties and across Government.

There are a couple of things I would like to touch on briefly in this very limited time. In the autumn, the Government will come forward with the integration action plan, which relates to the earlier White Paper, indicating things that are important. One of those, which was touched on, was the importance of the English language. That is of key significance and makes a real difference. It perhaps ties in with what some noble Lords were saying about the need for positive action in communities to help with some of the issues that confront us.

We have social action programmes. I referred previously to the Hate Crime Action Plan and mentioned the Anti-Muslim Hatred Working Group. Perhaps I may also mention the race disparity audit, the Prime Minister’s initiative to issue data across government on outcomes for different races. I appreciate that I have moved away from religion, but it is important to see where we are in the fields of health, education and housing in relation to different racial groups. When you have the data, which you cannot really disagree with, you then have to do something about it. We are in the process of doing that and some actions will be announced this month. They will take place on an ongoing basis, which is also important.

Perhaps I may mention one other key point. Action by government, local authorities and institutions is important, but so too—this came out at the meeting I had this morning when talking to a young Muslim teacher—are role models, not just at the local level, such as the doctor, the teacher, the accountant or the person who runs a small business, but nationally. I often say that Mo Farah, Nasser Hussain, Natasha Kaplinsky and so on probably do far more than government programmes could ever hope to do—certainly, they do it in a different way—and we should recognise that too.

In conclusion, I accept that political action is needed in all parties on behalf of all individuals, and we all have a responsibility to step up to the plate. It sticks in my craw that my fellow country men and women fear the tap on the shoulder and have a packed suitcase ready. Many across different faiths worry that they are not welcome in their own country—a country they were not born to but have lived in and a country they love. This is frankly outrageous and not acceptable. As politicians—whether it is Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn or anybody else—we have a responsibility to provide leadership across the country, because such a situation is fundamentally wrong and totally contrary to what makes this country great, and we must not tolerate it. Indeed, we will not tolerate it. I thank noble Lords for taking part in this debate.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Lord Griffiths of Burry Port Excerpts

Committee: 11th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 28th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Foulkes described this as a futile Bill. He may be right, but it is the Bill that we are discussing. Similarly, many quite prolix arguments have been made about a number of matters that are of great importance but are not directly a consequence of the amendment before us. If we look at that, we might need to do so in a particularly poignant way.

First, I commend the terrier-like activity and concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, who has worried away at this subject like a dog with a bone over 11 days —it astonishes me that there is still some marrow in the bones, but it has been necessary. Others have talked with regret about the fact that other parts of the United Kingdom have not received the same attention that Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have. We can all regret that, but we can see exactly why they have received more attention, because the Bill as drafted dealt with the devolved Governments’ established institutions in a way that many people in authority felt was not fair, or just, or constitutional or whatever. Consequently, we needed to deal with the irregularities that the Bill generated in respect of these institutions, and that is what we have spent quite a lot of time doing.

I look at what has happened in Wales since 1997 and recognise the building of confidence in the institutions that now govern the Principality. I see the three different ways in which powers were gradually passed over to the Assembly: first, in a hand-me-down sort of way from this Parliament; secondly, by statutory instrument; and, finally, only very recently, through primary legislation-making powers.

I am delighted to see the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, across the Chamber, given the constructive part he played, as the leader of the Conservatives in Wales at that time, in bringing about the referendum and the agreed settlement that gave us the Assembly as it is. Let there be no doubt about it, the Assembly in Wales began in a situation of chaos—with a plain piece of paper on which many potential plans and outlines were scribbled as the various parties for power struggled between themselves to find the right shape.

At the minute, I am dealing with the family of the late Lord Richard of Ammanford, because I will be officiating at his funeral. As I look at his life, the interesting thing to note is the part played by the Richard commission, which put before the people of Wales a number of steps, just about all of which have now been incorporated into legislation which I believe will soon come into being and will govern affairs henceforward—a posthumous tribute to him. The important thing was that it commanded the confidence of all parties in Wales. Those who have typified the contribution of the Welsh voice to this debate as being merely a mouthpiece for Labour in Wales are wide of the mark. The widespread support for the institutions is acknowledged—and the part played in that by the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, has to be recognised.

