Royal Albert Hall Bill [HL]

Lord Etherton Excerpts

Thursday 19th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Etherton (CB)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to all Members who have spoken before me, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Harrington, for his introduction. I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson, who has pursued the issues relating to the constitution of the Albert Hall for many years. One way or another, they have covered virtually all the issues, so I can be relatively brief. I want to concentrate on what, from a legal perspective, are the very simple issues involved in this matter. I do not want to enter into a close analysis of the merits of this private Bill. That is the task of the Opposed Private Bill Committee, which will hear detailed submissions and receive evidence I have not seen, and no doubt will have the benefit of legal advice. However, it is important to make two general points that are relevant to the context of the Bill and that the Opposed Private Bill Committee will undoubtedly wish to bear in mind when it considers the merits of the Bill and the petition against it.

As has been said, the Albert Hall, called the corporation, is in legal terms a most unusual entity—unique, in fact. It was registered as a charity in 1967. It has all the usual financial benefits of a charity and has received large sums of public money for refurbishment and improvement. There are two fundamental legal principles of charity law that are relevant to any consideration of the Bill and of any other decisions made by the council of the corporation. First, an entity can be charitable only if it is wholly and exclusively charitable. This does not prevent a charity having a trading arm, the profits of which are applied exclusively for the purposes of the charity. However, in the case of the Albert Hall, the seat-owners, who are the members of the corporation and form a majority on the governing council, are able to—and many do—treat their seats as investments, generating a profit by selling tickets on the open market for events the seat-owners do not wish to attend. In this way, this charitable corporation provides the means by which the members of the charity can make a purely private profit.

This leads directly on to the second very basic principle, which has been mentioned a number of times. It is a basic principle of trust law that the trustees, whatever they are called—board members, council members or whatever—must not place themselves in a position in which their private interests may conflict with their overriding obligation to further the interest of the charity. This is usually expressed in the pithy statement that trustees must not place themselves in a position where there is a conflict between interest and duty. Plainly, as we have heard, there is a real issue in relation to that point. The power to run the Albert Hall is vested in its members. The members are the seat-holders. The council of the corporation comprises 18 members and five appointed non-members. On the face of it, the presence of members on the council who have profited, intend to profit or wish to profit from their seats by selling tickets for them on the open market involves a clear potential conflict between personal interest and their duty to act solely in the interests of the charity.

This is, on any footing, an extraordinary legal situation. How has it arisen? As has been referred to, the first reason is historical: the building of the Albert Hall, which opened in 1871, was funded by subscribers in consideration of being granted permanent seats. As has been said, 329 members hold over 1,200 seats. The second reason, which was referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Stowell of Beeston, concerns the limited oversight of the Charity Commissioners over the corporation. The Charity Commission does have power to create schemes to make alterations to the management or other terms of a charity. In the case of the Albert Hall, it can under the statutory constitution relating to the corporation—in Schedule 2 to the Royal Albert Hall Act 1966—only do so on the application of the council.

As the noble Baroness mentioned, the Charity Commissioners wanted to make a reference to the charity tribunal, but under the Charities Act 2011 they could do so only with the consent of the Attorney-General. Permission has been sought in the past, but on the last occasion relating to the Albert Hall, after a number of years without any response whatever, permission was refused by the Attorney-General without any explanation at all. This was really quite a scandalous approach to a serious issue.

I hope that I have said enough—together with everything everybody else has said—to explain why I respectfully recommend that, when considering the present Bill and the opposing petition, the Opposed Bill Committee should be careful to ensure that the charitable objects of the corporation will always have priority over the actual or potential private financial interests of members.

