Judicial Review and Courts Bill

Lord Duncan of Springbank Excerpts

Report stage
Thursday 31st March 2022 Lords Chamber

Amendment 39 agreed.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

My Lords, I am aware that we are without the Minister, so shall we have a brief pause while he is rustled up? That will allow some people to escape the Room and, hopefully, we can track down the Minister. We are all just too efficient—that is why it has happened.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, in the absence of the Minister, who is not too far away, I suggest that the House do now adjourn until 5.10 pm.

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Lord Duncan of Springbank Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 1 & Lords Hansard - part one & Report stage
Wednesday 15th December 2021 Lords Chamber

Amendments 72 to 78 not moved.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

We shall now move on to the amendments that follow those to Clause 102. We begin with Amendment 78A. I should inform the House that the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, will be taking part remotely.

Amendment 78A

Moved by

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I make clear to the Minister that it is his response on Amendment 78B that we are most keenly interested in today.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, will be taking part remotely, so I hope she is there now. Baroness Brinton, are you with us?

[Baroness Brinton (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I welcome this further opportunity to speak to Amendments 78C and 78D in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, on the unduly lenient sentence scheme, to which I have added my name, and to Amendment 82B in my name on home detention curfews.

First, I thank the Minister for trying to set up a meeting. It was unfortunate that he had to cancel it and that, because of the emergency coronavirus legislation, I was not free to meet him either yesterday or today. Further, as an aside, it is good to see the Government finally publish their consultation on a victims law and I hope that, after the consultation, legislation will swiftly follow. We have been waiting a long time and today’s amendments are very definitely there to help victims.

Turning first to Amendments 78C and 78D, in Committee, speakers made clear how the ULS scheme plays an important role in our justice system, providing the right for individuals to apply to the Attorney-General’s Office where they believe a sentence to be unduly lenient. As the Minister clarified earlier, the unduly lenient sentence scheme does not provide a direct right to appeal, but instead provides an individual, including victims of crime and bereaved family members, with the opportunity to have their concerns considered by the courts.

On Amendment 78C, we hope that the Minister will acknowledge both the intent and practicalities of such a proposition. The Government’s own victims’ code of practice is clear that victims deserve the right to be told about this scheme and that the responsibility for informing victims of crime about it is assigned to the witness care units. The problem is that the witness care unit is the wrong authority to have this responsibility, because it interacts with only those who are witnesses in court, thus excluding many victims, including bereaved family members.

Amendment 78D seeks to allow flexibility in the 28-day time limit in exceptional circumstances, which would remain at the discretion of law officers when considering the application. If the Minister is concerned about the perceived risk this poses to the certainty for the offender, we believe that allowing a degree of flexibility in exceptional circumstances, as is given to the offender in this case, at the discretion of law officers, does not pose such a risk.

Part of the current problem, and its true risk to finality in sentencing, lies in the current backlogs facing our court system. One recent unduly lenient sentencing case has taken 10 months to reach the Court of Appeal. This does not resolve the fundamental problem that victims face, which is that the criminal justice system should ensure that victims are aware of their rights, have sufficient opportunity to exercise them and have the same rights of flexibility in truly exceptional circumstances. We believe that these amendments, rather than posing a risk to justice and its efficiency, seek to ensure that justice is truly served and that victims of crime have the right—as the Government have set out elsewhere—to a fundamental role in this process.

I turn now to Amendment 82B, which seeks to amend the policy framework governing the use of home detention curfews to exclude those who have previously breached protective orders and who have a history of stalking, harassment, domestic abuse and coercive control. During the debate in Committee, we discussed the fixated and obsessive nature of these offenders and the risk this poses to victims and the public. We gave worrying examples of cases where high-risk offenders were released on home detention curfew, only to appear outside their victim’s home or work, often despite court injunctions not to contact their victim.

After Committee, Victoria Atkins, Minister for Prisons and Probation, wrote to the Victims’ Commissioner for London, stating that the scheme provides a transition to the community for lower-risk offenders. If we are to believe that this Government take violence against women and girls seriously, can the Minister explain how they can consider those convicted of stalking and domestic abuse as lower-risk offenders? The Minister himself stated, in a recent event held by the Domestic Abuse Commissioner, that domestic abuse is at the top of the Government’s agenda and reforming and reframing their response is their top priority.

