Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland: Energy Supply Shortfalls

Lord Empey Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I cannot give the noble Baroness an absolute guarantee but it will not happen unless there is a national emergency. We have made agreements with the operators that, in the unlikely event of a supply shortage to the United Kingdom as a whole, that pain will need to be shared equally but, of course, it is not our intention for this to happen.

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that the subject of energy is devolved to Northern Ireland. There is currently no Energy Minister; I held that role for some time. What powers of intervention does the Minister have in the event of an interruption to supply or another emergency in the absence of a Northern Ireland Executive?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord asks a very good question, given his experience. We keep these matters under constant review, but both Northern Ireland and the Republic depend on Great Britain for supply of gas and certain amounts of electricity. All the transmission system operators and civil servants on both sides of the border are working very closely together to make sure we plan for any operational difficulties.

Economic Crime (Transparency and Enforcement) Bill

Lord Empey Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 14th March 2022 Lords Chamber

Again, with the information and, hopefully, reassurances that I have been able to provide to the House, I hope that noble Lords will feel able not to press their amendments.

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

My Lords, I think that everybody in this House, as was the case last week, is on the same page, and we do not want to be seen to be arguing amongst ourselves until the early hours of the morning about something that is so significant. But can I ask the Minister if he and his colleagues in his department will keep a rolling review of this going, even if the gap between this legislation and the next piece of legislation is comparatively short? The last thing we would want is to see some oligarch on the front page of a national newspaper smirking that he or she had circumvented and found some way of actually getting around the will of Parliament and humiliating us. It would be seen, I think, as a failure of policy. I am sure that the Minister is very conscious of that, but it would be helpful if he could tell us that his department will monitor this on an ongoing basis, and not deal with this as a one-off and just leave it to the next piece of legislation.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, perhaps I could just add to what the noble Lord has just said. The Minister mentioned the regulations which are possible post the passing of the Bill. Will he undertake to review some of the points made during the passage of this Bill and consider whether or not regulations might be needed to fill certain gaps?

--- Later in debate ---

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, raised a valid point about the timing of the new Bill. I am sure she will appreciate that I cannot confirm the specifics of that, but she has made that point and I assure her I will take it back—others have noted its importance. Equally, I respect and have regard for your Lordships’ House and all the contributions made during the course of the Bill, recognising the importance of holding the Government to account on these important issues. The passage of the Bill has demonstrated not just the accountability of the Government to your Lordships’ House, but your Lordships’ House at its best in how we work together when it is required.

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

Before the Minister sits down, while progress has been made on providing funding for the investigatory bodies, given that we expect imminent and immediate impact on investigations from the passage of the Bill, what assurance can he give the Committee that personnel with the necessary qualifications and experience will be available in the very short term, even though the funding may be following them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, within the agencies, particularly the NCA, of course we have great expertise and insights. I cannot provide the noble Lord with specific numbers but, as I said earlier, the Government very much stand by the principle that in introducing these regulations and these new powers, and when it comes to the implementation of our sanctions policy, we need to ensure that we are fully and appropriately resourced so that those people who are sanctioned can be acted upon.

Economic Crime (Transparency and Enforcement) Bill

Lord Empey Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 9th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

My Lords, there have been many excellent speeches this evening from people who have pointed out deficiencies in the legislation. I sincerely hope that the Government, over the weekend and before Committee, will listen to what has been said and make running repairs as required. If ever there was a case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted, this is it. We have known for years what people were up to in this city and this country, and we have turned a blind eye. Now, it has come back to haunt us. I must point out to colleagues that the warning signs have been there. We know that this legislation, however belated, is fundamentally the right way to go, and I support the principle of it. However, I sincerely hope that the valid points which have been made in some excellent speeches will be listened to and acted upon as we move towards the conclusion of the Bill’s legislative stages.

I was privileged to serve on your Lordships’ Select Committee that undertook post-legislative scrutiny of the Bribery Act, under the chairmanship of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Saville of Newdigate. We were looking at how the legislation had been operating over a five-year period. In some respects, we probably should have looked at it at a slightly later stage. However, one thing which stood out from our committee’s inquiry—and which is again before us tonight—is the total inadequacy of the enforcement resource involved and required. We were looking at bribery in the context of ordinary commercial activities. We were not looking at it in terms of something very specific, as we are tonight. At that stage, we had representatives come before the committee pointing out that they just did not have the resources. We all know that if you are going to carry out an inquiry—whether it involves the police, the National Crime Agency or another organisation—it takes time. But we are giving half a year for people to go and do what they do best. I do not believe for one minute that, if they ring up or knock on the door of some of the professional houses in this city, they will be turned away for advice or help. They will get the best that money can buy. I sincerely ask the Government to look very closely at that.

