Brexit: Civil Service Code

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 17th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, the last part of my noble friend’s question is again outwith the Question, but it is an important issue and one that the Government and Parliament turn their attention to from time to time. I am sure that people will note his remarks. As for the reports of a new communication, obviously I made inquiries, as was my duty, having seen the Question. We have not been able to locate this particular communication but if, as has been reported, it is a restatement of the long-standing position which is expressed in the Civil Service Code—that if civil servants ever believe they are being required to act in a way that conflicts with the code, they should raise it with their line manager, et cetera—I have already told the House that that is the position and it is unchanged. I do not know whether this alleged communication was saying that. If it was, in a sense I have already offered to put that before the House, but I will take it away.

It is extremely important that we do not let the idea be taken that there is conflict and distaste between Ministers and civil servants. That is not the case; it is partnership. Sometimes, things break out. I was reading Servants of the People the other day, in which Ministers are quoted as saying, “Civil servants are useless” and, “We expected to find Rolls-Royce service; we found a Reliant Robin”. People say things and there are moments of crisis in relationships, but my experience is that there is an outstanding relationship between the ministerial side and the Civil Service side under every Government, whatever one hears reported in the press.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, it seems to many of us that there is a less healthy relationship between certain special advisers and Ministers, and that there is a real difference between the code of propriety observed through the centuries by civil servants and the code observed by these more recent arrivals. Will my noble friend arrange for every special adviser and every Minister of the Crown to be sent a copy of the admirable article by our noble friend Lord Hague which appeared in the Daily Telegraph earlier this week?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I am not personally responsible for the reading habits of every member of the Civil Service, the special adviser corps or the Government. I am sure people have noted what was said. Special advisers are subject to a code. I think that in public life we should all treat each other with grace and understanding, and every now and again there has to be a bit of give and take, of leave and understanding. The fundamental core of Civil Service impartiality remains. The Civil Service’s role as defined in law and practice is something that I and this Government profoundly respect and I am sure it will continue under whoever has the honour of acting as part of the Government in the future.

Parliamentary Constituencies Bill

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 8th September 2020 Grand Committee

The Tories—sorry, the Conservative Government—now seem to see the Commons’ main, if not sole, function as being an electoral college to elect the Prime Minister. After that MPs can sit back, pick up a directorship or consultancy here or there and go about other business, and Mr Cummings, with the help of Mr Johnson—let us get it the right way round—will continue to run the country. Well, that is not my understanding of what Members of Parliament should be. When my noble friend Lord Cormack—I call him my noble friend—was a Member of Parliament, I remember that he was a very active constituency Member. The number of times I heard about Lincoln—was it Lincoln?

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

It was Staffordshire then.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Where was the cathedral, then?

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

That is in Lincoln.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Yes, we kept hearing about the cathedral. But I also kept hearing about his constituency. He was a very active constituency Member of Parliament.

Representing a community is important. I have later amendments that will come round to this on community ties being more important than arithmetic. I have seen one side of a street being in one constituency and the other in another just to satisfy the arithmetists. There have been all sorts of crazy boundaries just to get these numbers right.

My job as an MP, as those here who are ex-MPs will know, was to represent the people. We were not just lobby fodder for our parties. I used to go to meetings with pensioners and all sorts of other groups. I went to schools, received petitions and held surgeries in 25 places around Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley. You build up a rapport with your constituents. Because of that rapport, sometimes, when there is a major issue, you consider whether it is important to put your constituents before the party. I have done it, and I know others have. We are able to do that. That rapport needs to be built up over a number of years. That is why I think five years is ridiculous—eight years is equally unsatisfactory—and why I am moving an amendment to 10 years. Of course populations change in different constituencies, but there are swings and roundabouts. Some parties will lose on the swings and gain on the roundabouts, and vice versa. To change so speedily just to get the arithmetic right seems wrong.