Here we are on the 11th day of Committee, but this is not the end of it—for goodness sake, there is a lot of entertainment yet to come. Where else would I get the kind of discussion that we have enjoyed about the Queen’s printer? Was it dot matrix or what? Because Her Majesty likes Tupperware, perhaps she likes old-fashioned ways of printing—I do not know, but it was a very illuminating and enlightening debate. We have had esoteric and philosophical principles adduced, constitutional and political positions established and fought for, and all the rest of it. At the end of the day, is it not wonderful that, with all these things in the ether—all this magnificence of idea and thought—it is money that constitutes the core of the amendment before us? We heard reference earlier in the debate to the practical arrangements that we need to face—well nothing is more practical than money.

Wales can legitimately point to the difference between the kind of economic activity that it was able to enjoy and take forward while administered, as it were, from Westminster and the kind of support that it has received subsequently because of membership of the European Union. We should hear from our debate the plea to distinguish between the infelicities of a Barnett formula which applied crudely to Wales and what will happen if it is applied crudely to Wales after we come out of Europe—if we come out of Europe. It will lead once again to a cap-in-hand approach from Wales to its financial masters here in London.

“Needs based” has been a tectonic plate, it has been a quantum leap to go from the Barnett formula to that. The needs of some of the run-down and rural areas in Wales are very desperate indeed. So I hope that we have heard, through all that has been said, the need for us to look again at the principle of how to financially support this institution.

The word “consent” was used earlier and was disputed greatly. Consenting adults is a concept that I am very familiar with. I would have hoped that instead of consent being interpreted, as it has been, as requiring a level of support that cannot be given for legal and other reasons, we would remember that consent between consenting adults is reciprocal. I do not want to think that the devolved Governments are holding a gun—a veto power—to the head of the United Kingdom Government. But Wales feels that, in the way the Bill is drafted, that is exactly what the United Kingdom Government are doing to Wales: holding a potential veto to its plans, which in certain circumstances they might use.

It all drives us back to that one word which the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted, mentioned this morning: trust. There has to be trust. How we rejoiced at the possibility that framework arrangements—the list of 24 has been referred to in previous debates—might be written into a schedule to the Bill, as amended, so as to give confidence to the people in Wales that there is a shape going forward. Some sort of consent to that list could indicate all that is necessary for us moving together as partners. The Government in Wales do not need to be treated in an infantile manner in these matters. Trust is possible, and in my opinion it is necessary.

We can read for ourselves all the details in Hansard, but this amendment has put out the case. Once we are through this process and into the legal situation that we will arrive at, on the shores of Canaan, having have crossed the river Jordan—

[A noble Lord]

Oh!

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port]

I was hoping that that was an intervention—I am better prepared for interventions than I was last time.

I simply hope that, when all is said and done, the fact that this is about money—even if the guarantees and figures cannot be given in a debate such as this—will indicate the desperate need felt in Wales for some support and encouragement. There must be a promissory note for adequate support that will be met once we are no longer in Europe for the activities that up to now Europe has helped us with so generously.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, for tabling these amendments and all who have participated in what has been a free-wheeling, free-ranging debate covering an awful lot of important areas, some which I perhaps in all fairness could not have anticipated when I read the amendments.

The noble Lord, Lord Griffiths of Burry Port, is absolutely right that in debating something geared specifically to Wales we should recognise the enormous contributions made by Lord Richard and Lord Crickhowell, both of whom sadly died recently. Sometimes in similar ways but in differing ways in other respects, both made enormous contributions in Wales and to devolution. Lord Richard is certainly massively missed. He made an outstanding contribution on the Richard commission in relation to devolution but in so many other ways in public life as well.

I will first turn to the amendments and then try to do justice to the many wide-ranging points made during the debate. The noble Lord, Lord Wigley, was described as “terrier-like” and as getting the last bit of marrow out of the bone. As someone who has often broken bread with him, I thought that conjured up an extraordinary vision of him. For many years, he has certainly fought hard for many issues in public life, not least for Welsh principles and rights, both here, in the Commons and in the National Assembly for Wales. I think that is acknowledged across the political divide and by people with no politics at all. He continues to make an extraordinary contribution.

The amendments would require the United Kingdom Government to produce a report outlining how EU funding provided to Wales will be replaced once we leave the EU. They would mean that the entire Bill could not be brought into force pending the publication of such a report.