In her opening remarks, the Minister referred to legislative consent motions from the devolved jurisdictions. I understand that the timescale was such that this has not been possible. However, can the Minister assure the House that we will not be leaving any back doors open as this legislation proceeds, so that part of our country could be used in a roundabout way to thwart its purposes? I hope that we can have an assurance to that effect.

The Minister will also be wearing his other hat, as Energy Minister. The war has been possible because it has been funded by the sale of fossil fuels by Russia, which accounts for some 65% to 70% of its economy. Unfortunately and understandably, we had COP 26 and a general view in this country and around the world that we must move away from our dependency on fossil fuels. As a former Energy Minister, I fully understand and accept that. However, we have not advanced to the point where we can survive in this country without almost 100% fossil fuel back-up, because wind is not dependable in all circumstances and we have not sufficiently developed wave and tidal power. These are 10 to 15 years away.

I understand that, being a relatively small country geographically speaking, things like fracking and the development of resources on land and in our own North Sea are controversial. But the fact remains that next week, we are going to pump concrete into wells in the north-west of England, which means that it will no longer be possible to extract gas from them. At the same time, we are leaving ourselves and our European partners very dependent on gas. There have been some disastrous decisions, particularly in Germany regarding the development of its energy policies. I ask the Minister to address that issue, because although it is not quite within the remit of the Bill, it is fundamental. Where are we going to get our resources from? They are not going to appear out of nowhere.

I support the fundamental principle of the Bill, but please can we have some clarity—if not tonight then as we move through the remaining stages—on what plan is in place to ensure that the bodies being given a role under this legislation will have the resources to investigate and enforce? Those are roles that bodies such as Companies House do not have. Where are the people who will be doing this work going to come from? Who, on the Monday morning after the Bill is passed, is going to open the file and start an inquiry? Where are they? That is very much the message that we in the post-legislative scrutiny committee got from looking at the Bribery Act: that the resources are not there to match our ambition. I hope the Minister can reassure the House when he winds up.

Subsidy Control Bill

Lord Empey Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 7th February 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I was pleased to add my name to the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Dodds. It is particularly because of the situation now in Northern Ireland that many of us want to raise this issue at every opportunity—it was raised also at Second Reading. I accept from the beginning that the Government are trying to deal with some of the problems that have come about. They were perhaps seen some time ago, but the Government are now trying to deal with the realities. The noble Lord, Lord Dodds, has given a clear outline of the detail of how the current situation will affect business in Northern Ireland. I want to speak more from the point of view of morality—the idea that, once again, Northern Ireland is being treated so differently and so separately from the rest of the United Kingdom.

At Second Reading, the Minister said—it was said a number of times:

“We are seizing the opportunities of Brexit.”—[Official Report, 19/1/22; col. 1712.]


As someone who was a passionate supporter of Brexit, I want to seize those opportunities, and I want the people of Northern Ireland to be able to seize them, but it is clear that we will have a different regime and that businesses will lose out, whatever happens, unless this is changed. It is a pity that we could not have a real debate and a vote on Article 10 at some stage in your Lordships’ House, but I accept that we cannot do it in this Bill.

We have a form of colony in Northern Ireland at the moment. Northern Ireland now has a foreign market, a foreign customs regime and a foreign VAT regime adjudicated by a foreign court, and now we will have foreign state aid. I know that the negotiations that are going on are slightly above the Minister’s pay grade, but I hope that he will do his bit as the Business Minister to realise and understand just how unfair this is for the people of Northern Ireland. I hope that he will be able to give us some comfort as to how the Government are going to take this forward if the negotiations with the European Union get nowhere, as I expect.

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

My Lords, the issue of state aid goes beyond even the points that have already been made, because there is theoretically a possibility of reach-back into Great Britain depending on whether a product was subsidised before it left Great Britain and was part of, or added to, another product of a business in Northern Ireland. The truth is that the Minister does not know the answer to these questions.

I do not understand why there is surprise. The Minister may not wish to comment, but the situation in which we find ourselves is a direct consequence of the proposals made by the Prime Minister to the European Union. He proposed the protocol. When I hear the phrase “Let’s get Brexit done”, it drives me mad. Brexit is done for 97% of the United Kingdom; we are still in the European Union for as much as half of our activities.