Support for this amendment would present a small step in the right direction to give victims of such violence the trust and confidence that the justice system is committed to tackling violence against women and girls. I will not press Amendment 82B to a vote, but would welcome a meeting to see if we can make some progress on reducing the contradiction highlighted by Victoria Atkins for something that would provide real support for victims.

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Lord Duncan of Springbank Excerpts

Committee stage & Lords Hansard part one
Wednesday 20th October 2021 Lords Chamber

Amendments 2 to 5 not moved.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

I cannot call Amendment 6, as it is an amendment to Amendment 5.

Clause 1 agreed.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Lord Duncan of Springbank Excerpts

Wednesday 21st April 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

I must ask at this point: does anyone in the Chamber wish to speak? No? In that case it is over to the noble Lord, Lord Paddick.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, it really is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, for reasons that will become apparent, not least because we are three non-lawyers in a row.

On Report, the noble Lord, Lord Wolfson of Tredegar, wondered whether I was accusing the Government of being misogynistic, following on from what the noble Baroness has just said. I say very clearly that that is not what I said or intended to say. I shall clarify. The essence of misogyny, as I understand it, is hatred of women who fail to comply with the sexist stereotype of a compliant, subordinate woman—hatred of women who stand up for themselves. I am not accusing the Government of hating women, but in my opinion there are echoes of that view of women being subordinate in their approach to this issue.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, has said, on the face of it the Government’s refusal to extend the so-called householder defence to victims of domestic abuse who use disproportionate force against their abusers in self-defence in the same way that a householder is allowed to use disproportionate force against an intruder appears to smack of the view that men should stand and fight but women should run away.

I do not intend to go over the arguments that I made at previous stages of the Bill; suffice it to say that I do not believe the Government’s arguments hold water. As a result, I am led to the conclusions that I have expressed. I would not be averse to the Government repealing the so-called householder defence, but I believe that to allow predominantly male householders to avail themselves of such a defence while not extending it to predominantly women victims of domestic abuse is inconsistent and incompatible.

While I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Randall of Uxbridge, about Lords Amendment 38, in my view the Government’s approach is again inconsistent. The law specifically provides a statutory defence to victims of modern slavery when those victims are compelled to commit an offence, even though there is an existing common-law defence of duress. When it comes to victims of domestic abuse who are compelled to commit an offence as a result of such abuse, the Government argue that the existing common-law defence of duress is sufficient. Either the existing common-law defence of duress is sufficient for both victims of domestic abuse and victims of modern slavery or it is not. In my view, the Government should not be able to have it both ways.

Clearly, these anomalies need to be addressed. Motion D1 provides for an independent review of defences for those who offend due to domestic abuse, which we support. The review of sentencing as suggested by the Government does not appear to us to go far enough.

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, I am again grateful to noble Lords who have contributed to these exchanges. Right at the start, I say that the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, was spot on when she characterised my position as disagreeing but sympathising—that is absolutely right. For the reasons that I have set out, I disagree but sympathise with the aims of the amendments.

Like the noble Baroness, I found the meeting with the representatives from the Centre for Women’s Justice extremely helpful. I have read a lot of material that they have produced, and, in particular, like her, I found the conversation with the survivor who joined us extremely powerful. Like my noble friend Lord Randall of Uxbridge, we have to remember that, while we may be debating what sometimes seem here to be quite dry and technical issues of law, there are real people—if I may use that terrible phrase—and, in this case, real victims of domestic abuse, who are affected. The House can be assured that I have that at the very front of my thinking.

I will not go over the substantive points that I made—I hope I am excused for that. As I explained, the review is of sentencing in domestic homicide cases, but it is a broad review. The terms of reference are still being developed, but it will look at the impact of defences on sentencing, and, while I appreciate that that is not as far as the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, would like me to go, I hope that it is an indication of the seriousness with which the Government take this matter and, in particular, the review of sentencing.

I pick up the point of the noble Lord, Lord Paddick. We respectfully disagree that there is a read-over to either the householder or the trafficking issue. As to the latter, I have made clear on previous occasions that we have concerns with the way that that defence is used in practice. Indeed, if I remember correctly, one of Her Majesty’s judges recently explained that in a case that he was hearing in, I think, Bradford—I may be misremembering that. As such, there is an issue as to how that trafficking offence is applied in practice.

Like the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Gloucester, I am well aware that there is a substantial proportion of women in prison who have themselves been victims of domestic abuse—that is of course why a review of sentencing is so important. Without being trite, they are in prison because they were given a prison sentence; therefore, a focus on sentencing in the review is entirely appropriate.

