BBC: Funding
Lord Grade of Yarmouth Excerpts(3 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
My Lords, we want to look at the best long-term funding models for the BBC, which ensure that it gets the income it needs. It currently gets more than £3.8 billion a year. However, like many other organisations, it must look at how it spends its money in the current economic climate, mindful of the impact that has on people who pay the licence fee. In addition, as part of our future funding model, we will look at other ways in which it might get the income to continue doing the work for which it is rightly renowned.
Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)
My Lords, purely in terms of fairness, shall we hear from my noble friend Lord Grade?
Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Non-Afl)
My Lords, I may have to change my name to Tina. I declare my interests as set out in the register. I have no opinions to offer on the future of the BBC or its funding. My concern is to stress to the Minister that one of the greatest economic success stories—one of the very few in this country in the last two decades—has been the creative industries, and at the heart of that are all our public service broadcasters: the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5. Without them we would not have had “Mr Bates vs The Post Office”, “Line of Duty” or “Happy Valley”. I would love to hear some warm words from the Minister about how the future of the creative industries and the important part it plays in sustaining investment in British production, which the BBC is a big part of, will very much be in the Government’s thinking.
Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
I wholeheartedly agree with the noble Lord. The creative industries were growing twice as quickly as the economy overall before the pandemic. That is why, as part of the creative industry sector vision, we are looking to turbocharge that growth and why the creative industries are one of the Chancellor’s five priority areas for our economy. The noble Lord is also right to point to the importance of our public service broadcasters. I watched the third part of “Mr Bates vs The Post Office” last night on ITVX. It is a shining example of how the arts and creative industries can shine light on important issues facing society, and long may that continue.
Football Matches: Violence
Lord Grade of Yarmouth Excerpts(10 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
Of course, the vast majority of fans want to go to and enjoy football matches safely; it is only a minority who sometimes seek to spoil that. The Government have worked with authorities across football to help to co-ordinate action in this area. We welcome the additional measures that have been introduced. The FA, the Premier League and the English Football League announced tougher sanctions, including automatic reporting to the police for anyone participating in anti-social or criminal behaviour, increased use of sniffer dogs and club bans for anyone who enters the pitch or uses pyrotechnics. The noble Lord is right: there is a role for fans and clubs themselves to help to maintain order and an enjoyable day out.
Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Non-Afl)
My Lords, I declare my interest as a lifelong supporter of the greatest team in south-east London, known to its supporters as “Charlton nil”. Can the Government encourage the football authorities to get the players to set an example on the field and not challenge authority in a way that only encourages hooliganism?
Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
I mentioned some of the football authorities with which we work closely, and we also work closely with the Professional Footballers’ Association, which represents the safety of players. This was part of a round-table discussion that we held recently about fan disorder at football matches. My right honourable friend the Sports Minister recently sent a joint letter, with the chief executive of the Professional Footballers’ Association, to the authorities to remind all clubs of their duties with regard to player welfare and the maintenance of good order.
UK Concussion Guidelines for Grass-roots Sport
Lord Grade of Yarmouth Excerpts(1 year ago)
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Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
My right honourable friend the Sports Minister has committed to continue to work with our colleagues at the Department of Health and Social Care to make sure that the relevant advice is available to those contacting the NHS through 111, online and in other ways. We have fully engaged with the NHS during the process, and it supports the approach taken in the guidance. The Department of Health and Social Care is also formulating the Government’s new strategy on acquired brain injury, and DCMS is engaged in that work to ensure that people who play sport are well represented in that process too.
Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Non-Afl)
Does my noble friend the Minister know whether the Government have any plans to outlaw boxing?
Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
We do not, but we hope that the guidelines will encourage people who play sport, whichever sport it is, to do so safely.
Gambling Act Review White Paper
Lord Grade of Yarmouth Excerpts(1 year ago)
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Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Non-Afl)
My Lords, I welcome unequivocally the direction of travel of this White Paper. How could I do otherwise, when all the Government’s recommendations were among those of your Lordships’ Select Committee on gambling harms, which I had the privilege of serving as chairman?