I was elected in 1979 and I went straight into a boundary review. It was changed in 1983 and I got added to it. It made my seat safer, by the way. It was not too bad, but it was a difficult period going through that. However, the Boundary Commission changed the name from South Ayrshire to Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley. I suggested that it would be easier for the people I represented to keep the same name, but the commission would not accept that. It was crazy that it would not. I do not know how that helps my argument, but it is an interesting anecdote. Mind you, I came to like Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley as a name. It is very evocative.

We make special cases in the Bill for Orkney, rightly, for Shetland and the Western Isles, and now for the Isle of Wight, because they are islands. I can see that argument but it means we have some very small constituencies, so I do not know where the Minister’s point about equal weight comes in as far as those are concerned. If the Government are to take account of the fact that they are islands, why can they not take account of sparsity? There are a few Members here who used to represent parts of Scotland. There are huge constituencies in the Highlands and Islands, which used to be represented by people such as Charlie Kennedy. He did brilliantly as a Member but it was a huge job to get around the whole of his constituency. There is not enough account taken of these community differences. Very often, where it is so obvious that a river, a major road or a mountain range should be the boundary, the Boundary Commission takes no account of it because it wants to get the arithmetic right.

I will argue that case on a later amendment. However, the reason for having 10 years rather than eight is to give some stability for the Member of Parliament to get to know her or his constituency—to become acquainted with it and have the support of their constituents—and to be able to come to the House of Commons as a representative, not a party hack. That is a very important thing. It would give them much more power individually. I hope that other Members of the Committee will consider it and that, at a later stage if not today, we will perhaps have a vote on it. Meanwhile, I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Cormack]

6: Clause 2, page 2, line 20, leave out “As soon as reasonably practicable” and insert “No later than six weeks”

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to be surrounded by so many colleagues this afternoon, but this is not Parliament or the Grand Committee as I know, love and understand it. The sooner that we can get back to a normal parliamentary system, the better.

I pay tribute to the ingenuity of those who have created this extraordinary series of booths—a cross between a call centre in Calcutta and a language laboratory somewhere else. We have what we have, but we should not be here at all; we should be in the Chamber, as others have said in speaking to previous amendments. Nothing is more constitutional than the constitution of the elected House of Commons. It is a pity that we have had to depart from what is a tradition in your Lordships’ House and to move a constitutional Bill into this extraordinary room. But, as I say, it is very good to see so many colleagues here. Let us hope that there will be more and more as the weeks go by.

My amendment is here slightly by accident. I took part in the debate on Second Reading and made it quite plain that I am one of those who do not like to see Parliament excluded from ultimate decision-making—a subject that was touched on in the first group of amendments. During the debate, my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham, who is sitting by me here on the other side of the glass, raised the important point of curbing the power of the Executive. He realised that the Executive could hold things up for an inordinate period if they so chose.

I was taken by that point and put down my amendment. There was no consultation between us because, at the time, my noble friend Lord Young was speaking virtually and I was in the Chamber, so we both put down amendments. I will not make a long speech, because I recognise that he was the trailblazer and I want him to have plenty of time—although he has promised me that he will not detain your Lordships for more than an hour and a half.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, I have received no requests to speak after the Minister, so I call the noble Lord, Lord Cormack.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, first, I thank all those who took part in this interesting debate. Rarely do I hear a debate that has as its hallmark such unanimity on the essential issue. There was a little disagreement on the exact time—that is, whether it should be my noble friend Lord Young’s three months or my six weeks. I have slightly firmed up on six weeks, but I have not made my mind up; it would be stupid so to do because although I could not see the Minister’s body language, I heard his language. I thank him very much for what he said. I know that, in saying that, I speak for my noble friend Lord Young, to whom I am very grateful. He told me that he had done a bit a work on this subject and that he must have the opportunity to reveal it to colleagues. He did so brilliantly; I am grateful to him.

Further discussions should be held. We must seek to persuade the Government—the Minister is clearly persuadable—that thou need not block and thou should not stop. We need to make sure that the Government are properly constrained by a workable timetable that Parliament has devised.

