Syria: British Armed Forces

Lord Elton Excerpts

Thursday 24th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Goldie]

I can reassure the noble Lord that we have set procedures for handling the airspace above Syria. He is right that, given the number of parties operating over Syria now, the airspace is congested, but that is no different from the conditions during earlier counter-Daesh operations. There are procedures to ensure that air activity is appropriately deconflicted and handled in a safe and professional manner. Those are the rules by which the United Kingdom abides, as do our allies.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend has referred twice to Daesh, which is much bigger than ISIL. Events are moving very fast in the region, but Daesh goes by different names in many different parts of the world. Can she assure us that the Government are still firmly fixed on their main objective, which is the overall defeat of Daesh?

[Baroness Goldie]

Let me reassure my noble friend without any ambiguity or ambivalence that the answer is yes. Daesh is the focus of our activity. I said earlier that Daesh is a lethal, toxic entity, and we owe it to the safety and security not just of the United Kingdom but of our friends and allies throughout the world to play our part in addressing that threat.

Offensive Weapons Bill

Lord Elton Excerpts

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 6th February 2019 Grand Committee

[Lord Lucas]

I would be grateful if my noble friend could share that.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, can the Minister remind us of the youngest age to which these provisions apply? I remind her that it is the effect of the legislation, not the intention, that matters.

[Baroness Barran]

The youngest age to which the provisions apply is 10—the standard age of criminal responsibility.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Meacher]

The noble Lord suggests that some of us are saying, “It’s okay to carry a knife”. I want to make it clear that I am not saying that. I have a feeling that noble Lords around us are not saying it either. It is not okay for kids to carry knives. The only issue is what we do to help them not to have to carry a knife.

[Lord Elton]

If I may go back to the noble Baroness’s speech, I am drawn to my feet simply to endorse her view of the inappropriateness of a short prison sentence and, with juveniles, of any prison sentence. For a time, I was Minister responsible for the welfare of young people, other than their health, at the DHSS, which simply meant juvenile offenders in secure accommodation and keeping them out of it. I then had three years being responsible for prisons in the Home Office. I therefore dedicated the next chunk of my life to stopping young people going to prison. You cannot do it when they are into crime; you have to do it before. You have to see that they are not frightened. They must feel safe at home, at school and on the streets, and you must see that they are not bored. The two spurs are fear—“To protect myself I must be armed”—and, “What on earth am I going to do? Let’s go and make trouble. Let’s take a car that does not belong to us and drive it very, very fast around Blackbird Leys in Oxford”. It is the buzz they have to get. We have to provide that by means other than punitive, by pre-emptive means before the event. We have to engage them. When they are on the edge of the event, we have to try even harder. One good way is to find a group of young adults with enthusiasm for almost anything, but preferably a team sport or team activity; for example, white-water rafting, jazz playing, football, canoeing or rock climbing, give them the small amount of money necessary to set up a group to do that and the bored young and the frightened young will come there in clusters. When we did that when I was in what one might call civilian life, the people concerned learned to get £5 of funding from elsewhere for every pound that my people were able to give them.

What I am trying to preach here is outside the terms of this Bill, and I apologise for that, but we are putting the money, as the noble Baroness says, in the wrong place, too late. If only we had enough cash to do a sensible job for our young people. Many of them have no male adult role model, and it is almost impossible to get male teachers into primary education now because the dangers of being sussed as having improper relations with pupils are so great. It is a risk to cuddle a child if they fall and hurt themselves, and we have the new phenomenon of mobile phones which are distracting young adults so that they do not pay attention to children at all. All of that has got to be remedied by the community acting together to give young people things to do which excite them, in safe places with secure adult supervision. That cannot go into this Bill, but I hope nothing which puts juveniles in danger of short prison sentences will go into this Bill, because that is wholly counterproductive.

Reconciliation: Role of British Foreign, Defence and International Development Policy

Lord Elton Excerpts

Friday 14th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak in this most remarkable debate with far more timidity and humility than usual because the qualifications of others are far greater than mine. Outreaching all of us is the most reverend Primate, whom I congratulate and thank. He is uniquely qualified to speak with authority on this matter because of his background and experience. I offer only a few observations.