I heard what the Minister said about consultation. This reminds me of the great saying in the film industry, “Hurry up and wait”, when you get to the location and everybody is standing around, ready, but nothing happens. We are ready to go with this. None of the recommendations I saw in the White Paper requires primary legislation; they can be got on with. I heard what the Minister said about the need for consultation, but there were 60,000 responses to the consultation that led to the White Paper. How long will it take to have more consultations? That is a concern.
My overriding concern is that the track record of the Gambling Commission hitherto has been very dilatory. A lot of the toxicity in the gambling sector was due to the Gambling Commission being asleep on the job in those days. It has certainly improved its performance, but I seek assurances from the Minister that its feet will be held to the fire in a way that they have not been hitherto, given the need to reduce harm as soon as possible. I am sure that the message from the House at the end of this session will be: please get on with it now.
Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
I had the pleasure of serving on your Lordships’ committee that looked into this matter, under the chairmanship of my noble friend. I am pleased to say that the more than 50 recommendations of its report have been taken forward in this work. We want new protections to be in force quickly. As your Lordships’ committee, and my noble friend, pointed out, many of these new protections do not require waiting for primary legislation. We will bring forward changes through Gambling Commission licence conditions for operators and through secondary legislation. For measures that require primary legislation, that will be when parliamentary time allows.
The commission has taken a more interventionist and aggressive stance. In 2022-23, operators were required to pay more than £60 million in penalties, with William Hill recently paying a record £19.2 million because of its failings. The commission is taking the action we need, and Ministers meet its chief exec and chairman regularly to continue to discuss that.
Gambling Harm (Social and Economic Impact of the Gambling Industry Committee Report)
Lord Grade of Yarmouth Excerpts(2 years ago)
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Lord Grade of Yarmouth
That the Grand Committee takes note of the Report from the Select Committee on the Social and Economic Impact of the Gambling Industry Gambling Harm—Time for Action (Session 2019–21, HL Paper 79).
Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Con)
My Lords, it is now three years since, out of the blue, I was appointed chairman of the Select Committee on the Social and Economic Impact of the Gambling Industry. Being chairman of this committee taught me a number of things. The first was how Members of your Lordships’ House, of all parties and none, can come together as a committee to pool their diverse knowledge and experience and produce a unanimous report on such a complex, contentious and important subject—a matter of life and death. I am immensely grateful to all the most diligent members of the committee who worked with me on this inquiry. The second thing that I learned was the importance of the large volume of written and oral evidence that we received from all interested parties in the sector, which we were able to evaluate and on which our report is, I hope, securely based. The third thing that I discovered as our inquiry progressed was how urgent is the need for action—a matter to which I shall return.
I start by making clear what the committee did not do: we did not recommend preventing gambling. For those who enjoy it, we recommended nothing to make it less enjoyable. Everyone spends money on things that they enjoy, such as travel, sport, the arts and other things, and, if people wish to spend their money on gambling, that is their prerogative. But “affordability is absolutely key”—that was said to us in evidence by the then CEO of one of the largest gambling operators. The problems start the moment someone begins to spend on gambling more than they might otherwise happily and safely spend on any other leisure activity. As we heard time and time again in evidence, once the problems start they escalate until, in too many cases, they get out of hand and what was once an enjoyable leisure activity becomes an addiction.
As with so many addictions, things can deteriorate disastrously and quickly but with gambling, unlike other addictions, this can happen unknown to even the closest family and friends. The committee held an informal meeting with the families of gamblers who had taken their own lives and heard heart-rending stories of how they discovered only after the deaths of their loved ones that their husbands, sons or brothers had been gambling far beyond their means. We also took formal evidence on this, and I pay particular tribute to Charles and Liz Ritchie, whose son Jack took his own life at the age of 24. They have set up a charity, Gambling with Lives, so that other parents and relations in the same situation can join with them to promote reform of the law and regulations and improve the treatment available to problem gamblers.
What is the size of the problem? As I said, our inquiry was entirely evidence-based, as it should be. Although some of the evidence is conflicting, the best estimate is that some 0.7% of the adult population—about 340,000 people—are problem gamblers. Some 55,000 of those are schoolchildren aged 11 to 16. In excess of 2 million family and friends are affected by harm to physical and mental health, loss of savings and homes, loss of jobs, criminal activity, family breakdown and sometimes, tragically, ultimately death.