This was entirely anticipated, but it was not worked out. So, the protocol came along in late 2019 as the deathbed plan to get Brexit done in a couple of months, and this is one of the pickles we are left in. I may have some issues with the wording of the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, but its heart is in the right place. He said, if I picked him up correctly, that it is a probing amendment to try to get answers. I totally support that; it is the right thing to do.

--- Later in debate ---

Finally, the way that the noble Lord has phrased this amendment means that it would disapply the subsidy control requirements of the Bill applying in Northern Ireland when certain conditions are met, which I am sure was not his intention as he said that this is a probing amendment. This disapplication would not be permitted under the existing trade and co-operation agreement, and therefore I hope that the noble Lord will understand that I currently cannot accept the amendment.

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

Before the noble Lord sits down, the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, said that this is a probing amendment, so we all may have issues with the phraseology but that is not the point. Never mind subsidiaries, which I can understand; if a product is supplied to a company in Northern Ireland as part of creating another product which would then be sold into the European Union, whether or not it is supplied from a subsidiary should not really be relevant. It does not matter where it comes from, if it is subsidised in Great Britain. Surely that is how the European Union will look at it, rather than simply saying that it must be a subsidiary. The Minister might be underestimating the potential for reach back or for the subsidy to be challenged by a competitor within the European Union. The Government are taking too narrow a definition of what may be at risk.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I understand the point the noble Lord is making but, to return to the words I used, there must be a genuine, direct link to Northern Ireland—it cannot be hypothetical or presumed. We have issued detailed guidance on the subject, but we accept that the current situation is not good enough, which is why we are attempting to renegotiate the terms of the protocol, particularly Article 10.

National Minimum Wage (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Lord Empey Excerpts

Monday 1st March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Empey (UUP) [V]]

My Lords, as a number of speakers have said, it is clear that this year is obviously not the year in which decisive steps can be taken on the issues that we are discussing today. So many people are still struggling, particularly with food and accommodation costs. The LPC recognised the necessity of ensuring a balanced decision between the needs of individuals and the ability of the many struggling businesses that employ them to deal with the situation today.

However, there is one aspect of this that I would like the Minister to address in his summing up. Here in Northern Ireland, we had experience of an abuse by a number of employers regarding the accommodation being provided to workers. A practice developed where companies were buying houses in various conditions and cramming a large number of individuals, primarily migrant workers, into those dwellings, and deducting sums from their wages at the end of the week. It became an abuse. Can the Minister tell us what steps are being taken to ensure that the allowance that is provided to cover accommodation costs reflects value for money, and that the employees are not also required to purchase goods from their employer? That is another practice that effectively forced people to shop with their own employer, which can lead to all sorts of abuses.

Other speakers have mentioned enforcement. I would be particularly interested to know whether the enforcement to ensure that there is decent accommodation provided at reasonable rates is happening. Regulation 2(4) increases the offset amount, but that does not indicate the level of quality or value for money. Employers can and have required their employees to live in garages and outhouses that have been converted into accommodation units where large numbers of people are accommodated in appalling conditions; we have seen examples on television.

While this is clearly not the year when we can address the matters in the minds of many Members, that does not prevent us preparing the ground for trying to address the inability of many working people even to feed themselves properly. That is another debate, but can the Minister address the issue of accommodation? Who looks at this issue and, if they find there is inadequate accommodation, what steps are taken to ensure that the employer provides value for money?

Product Safety and Metrology etc. (Amendment etc.) (UK (NI) Indication) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Empey Excerpts

Friday 27th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Empey (UUP) [V]]

The noble Lord, Lord Moylan, made some interesting points at the end of his contribution. The Minister, during his introduction, referred to the UK being a sovereign independent nation once again. However, how can someone from Northern Ireland feel part of that sovereign independent nation when, for several weeks and months in this House, we have been passing secondary legislation that distinguishes us from the rest of the United Kingdom? We are talking today about marks, and the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, makes valid points, but the fact that they are there illustrates the differences that have been created between different parts of the United Kingdom.

As is common to a number of these SIs, the impact assessment refers to how

“relevant EU legislation will continue to apply to Northern Ireland by virtue of the Protocol.”

It is as if the protocol is some kind of wonderful achievement. As far as I am concerned, it is a dagger pointed at the heart of the union, and the fact that we are having these discussions and making these differences illustrates that.

We are now going to have to pile more work and burdens on to our businesses and manufacturers. We are creating a situation where you can run the CE label with the other label for a year. What happens if, over time, differences in standards emerge? Whose standards will prevail? Will it be the Brussels or the UK standard? What will happen if a product made in Northern Ireland falls foul of the regulations that apply in Great Britain? There are no answers to these questions.