With those words, I am delighted to withdraw the amendment. I hope that I do not have to return to this matter on Report. I hope that there will be on Report a government amendment to the Bill that meets what we have asked for today.

Amendment 6 withdrawn.

Parliamentary Constituencies Bill

Lord Cormack Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 27th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I speak as one who believes passionately in both Houses: this House for its capacity to scrutinise legislation and because it can never be a challenge to the supreme authority of the elected House. It is against that background that I will make a few remarks.

The sinister words in this Bill—which, in many ways, I welcome—were pointed out by my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham. They appear in Clause 2:

“As soon as reasonably practicable”.


The danger in this Bill is that it gives too much power to the Executive. I am a great believer in the theme of Dunning’s Motion, moved in 1780, when he said that

“the influence of the crown has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished.”

Today, the power of the Executive has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished. That is why I favour the ultimate word being taken in the other place by the elected Members of Parliament.

I shall support, with amendments, those who talked about the 5% being too rigid. I was particularly persuaded by the arguments of colleagues from Wales, but the same applies to Scotland and to certain parts of England. Communities must not be broken up by artificial boundaries imposed from elsewhere. Constituencies must not be so impractical to negotiate that it is almost impossible adequately to represent them in the other place. We have to look at this very carefully. I shall certainly support amendments that seek to deal with the 5%.

I particularly feel, as a tremendous supporter of the union, that we must not do anything in these very difficult, parlous times, to jeopardise the union. Of course it is right that England inevitably has the largest number of Members of Parliament, but there ought to be, in a sense, disproportion in favour of Scotland and Wales and, to a degree, Northern Ireland, even though they have regional Parliaments and assemblies. This Bill will need a lot of scrutiny in your Lordships’ House. We must, of course, give it a safe passage, but I hope it will be a safe passage which improves it.

Parliament: Restoration and Renewal Project

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd July 2020 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Cormack]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the letter from the Prime Minister to the Chief Executive of the Sponsor Body and Chief Executive Designate for the Delivery Authority for the Houses of Parliament Restoration and Renewal Project on 15 July, what their proposals are for the relocation of both Houses of Parliament during the restoration of the Palace of Westminster.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord True) (Con)]

My Lords, as I said in my Answer on this last Monday, the location of Parliament is a matter for Parliament. Both Houses will need to review their sitting arrangements as part of restoration and renewal. The Government are keen to ensure that the restoration and renewal of the Palace of Westminster delivers best value for money and asked the sponsor body to advise Parliament on a range of options and consider decant locations outside London in its strategic review. The Government are not prejudging any particular outcome.

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, do the Government remain firmly committed to ensuring that after restoration and renewal is complete, both Houses will continue to sit in the Palace of Westminster as their permanent home? Bearing in mind that only one bicameral legislature in the world, that of the Ivory Coast—we owe that information to the Lord Speaker—has Chambers in different geographical locations, does the Minister accept that it makes no constitutional or economic sense to remove either or both Chambers to any other city within the UK for just a few years?

[Lord True]

My Lords, in the original debates on this subject, my noble friend rightly pointed to the heritage nature of this great Palace of Westminster, which I think we all hold dear. Indeed, heritage is one of the aspects referred to in the Prime Minister’s letter. So far as how the Houses will operate when decant—if decant—takes place, that is a matter for them. I would simply say that the broad and generous acres of Yorkshire are not in another continent.

Finance Bill

Lord Cormack Excerpts

2nd reading & Committee negatived & 3rd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 17th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con) [V]]

My Lords, faced with the greatest depression since the reign of Queen Anne, the Chancellor has displayed imagination and ingenuity. But his task will not be made easier when we come to 31 December and his Government’s insistence on the transition period being over by then, whatever happens. I worry about many aspects of the present situation, as do many colleagues. What will happen as furlough comes to an end? I welcome some of the measures announced last week—those on VAT in particular—but will the £1,000 bonus really help? Is the half-price meal voucher not a bit of a gimmick? We should be concentrating money on the self-employed, who include so many of the most talented and innovative people in our country.