When we said in our report that, on average, one problem gambler committed suicide every day, a fact-checking organisation wrote to take issue with us. It said that the annual figure was only 250—as if that was acceptable. In fact, our evidence was that between 250 and 650 people commit suicide every year. Since we reported, a survey by Public Health England has estimated that there are 409 suicides associated with problem gambling each year in England alone. Since our committee was set up three years ago, not less than a thousand young men—it is almost invariably young men—will have taken their own lives, and this will continue for as long as nothing is done.
Who, then, should be taking action to ensure that no one gambles more than they can afford? All of us, of course, but principally the industry, the Gambling Commission and, ultimately, the Government. First, on the industry, it will take every opportunity to tell you that problem gamblers are only a small number compared to the many who enjoy an innocent flutter. It will not be so keen to tell you that although only a small proportion gamble excessively, the profit from those gamblers is out of all proportion to their number. The greater the problem, the higher the profit.
The industry’s story—in particular the story of the Betting and Gaming Council, the trade body—is that it recognises the problem but that much has already been done on a voluntary basis. The industry accepts that more needs to be done but says that it is making a major contribution to research and treatment, while working with the Gambling Commission and the Government to change law and practice so that problem gambling can be reduced. The industry welcomes the Government’s review of the Gambling Act, which will give it another opportunity to argue that a few small changes—preferably on a voluntary basis—are all that is needed. I call this approach “confess and avoid”.
Nobody, problem gambler or not, can place a bet unless an operator is prepared to accept that gamble. The operators are ultimately in control. They have an immense amount of data about their customers, especially those gambling online, which is where most gambling happens these days. They know how much their customers spend, their spending patterns and the time they spend gambling. They know who spends three hours gambling at night and who gambles heavily immediately after payday. They can access detailed information on a customer’s financial situation from bank statements, proof of income and credit checks. They know whether a customer has previously self-excluded or tried to do so, and whether a customer has more than one account with them or with other operators. They know the transaction history and risk indicators. They already have to do money-laundering checks. They could be using all their information to make sure that they accept bets only from those who can afford it. If in doubt, they should refuse the bet. Since they will not do this voluntarily, the rules must be changed to force them to do so.
One obstacle that the sector has repeatedly thrown up is the issue of data protection. It points out, correctly, that most problem gamblers have accounts with more than one operator; it says that no single operator can deal with affordability issues if it does not have the whole picture. Operators told us in evidence that they could not share the information they have with other operators. We put this to the Information Commissioner’s Office, and the ICO told us categorically that data protection legislation does not prevent gambling operators sharing the personal data of vulnerable users. That was two years ago.
Since then, there have been tripartite conversations between the industry, the ICO and the Gambling Commission to formulate ways in which data can be processed, exchanged and used. The ICO is there in an advisory capacity, and it is not for it to take the initiative. The industry has no incentive to advance matters. The Gambling Commission, which should be taking matters forward, seems to detect no great need for urgency. That is why the exchange of data is still very partial and very patchy.
I harbour a faint hope that, when my noble friend the Minister replies to this debate, he will tell us what the Government have in mind as a solution to this crucial issue. I fear, however, that your Lordships will be told in reply to this and many other questions that we will raise that we must wait even longer for the White Paper, when all will be revealed.
I can already confidently identify one major failing in the White Paper: its title. The whole exercise is labelled a review of the Gambling Act 2005. It is nice and catchy to say and a good soundbite that the Act is an analogue law in a digital age. That is true, but the full truth is much more nuanced. Although in 2005 the smartphone—in this context, a betting shop in every teenager’s pocket—was in its infancy, the Act had flexibility built into it. It is indeed a law passed in a largely analogue age, but it was already able to cope with most digital developments. It is not the Act itself that is at fault; the fault lies with those who have failed to use the powers already enshrined in it.