The Government have consistently refused to accept the fact that what they have done with the protocol is to turn Northern Ireland into virtually an overseas territory of the European Union with its own set of discrete pieces of legislation. The regulatory regime is to be left in the hands of Brussels. We are still subject to state aid rules where Great Britain will not be, and we have a huge pile of problems that will arise in the next few weeks whereby every tin of baked beans that comes into Northern Ireland will have to be notified to the authorities in advance and be subject to inspection. How under these circumstances, can the Minister maintain that we are in any sense on an equal footing with our colleagues in the rest of the United Kingdom?

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Lord Empey Excerpts

Report stage & Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 23rd November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I begin by echoing my friend, the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes. I, too, am deeply sorry that he is not with us, as he was in such splendid and rumbustious form last week. All I would say to him is, “Haste you back”, and I hope he will be able to take part again on the Floor of the House very shortly.

I also genuinely thank my noble friend Lord Callanan for tabling and moving Amendment 14. That has shown that he and his ministerial colleagues have listened to what was said in your Lordships' House in Committee, and for that I am sure we are all grateful. My noble friend is exactly right when he says in the United Kingdom Parliament—we are not a federation—the buck stops with Westminster. That is entirely right, but there is deep suspicion in many quarters about the word “consult”, because it can have a variety of meanings and interpretations. “Politely inform” is often what people mean by “consult”. That is why I am particularly attracted to the wording of Amendment 20 in the name of the noble Baronesses, Lady Hayter and Lady Finlay, and the noble Lord, Lord Hain. This requires an explanation. It is entirely proper that the buck stops here. It is entirely proper that the ultimate decision is made in Westminster, given the present structure of our United Kingdom, where, as has been said, certain specific powers are devolved, but ultimate power remains here.

Having said all that, it is important that “consult” means consult—discuss, evaluate and determine the merits before a final decision is made. Therefore, I say this to my noble friend: thank you for coming as far as you have. I in no sense question or impugn his sincerity because I know from experience that he understands the proper meaning of “consultation”, but not everybody in ministerial office does. There have even been recent occasions when advice has been totally jettisoned.

If we are to move forward with the devolved Administrations, it is important that we genuinely consult. I like the idea of giving them time but not allowing them to procrastinate indefinitely; a month seems a good length of time. Then, it is perfectly reasonable that the Westminster Parliament should insist on having its will, but that it explain precisely why. We have got to treat the devolved Administrations as bodies of articulate, well-informed public servants who are trying their best to serve Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Of course, the elephant in the room—we must all be honest enough to admit this—is that, whereas the Governments in Northern Ireland and Wales accept the union of the United Kingdom, in Scotland, they do not. In Scotland, we have a Government who, perfectly honourably—it is an entirely legitimate ambition to have, although I strongly oppose it—have one ultimate aim: to break up the United Kingdom by withdrawing from it. So, it is very important that those of us who believe in the United Kingdom do not succumb to those who want to manipulate themselves out of it, and that we are able, in the interests of the United Kingdom—while there is one—to argue for policies conducive to its continuance.

The balance and wisdom implicit in Amendment 20 commends itself to me. I hope that my noble friend will reflect on that and perhaps say that he will come back at Third Reading with a slightly amplified version of the welcome and, again, genuinely meant and perfectly sincere Amendment 14, because I do not really think we can just leave it at that.

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

My Lords, the starting point for this group of amendments is, I suppose, that not one of the devolved Administrations has given its consent to this legislation. That is an unfortunate place to be.

However, I welcome the changes that my noble friend the Minister has introduced so far. Listening to the debate, it seems that the gap between the different amendments and the Government’s position is not huge; to be honest, I would have thought it perfectly capable of being bridged. I certainly urge that efforts to ensure it is bridged be pursued, because there is no point in having unnecessary divisions if they can be avoided.

I must say to my noble friend that consultation is in the eye of the beholder. Having been a devolved Minister for just under seven years, I have a little experience of what consultation actually amounts to from time to time. Occasionally, it can be extensive, planned and productive. On other occasions, you read about it in the Daily Mail before you have even got into the office. There is a coherent argument for having a codified process to ensure that consultation happens, and within a framework. We all know that Ministers and departments are sometimes very good at it, but occasionally and, sadly, all too frequently, that is not the case.