I do not know whether there is anything I can do to help the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, in her apparent dichotomy between lawyers on the one hand and common sense on the other. The point I was making about the majority in the other place was actually that it was not the standard government majority, so to speak: it was a significant majority—with the greatest respect, that is something that this House ought to bear in mind. However, my noble friend Lord Randall of Uxbridge did perhaps solve an age-old conundrum about a justification for the existence of lawyers, particularly in Parliament. He even came close to giving an explanation for their possible utility, so I am grateful to him for that.

My noble friend was also right when he said that people should not go to prison if they have been convicted of a crime that they were forced to commit—“forced” is a critical word, and that is where you get into the defence of duress. However, as I said, it is not only the question of the defence of duress: if there is a conviction, the nature of the force—if it does not amount to a defence—would still be relevant to sentencing and to mitigation.

As such, I hope that I have set out the reasons why the Government disagree. I hope that I have also responded to the particular point put to me by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy of Southwark, on the scope of the review. However, for the reasons that I have set out, I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, will indeed not press her amendment.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

I have received no requests to speak after the Minister. I beg your pardon; I see that the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, wishes to speak.

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[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London. It seems perfectly sensible that we should all wait until the report has come out. What worries me is what appears to be a lack of understanding by the Government. It is perfectly obvious that if a victim thinks that she—particularly she, but sometimes he—will be subject to immigration control, she is not going to come forward and say that she has been abused. It is an obvious way for a victim to be kept under the control of the abuser. I worry that, in looking at this, the Government have not taken into account the obvious dangers to a victim of the use of their data by immigration control.

I am also concerned about the DDVC. A number of victims of domestic abuse do not manage to come within its rules and are therefore in danger of being deported despite being sufferers from domestic abuse.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

Does anyone else in the Chamber wish to speak at this point? No? I therefore call the noble Lord, Lord Paddick.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, the Commons reason for disagreeing with Lords Amendment 40 relies on a government review of a report by Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary. In light of the two recent reports by Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary on the policing of protests, I now have serious concerns about HMIC’s political independence. As a result, any Commons disagreement based on a government review of immigration control, let alone one based on an HMIC report, provides me with no reassurance whatever.

Motion E1 would ensure that the personal details of victims and witnesses of domestic abuse were not used for immigration control purposes. Victims of rape or sexual assault, as well as victims of domestic abuse, who have gone to the police have been deported as a result of coming forward as vulnerable victims of serious crime. Perpetrators of rape, sexual assault and domestic violence threaten victims that, if they go to the police, they will be deported.

Can the Government help with what I understand to be their position on how the sharing of information between police and immigration enforcement can benefit victims of domestic abuse? Is it their position that were a victim to be subject to coercive control on the basis of their immigration status, sharing information with immigration enforcement could establish that the victim’s immigration status was in fact compliant, removing the mechanism of coercive control? If that is the Government’s argument, how is that sharing of personal information without consent compliant with GDPR? It is outside the exemption provided by paragraph 4 of Schedule 2 to the Data Protection Act 2018, which provides an exemption only for the maintenance of effective immigration control, or the investigation or detection of activities that would undermine the maintenance of effective immigration control.

As the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, has just said, it matters not what a victim’s immigration status is, if the victim fears that the consequences of reporting a crime of which they are the victim or witness might be their deportation. As the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of London has said, there is one other question for the Government: what is more important, ending violence against women, girls and other vulnerable victims of serious crime, or immigration control? If the Government oppose Motion E1, they are sending a very clear message that they care more about immigration control than protecting vulnerable victims of crime. We on these Benches will always put ending violence against women, girls and other vulnerable victims first, by voting with the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, if she divides the House. The noble Baroness has taken full account of the concerns of the other place and there appears to us to be no reason not to support her alternative amendments.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Lord Duncan of Springbank Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 10th March 2021 Lords Chamber

Relevant documents: 21st and 28th Reports from the Delegated Powers Committee

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

My Lords, I will call Members to speak in the order listed. Short questions of elucidation after the Minister’s response are discouraged. Any Member wishing to ask such a question must email the clerk. The groupings are binding. Participants who might wish to press an amendment other than the lead amendment in the group to a Division must give notice in the debate or by emailing the clerk. Leave should be given to withdraw amendments. When putting the Question, I will collect voices in the Chamber only. If a Member taking part remotely wants their voice accounted for, if the Question is put, they must make this clear when speaking to the group.

