Registration of Marriage Bill [HL]

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 29th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, I should inform the Committee that, if this amendment is agreed to, I am unable to call Amendment 2 by reason of pre-emption.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the right reverend Prelate on being so specific and particular. In fact, he has been exemplary in the way he has sought to limit delegated powers. He has given a lesson to us all, on which he should be most warmly congratulated.

[Baroness Hamwee (LD)]

My Lords, I am afraid I was unable to speak at Second Reading. My noble friend Lady Scott of Needham Market is unable to be here. She takes a keen interest in matters genealogical and in registration. I am glad to have had the opportunity of the prompt to look at this. I congratulate the right reverend Prelate, as others have done.

The point I will raise is not to carp, but because I do not want to find that there has been a problem later on. I evidence that by saying that, when I came into this House I was asked, as we all are, by various directories to provide biographical details and I was asked for my father’s details, I said, “You can publish my father’s details if you publish my mother’s as well. It’s both or neither”.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans for his continued support in bringing forward changes to the way in which marriages are registered. Under present legislation, the marriage register entry provides space for the name of the father of each of the couple to be recorded but not that of the mother, and that has been the case since 1837.

This situation is outdated and it is widely accepted that changes are required to address this inequality. There has been growing pressure both from within Parliament and from the public for reform. For example, an online petition attracted in excess of 70,000 signatures. However, it should be noted that when deciding how the marriage entry should be updated we will need to ensure that we allow for all the different family circumstances in society today—for example, same-sex parents.

The most efficient and economical way to introduce these changes is to reform the way in which marriages are registered in England and Wales by moving to a “schedule”- based system similar to that in place for marriages and civil partnerships in Scotland and Northern Ireland and for civil partnerships in England and Wales.

The basis of a schedule system is that the couple sign a marriage schedule instead of the marriage register book. Couples will still be able to have that all-important traditional photo taken after the ceremony with their witnesses, but instead of signing the marriage register they will sign the marriage schedule with their witnesses. The schedule will contain all the information to be entered into the electronic marriage register maintained by the Registrar-General.

Those marrying in the Church of England or Church in Wales will still be able to marry by ecclesiastical preliminaries—for example, the publishing of banns or the issue of a common licence. Where ecclesiastical preliminaries are used, the member of the clergy will issue a “marriage document” similar to the schedule issued by the superintendent registrar, which will be returned to—

[Lord Cormack]

Why cannot we use the traditional word, “register”? Why do we have to go in for “schedule”?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I think that it is because we are dealing here with the legality rather than the tradition. I understand my noble friend’s point, but I would hope that such a small but important matter did not derail this important Bill. I am not for a moment suggesting that that is my noble friend’s intention; I understand his point.

Moving from a paper-based system to registration in an electronic register will facilitate the updating of the marriage entry to include both parents of each of the couple without having to replace all register books and it would introduce savings of £33.8 million over 10 years. The changes which the right reverend Prelate seeks are not controversial and have received a lot of cross-party support, hence the support in the Chamber today.

As the Bill contains delegated powers. I advised at Second Reading that the Home Office would produce and publish illustrative regulations prior to Committee to demonstrate to noble Lords how the powers in Clause 1 would be used. I can confirm that the draft regulations were made available in the Library of the House on 17 April.

I must emphasise that the regulations are an early draft and further drafting is required. We would welcome any comments from noble Lords on the content. It is our aim to be transparent during the process of amending the Marriage Act 1949 as we move towards the introduction of the schedule system.

We will continue to work with all key stakeholders, including the Church of England, in developing the policy. I will make further drafts of the regulations available in the Library in due course. I assure noble Lords that the changes to the Marriage Act will be made using the affirmative resolution procedure, ensuring they are debated in both Houses of Parliament and providing parliamentary oversight.

My noble friend Lord Blencathra expressed concern at Second Reading about the use of delegated powers in the Bill. To address those concerns, I can confirm that Home Office officials have been working with the right reverend Prelate to make technical amendments to Clauses 1 and 2 to limit the use of delegated powers to introduce these changes and to provide noble Lords with some reassurance as to how the powers are intended to be used.