The Act gives the Gambling Commission almost total control of licensing conditions and codes of practice. The commission has always had the power needed to enforce them, with the ultimate sanction of suspension or removal of an operator’s licence. By amending the licence conditions as developments occurred, it could have kept pace with them. It could have dealt with most of the affordability issues that I have mentioned. To be fair, it has tightened the rules on the age and identity checks that operators must do before allowing someone to gamble online. It has also banned the use of credit cards for betting—at last. But so much more could have been done. So many lives might have been saved. The Government need to address the lack of accountability of the gambling regulator.
Among the many recommendations that the committee made, the Gambling Commission could have established a system for testing all new games against a series of harm indicators, including their addictiveness and whether they will appeal to children, and not approving a game that scores too highly on the harm indicators. It could have introduced equalisation of speed of play and spin, so that no game can be played quicker online than in a physical casino, betting shop or bingo hall. It could have required the licensing of affiliates. It could have prohibited bet-to-view and other inducements. It could have required every operator that has been notified of an individual’s self-exclusion not to send them any communications during the period of self-exclusion and thereafter to do so only if the individual removes the self-exclusion. All of this would have led to a significant reduction in problem gambling—and it still could, if action is taken now.
There are inevitably changes—just a handful—that need primary legislation. One of these is the setting up of a statutory gambling ombudsman service to settle disputes between gambling operators and gamblers. This is not a matter for the regulator. It is right that the Gambling Commission should adjudicate on breaches of licence conditions, such as when Sky Betting & Gaming distributed a promotional offer of “Bet £5, get 100 free spins” to 41,395 self-excluded customers and a quarter of a million customers who had unsubscribed from the operator’s marketing emails. However, where a punter has lost money or been otherwise affected by the failures of an industry giant, it is right that there should be an ombudsman to adjudicate, similar to the Financial Ombudsman Service.
It would also take primary legislation to create a duty of care owed by operators to their customers. To be clear, I am not just referring to operators being careful of the interests of their customers; I am talking about a duty, the breach of which could give rise to proceedings brought by a customer against an operator for breach of statutory duty. But, I repeat, the changes that need primary legislation are very few.
I conclude with a little history. It was in 1999 that Ministers of the Labour Government first considered reviewing and liberalising the law on gambling. The Budd review reported in 2001, a draft Bill was published in November 2003 and it was sent to a pre-legislative Joint Committee, which reported in April 2004. The Bill received Royal Assent in April 2005 but did not come into force until September 2007—eight years after reform was first proposed.
Fast forward 20 years: the Government promised a review of the Gambling Act in their manifesto before the 2019 election, as did the other major parties. The consultation paper was not issued until a year later. The consultation closed in March 2021, more than a year ago. A White Paper was promised by the end of that year; we are now promised it next month. If primary legislation is needed, it will be lucky to get a slot next Session but might be passed by the end of this Parliament in 2024. If, as in the case of the 2005 Act, we have to wait another two years before it is brought into force, that takes us to 2026—seven years after the first undertakings for reform. Given the gambling-related suicide rates, that cannot be acceptable.
If, in replying to this debate, the Minister tells the Grand Committee that reform of the Gambling Act itself needs to wait for an opportunity for primary legislation, that will of course be true, since the Act can be amended only by further primary legislation, but if my noble friend tells us that other gambling reform must also wait, I shall be deeply disappointed—as, I am sure, all the members of my committee will be. As I have tried to explain, so much could be done—indeed, could already have been done—by Ministers, but mostly by the Gambling Commission with the powers that it already has. The title of the committee’s report was Time for Action. That was two years ago. Meanwhile, today, like every other day, a young problem gambler may already have taken his own life. I beg to move.
Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Con)
My Lords, I have no desire to impair those who are addicted to ping-pong by continuing their withdrawal this afternoon. At the risk of sounding like an Oscar winner, I have to thank my agent—no, I thank all those who have taken part, particularly the absolutely brilliant committee, and the brilliant team behind it, which produced this report. On the evidence of what my noble friend the Minister said, I do not think that this report is going to languish on the shelves of government departments like too many other Select Committee reports which leave this great House. I am encouraged by my noble friend’s response. To paraphrase the late, great Bernard Levin, a moron in a hurry would get the messages that have emanated from this debate today.