We are holding this debate at an appropriate juncture, in the shadow of our debates on the commemorations of the Armistice. Fresh in all our minds is the astonishing cost of world wars, including the damage they do to societies and the way in which they tend to replicate themselves. I draw noble Lords’ attention to what is going on in Egypt, where the Coptic Church is under constant assault. Let me give some examples. In 2017, churches in Alexandria and Tanta were bombed, killing 47 people. In the same year, 28 pilgrims were killed on a bus en route to a monastery in Minya and a Coptic priest was stabbed to death in a Cairo street. Only recently, last month, a family of 12—men, women and children—travelling in a bus to a christening were chased down and shot dead by attackers. In no case was there a spot of violent retaliation. On the contrary, the teachings of the Church and the practices of its members are always to act out of forgiveness.

In a sense, this a top-down exercise because it is led by the Church. Archbishop Angaelos said recently:

“People are indeed surprised when we speak of forgiveness at times like this, but we are called to forgive and we must continue to do so. Of course there is a call for justice but never for vengeance … reconciliation but never carelessness. In our unity as the Body of Christ, the family of faith, and the global family, we must continue to advocate for and safeguard the dignity and sanctity of every life”.


He has also said:

“Reconciliation must happen through pragmatic and intentional leadership; bringing people together. These efforts will then instil a sense of unity, cohesion and national identity so that people no longer focus on one’s religion, but see the Egyptian in the other … It is only then that we can begin to advocate for one another”.


That is the stage at which this becomes bottom-up. I merely want to draw to your Lordships’ attention the astonishing power available for reconciliation in faiths, particularly the Christian faith. What a splendid example that is.

I will very quickly remind your Lordships of the role of Norway in negotiations in a great many crises of this sort. It has extraordinary tenacity. It has been involved in Sri Lanka for 20 years, maintaining what peace there is. It is not for me to describe Norway’s methods, except, as your Lordships have already been told, that it is not in any way aligned to force because it does not act as a superpower. If your Lordships want a good example and have a computer, they should listen to a speech by its then Foreign Minister, Børge Brende, at Brookings Institution in Washington in June 2014. It lasts an hour, so you need to have time on your hands, but there is no printed version, otherwise my task would have been easier because I would be reading large chunks of it. Instead, I suggest that those who have the time and inclination go and watch the play “Oslo”, which ran in London. It shows the about-to-retire ambassador from Norway to this country playing a key role at the Israeli-Palestinian conference held in Oslo some time ago.

I ask my noble friend who is to answer this debate to consider the roles of the Conflict, Stability and Security Fund and the Stabilisation Unit. I am always a bit worried when there are two powers within government tasked with overlapping—in fact, almost coinciding—areas; I hope that those units will be melded at some stage. Is there, and if not can there be, recognition that when they come to a conclusion on major policy issues, that should be adopted by the departments that have to administer the system so that any body going out from this country has clear directions as to the parameters within which and the conventions on which they should base their activity? That requires that the statement of the relevant criteria shall be not only embodied in guidance to the departments, but incorporated in the directions of those departments to their operatives overseas, whether they be military or civilian.

I am surprised that I am not saying that I echo the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, in what I say now. I advocate, as he has often in the past, that when you have a vital chain of responsibility in any organisation, particularly in government and obviously in the Army, at each stage there needs to be a named individual responsible for seeing that something is done, otherwise it goes into a report that is shelved and the same mistake is made again and again. What I ask for from this Government is not merely responsibility in generosity, which I believe they are now displaying, but responsibility in this way so that the good things we can do are done in the best way possible and that we learn from our mistakes.

Genocide

Lord Elton Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords—

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, we have time for both questions, so shall we go first to the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy?

[Baroness Goldie]

The noble Baroness will be aware of the United Kingdom Government’s attitude to torture. We are very robust about that. What other sovereign states choose to do is largely their affair. I am not aware of any specific exchange to which the noble Baroness alludes. I shall do some research, and if I discover any information I shall be in touch with her.

[Lord Elton]

I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy. My noble friend referred to a process which it is necessary for any incident to go through before it can be recognised as within the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court. Has the case of the Yazidis and Christians in Syria been through that process—and, if so, can the pursuit of that case be accelerated?

[Baroness Goldie]

At the end of the day, it is for the International Criminal Court, as an independent institution, with its prosecutor, to make all decisions relative to the prosecution of crimes within its jurisdiction. On the basis of information being provided, I am absolutely certain that the court and the prosecutor will want to do everything within their power to pursue allegations where there are serious concerns such as those referred to by my noble friend.