Amendment 17

Moved by

Counter-Terrorism and Sentencing Bill

Lord Duncan of Springbank Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 9th February 2021 Lords Chamber

I am just checking that I have responded to all the points put to me. I believe I have; I will check the Official Report and write to any noble Lords if they have raised points to which I have not expressly responded. I am conscious that this debate has gone a little—or quite a lot—further than the scope of the amendment itself. I hope, having heard my response on the particular point of the pilot and to the noble and learned Lord’s three questions, that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer, will be content to withdraw his amendment.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

Noble Lords may be pleased to know that we have had no requests to speak after the Minister, so I call the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer of Thoroton.

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Schedule 11, as amended, agreed.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

We now come to the group beginning with Amendment 27. I remind noble Lords that anyone wishing to speak after the Minister should email the clerk during the debate. Anyone wishing to press this or anything else in the group to a Division must make this clear in the debate.

Clause 37: TPIMs: condition as to involvement in terrorism-related activity

Amendment 27

Moved by

Public Health (Coronavirus) (Protection from Eviction) (England) Regulations 2021

Lord Duncan of Springbank Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Grender, for whom I have the greatest respect and who knows a great deal, about this area. I welcome my noble friend to the Front Bench and thank him very much for setting out these regulations. I declare my interests as set out in the register, and I thank the National Residential Landlords Association and Generation Rent for their helpful briefings.

I am in support of these regulations, but I have some concerns. I see the need to protect public health and the risk of virus transmission—I am sure that we all do. We go through this bimonthly ritual of renewing these regulations, and I have to say to my noble friend, who seemed to indicate that there was as yet no certainty about renewing them, that we are only three weeks away from them running out. It seems to me that we should provide some certainty for both landlords and tenants.

I hope that we will renew the regulations, but that we will take a more strategic look at how we approach this situation. Here we are, many renewals in, with a very fundamental problem: the gradual accumulation of rent arrears, which is now substantial. That affects tenants and, of course, landlords, because we are not doing anything about the debt which is building up over time. There is a very real concern about credit ratings for tenants who find themselves, through no fault of their own, in this situation. Their credit rating is affected, and that will have a long-term effect on the tenancy market, which is a very important part of our housing area. We will need to take a much more strategic approach, rather than looking simply at the very important protection of tenants from eviction—that is, as it were, a given. I have great sympathy with looking at this on a wider scale rather than every two months, because I do not see this problem going away by 21 February. Surely we should take a longer look at this.

Could my noble friend give some thought, and perhaps some preliminary thoughts to the House, on how we might move forward, at least with hardship loans or funds to help tenants, and thus landlords and the sector? Otherwise, this will be a long-term problem that is building up over time. I sympathise with the situation that my noble friend finds himself in, and I can appreciate the great pressure that the Government are under on so many fronts. However, I think we need to take a step back and look at this not just in tactical terms of what we need to do for the immediate problem but at the situation that is building up.

I know my noble friend said something on this in opening, but I am not quite clear why we have moved from nine months’ arrears to six months’ arrears. What is the reason for that? The problem is more serious now, so I cannot quite square that with the fact that we seem to be bearing down with six months of debt accrued rather than nine months. However, it may be that I missed something there.

As my noble friend said, we have provided unprecedented help, but on the other hand, we are in a unprecedented situation, and it looks to me as if it will last for some time. Even as we come out of the public health hazards, as I am sure we will this year, the long-term economic position will have an effect on tenancies. I look forward to my noble friend saying something on that but, in the meantime, I support the necessity of these regulations.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

We have had two speakers scratch, so I hope it does not come as a surprise that the next speaker is the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle.

Serious Criminal Cases Backlog

Lord Duncan of Springbank Excerpts

Tuesday 26th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wolfson of Tredegar (Con)]

My Lords, trial by jury is a cornerstone of the criminal justice system in this jurisdiction. With the support of Public Health England and Public Health Wales, we have made adjustments to more than 290 court rooms and jury deliberation rooms so as to facilitate trial by jury. Reducing the size of the jury is therefore unlikely to free up an additional amount of space for jury trials, and it would also require primary legislation. As to the other point that the noble Lord makes about trial by judge alone, that would, I think, require a significant change in our criminal justice system, and therefore very careful consideration would be required before embarking on that change.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)]

My Lords, unfortunately, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed. I will pause a moment or two for those who wish to escape the Chamber and those who wish to come in.