I thank everybody who has taken part. This is a difficult subject, and I am very grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, for addressing the balance and reminding us of civil liberties and so on in this debate. However, in trying to compare these activities with shopping and other things, we must not forget that gambling can have a toxic side-effect. That is proven over and again, and I do not think anybody in this Room or outside it would wish to deny that fact. We have a duty of care to do what we can to reduce the incidence of harm and addiction.
I am very proud of this report, and I hope that all my colleagues share that feeling. It was unanimous. The task of chairing the committee was not difficult because of the brain power and commitment of all its members. I thank my noble friend the Minister for his reply. I am encouraged, but your Lordships can rest assured that the noble Lord, Lord Foster, and the group that he has put together will be holding the Government’s and the Gambling Commission’s feet to the fire. We look for immediate action, and we look forward to the White Paper. Again, I thank everybody who has taken part.
Gambling Act 2005
Lord Grade of Yarmouth Excerpts(2 years, 2 months ago)
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Noble Lords
Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Con)
More ships!
I thank my noble friend the Minister for that response. One of the lessons of the implications of the outdated nature of the 2005 Gambling Act, which the Government are addressing, is that there was a serious lack of accountability on the Gambling Commission. It had many powers to stop many of the abuses that have led to such tragedies as we have heard and as we read about in the newspapers almost every day. We are very interested to know what the Government can do to increase the accountability of the regulator in this sector.
Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
The Gambling Act review is looking at the Gambling Commission’s powers and resources, and how it uses them. The Commission has a new chairman and chief executive, who will be working closely with DCMS as they implement their vision for the organisation, but between April 2020 and March 2021 the commission imposed more than £30 million in financial penalties for breaches of its licensing conditions.
BBC Funding
Lord Grade of Yarmouth Excerpts(2 years, 3 months ago)
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Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
My Lords, Parliament is lucky to have a Bottomley in each House and I have the pleasure of calling them both friends. I will take the noble Lord’s suggestion about how we might have the debate that the Secretary of State has said we want to have about future funding back to the department. I welcome the fact that he is beginning to engage with it and look forward to having that debate with noble Lords across the House.
Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Con)
My Lords, I have some difficulty accepting the criticism of intimidation of the BBC from noble Lords opposite. I seem to recall that the most dangerous moment in the whole history of the BBC was when Prime Minister Blair and his untrained attack Doberman, Alastair Campbell, attacked the BBC over the Gilligan broadcast about weapons of mass destruction. It brought the corporation to its knees to the extent that the chairman and the director-general resigned within 24 hours. The Blair Government were so desperate at what they had done to the BBC that they sent for me to go in and try to sort it out—that is how desperate they were.
That said, one would get the notion from listening to some of the comments around this House this evening that the BBC is impoverished by this settlement. Does the Minister agree that £3.7 billion in a very crowded marketplace of public intervention is a surprisingly good settlement? I wish those in the BBC who asked for more money from the Government would watch their own news bulletins and see what is going on, with people having to decide whether to heat or eat, and the increased use of food banks. There is a complete lack of reality about what is going on in Britain with this regressive tax. I believe in the BBC and I stand with everybody in this House who supports it, but this is not the time for it to be asking for more money. Does the Minister agree that the Secretary of State’s decision to fire the starting pistol for the big debate about what we want from the BBC and how we pay for it is a very good step in the right direction and very timely?
Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
My noble friend makes two pertinent points on the basis of his considerable experience. As I said, it is not unusual for this much-loved, much-cherished national institution to attract political comment from all quarters from time to time. That is as it should be. We all do it from a position of wanting the best for the corporation and to ensure that it can survive and thrive for its next 100 years. My noble friend is right to reinforce the point that £3.7 billion from licence fee payers this year, at a time when people’s bills and costs of living are rising, is a fair settlement that enables the BBC to continue doing the excellent things that it does, but in a way that shows that it understands how businesses and households across the country are having to tighten their belts—looking at how they can do what they do more efficiently and get more bang for their buck.