While I understand the desire for as much clarity as possible—I shall say something about cohesion funding shortly—I do not consider such a step necessary in view of the considerable funding assurances the Government have already made to all parts of the United Kingdom. I recognise that there is an issue here that goes broader than Wales. There are certainly issues relating to Cumbria, as has been mentioned during the debate, Cornwall, Merseyside, Scotland and so on—this affects many parts of the United Kingdom, although the amendments are for understandable reasons addressed to the needs of Wales, which I can strongly identify with.

The agreed implementation period to the end of 2020 will see the UK participate in 2014 to 2020 EU funding programmes until their closure. In the case of some of those projects, that will mean the end of 2023. It will not be beyond 2023, but it could mean funding for those programmes that remain open during that funding programme until the end of 2023. The projects would receive their full allocation of EU funding during that period—that is an agreed position as things stand.

This approach ensures that projects are not disrupted and no community misses out. The noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, was there at the start of the Assembly as were the noble Lord, Lord Wigley and I, and saw the benefit of such funding—I fully recognise many of the examples that she gave. In the area that I represented in west Wales, there were massive benefits. No community would miss out. British businesses and potential investors have certainty and stability up to the end of projects running to 2023.

In the longer term, the Government have further committed to maintain cash farm funding until the end of this Parliament, taking us beyond 2020, which provides the sector with more certainty than in any other part of the EU as things stand. The Government will also create a UK shared prosperity fund to reduce inequalities between communities across the United Kingdom and deliver sustainable, inclusive growth. The Government intend to consult on the design of this United Kingdom-wide fund during 2018. That will of course, quite rightly, mean engagement with the Welsh Assembly through the Welsh Government and, similarly, the Scottish Parliament through the Scottish Government and with others who would expect to be consulted in that process.

Wales Bill

Lord Griffiths of Burry Port Excerpts

Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords
Wednesday 14th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, I will intervene for a short moment, with real apologies for not having been here at earlier stages in these discussions—I fear that I have duties that do not make it possible to be here all that often. I take the definition of the £10 bank very seriously to heart, but that is not the issue for me. I congratulate the Government and the Minister on recognising that there is a problem and bringing forward a government amendment that reflects that. The curious paradox for me is that having recognised there is a problem, on the basis of fixed-odds betting machines as they currently exist, the one area that devolved responsibility does not address is the very part of the problem that creates the discussion in the first place. To have an amendment that provides powers for the Welsh Assembly to look after what happens in the future, when the problem that has generated the debate cannot yield a similar level of control, seems to me a curious paradox. So while thanking the noble and genial Lord the Minister, who has handled things so magnificently in these debates, I just urge him to think about something that is paradoxical but could be tidied up. If retrospective responsibility could be introduced, that would make it a much better amendment from the Government.

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Griffiths of Burry Port is rather charitable, indeed flattering, to the Government in referring to their creation of a paradox. I would say that this is simply confused and bad policy-making and endorse what my noble friend Lady Morgan of Ely said at the outset. First, it is not a good way to treat the House for the Government to insist on mixing up, in one group, amendments on this variety of topics—energy, the Crown Estate and gambling. This is not a basis for rational scrutiny of legislation and it should not have happened.

I want to dwell on the gambling issue for only a moment, as much more important is the confusion in the handling of it. To make this distinction between different sizes of bank or stake—I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord James, for his elucidation of the issue—and to attempt to make a distinction between responsibility for supervision of machines that are already in Wales and for machines that may in future be in Wales is to fragment responsibility. If the Government are going to devolve responsibility for a very important social issue, they should devolve it properly and produce a coherent solution. Fragmenting responsibility can only make for confused and ineffective policy-making. This issue matters far too much to Welsh society, and in particular to the prospects for significant numbers of young people in Wales, and we need a coherent and proper policy for it.

Wales Bill

Lord Griffiths of Burry Port Excerpts

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 15th November 2016 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port]

52: Schedule 1, page 54, line 3, at end insert—
“ExceptionIn the case of a betting premises licence under the Gambling Act 2005, other than one in respect of a track, the number of gaming machines authorised for which the maximum charge for use is more than £10 (or whether such machines are authorised).”

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, I have listened to so many speeches and suggestions on this Bill. Mine is a tiny contribution to that debate. I make even my tiny contribution with some perplexity; I find it difficult to consider, or to hear being considered, proposals that will have considerable costing elements to them while we are being told that a fiscal framework is being debated somewhere else. That makes the nature of the contributions that we make a little recondite. Nevertheless, we carry on.