The scope of the enabling language in Clause 1 will be narrowed to reflect the policy intent of the Bill to replace the current paper-based system with an electronic schedule-based system. Amendments required to primary legislation will be limited to the Marriage Act 1949. The broad power in Clause 1(2), which gives the Secretary of State the power to amend, repeal or revoke provisions in other Acts of Parliament, will be removed. As the right reverend Prelate has already explained, it is also proposed to include a sunset clause in the Bill limiting the power for the Secretary of State to make regulations which amend primary legislation to a period of three years beginning on the day on which the regulations are first made.

Concern has been raised that the powers in Clause 2 may delegate matters currently provided for in primary legislation. Amendments to Clause 2 will limit the scope to making regulations under Section 74(1) of the Marriage Act. I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, and the House that these regulations are intended only to supplement the current provisions in the Act.

I know that noble Lords recognise the importance of taking these changes forward to modernise the process of registering marriages, and I hope that the amendments made to the Bill will provide some reassurance to them of the value we place on parliamentary scrutiny throughout the legislative process.

I want finally to answer a question posed by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser. When the Bill was drafted, the policy was not so advanced and the powers in the Bill provided flexibility. We have been working closely with Home Office officials to develop policy further, which has allowed us to make these changes.

Windrush Generation

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 24th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I join the noble Lord in saying that this is a bad period—for successive Governments, actually—but that is not a reason to try to shirk our responsibilities as a Government. In terms of Mr Howard, the task force is aware of his case and we have contacted him previously, and we will be doing so again as part of this exercise. We are taking a proactive stance on cases we know exist.

The noble Lord also asked whether we should be revisiting some of our policy, for example in connection with the hostile environment. This is not a new thing. Successive Labour and Conservative Home Secretaries over the past 30 years have sought to make the UK a hostile environment for people who should not be here. Let us not forget the consequences of people who should not be here. They actually cause some of the worst detriment to people, for example through modern slavery and serious and organised crime. We do not want those people in this country. We do want this country to be a friendly environment for people who are here legally, so we will not back down—as successive Governments have not done—on tackling the pernicious practice of illegal migration to this country.

On independent oversight of what we are doing, the Home Secretary has announced that an independent person will be put in charge of the compensation scheme. I am sure that there will be plenty of time and room for debate in this House, as has already taken place, to scrutinise the effects of some of the measures that the Home Secretary outlined yesterday.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am sorry that I am the only one on this side of the House, but I echo the expressions of shame that have already been made on both sides of the Chamber. This is a very sad day, but my noble friend the Minister was right to say that the blame is in fact cumulative and that all of us who have voted on any immigration measures have inadvertently perhaps played a part. I would like to suggest this to my noble friend: I do not like the expression “those people”; we are dealing with fellow British subjects and citizens who have the same rights as anyone in this Chamber, and that must be underlined. I would like my noble friend to discuss with the Home Secretary that a High Court judge be asked to look at all the various Acts and measures to which she referred in the Statement to see where misinterpretation could have arisen and what we can do about it. It may well be sensible for a new Bill to be presented to your Lordships’ House and another place, clarifying and rectifying the measures which have led—however inadvertently—to our treating our people so despicably.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I thank my noble friend for being the one person behind me, and I of course echo his points: this is a shameful episode in our history. The rights of these people are the rights of British citizens. However, I do not think it was the misinterpretation of legislation but rather its unintended consequence that did not—I do not want to say “confer”—confirm the rights of these people. They are not illegal migrants and that is why my right honourable friend the Home Secretary is going to right this wrong as soon as we can. He talks about other people perhaps being victims of a similar thing. That is why the measures we have in place for EU citizens are so important, so that this type of unintended consequence does not happen in the future.

Police: Independent Inquiries

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 19th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The Government are not debarred from setting up an inquiry, and there are mechanisms to do so under the Inquiries Act. But as I said to my noble friend, an inquiry of any form should be considered only when other available investigatory mechanisms would not be sufficient. As I explained to him, there are other available mechanisms.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, as my noble friend has just admitted, there is nothing to prevent the Government acting. As the Home Office could do with some good publicity at the moment, could we not have a High Court judge or retired judge appointed to look into the implications of the Edward Heath case, the Brittan case and the Bishop Bell case, because there is profound public unease about all these things?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

As I stated, the PCC is completely within his powers to initiate such an inquiry.