I totally accept that no devolved Administration can be permitted to have a veto over what happens in the whole of the United Kingdom, because, as my noble friend Lord Cormack just stated, the buck ultimately stops with the Westminster Parliament; that is totally correct. But one is brought to a position by one’s experience in these matters. What is being asked for in some of these amendments is not unreasonable and would be beneficial. We know that, as has already been referred to, vociferous nationalism is attacking at every opportunity the legitimacy of the United Kingdom. It has been used and abused. So, even though some sections in government may find it a bit tedious, having a structured consultation mechanism is a protection against those who would use it as an anti-unionist argument.

To give an example, due to the action of some of its parties, the Northern Ireland Assembly was unfortunately out of business for three years during the critical Brexit negotiations. We repeatedly asked Ministers what mechanisms they were going to use to consult the people of Northern Ireland about the huge issues arising from those negotiations; indeed, barely a day goes by now without another obstacle and tank trap appearing in the process. We were given assurances that the consultation would be very significant, but I can tell noble Lords that that did not come to pass. It was sporadic and haphazard—it certainly was not structured—and we have ended up today in the most awful mess, which, sadly, we will no doubt return to frequently in the months ahead.

We should not really have to have an argument over these issues because there is a broad level of agreement. I urge my noble friend to harness the different threads of the argument and ensure that we take a united position as we move forward with this legislation, whatever we happen to think of it. Setting out clearly that there must be consultation and that it must be done in a formal, structured way without any devolved Administration being able to frustrate the operation of the UK single market—as it will be referred to—is entirely reasonable. I hope that my noble friend will reflect on that when he sums up.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, one of the pleasant features of this Bill is the extent to which probing amendments have been put down by all sides. It is clear to me from the consultations we have had between debates and the periodic guidance we have received that, for once—this is not true too often—we have on the Front Bench two Ministers who have tried very hard to find a way forward in a controversial and difficult area. I pay tribute to that; it is particularly reflected in the amendment before us today.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)]

My Lords, I have received two requests to ask the Minister a short question. They are from the noble Lord, Lord Empey, and the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering.

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

Briefly, my Lords, a question has been raised in the House on a number of occasions: why are Welsh and Scottish Ministers referred to, but a Northern Ireland department is referred to? The reason is that, since 1921, power is devolved in Northern Ireland to the department, not to the Minister. The role of the Minister is to direct and control the department, but the department can still function without a Minister. It is a quirk that goes back 100 years, but it is there.

The noble Lord, Lord Morrow, made a relevant point. I do not know what the Minister means by “consistent with the devolution settlement”, because nothing in the settlement that I am aware of determines that this particular department is responsible. But, if you want a plural, because “Ministers” are referred to in the plural in Scotland and Wales, the only collective equivalent in Northern Ireland is the Executive—or, to meet the point made by the noble Lord, you could say, “Northern Ireland departments as appropriate”. But the reason for the difference is historic; it is not an error, as some people thought in the past. It is consistent with the fact that powers are devolved to the department and not to the Minister.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I of course thank the noble Lord for his help in answering the question more thoroughly than I did, and I can confirm my understanding that he is correct in what he says.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, I speak to Amendment 22, in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Wigley and Lord Hain, and Amendment 23, in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, and the noble Lords, Lord Whitty and Lord Randall of Uxbridge. I too will be brief, because those introducing the amendments—which the Green group support—have done a great job of explaining the urgent need for them both.

Amendment 22 deals with public procurement. I spoke quite extensively—for three minutes, anyway—on a statutory instrument on this issue on 16 November, so I will not go on at great length. I will just point out that we have seen many states in Europe make great progress on this issue, and, as the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, set out, Wales has also made significant progress—perhaps the most progress of the nations of the United Kingdom. We have also seen great progress in England for what is known as the Preston model. Public procurement is absolutely crucial for improving the quality of our public health and our environment, for tackling climate change and for supporting small independent businesses. We are setting the model here for what we might hope to be future devolution within England—for Yorkshire, perhaps, and Cornwall, so they should also be able to leap ahead with the resources and powers to do so.

On Amendment 23, as the noble Lord, Lord Randall, just said, it is crucial that no nation in the United Kingdom is held back by others being laggards—and we know which ones that is likely to be. The point of devolution is to allow nations to diverge, to take different paths and to act according to their local circumstances. The noble Lord gave the very good example of peat, something on which we keep hearing promises of action but where we have yet to see the action needed. We hope that we will see real leadership on this and then see the laggards follow.