My noble friend Lord Lamont, in a splendid speech, talked about the welcome package for arts and heritage, in which I take a particular interest. But there is a danger that it will be mothballed, in his words. We need some specific things to be done in that field. I warmly commend to the Chancellor a zero rating on all restoration and repair work on historic buildings. New build is zero-rated, and it would be a tremendous boost for craftsmanship. We will lose many of our craftsman in the next couple of years—and some much sooner than that—if we do not take a bold step here. I urge this on the Chancellor. I hope the Minister will refer to this in his wind-up and that tell the Chancellor himself that this would give an enormous boost to the heritage sector.

I completely agree with my noble friend Lord Blencathra in what he said about digital services. He juxtaposed Amazon and the high street, and made some telling points. I also agree noble Lords who said it was a pity that we were having to debate this subject in this manner. Parliament must lead by example. I was in the Chamber last week and, God willing, will be there next week, but I hope all noble Lords will be back in the autumn, because it is essential that the Government are held properly to account. This one-dimensional Parliament, with no opportunity for intervening or spontaneity, is not the sort of Parliament the country needs in the greatest crisis we have faced for three centuries.

Covid-19: Infection Rate

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 6th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True]

My Lords, current guidelines certainly include the requirement to give contact details. I note the noble Baroness’s point, but I repeat that the role of local authorities is fundamental. We have given them a great deal more money, which was recently announced to be £500 million, I believe.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that security is being jeopardised by those who totally flout the rule about social distancing? Does he not think that the time has come when those who congregate in great numbers, very often imbibing large amounts, are given real deterrent fines? That way we might achieve common sense throughout.

[Lord True]

My Lords, I very much welcome seeing my noble friend here today. People should behave responsibly. The Government have been very clear that some of these large gatherings were undesirable and unacceptable. I repeat the point I made about social distancing, but I also say that over the weekend, when there were many dire predictions, the overwhelming majority of people in this country behaved with the common sense, dignity and decency I always expect from my fellow countrymen and women.

Northern Ireland Protocol

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 21st May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True]

My Lords, I regret to say that some of the noble Lord’s question rather broke up on my computer. However, I think I heard him say at one point that there will be checks on both sides. It is clearly the Government’s intention that there will not be checks—that there will be unfettered access from Northern Ireland to the United Kingdom. I appreciated what the noble Lord said about the nature of the White Paper, even if he does not agree with all the details and questions a few points. I believe it is a very constructive attempt to lay the groundwork for what he rightly says will be, I hope, sensible and constructive discussions on implementation. However, I repeat that the purpose of all of us in this is to maintain the integrity of the Good Friday agreement, and that in doing so it is in the interests of both sides, as has frequently been said, that the arrangements put in place should impact as little as possible on the everyday lives of the people of Northern Ireland. That is our objective, and I hope it is that of our partners in negotiation.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, do not the protocol, the Statement and everything that my noble friend has said this afternoon underline the crucial importance of concluding an amicable agreement with our European friends and neighbours? That being the case, why do the Government, in the midst of a grave international crisis, when everybody’s mind is really on something else, continue to be so obdurate in insisting on the 31 December deadline? It would be no backtracking but a gesture of statesmanship to indicate that it is not sacrosanct.

[Lord True]

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend’s comments and his recognising that this Administration wish to reach an amicable agreement with our European friends; it is our hope, desire and expectation that we will still do that. I cannot go along at all with my noble friend in asking for an extension of the transition period. I have answered that before in this House and I do not believe it would help business in any way. It would provide further uncertainty and lead to an extension of negotiations. Remaining within the orbit of the European Union after the end of this year would have great and uncertain consequences regarding the contributions and actions the United Kingdom might be involved with. But above all, the British people have asked for this matter to be concluded—twice—and we will conclude it.