I have read a few Bills since I have been a Member of your Lordships’ House and this one seems so extraordinary—a bit of a dog’s breakfast—with all these reserved powers, enumerated one after the other, 10 after 10 and almost 100 after 100, which makes us wonder whether there is any coherence at all at the heart of this Bill. Others will debate significant and large issues before we exhaust the consideration of these reserved powers. Mine is a very small issue, as I say, yet it will test the good will of the Government and allow us to test whether the Government are prepared to consider these issues at all. If they cannot for the issue that I shall present in a moment, I cannot see how they will begin to deal with some of the bigger things under discussion.

We recognise that gambling is a prevalent aspect of contemporary culture and takes many forms. There is no suggestion in this humble amendment of ours that we should take powers to the devolved Government stretching across all the complex picture that represents the gambling industry in this land of ours. But when I look at the Gambling Act 2005 to identify the major thrust that it seeks to put out by way of policy, I see that there are three points—and they are quickly enumerated. First, it mentions,

“preventing gambling from being a source of crime or disorder”.

There is no problem there. Secondly, it talks about,

“ensuring that gambling is conducted in a fair and open way”.

Again, surely that is not problematical for any of us. But it is the third,

“protecting children … from being harmed or exploited by gambling”,

that concerns me here.

The amendment relates to gaming machines. Of all the gambling opportunities available to people, threatening them and tempting them, gaming machines are the most obviously accessible forms of gambling and might be the most obvious temptation for children. That is where children might be most vulnerable; when they go into a premises either licensed or licensed for a different activity, but having machines within it, there might be a danger that we should seek to mitigate as far as possible.

The amendment does not seek even to control gaming machines of all descriptions. Some noble Lords will remember, from the debate in 2005, that there are four categories of gaming machine, ranging in financial levels at which gambling can take place from A to D. Here, we are referring to those where the maximum charge for use is more than £10, which is perhaps more than most children have as pocket money. However, we are not only concerned about children; we just cite them as being likely to be in the presence of these alluring machines as much as adults are. Why should this aspect of gambling not be controlled by the devolved Government of Wales, since it is so easy to identify where they are, recognising that the application for licensing premises to include and use them is a fairly mechanistic affair? There is nothing complicated here. Nor would this complicate any issues that would imperil a coherent policy across the United Kingdom. Scotland has such powers already; why not Wales?

For this humble part of the gambling industry, some sort of oversight might be devolved to the Welsh Government. In 2012, the Gambling Commission gave a lot of statistics about gambling, including some that one can extract as applying to Wales. It seems that billions of pounds are spent on gambling in Wales every year. I say “it seems” because there is no real, empirical evidence that we can tie down convincingly in a debate such as this. The Welsh Government have felt that there were other priorities than conducting statistical research in this area. However, anecdotally—and in my experience of visiting a number of communities across Wales where I hear people talk—this is a real social problem. Consequently, it seems logical to invoke the principal of subsidiarity so that control of this aspect of gambling should be as near to where the gambling takes place as one can conceive of. It is not rocket science: this is a fairly easy conclusion to reach. The problem is whether Her Majesty’s Government will be prepared to single this aspect out from the welter of other gambling activities that take place in order to allow it to be controlled elsewhere than here at Westminster.

I hope that the gentle way in which I have moved this amendment will be heard. Gentle though it is, it may be a test of the Government’s readiness to take into consideration activities which are part of the prevailing culture in Wales, where ordinary people involved in ordinary activity are sometimes easily taken out of their depth and run into danger. I beg to move.

[Lord Howarth of Newport (Lab)]

I support the amendment and, indeed, only wish that my noble friends had gone further and tabled an amendment that would have devolved legislative powers and policy-making on gambling in its entirety to Wales. Gambling is a social and moral issue and of its essence should be determined by the local community which is affected. Will the Minister say why it is the Government’s view that they must hug gaming machines to their bosom? Why are they not willing to allow the people of Wales their will, as expressed by their own Assembly in Cardiff, to go to perdition or to grace in the way of their own choosing?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port]

My Lords, such graciousness! How happy I am that the first amendment that I have tabled has met a response of that kind. Therefore, I am pleased to beg leave to withdraw the amendment in favour of the further discussion that we are now promised.

Amendment 52 withdrawn.