Online Sexual Harassment of Children
Lord Grade of Yarmouth Excerpts(2 years, 3 months ago)
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Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
The noble Baroness is right: it is by the end of secondary school that this should have been achieved, but of course the process begins earlier. One finding in the Children’s Commissioner’s report is that parents often underestimate the extent to which, and the age at which, their children are coming into contact with pornography and other online harms. Her very useful report gives practical advice to parents about how they can start having those conversations in an age-appropriate way.
Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Con)
My Lords, can my noble friend the Minister reassure the House that while, quite commendably, the accent is on pornography and other harms, gambling is also a very serious issue online? Loot boxes, which do not come under the Gambling Act, are in fact the entry point for kids to learn how to gamble.
Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
That is one reason why the online safety Bill will take the approach of setting out in secondary legislation the sorts of harms that can affect children and other vulnerable people—and indeed all internet users—so that we can keep on top of emerging threats and make sure that our legislation does so as well.
UK Journalism (Communications and Digital Committee Report)
Lord Grade of Yarmouth Excerpts(2 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Con)
I, too, add my congratulations to my former Whip, the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson; I am glad I did not impede his progress up the greasy pole here in your Lordships’ Chamber. My entry into journalism was in 1960. I joined Hugh Cudlipp’s fantastic Daily Mirror enterprise. I did six years as a trainee sports journalist, and when I left, we were selling 5.25 million copies every day. I left, and look what happened—it is rather sad.
My natural state is combative, and I read the report of my noble friend Lord Gilbert’s committee ready to take up arms against some of its recommendations. I was terribly disappointed. I agree with every single word of the report; I agree with everything that has been said thus far; I am hoping that somebody will say something I disagree with in the remaining time.
I shall concentrate on the issues of copyright and dominant positions. Copyright means nothing to the new media internet giants. When I was at ITV the last time, I was at an internet conference, I was asked about Google, et cetera, and I described them as “parasites”. I said that they feed off other people’s investment; they make money out of the investments that other people make. I was immediately invited to lunch by the head of Google in Europe, who said to me, “Michael, what’s your problem?” I said, “Well, you had 300 million hits with Susan Boyle on ‘Britain’s Got Talent’. Nobody asked me if you could use it. We have invested tens of millions of pounds in this show, and you’ve made a fortune out of it; we have got nothing out of it.” “Well,” he said, “if you want it taken down, just give me a call and we’ll take it down.” “Oh”, I said , “so if I go to Harrods and steal a gold watch and they ring me up and say ‘Can we have it back?’ and I give it back, it’s not a crime?” I said, “You’re stealing other people’s material.”
That is compounded by the fact that they have been allowed to achieve what no one—not even my noble friend Lord Faulks—could argue is not a dominant position. I have spent many hours in competition arguments about defining the market and what is a dominant position. This is the most dominant position that you could imagine. They abuse their market position by stealing other people’s material and short-changing them by just giving them a tip when they steal their material, publish it and make money through advertising—so the advertising market needs looking at very quickly.
Regulation is desperately needed. In the history of broadcasting and the media, regulation and statutes always lag behind the way the market and technology move, but there is no time to lose. I urge the Government to read every line of this excellent report again and again and take action. I ask the Minister to give us his assurance that, when he goes back to the office, he will bang the desk.
Music Festivals: Covid-19-related Cancellations
Lord Grade of Yarmouth Excerpts(3 years ago)
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Baroness Barran (Con)
The Government have been very clear in acknowledging the multiple challenges that my noble friend has outlined. That is why we have announced major funding for the sector, particularly through the Culture Recovery Fund and, most recently, in the expansion of the self-employed income support scheme. We continue to work closely with the sector to ensure that we can respond as needed.
Lord Grade of Yarmouth (Con) [V]
I declare my interest as a theatre producer and as chair of a leading live entertainment marketing company. The theatre sector—certainly the whole of the commercial sector—depends to a large extent on angels investing. Angels have always invested on the basis that a show can get business interruption insurance. I do not understand, and I wonder whether the Minister could explain, why the Government cannot prevail on insurance companies to do what their business is, which is to insure people. There may be an additional cost, but it seems to me that the problem lies with the insurance companies, not the Government.
Baroness Barran (Con)
I do not think this is about pointing a finger in one direction or another. We are trying to find a solution to this issue and are working with all the key stakeholders to do so.