Beyond Brexit (European Union Committee Report)

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 12th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I begin by paying tribute to my noble friend Lord Boswell of Aynho. He gave an exemplary, statesmanlike speech today. Two minutes does not give anyone a proper chance to develop an argument. I wish to make a plea and a point.

The plea is to my noble friend Lord True, who will respond to this debate. I beg him not to be as dogmatic and dismissive as he was in what I believe was the last debate on this general subject in the Chamber on 16 March. In that debate, I suggested that Covid was transforming the political and economic landscape and that to insist on ending the transition period on 31 December was neither necessary nor wise. I believe that everything that has happened in the weeks since that debate has underlined the good sense of that attitude.

The point I wish to make is this: I urge colleagues in all parts of the House to be alert to the dangers we face and the fact that our negotiations with the EU are not at the top of the agenda, either here in the UK or in the EU. We in the United Kingdom have troubles enough at the moment without risking, let alone choosing, the no-deal conclusion to the transition period.

European Union: Negotiations (European Union Committee Report)

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 16th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I nearly did not put my name down to speak in this debate: I was under considerable domestic pressure not to come, and I understand why, although I just say to my noble friend who is going to reply—and even more importantly to my noble friend who is going to make a Statement shortly after—that while, in common with many of my age, I am happy to be advised and encouraged, I do not want to be dictated to. I draw the attention of noble Lords to an absolutely splendid article in today’s Daily Mail by the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett.

We are talking about our relations with Europe and I take as my text, as it were, the quotation the noble Baroness, Lady Falkner of Margravine, gave from John Maynard Keynes: “When the facts change, I change my mind.” Here, to a degree I join company with the noble Lord who has just spoken. The facts have changed in a way that no one could have foreseen on 12 December or even on 31 January. The world is changing around us. Those of us who know and love France are sad to realise that at the end of this year it is highly likely—indeed, almost certain—that a large number of those family-run restaurants that we have all enjoyed from time to time will have gone. The same will happen in Italy and Spain. In a changed world and a fundamentally changing Europe, we cannot stick to the text that we had on 13 December after the Government won a very handsome victory, in which, like my noble friend Lord Barwell, I was very glad to rejoice.

Before the election, the Prime Minister made it plain time and again that he wanted to have as close and constructive a relationship as possible with our European friends and neighbours once we had left the European Union. Of course, it cannot be the same but we have left, and I was one of those who from the very beginning accepted, with sadness, the result of the referendum. That is why I gave strong support to the deal that Prime Minister Theresa May drew up with the assistance of my noble friend Lord Barwell—I thought that it offered a way forward. However, all that is history.

We are out, but it is absolutely essential that we have a friendly and constructive relationship with nations with which we have shared a great deal of our history over the last 500 and more years. It is extremely sad that, where co-operation has worked, as in the European Medicines Agency, Europol and Euratom, it should just be discarded. I appeal to my noble friend on the Front Bench, Lord True, who was on the opposite side of the argument before Brexit, to recognise that we are now in a wholly different national and international situation.

We, and the Government in particular, owe the British people a great debt, and we have to satisfy that debt. The Prime Minister referred to the votes that he had been given on trust in what used to be known as the red wall. We owe a debt to those people who looked to our Government, having felt, for reasons that I completely understand—I always lamented the decline of a powerful Opposition—that they could not trust a Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn. Our debt is manifest and manifold, and it is to ensure that they do not suffer any more than is absolutely necessary with this dreadful pestilence raging around us. Therefore, I say to my noble friend Lord True: please, there is nothing sacrosanct about the date 31 December. There is nothing sacrosanct about bringing negotiations to a head in the summer, because we and all our European friends and neighbours will doubtless still be grappling with this pestilence right through this year. What was perhaps difficult but entirely practical on 31 January is now probably insuperably difficult and not very practical. Of course, if the Government can negotiate a deal that is fair on both sides, we would all rejoice, but I beg them to realise that it is no more realistic to stick to the 31 December deadline than it would have been to have stuck to any absolute deadline in 1939.