[Lord Empey (UUP)]

My Lords, I raise an issue that has already been referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Hain, pertaining to Amendment 22. It came to my attention two weeks ago, and I suspect that many Members are not aware of it, but we need to make ourselves aware very quickly. I attended Grand Committee when we were discussing the SI on common rules for exports. It was introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Grimstone. Bear in mind that the SI dealt with circumstances in which the UK Government could require one of the devolved regions or a company not to export certain items, if they were deemed to be required for the national purpose. For instance, the UK Government could say to a manufacturer of PPE anywhere in the UK, “We need that in the United Kingdom. We cannot let it go abroad.” However, in his opening remarks, the Minister said that the European Commission would exercise these powers in Northern Ireland.

In a different context last week, I asked the noble Lord, Lord True, about this and in what other areas the European Commission would exercise powers. He was unable to answer and said he would write. I put down a Written Question to which I have not yet received a response, but I am trying to get at the significant change taking place to the internal governance of the United Kingdom. In this example, a Minister of the Crown is telling us that a foreign power—which the European Commission will become on 1 January—will exercise powers in a part of the United Kingdom. I do not believe that that SI, and we have had hundreds of them, is the only SI to which this applies. I have asked for research to be undertaken on this, but the question arises in this case specifically, so perhaps the Minister will address it. If he cannot address it today, I would be grateful if he would write and place his response in the Library.

As Northern Ireland will be left in the EU, and subject to the single market and customs union regulations, and state aid rules, where, ultimately, does the power reside? If the procurement rules in the rest of the United Kingdom change, or if they change in the European Union but not in other parts of the United Kingdom, who will ultimately decide on these matters? Public procurement is an EU competence at present. It is not entirely devolved, because competition policy was a reserved matter, as I understand it, but there is a question over who actually decides. In my opinion, the constitution of the United Kingdom is being changed by statutory instrument. Very few people even seem to be aware of all this. Things like this amendment tease out who decides.

The subsequent Amendment 23 has some noble aims and objectives. A question also arises there as, if European Union environmental standards change, how will they be translated into regulations that could affect what happens in Northern Ireland versus Great Britain? There are big questions to be asked here. If the Minister cannot deal with them today, I would be grateful if he would write to me and put the letter in the Library for Members to see. There are changes taking place to our country, and people seem almost to be oblivious to their full extent and what they will mean in the long term.

Consumer Protection (Enforcement) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Empey Excerpts

Monday 16th November 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Empey (UUP) [V]]

In this Committee last week we discussed the Common Rules for Exports (EU Exit) Regulations 2020, which deal with the Government’s ability to prevent the export of particular products in an emergency—such as PPE products being sent out of the UK. In his opening salvo then, the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Grimstone, talked about

“the ability of the EU Commission to exercise these powers in Northern Ireland.”—[Official Report, 10/11/20; col. GC 421.]

The Minister said that the devolved Administration in Northern Ireland had powers over consumer affairs in Northern Ireland; that is correct. What I want to find out from him is: who, in practice, will be making the totality of consumer law in Northern Ireland, and who will implement it? For instance, under the protocol we have a “zone of regulatory compliance”, consisting of the 27 EU member states plus Northern Ireland.

The issue, it seems to me, is that in the regulations before us there are specific references to Great Britain and not Northern Ireland. For the sake of clarification, can the Minister, in his winding-up speech, tell us whether the European Commission will have any role in consumer affairs in Northern Ireland, given that, after the IP completion day, it clearly will have a role in other areas? I do not quite understand how it is consistent with taking back control if what will, on 1 January, become a foreign power, is to exercise executive authority in a part of the United Kingdom.

Can the Minister assure the Committee that that will not be the case here? Or, because we now have a regulatory border in the Irish sea—which the Government continually try to deny exists—will the regulations continue to be made in Brussels, where we have no representation or say? If not, who will make them, for the parts of consumer law that are not dealt with by the devolved Administration?

It seems to me that there is so much potential with these SIs, which are so terribly complex and not things that the general public would normally have access to or an interest in, but which are exceptionally important. There is a big issue of principle here. Are we actually effecting significant constitutional change that is against the principles of the Good Friday agreement without the knowledge or consent of those who would be directly affected? I would be most obliged if the Minister would address those matters in winding up.

Common Rules for Exports (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Empey Excerpts

Tuesday 10th November 2020 Grand Committee

[Lord Empey (UUP) [V]]

My Lords, in his opening address to the Committee, the Minister said that the European Commission will “exercise these powers in Northern Ireland”. Will the Minister explain to the Committee how it is possible for the status of Northern Ireland not to be changed after 1 January if a foreign power, which the EU Commission will become on that date, exercises power within what is supposed to be an integral part of the United Kingdom? How are the two things consistent? If it came to a dispute in so far as products coming from Northern Ireland to Great Britain were deemed by the European Union to be better retained within the EU rather than sent to Great Britain, who would pull the lever and take a decision on that matter?