Charities Bill [HL]

Lord Etherton Excerpts

Monday 10th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, in moving that the Bill do now pass, I want to take the opportunity to express some thanks, first to my noble friend Lady Barran, who so ably guided the Bill through its Second Reading and the beginning of the committee’s evidence sessions. Her dedication to and personal experience in the charity sector is evident, and I know that she was pleased to be the Minister to set this Bill on its way. I am grateful also to all Members of your Lordships’ House who have spoken on it. I draw attention especially to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Etherton, who chaired the Special Public Bill Committee which examined the Bill, and to the members of that committee, my noble friends Lord Bellingham, Lord Cruddas, Lady Fullbrook and Lord Sharpe of Epsom, the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Barker and Lady Goudie. I also pay particular tribute to my noble friend Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, who inspired the Law Commission to take on this project in the first place. He has, as ever, eloquently and doggedly conveyed his expertise and experience in these debates. Although I am afraid that we did not agree on absolutely everything, I certainly appreciated the way in which he prosecuted his case and am grateful for his invaluable perspective on the Bill.

I thank all those behind the scenes, the staff in your Lordships’ House and colleagues from the Law Commission, the Charity Commission, Parliamentary Counsel and DCMS, for their work.

The passage of this Bill has demonstrated the passion and expertise of your Lordships’ House and its Members in relation to charities. It will make a great a difference to a number of charities, and I hope to see it on the statute book very soon.

[Lord Etherton (CB)]

This Bill will be warmly welcomed by the charity sector. As chair of the Special Public Bill Committee, I thank the Minister and, as he said, his predecessor, the noble Baroness, Lady Barran, for their membership of the committee and their engagement with it. I join the Minister in thanking the members of the committee, who had to consider some really quite difficult technical evidence, as well as those who gave written and oral evidence. Professor Hopkins and Daniel Robinson of the Law Commission were extremely helpful. Finally, and certainly not least, I know the committee would want me to thank expressly Alasdair Love, the clerk to the committee, who so ably supported us in so many ways.

[Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend was kind enough to mention my involvement. This is an excellent piece of legislation which will be of great benefit to the charity sector. Obviously, I regret that I was unable to persuade the Government of the importance of my amendment, but that particular recalcitrant attitude should not disguise the fact that my noble friend was extremely courteous and helpful in explaining the Government’s position. I am grateful to him for that, and I wish the Bill a speedy passage into law.

Charities Bill [HL]

Lord Etherton Excerpts

Thursday 18th November 2021 Other Business

Tabled by

[Lord Etherton]

6: After Clause 36, insert the following new Clause—
“References to Tribunal by the Commission
In section 325 of the Charities Act 2011, after subsection (2) insert—“(2A) If, within 60 days of receipt by the Attorney General of a request to consent to make such a reference, the Attorney General has neither given nor refused consent, authorisation will be deemed to have been given.(2B) If the Attorney General refuses consent within such period of 60 days, the Attorney General must publish a comprehensive statement of the Attorney General’s analysis and of the reasons for the refusal.””Member’s explanatory statement
The proposed new subsection 325(2A) of the 2011 Act provides an exception to the prohibition on the Charity Commission making a reference to the Tribunal without the consent of the Attorney General. It provides that where the Attorney General has neither refused nor granted consent within 60 days consent will be deemed to have been given. The proposed new subsection 325(2B) stipulates that the reasons for any refusal of consent must be published.

Dormant Assets Bill [HL]

Lord Etherton Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 21st June 2021 Grand Committee

[Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)]

My Lords, I really do not have anything extra to add to my noble friend Lord Bassam’s comments. The proposed clause is about a review of the functionality of the scheme, so it does not really get to the issues that I referred to earlier, so I think that I will leave it there. I am happy to support the amendment.

[Lord Etherton (CB)]

My Lords, I shall address Amendment 62. Like other amendments in this group, especially those of the noble Lord, Lord Bassam of Brighton, and the joint amendment of the noble Baronesses, Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted and Lady Kramer, Amendment 62 provides for a general review of the dormant assets scheme. Some of the other amendments are framed in rather narrower terms—for example, a review of whether further assets should be added—but I am looking at the issue of a general review in Amendment 62, as do the other amendments that I have referred to.

As a matter of principle and policy, the desirability of a review has already been recognised and provided for in Section 14 of the 2008 Act. Section 14(1)(a) provided:

“The Treasury shall carry out a review of … the operation of this Part”.