Housing

Lord Griffiths of Burry Port Excerpts

Thursday 3rd November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port]

Moved by

To move that this House takes note of the impact of the shortage of housing on the desire of people, particularly the young, to live in the communities where they were born, raised and educated.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful for this opportunity to address a subject about which I feel passionate. It is a small way to begin to discharge a debt owed by people of my generation to those younger than us. I should also like to express my gratitude to those who will speak later in this debate. I trust it will lay bare an existential need to bring imagination, compassion and resource to the housing needs of young people.

I am a Methodist minister working in London, where the City of London and the boroughs of Islington and Hackney all come together. A Peabody housing estate and blocks of flats built by our local authorities attest to the provision of social housing in earlier times. These dwellings have been inhabited by thousands of lower-income families, many of whom are reached by the ministries of our church. It is with the children of these families that I want to begin. We work hard to raise their aspirations, broaden their horizons and help them strike out towards a bright future. A philanthropist friend has contributed millions of pounds to allow a steady stream of inner-city boys and girls to take up places at the Leys School, our Methodist school in Cambridge. He has also helped us to set up a small fund that helps dozens of our young people who head off for university, where some have gained very impressive qualifications. It is what happens next in the lives of these young people—educated, talented and multi-ethnic young people—that has led to my seeking this debate.

I should put alongside those young people from my congregation the pupils of two splendid inner-city secondary schools—one for boys in Islington and the other for girls in Tower Hamlets—which together form the Central Foundation Schools of London. One hundred and fifty years ago, this foundation was set up to provide for the educational needs of middle-class children. Both schools have undergone exponential change in recent years and are now among the best-performing schools in London. They send young adults on to higher education and into the world of work, and there are brilliant mentoring schemes with local enterprises. It is what happens to those pupils when they leave school that concerns me. They were born, have grown up and are being educated in this part of London. As they begin to establish their own lives, it is becoming virtually impossible for them to root those lives in the communities they know, close to friends and support networks.

If this were a sermon—which of course is a craft I know something about—I would begin with a text by St Theresa:

“If you’re young, you’ll find it harder than ever before to own your own home”.

That is quite an opening blast from an incoming Prime Minister, especially when we remember all the experience that she gained in her years at the Home Office. So we hang on to the pledge with which she followed that declaration. She promised to make Britain,

“a country that works for everyone”.

Everyone includes, of course, young people, and it is in the spirit of that pledge that I offer my remarks today.

At this point, I suggest that there is little point in trading statistics across the Floor of the House—we must surely all be aware of the housing crisis facing us. Nor do I think there is much to gain from comparing the achievements or failures of successive Administrations. Everyone has tried to respond to the crisis but no one can honestly say that they have cracked it. This Government and their coalition predecessors brought forward their Starter Home scheme and offered Help to Buy equity loans. The Communities Secretary has recently called for 1 million new homes to be built by 2020. We can only wish him well. It is not the first time that that same call has been made—indeed, an identical target was abandoned only recently—but by all means let us have another go.

To meet the target, the maths are not difficult—just divide 1 million by four—but it has been notoriously difficult to get anywhere near the figure that results from that equation. The best that anyone has done in recent times was 10 years ago, in 2006-07, when 219,000 homes were built. Last year it was just 170,000 and the previous year a miserly 145,000. Even the 100,000 prefabs mentioned in the media this week as perhaps one way of helping to reach the jackpot would only scratch the surface of our housing problem.

A little YouTube clip that has been watched by millions of people says it all. It shows a young couple living in rented accommodation and trying hard to save up for a deposit on a house. Their joint earnings amount to £58,000 but they still cannot get enough money together for a deposit. Average rents have risen by 20% in the last five years, while average wages have risen by only 5%. Again, the maths are simple. Rent in London has now soared to a median of £1,400 per calendar month. As London First—a splendid coalition of London employers, the housing charity Shelter, the FSB and the CBI—puts it, as part of its Fifty Thousand Homes campaign:

“For workers in sales, customer service and care, median rents in Inner London and Outer London are close to or above 100% of … typical gross earnings”.

It points out that even entry-level bankers will struggle to afford these rents.

The rented sector offers little solace for young people. Evidence of that was readily available in the Homes and Property section of yesterday’s Evening Standard. It looked at the rent levels of people seeking to live in one room. The borough of Bexley offers the cheapest such accommodation at £500 per room—that is per room, not flat. It was a frightening feature article and made it clear just how the rented sector proves such an attractive arena for private landlords who can so easily exploit the housing shortage to their benefit.