There has been a consistent refusal by the Government to accept the realities of their proposals to the European Commission, dated 2 October last year, in which they put forward an alternative to the then withdrawal proposals. They have created a border in the Irish Sea but consistently denied it. I ask the Minister again: how is it consistent with the integrity of the United Kingdom if a foreign power has the ability to exercise powers within a part of the kingdom, even though the people living there will have no say whatever in the decisions that the Commission might make? The Minister owes the Committee an explanation for that.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, and other committee members who have looked at this. It is interesting that everyone who has spoken so far has zeroed in on this issue. The inconsistency is so obvious. How can you take back control if, where I live, those who I had the pleasure and privilege to represent for many years are effectively abandoned to a foreign power? Does the Minister not realise the implications of this? I hope that, when he comes to sum up, he will be able to give the Committee an explanation.

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Lord Empey Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 5th sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 5th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 9th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Empey (UUP) [V]]

My Lords, it is difficult to know where to start; there are so many things of major concern in the proposals in this section of the Bill. First, I support Amendment 162, which I signed, for the reasons that the noble Lord, Lord Hain, has just set out. But we need to step back a moment and see how and why it is that we are discussing such dramatic and momentous proposals in the first place. The answer lies in events a year ago. The amendments to the protocol that were produced by the Government have largely been accepted by the European Union, but the fact is that the withdrawal agreement that emerged from those proposals is such a bad deal.

I have heard so many people, including President-elect Biden and others, say that we must all protect the Belfast Good Friday agreement, and that is very true. However, of course, the agreement is balanced. Focus has been, almost exclusively, on preventing a land trade border on the island of Ireland. I do not want to see this, but, equally, I do not want a trade border in the Irish Sea between one part of the United Kingdom and the rest. That is what is actually being implemented as a result of the agreement that the Government signed a year ago, and that is completely contrary to the Belfast agreement, which makes it clear that the status of Northern Ireland cannot change without the consent of its people. If anybody thinks that our status is not changing as a result of what is happening, they are fooling themselves.

I got a Written Answer a short time ago from the noble Lord, Lord True, in which he made it clear, in response to my Question, that UK officials will implement EU law and seek to ensure that it is applied at Northern Ireland ports. The idea that nothing has changed or that the status of Northern Ireland is not changing is completely erroneous.

I want to make my point very clear about the Belfast Good Friday agreement: it is balanced, and a border in the Irish Sea is just as injurious to that agreement as a land trade border on the island would be. I hope that people accept that. I listened very carefully to the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, who has vast experience of dealing with the downstream consequences of our Troubles. There are very few people, if any, in Parliament who have any experience on that scale, so I think we have to listen very carefully to what he and others have had to say.

There are alternatives, which is what frustrates me: it was never necessary to do a lot of this. The reason why we are doing this, and why this Bill is before us, is the mess that was created a year ago. I believe very strongly that there are alternatives. As a country, we should legally prevent our territory being used to export unregulated goods to the European Union. We could indemnify the European Union if any of them eventually got through. We could set up cross-border bodies to establish a working relationship with the Irish Republic to ensure that the single market is not contaminated. There are a lot of things we can do.

Specifically, I understand the idea that the Government put forward of having a safety net. But the way to do that is not to announce that you will break international law when, in fact, the European Union accepted our proposals for an amendment to the protocol in the explanatory document of 2 October last year, which contained the provisions for a regulatory border and border inspection posts. It was the Government’s idea.

I think that they should prepare an emergency provisions Bill to be used in the event that the European Union demonstrated bad faith or the dispute resolution mechanisms within the agreement were set aside by the EU, preventing Northern Ireland from having proper access to goods and services from the rest of the United Kingdom. I believe that widespread parliamentary support could be built up to prevent such a thing happening in an emergency. Laws can be passed in this House and through our Parliament very quickly, as we know, specifically where they apply to Northern Ireland. They have been done many times before and can be done in 48 hours.

I believe there are alternatives not only to Part 5 of the Bill but to the withdrawal agreement as it currently stands. Going back to the genesis of this mess, which was on 2 October 2019, I say to colleagues that that document contained provisions for border inspection posts and application of the relevant EU rules as well as stating:

“regulatory checks can be implemented at the boundary of the zone”.