Brexit: Border Control

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 29th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

The noble Lord will probably know that in the Spring Statement the Chancellor announced that the Home Office would receive £395 million. Much of this will be spent on the border. The recruitment of additional staff, to which he referred, is under way to bring existing staffing levels in UKVI working on Euro routes to 1,500 by April 2018. As I said, the Chancellor announced that the Home Office would receive £395 million of that funding to fund the EU exit preparations.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

Does my noble friend think that a Minister will ever be able to stand at this Box, or at the Box in another place, and say, “We counted them all in and we counted them all out”?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

That would be ideal, my Lords.

Immigration: International Students

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the message that is going out appears to be from your Lordships’ House and is not being heard internationally. Much has been made of applications from India. Last year, the numbers granted increased by 28%. I dispute that students are not feeling welcome in this country. They are applying in their droves.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend will acknowledge that this House has repeatedly discussed this issue in great detail and with near unanimity. What is the real obstacle to separating the students from those who are coming indefinitely? Doing so would be sensible; it would encourage our universities; and it would give a message that the doors really are open for students throughout the world.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I think I have explained that, given the increases in visa applications and grants that have happened in the last 12 months—in fact, since 2010—students are not deterred from coming to this country to gain a world-class education. I think I have explained, too, that if students were not counted, we may not be able to plan accordingly for some of the vital services that people who live here use.

Russia: Threats to Individuals in the UK

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 8th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

Again, we need to establish the facts of this case. The police have not reached any conclusions; there is an ongoing investigation and clearly any actions against this country by other states will be dealt with in the strongest possible terms.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend referred to the death of two people. Was that a slip of the tongue or have these unfortunate individuals now died?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

As far as I know, the individuals have not died. The policeman in question is showing evidence of slight improvement this morning.

Police and Crime Commissioners

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 1st March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, there certainly are PCCs who stand under party-political banners. There are also independent PCCs. I do not think that there are any Lib Dem PCCs, although the Lib Dems are very good at political campaigning. It is for PCCs to hold their chief constables to account. It is also for police and crime panels to scrutinise PCCs, and they do.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

We will hear from the noble Lord on the Conservative Benches. If he is quick, we will have time and will go over to the Greens.

[Lord Cormack]

My Lords, those of us who had concerns about the appointment of these commissioners are doubly concerned now because of the behaviour of the Wiltshire commissioner—and that of the Cleveland commissioner, who has sanctioned the appointment of the police chief who acted so deplorably and so manifestly unfairly. Can we not have a review of the whole system?

Nurseries and Schools: Protection from Terrorism

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Thursday 8th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

It has been—the noble Lord is right to point that out. DfE is working with the National Counter Terrorism Security Office and has had expert advice from the counterterrorism policing unit. As I said earlier, it is reviewing its guidance on preparedness, security measures and vulnerability to attack.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, might it not be better if the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, concentrated on Brexit and left this delicate issue alone?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, I think we concentrate a lot on Brexit these days in your Lordships’ House. The Question is important. Given the threats of the past year, it is important that we are all safe whether in our schools, our homes or our communities.

Crime: Scooter and Moped Gangs

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, as I said yesterday, police forces across the country have requested increases in funding and, as I outlined yesterday, that is what they have got, with the potential offered by some of the technologies available to them to release 11,000 police officers to do whatever jobs individual forces feel are appropriate. On the noble Lord’s point about scrambler bikes and in the context of the first part of my answer, I know that this is a particular problem in London and if police forces feel that that is the investment they should make then they should be free to do so.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is it not terribly disturbing that the police have let it be known that quite a number of crimes are not investigated? Can we have an assurance that this crime always will be and that information will no longer be dripped out to us that burglaries and other crimes can be conducted with impunity because the police will not pursue the criminals?

Deceased Individuals: Allegations

Lord Cormack Excerpts

Monday 22nd January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, what we can certainly do is learn from some of the situations that have arisen in this country. I could not comment at this point on examples from around the world.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I urge my noble friend to think again on this. It is a deeply shocking case. The reputation of a great man has been traduced, and many of us who are Anglicans are deeply ashamed of the way that the Anglican Church has behaved. This can surely be a spur to the Government to review the law to try to protect the anonymity of people who are accused of something years—decades—after their death with one uncorroborated alleged witness. Please will she take this on board and talk to the Secretary of State about it?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, as I said earlier, there is a presumption of anonymity. The report was a report to the Church of England, and it would not be appropriate for me to comment on it.