In the next few months, I will be moving from my tied accommodation into the housing market for the first time in my life. Initial exploration has revealed to me the risks, the lack of security and the costs that are involved in trying to find somewhere to live, whether to buy or rent. This hits young people hardest. It really is time that people of our generation come clean about the mess we have left for our children and grandchildren.

There has been much talk about the need to invest in large capital projects as we face an uncertain economic future. The Crossrail project is nearing completion, the nuclear power station at Hinkley Point has got the green light, HS2 is stuttering its way into life and a new runway at Heathrow seems to have got approval. The mood music is clear, but here come my questions. Why cannot we put the provision of housing on a par with all these grand projects? Is not the need to have a roof over our heads and a decent place to live a fundamental human right? Why can we not commit to a national plan to meet the housing targets that we continue to set for ourselves? Why can this not be bipartisan? Why can this obvious social need not command the best energies of us all in a concerted effort to change things? Is it really impossible to provide more support to local authorities that want to start building again? Is it really impossible or politically inexpedient to abolish the restrictions that prevent local authorities borrowing against the value of their housing stock, especially where this would be done within prudential limits? Is ideology or a refusal to recognise past failures always going to win on this matter?

The housing market is so totally skewed in the part of London where I live. Block after block of luxury flats is being built, and five years ago, the cheapest in a development 50 yards from my home was going for £650,000. There seems no end to the demand for these flats, yet nobody seems to live in them. Speculative building is taking up all our space, driving up demand, and contributing to the increasing unaffordability of housing for local people and thereby gentrifying our community. In 2010, 50% of pupils entering our local boys school were registered for free school meals. Six years later, this year, that has dropped to 16%. If this meant that local residents were becoming more affluent, it would be fine, but of course it does not mean that at all. It simply points to local people being edged out of their accommodation as wealthier people buy into it. Social change is a weird thing when it is forced by these artificial market forces.

I see these things from my metropolitan point of view. However, I am happy to acknowledge submissions I have received from other parts of the country from charitable bodies that work across England, and from the Countryside Alliance in respect of rural communities. They offer a broad measure of support for the case I am seeking to establish. The current housing crisis should be recognised as a national emergency and treated as such.

Shelter, that admirable champion of those seeking decent housing, has worked out a formula it calls the living home standard and applied it to the needs of young people. Shelter offers this standard as a,

“housing equivalent of the living wage”.

Unsurprisingly, it breaks down the essential elements of that formula into five basic components: affordability, space, stability, decent conditions and neighbourhood. It is the lack of provision across all these requirements, especially as they affect young people, that has led me to seek this debate today.

I am currently helping an author who has written the biography of Sir Kingsley Wood, an important Conservative politician of the 1920s and 1930s. At his untimely death in 1943, he was Winston Churchill’s Chancellor of the Exchequer. His most significant government service was in the Department of Health, first as assistant to Neville Chamberlain and then, later, as Minister in his own right. In those days, responsibility for housing fell within the Department of Health. Wood worked it all out: if people are decently housed, they are likely to enjoy better health. In 1925, as a Conservative Minister, he was brave enough, as he put it,

“to take a risk .... in the national interest”,

by directing £14 million then being spent on the treatment of tuberculosis towards housing on the grounds that such an investment offered a way of preventing the progress of the disease and, in the end, would save money.

I remember the research of a young scholar in our congregation who was examining the relationship between the conditions in which people live and their mental health. He was clear that mental illness was frequently a consequence of bad housing and the social environment in which people lived. He is now a professor in McGill University, Montreal, and his skills are sought globally. In other words, proper attention given to housing is likely to show good results across the board: employment in the construction industry; dignity in people’s personal lives; well-being and good social image; protection and security for ordinary people; and a better future for our young people, who are currently in danger of being locked out of the housing market and moved out of the neighbourhoods that have nurtured them. I hope that, in some small way, people will have heard my voice articulating their concerns.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port]

My Lords, I add my word of gratitude to the Minister and to all those who have taken part. It has been a very enlightened and, I think, non-partisan debate on an issue that we all recognise as very important. It needs a degree of urgency, which perhaps has not been commanded up till now. I thank all those who have spoken. I am glad that my speech, being not quite a sermon, triggered a response from the noble Lord, Lord Horam. I am very pleased to have received his words and I thank him for them.