The zone here is the 27 EU member states and Northern Ireland. Any idea that this is something new or different is wrong: it was there from the very beginning in October last year, and I deeply regret that our colleagues in the Democratic Unionist Party supported that then, saying, quite clearly, that it was a

“serious and sensible way forward”.

Of course, two weeks down the line, they had to change their tune. Nevertheless, that was the green light for Dublin and the EU, and that advantage was pressed home.

If ever there was a case for the other place having a chance to look at this legislation again, this is it. I sincerely hope that the House of Commons will revisit this. If they talk to people, to some of us who were involved in negotiating the Belfast Good Friday agreement and to colleagues, they will find that none of us want to see Northern Ireland decoupled from the rest of the United Kingdom. I see this whole measure and agreement as a dagger pointed at the heart of the union. Other colleagues have mentioned what is happening in Scotland, and we see changes in Wales and even Jersey. I do not know whether we can get certainty about where the Isle of Wight stands on all of this, but the fact remains that the union is in serious trouble with the way we are handling things. However, there are alternative ways out that can maintain stability, do not break up the United Kingdom and do not set one section of the community in Northern Ireland against the other.

I have no doubt that it may well have been the case that some EU official did threaten to stop food travelling to Northern Ireland from Great Britain. Only a fool with no knowledge of history would dare to say anything that would prevent food getting to Ireland. It is such a stupid thing to say. I do not believe that the United Kingdom needs to turn itself inside out and break up its whole international standing to prevent such a thing happening. There are alternatives.

I do not believe that this Parliament or any party in it would stand by and allow one part of the United Kingdom to be, effectively, starved out because of regulations if the European Union was being particularly difficult. I think we can overcome all of that by consensus and can ensure that the Government are given the strength that they need in the negotiations. If somebody in the European Union did think, for one moment, that they could get away with such a thing, I would disabuse them of that thought. This is not the way ahead.

[Baroness Suttie (LD) [V]]

It is always a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Empey, who always speaks with such authority, experience and, as we heard this evening, force on these matters. I will speak in favour of Amendment 163, to which I have added my name, and against all clauses in Part 5 of the Bill. Amendment 163 is a cross-party amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Hain, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Ritchie and Lady Altmann. It calls for the trader support service to be extended to become a long-term commitment for trade from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.

In response to a similar amendment during Committee on the Trade Bill on 13 October, the Minister, the noble Viscount, Lord Younger of Leckie, confirmed that the future of the trader support service will be reviewed after two years. Can the Minister confirm that, if after two years it is seen as a positive initiative for businesses in Northern Ireland, it will continue indefinitely?

I will concentrate the remainder of my brief remarks on the deletion of Part 5 of this Bill. The arguments are well rehearsed. We have heard them made very eloquently, particularly in the most thoughtful speech from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, and the powerful speeches from the noble Lord, Lord Howard, and my noble friend Lord Newby. As other noble Lords have said, unless Part 5 is deleted, it risks diminishing our global reputation and jeopardising the substantial progress made on the island of Ireland since the 1998 Belfast/Good Friday agreement.

The Government sometimes give the impression that the protocol was somehow imposed on them, whereas earlier this year they were claiming it as their great success. As the noble Lord, Lord Empey, demonstrated clearly in his speech, the Northern Ireland protocol is not perfect, but it is the consequence of the Government’s insistence on a set of incompatible promises and on leaving both the customs union and the single market. For all its imperfections, the protocol is a carefully constructed compromise to try to maintain peace and stability on the island of Ireland.

The uncertainty which Part 5 of this Bill provokes has also—in my view, unforgivably—wasted scarce resources and valuable time. This is precious time when businesses could and should have been preparing for the end of the transition period in just over 50 days’ time.

Last week, the National Audit Office said in its report, The UK Border: Preparedness for the End of the Transition Period:

“It is very unlikely that all traders, industry and third parties will be ready for the end of the transition period … There is a risk that widespread disruption could ensue at a time when government and businesses continue to deal with the effects of Covid-19.”


If the arguments against Part 5 remain the same, the political context in which we now find ourselves has very substantially changed. As my noble friend Lord Newby said, President-elect Biden has made it very clear that he will not support any measures that would result in breaking commitments made in the Northern Ireland protocol or that would risk destabilising the Good Friday/Belfast agreement. Yet in the media this morning, the Government made it clear that they do not intend to change their mind on Part 5.

There is a time when sticking to a position looks like strength, and there is a time when it looks out of touch with political reality. I urge noble Lords to vote against all clauses in Part 5 and I call on the Government to think again.