Section 14 is necessarily limited to the assets specified in the 2008 Act; it does not extend to any additional dormant assets subsequently added to the scheme under the Bill. But I would suggest that, by parity of reason and policy, there should be a provision in the Bill for a review of the scheme as enlarged by the Bill—or indeed if there are any further assets in the future to be transferred.

Now, I confess that I have made a mistake—a technical mistake, I suppose it could be called—in my amendment, in that the review under Section 14 of the 2008 Act was to be completed

“within three years from the date when a reclaim fund is first authorised.”

I have not seen that review, but I assume that it was duly conducted. Technically, therefore, I suppose, the section is spent. That is, presumably, why it is not repealed.

It would be possible, and quite easy, to extend Section 14 of the 2008 Act to Part 1, which is what I suggest by my amendment, just by extending the date for completion of the review specified in Section 14. I failed to deal with that in my proposed amendment but, having considered the other proposed amendments in this group, I agree that it would be better for there to be an initial review, as there was in Section 14, and then periodic reviews.

As the noble Lord, Lord Bassam of Brighton, said, there is minimal disagreement between people about what the time period should be. Some have suggested that there should be a general review within two years or three years and then periodic reviews thereafter every five years or three years. My alteration is minimalist because Section 14 provided for only one review, not periodic reviews, so that, if we were to extend the date for the review, as I said would be possible, there would be only one review. It seems sensible that there should be periodic reviews, whatever the period is, and I do not feel it is necessary for me today to specify whether I think it should be three, four or five years.

There is a difference between all the amendments proposed in this group about what is specially to be included in any review. The amendments I have mentioned provide for a general review and then the provisions go on to say, “bearing mind specifically x, y and z”. Section 14 of the 2008 Act is rather narrow, but it covers the identification of transferor banks and building societies.

Amendment 45, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, would determine whether additional assets can be covered by the scheme. I suggest, with respect, that that is too narrow. The noble Lord, Lord Bassam of Brighton, specifically addresses that purpose and the extent to which new dormant assets since the last review have contributed to meeting the underlying policy objectives. That is wider than Section 14 and is quite a wide objective. The amendment tabled by the noble Baronesses, Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted and Lady Kramer, addresses wider issues and has a structure similar to Section 14 of the 2008 Act.

I suppose this is in a sense taking up a comment made by the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton. My amendment is directed in terms of mentioning certain matters that must be specifically included in the general review. It is looking at identifying where these various assets have come from, where they have gone to and what has happened to them. We need to understand that in order to see why there are dormant assets. It is quite an important process to go through to identify how many there are and what proportion of them have come from, for example, banks, pension funds, ISAs or whatever it may be, and then we want to know why. If, for example, the information reveals a great disparity between where the assets have come from, that would raise a question that is worth investigating, and then we can go down the route that the noble Lord, Lord Davies, suggested and ask why this category produces so many dormant assets. I have also said that one should identify what has been spent in relation to each category of person and activity and what assets have been successfully claimed.

In subsections (2)(a) and (2)(b) of my proposed new clause, I have sought to get together enough information to understand whether we can learn something about why there are these dominant assets so that Parliament can identify whether some policy is being pursued that is not explicitly apparent in the way that the asset is applied. Having fully admitted that my own amendment is, to the extent I have mentioned, defective—I also think it is too narrow now—I certainly support the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Bassam of Brighton, that, together, surely we ought to be able to arrive at a consensus as to what should be covered.

Digital Identification Protocol

Lord Etherton Excerpts

Thursday 20th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I absolutely do not accept the noble Lord’s assertion about the political complexion of recent appointments. All go through the public appointments process and are entirely transparent.

[Lord Etherton (CB)]

My Lords, live automated recognition technology is currently on trial by the police, under the supervision and care of the Surveillance Commissioner. Is it envisaged that digitised identity will similarly be subject to the remit of the commissioner, or will they be run as completely separate issues of digitisation?