Syria and Iraq: Airspace

Lord Elton Excerpts

Thursday 22nd October 2015 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord makes a series of important points. There are two issues here: one is air safety over Syria and the other is the end to the conflict. On air safety, the memorandum of understanding provides a considerable degree of assurance on the matter of Syrian airspace. He is quite right, however, that ultimately, the only way that we can end the conflict satisfactorily is to have a political solution, which will demand the buy-in of the major powers and regional states.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, will these discussions include one on the separation of pilotless guided missiles, which at present intersect horizontally with the civilian flight paths that lie between the point of launch and the point of intended contact?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the United States is not making the MoU public, so I cannot go into a huge amount of detail on its content, other than what the US has publicly released, which is that the MoU is aimed at minimising the risk of in-flight incidents between coalition and Russian aircraft and includes specific safety protocols for aircrews to follow. The US and Russia will be forming a working group to discuss any implementation issues, which will no doubt include those raised by my noble friend.

Astute-class Submarines

Lord Elton Excerpts

Monday 2nd March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very good point. We continue to look for ways to optimise manufacturing schedules. For example, we are introducing new technology to support modular build, an innovative means of testing and commissioning different systems.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, the stretching out of delivery times affects the cash flow of subcontractors, and those difficulties can be hideously compounded by delays in the settlement of their bills. Is there oversight of the rate of settlement of bills and, if so, is it satisfactory?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I cannot answer my noble friend’s question from the Dispatch Box, but I will take it back to my department and undertake to write to him.

Armed Forces: Biofuels

Lord Elton Excerpts

Monday 31st March 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Lord is using his imagination to try to tempt me to discuss the number of ships. This Question is about biofuels.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, in replying to two supplementary questions, my noble friend relied on the effects of biofuel cultivation on agriculture but surely another major, and possibly longer-term, anxiety is the destruction of forestry, particularly in South America, which is reducing a diminishing resource that is a means of absorbing excess carbon in the atmosphere.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I am well aware of the concerns for both agriculture and forests. As I said earlier, the Ministry of Defence is such a small user of biofuels that I would rather not get into this debate.

Defence: Type 26 Global Combat Ship

Lord Elton Excerpts

Monday 2nd December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I disagree with the noble Lord. The First Sea Lord has some very exciting plans for the future of the Royal Navy. The Type 26s we are planning, the three OPVs and, of course, the Type 45s which my noble friend mentioned, are all part of those exciting plans.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, what are the criteria by which the Government decide which countries are suitable as export purchasers and which are not?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, in the context of Scotland, the UK has a number of commercial yards involved in building military warships which have been involved in the building of the carriers. It is recognised that these yards would need additional investment to enable them to participate in the building of the Type 26.

Ministry of Defence: Dogs

Lord Elton Excerpts

Monday 14th October 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I can give the noble Lord the commitment that no dogs are put down for financial reasons. The vast majority of dogs had to be put down as the animals’ condition impeded and reduced their quality of life. As noble Lords may know from sad personal experience, everyone will at times have to put animals to sleep when it is the only option. The death or destruction of a military working dog is subject to formal investigation and report, as required. Dogs are not usually retrained during their military service. The role that a dog undertakes is normally one which the dog has a natural inclination to perform as a result of breed characteristics and behavioural traits.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, there are occasions when it is impossible to find a successor owner for the dog. Would my noble friend bear in mind the work of the Cinnamon Trust, which has a fascinating remit of supplying bereaved people with dogs which have also been bereaved, and homing other difficult cases in a way which promotes the happiness of both the animal and the human?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very good point. I will certainly study carefully the excellent work of the Cinnamon Trust.

Defence Equipment and Support

Lord Elton Excerpts

Tuesday 17th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, we will have to decide whether to take the UOR equipment back into the core defence budget. It is much too early to give my noble friend an answer on that. We are looking at it very closely.

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, in mulling over his reply to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, will my noble friend—

[Noble Lords]

Lord Bach.

[Lord Elton]

I am sorry, the noble Lord, Lord Bach. It is a mistake I have made before. Bad map-reading; I apologise.

[Lord Bach]

The noble Lord should not insult my noble friend Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, but he is not the first to do so.

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, if I can start again, can my noble friend tell us whether in any debate that we have he will be prepared to answer questions about how research and development will be continued under the new organisation? It is very important that the budgetary and technical skills of the department, the military and the commercial suppliers are co-ordinated. How is that going to be managed and by whom?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very good point. If we do have a debate, I undertake to answer as many questions as I possibly can, and I would ensure that I got sufficient briefing to answer my noble friend’s question on this important issue.