I was born just shortly before the Second World War. My memories of it are those of an infant, but this country has not faced any crisis as potentially difficult and dire as this one since that war. It is crucial that we recognise this and, above all, it is crucial that the Government who have responsibility for this country and the Prime Minister who leads this country recognise that fully and properly. If they do not, they will be letting down those who created that majority on 12 December. The Government have a tremendous challenge, but also a tremendous opportunity to provide national leadership. I very much hope that after 3 April, we will have a coherent, strong and able Opposition to challenge the Government wherever necessary and to co-operate with them if they provide the leadership that we so desperately need. The greatest achievement—apart from dealing with the pestilence—would be a constructive and mutually beneficial relationship with the nations of the European Union, of which we are certainly now not one. I beg my noble friend to reflect on those things when he comes to reply.

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[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord True) (Con)]

My Lords, I rise to respond to what has been a typically incisive and insightful debate. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, that there is no reason to be concerned that she was not present during the whole debate, because the Liberal Democrat Front Bench was covered all through the debate. I do not take offence, and I am sure that the House did not.

I should declare an interest as a part-time resident in Italy—someone currently not permitted to return home to cut the grass. I am acutely conscious of the state of affairs occurring across Europe at the moment. I would also like to make another personal comment about how sad I was to read of the death of Lord Wright of Richmond. We are here in a debate on international affairs, and he was an outstanding servant of his country who always enlightened this House when he spoke. He was a very good citizen of Richmond as well. All our hearts go out to his family.

The debate started off in a not very pleasant tone, and rather a political one. I will address that point in a moment. It then evolved into an extremely measured debate. Perhaps I should take this point at the start: at the end of the debate, a number of speakers who were perhaps able to look on their iPhones—as I have not been able to during the debate, as I have been trying to listen to it—suddenly came up with this new line that the Government should not proceed any more with the pursuit of negotiations with the European Union because of the coronavirus crisis. The plea was put by the noble Lords, Lord Lea of Crondall and Lord Liddle, my noble friends Lord Cormack and Lady Wheatcroft, and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith—the last five speakers. Your Lordships will very shortly hear a Statement on coronavirus so I will not go there but, without diminishing the gravity of that matter at all, I say that, in the blast of the Second World War—using the resources of William Beveridge, who would have been on the Benches on that side of the House—the Government thought about designing and redesigning the welfare state for the future and made arrangements that lasted for two lifetimes.

[Lord Cormack]

I do not think that any of us who talked about coronavirus said that the negotiations should be abandoned. We said that the deadline should be abandoned.

[Lord True]

All right—I shall accept the timetable. However, I maintain the point. In the middle of the Second World War, when Winston Churchill sent for Rab Butler—who my noble friend will remember very well—to look into the future of education in this country, he did not suddenly, when some news came in, say, “Rab, you must drop this.” The Government went on and, in the 1944 Education Act, laid the foundations to the education system in this country despite the enormous crisis of the Second World War. Everything is possible and nothing is impossible in life, but I do not think—

EU: Future Relationship

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 27th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True]

My Lords, the political declaration set out our commitment to discuss open and fair competition as part of negotiations on our future relationship. We are committed to doing so.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

I too welcome my noble friend to his post and wish him every success. Does he accept that the hallmark of successful negotiations has to be mutual respect? Can he assure the House that we are not aiming for splendid isolation, but rather mutual prosperity? Does he also remember that the last negotiations, of unhappy memory, were bedevilled by the proclaiming of red lines far too early in the process?

[Lord True]

My Lords, I thought I had said in the Statement and afterwards that they will be approached in terms of mutual respect. But mutual respect and friendship—as I think my noble friend will understand from our happy relations in this House—does not always mean absolute identity on everything.