[Lord Horam]

I think we are all glad that, at least in the House of Lords, the Labour Party still owes more to Methodism than to Marx.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port]

Perhaps the noble Lord will add to that and let me have it in writing. I repeat that I am most grateful. As I conclude, I just want to remind noble Lords that it is a great privilege of the life that I live that I have the ear of untold numbers of young people from a variety of ethnic and social backgrounds. In presenting my remarks, I have sought to articulate the point of view that they have helped me to formulate, and I hope that will add a degree of urgency to the way that we look at this issue.

Motion agreed.

Wales: Economy

Lord Griffiths of Burry Port Excerpts

Monday 7th April 2014 Grand Committee

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, I, too, am grateful that this debate is being held. I came into the House of Lords 10 years ago and shared an office with the noble Lord, Lord Leitch. I did not see much of him for the first three years of the co-use of my office because he was fronting some research for the then Chancellor of the Exchequer into our skills base and the need for skills appropriate for the evolution of our economic needs over the next 10 years. The Leitch report was published shortly after that.

Skills have been mentioned in the debate, and I am sure that any improvement in the Welsh economy will depend on our having a skills base that is equal to the task. One contributing body to the improvement of skills that I prize almost above all others is the realm of higher and further education. Since the secession of Cardiff from the University of Wales and the break-up of the university as I knew it when I was a student there, the fragmentation of provision in the realm of higher education is to be regretted. I am fearful that Wales will replicate England in having a capital city in the south-eastern corner, hoovering unto itself much of the energy and resource that should be spread more widely across the Principality. As I look at what is left after we take Cardiff out of the equation, I see a little constellation of higher education institutions: in Denbigh, which I believe is struggling, and in Bangor, Aberystwyth and of course Swansea. However, my interest is particularly focused on south-west Wales. The need to take a look at Wales as a whole and to see the needs and interests of people across the Principality is essential in any view that one takes of economic development in Wales.

I commend something that is happening in the realm of further and higher education in west Wales. What was that region left with after the fragmentation of the University of Wales? There is St David’s College Lampeter, Trinity College Carmarthen and little else, although they happen to be the two most ancient higher education bodies in Wales. I myself once taught at the university at Lampeter and am now a fellow there. I have watched with great interest the successive efforts to put something together in the south-west corner of Wales that might respond to present-day needs. I see that it is now called Trinity St David—its name changes every other year, but I think I am up to date at the minute—with a campus in London for the study of business and related subjects. I visited it and talked to the people there with great interest. However, from August of last year, in addition to Trinity College Carmarthen, which was a teacher-training college, and the old liberal arts university at Lampeter, Swansea Metropolitan University joined, as did Coleg Sir Gâr. That brings together further education, a range of vocational qualifications and curricular studies, which makes the whole thing a very exciting body—in potential, at least. Across the two previously differentiated sectors of further and higher education, it can bring together and harness cross-fertilisation from engineering, beauticians and agriculture. It has a large farm, with lots of livestock and so on. The college no longer appoints a principal but appoints an entrepreneurial businessman. That is what is happening in higher education across the board, as survival becomes the name of the game.

As I look at south-west Wales, I think to myself, “That could be a sort of panic move to hold on to something at all costs and to cobble together something that might not work”, and that remains a possibility. However, at the same time it could be an innovative thing. Under the genius of Dr Medwin Hughes it could be a suggestion that provides a model of good practice that could be replicated elsewhere in the United Kingdom—bringing these sectors together, having them capable of looking to each other’s interests and developing each other’s skills. I therefore see in south-west Wales the possibility of providing skills in close communion with the local employment agencies, bodies and personnel, which I find very welcoming. I now know that we owe the electrification of the rails as far as Swansea to the Liberal Democrats. I urge them to use whatever authority they have, or imagine they have, in the Government to get the electrification taken further into west Wales, because that would help greatly. Infrastructure simply has to be provided now so that those welcome developments can flower and contribute materially to the well-being of the region in question.

I therefore just hold up the model of good practice, or at least I hope it will turn out—I really do—to be a model of good practice for south-west Wales. I urge Her Majesty’s Government to do all that they can, in the partnership that we heard spoken of in Silk 2, to contribute to the well-being of a distant part of the Principality, but which is as important to a view that we take of Wales as any other.